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Official Football Thread 2006/2007 (Soccer)

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I can't say he's the best manager on Earth but Wenger is certainly one of the best managers out there. I have a lot of respect for him.
 
strictly speaking of course there is no such thing as the "best manager in the world". It's like the best footballer in the world" and the "best guitarist in the world".

But if Wenger is not regarded as one of the very top managers I don't know who could be.
 
f*cking hell, so arsenal has to keep DSV at 0 AND WIN WITH 2 GOALS to go through????
CL rules are so forked!!!
bah!!!
sad for barca fans though...good win for liverpool.
can i get an update on the other games today?
 
Falch said:
Best manager on earth, surely you're joking, right?
Click to expand...

Name all the current managers who've assembled a team this young, on a budget this low, that's in the top four of one of the top three leagues in the world and still in every cup competition.

Then name the manager who's team plays a style as open and freeflowing.

Then name the manager who's doing both.

That's not even getting into the trophies he's won in his tenure, including two doubles. Or doing this while building a brand new, state of the art stadium. Or acheived his successes with three different teams.

I'll put it another way...I can't think of another manager I'd take in place of Wenger. And the day I dread the most as an Arsenal fan is the day when he eventually leaves the post.

Lakitu said:
Best manager on earth is a very big claim, what about retail stores such as EB Games, they might have good managers.
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:lol
 
nitewulf said:
f*cking hell, so arsenal has to keep DSV at 0 AND WIN WITH 2 GOALS to go through????
CL rules are so forked!!!
Click to expand...
That's what happens when you lose.

And as I understand it, they don't have to keep PSV out of the goal, they just have to win by 2 to win on aggregate, if they only win by 1 it goes to away goals.

nitewulf said:
can i get an update on the other games today?
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Tottenham won.
 
I have been waiting for this day for a very long time, but it finally seems like a potential spurs fan has entered the thread.

We need more of them, it will be fun.
 
hadareud said:
I have been waiting for this day for a very long time, but it finally seems like a potential spurs fan has entered the thread.

We need more of them, it will be fun.
Click to expand...
Potential is the right word, I picked Spurs just because I played the best with them in FIFA '06. Although listing to the game online today definitely increased that potential.
 
Wenger is a great manager. 2nd best manager in the world. :D

Of course you may always choose your 49 games over our period of glory, or your brand of french inspired football over our frenchman led revolution - but I without doubt prefer Man Utd's brand of attacking football.

Fergie didnt just build a great team, he spearheaded Man Utd from being one of the most supported clubs to being one of the best and financially succesful clubs.

While Wenger helped lead Arsenal into a new home, Fergie helped rebuild our current home into arguably the best stadium in Europe. The difference from when he joined to now is remarkable.

But I'm glad they are both in the EPL as the league would be less fu nwithout them. Leagues like Spain and Italy are too cold and impersonal, see how Cappello is treated like shit.
 
We just seem incapable of producing managerial talent. Terry Venables and Bobby Robson are the only ones who could even begin to claim they were the best managers around at one point, and I don't really think the former could go that far. He was just good, which in itself is impressive what with him being English.

Meanwhile, Scotland are producing talent like Ferguson, Strachan, Dalglish...it's kind of embarrassing. I'd prefer the good footballers over the good managers, sure, but I don't know why we can't produce that top man.

Keane seems to have done well at Sunderland, so that's a poss...what's that? Irish?

Of course he is.
 
Wenger is a brilliant manager. With a budget much smaller than Manchester United, Liverpool, Chelsea and hell Newcastle most of the time he's managed to build premier league winning teams + not losing for a whole season.


But he hasn't won the European Cup. And until he does he'll never be considered one of the games greats. Sorry but thats the rules.
 
Interesting results today:

Puntarenas FC 1 - 0 Houston Dynamo

MLS continues its foreign losing streak...

CD Olimpia 1 - 4 DC United

Oh wait, whats this!?!?!

Nacional 3 - 1 Internacional

World champion loses to former powerhouse

Parana 2 - 0 Real Potosi
:)

Flamengo 3 - 1 Maracaibo
Expected

Cienciano 1 - 2 Toluca

Mexican teams continue to perform well in south america

Deportivo Pasto 0 - 1 Santos
I expected santos to do better...
 
Wenger is a brilliant manager. But for all his achievements -- and they are many, and they are great -- but it's hard to call him the best manager in the world when in fairness, he isn't even the best manager in England.

As a Liverpool fan I hate to say it (and I hate you guys for making me say it :-P) but Lord Ferg is the best manager in England and has been over the last 15 years. He crushes Wenger in sheer silverware terms.

Another indicator for me is that again, despite winning the Premiership three times, despite two doubles... Arsenal never won the league in consecutive seasons, which doesn't really indicate any dominance on their part, more a collection of teams that found the right spark in a few separate seasons.
 
I forgot to mention Wenger's ability to field successful teams on a relatively miniscule budget. Not to mention his eye for spotting young talent, and grooming them. He hasn't gotten them all right, but the purchases of players like Viera, Anelka, Henry, Pires, down to the new core of Fabregas, Toure and Eboue have been a testament of his business smarts as much as his development acumen.

Fergie's alright though I guess...sorta.


MrPing1000 said:
Wenger is a brilliant manager. With a budget much smaller than Manchester United, Liverpool, Chelsea and hell Newcastle most of the time he's managed to build premier league winning teams + not losing for a whole season.


But he hasn't won the European Cup. And until he does he'll never be considered one of the games greats. Sorry but thats the rules.
Click to expand...

Sigh...15 minutes away...sigh.

Anyway, he'll get that trophy sooner or later...and probably sooner.
 
Falch said:
Best manager on earth, surely you're joking, right?
Click to expand...
He's certainly one of the best managers in the world. The likes of lippi, ferguson and capello might have won more silverware than him, but its difficult not to admire Wenger because he's got some very special talents.

Wengers biggest strenght is finding young talent. There isnt anyone better at doing it. He bought anelka for less than £1 million and sold him for £22 million. Cesc was bought for a very low price and now he's considered one of the best midfielders in the world. You can name loads of player such as henry, viera, pires, toure etc. He's manage to put together one of the best team,s in europe with a very limited budget yet he's mkanage to compete with big european teams that have spent millions on individual players. Wenger can buy 4 oir 5 players with the same money that chelsea spend on one player.

He also put together a team that went through a whole season unbeaten and during that season arsenal played the best football me and many others have seen. The players knew each other so well and they knew exactly how the other players think. They played beautiful short passing football and against small opposition they could be 2 or 3 goals up at half time because their football was far too good for the opposition.

What everyone should like about wenger is that although he wants to win silverware, he makes sure that he can entertain the fans. Chelsea might get the results they need, but most of the time they just grind out results and do enough to win.
 
if you think that any given* Arsenal starting eleven cost Wenger less than Chelsea paid for Sevchenko it's quite amazing

*may not be entirely true
 
I thought you used the word manager as equivalent to best trainer/coach. He's probably the best in buying and managing young talents, I'll give you that. And ofcourse he's a great trainer/coach also, otherwise he wouldn't be as succesfull.

His weakness imo is his tactics, which showed against PSV. He knew beforehand how PSV would play, but still didn't really act on it, not even during the match. He didn't have a plan B. Same goes for the previous match against Blackburn. I've seen that before. The additional problem (partly due to using so many youngsters) the team itself has is not one player can really 'read' a match and make tactical adjustments during the match. Again, look at the role Cocu plays for PSV, he's not only Koeman's righthand on the pitch, he also shows his own initiative during the match, something I miss in Arsenal's team. It's like they keep trying to play the same kind of football no matter the way things are going, because they don't realise or know what to do else.
 
Arsene Wenger is a great manager, I always forget they were in the Champions League final, but come on Jim Gannon, Stockport County manager, 8 wins in a row and they haven't conceded a goal!!
 
The good old Plan B argument. We do not need one, on their day this team will beat anyone, no matter how defensive or how hard fighting the opposition is. I don't think a Plan B would have made a difference in that game. They had a poor day, and would have had no matter what the tactics would have been.

Btw, do you honestly think that Wenger was outsmarted by Koemans tactics? A bad game and a fluky goal do not mean that PSV's tactics were superior. You didn't have to be a genius to know what sort of tactics PSV were going to employ. Even without being an insider of the Dutch league you know that they play a very defensive style, even more so in the Champions League. They battled hard, closed Arsenal down, didn't leave Fabregas and the rest of the midfield any space or time. They were waiting for their chances and tried their luck from long range efforts.
This is how every bloody team plays against us, maybe not with the same quality as PSV did though.

You have to remember the average age of this team, the only thing missing is consistency - not a plan b. I am arguing this point for a long time already - mostly without success however.
 
hadareud said:
The good old Plan B argument. We do not need one, on their day this team will beat anyone, no matter how defensive or how hard fighting the opposition is. I don't think a Plan B would have made a difference in that game. They had a poor day, and would have had no matter what the tactics would have been.

Btw, do you honestly think that Wenger was outsmarted by Koemans tactics? A bad game and a fluky goal do not mean that PSV's tactics were superior. You didn't have to be a genius to know what sort of tactics PSV were going to employ. Even without being an insider of the Dutch league you know that they play a very defensive style, even more so in the Champions League. They battled hard, closed Arsenal down, didn't leave Fabregas and the rest of the midfield any space or time. They were waiting for their chances and tried their luck from long range efforts.
This is how every bloody team plays against us, maybe not with the same quality as PSV did though.

You have to remember the average age of this team, the only thing missing is consistency - not a plan b. I am arguing this point for a long time already - mostly without success however.
Click to expand...

Well I think we'll just have to agree to disagree then. ;)

The very problem you describe (not leaving Fabregas or the rest of the midfield any space or time) won't simple resolve itself by being more consistent.

Also, it's not just the midfield that was having trouble, it was also (perhaps even more so) Arsenal's central defenders. They didn't have anyone to mark, but instead of positioning themselves (well, one of them :p) into the midfield they both decided to stay putt, giving PSV exactly what they wanted: pressure on the left-and rightback, without having to worry that Arsenal might have a player unmarked on midfield (because obviously only the centrebacks were 'unmarked' and they didn't act on that).

I'm not sure if I'm making myself clear, but just look at Ajax in the mid-nineties. They had Rijkaard and Blind als CB's, but as soon as Ajax had posession of the ball, Blind would act as an extra midfielder, thereby automatically forcing the opponent to 'unmark' one other midfielder. Senderos and Touré never once did this, just as Cruijff and Koeman anticipated.

It's too easy to just blame every draw or lost game to lack of consistency. There's something off at Arsenal, tactically (which you didn't adress in your previous post). You can't always play the same type of football and expect to win every time. Basically, what you're saying is that every time Arsenal doesn't win, they just weren't playing to the best of their abilities. I think that's not only naive, but also disrespectful to the opponent.
 
Well there's a few good reasons for what happened on Tuesday - most importantly was our movement was missing. The most important part in Arsenals game, it's the only reason they can play like they do. It is vital that there is always more than one player available to receive a pass - and that's what was missing.
Now, did PSV have something to do with that? Of course they did. But it was mostly down to our own team. They just seemed heavy legged and out of it, and it got worse as the game progressed.

What you've spotted in our central defence is absolutely correct, but this is also partly down to injuries. Ideally you wouldn't want Senderos on the pitch in games like this, his technique is limited and so is his going forward. I feel this also limits what Toure can do, because there's a bit of uncertainty with Senderos. I do think comparing the situation with Rijkaard as CB for Ajax is a bit far fetched though - Rijkaard played in a 3 man defence as a "Libero" IIRC, you can't really compare that to Arsenals set up. Gilberto is the man that usually does the backing up of the rest of the midfield, with the back 2 then being able to push up as well.

What I mean by consistency is also not playing every single game on the highest level, that's simply impossible. But, as with all sports, experience is a very big factor in tight games and on days you are not performing to your best. Call it arrogance, self confidence or whatever - you need it to be successful and it only comes with time. Our team is doing remarkably well for the average age I think, but the consistency is just not quite there yet. It's down to their heads though
 
You're right hadareud, Ajax isn't the best example, I just used it to further explain my point. I think you'll be doing a lot better when Eboue is back, his offensive qualities are excellent. Will he be fit for the return against PSV? I certainly hope not. ;) Also, what's the deal with Henry, he's been playing with a slight injury for the last couple of week now, hasn't he? Will that effect the PSV match?

And Bud, you noticed? ;) Normally, I'm not a big fan of Cruijff (he keeps whining about PSV not having enough Dutch players), but he was spot on in his pre-match analysis. Also, the way that guy abuses the Dutch language is always a sight to behold, but I guess you'd have to understand Dutch to appreciate it.
 
jamesinclair said:
Interesting results today:

Puntarenas FC 1 - 0 Houston Dynamo

MLS continues its foreign losing streak...

CD Olimpia 1 - 4 DC United

Oh wait, whats this!?!?!
Click to expand...

An MLS side has never failed to beat a Honduran side. However, those Costa Rican teams give them trouble. Houston can definitely win the home leg though.
 
I think both Hoyte and Eboue should be back for the return game, so basically Wenger can chose between the two. That should mean that Gallas can finally start in the centre together with Toure again. Both Clichy and Eboue are excellent going forward, but Hoyte as well is coming along really nicely this year. I think it's difficult to chose between Eboue and Hoyte at the moment, but Eboue's pace and crossing should probably give him the nod.

I don't think Henry's injury will be to much of a problem, he won't be playing on Sunday and has some time to recover. At least I very much hope so.
 
Shinobi said:
Name all the current managers who've assembled a team this young, on a budget this low, that's in the top four of one of the top three leagues in the world and still in every cup competition.

Then name the manager who's team plays a style as open and freeflowing.

Then name the manager who's doing both.

That's not even getting into the trophies he's won in his tenure, including two doubles. Or doing this while building a brand new, state of the art stadium. Or acheived his successes with three different teams.

I'll put it another way...I can't think of another manager I'd take in place of Wenger. And the day I dread the most as an Arsenal fan is the day when he eventually leaves the post.

:lol
Click to expand...
Guus Hiddink, case closed!! I'd even venture as far and rate Louis van Gaal above Wenger. Who basically did the same you Wenger, but also brought home the European silver.

His spell now at AZ is basically all the things you summed up. New young team, not a lot of money available for big names, migrated to a new stadium this year and still in the running for all competitions. And unlike Arsenal, they got a good result on their away game... in Turkey, not the easiest of places to go to. (although they messed up a 3-1 lead and went home with a 3-3 draw)
 
Hiddink was supposed to be the next Chelsea manager, with Mourinho taking Capello's spot at Madrid, but now he's going to jail that's all screwed up.

They'll just have to go for Mancini or Capello himself, or maybe keep Mourinho another year until Hiddink can sit without wincing again.
 
Barcelona claim Liverpool were 'lucky':

Barcelona keeper Victor Valdes is convinced that "lucky" Liverpool don't have the quality to kill off the Spanish side's Champions League dream.
"They had good fortune for the first goal, and they had a lot of luck with their second goal, too, with a lucky rebound," he stated.
"They won in Barcelona, we can win at Anfield.
"We showed that last year when we played Chelsea and beat them at home.”
Meanwhile, Barcelona president Joan Laporta last night dismissed Liverpool's chances claiming: "We will still make the final. This defeat was an accident.
"I am absolutely convinced that our team will be in Athens for the final," he crowed.
"I am very confident. The two goals we conceded were a bit strange, as we were very much in control of the game."
Click to expand...

And looks like I'll miss the Blackburn vs. Bayer Leverkusen game since I won't be able to watch ITV4 (wish it was on FIVE). I'll keep tabs on it though.
 
Well he's kinda right. Liverpool were extremely lucky to get those 2 goals. Commentators for the match even stated them as "gift goals".

It was pretty much a dominant game by Barca from minutes 20-80 in the match. Around the 80th minute the wheels came off the Barca attack and they resorted to playing playground football. I will say it was a combination of good luck for Liverpool + bad luck by Barca (how Saviola and Messi did not score on their opportunities baffles me).

BUT

I really don't agree with his overconfidence in Barca being able to breeze into the next round. They're going to have to play incredible to even get it to PK's.

Valdes really should STFU though. I consider him the weakest part of the team. I've never once been impressed by his performances, of the Barca matches I've seen.
 
Outdoor Miner said:
Well he's kinda right. Liverpool were extremely lucky to get those 2 goals. Commentators for the match even stated them as "gift goals".
Click to expand...

I don't see what's so lucky about the second goal.

It was pretty much a dominant game by Barca from minutes 20-80 in the match.
Click to expand...

What the hell? Barca had a 15 minute spell in the first half where they were dominant, rest of the game was very even. If anything the second half was slightly in favour of Liverpool.

I will say it was a combination of good luck for Liverpool + bad luck by Barca (how Saviola and Messi did not score on their opportunities baffles me).
Click to expand...

Well how Kuyt didn't score from his header baffles me.
 
Outdoor Miner said:
Well he's kinda right. Liverpool were extremely lucky to get those 2 goals. Commentators for the match even stated them as "gift goals".

It was pretty much a dominant game by Barca from minutes 20-80 in the match. Around the 80th minute the wheels came off the Barca attack and they resorted to playing playground football. I will say it was a combination of good luck for Liverpool + bad luck by Barca (how Saviola and Messi did not score on their opportunities baffles me).

BUT

I really don't agree with his overconfidence in Barca being able to breeze into the next round. They're going to have to play incredible to even get it to PK's.
Click to expand...

How were both goals luck on our part? If anything, it was Barca's awful defending, it has nothing to do with luck. If a team can't defend to save their lives, that's not our problem, we just exposed them for that and we frustrated them even more.

It's just an excuse, yeah I do agree they were unlucky with a couple of opportunities but other than that, our defense had it under control, especially in the 2nd half. How anyone can say we were lucky, to beat the current holders at Nou Camp (which is quite a mean feat), just absolutely baffles me. We deserve credit. And I'm not just saying that, I can acknowledge that Liverpool have played pretty shite in the past, but not yesterday, we played a technical, smart, confident and narrow game, where we exposed Barcelona's defense on the counter. To simply go all out attack at Nou Camp would be the stupidest thing you could do.
 
I hated how Liverpool played. It seems to me that more teams are playing like they did yesterday e.g. more defensive.

And they won, which is even worse. But then again, Barca should've just gone ahead with playing near the goalarea after the first goal. They didn't which bugs me since they would've won. This game was kinda like the one against Valencia. So much ball posession yet no victory :/

It's gonna be a tough match in two weeks.
 
I feel like I was watching a different match to some of you. I didn't think Liverpool were particularly defensive, and I found watching them hit Barcelona on the break entertaining. They also had more shots on target than Barca.
 
Blackburn team:

Friedel, Emerton, Nelsen (c), Khizanishvili, Warnock, Bentley, Tugay, Dunn, Pedersen, Derbyshire, McCarthy

No surprises, glad to see Pedersen and McCarthy back. Samba's cup-tied, Mokoena's suspended.
 
Half-time, 0-0. We've been the better side, but not too many chances to be honest. It's looking like a 1-0 or 0-0 at the moment, and there's a world of difference between those two scores.
 
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