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Official Football Thread 2006/2007 (Soccer)

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BatiGOOOOOOL said:
What a ****ing joke!

Despite Man U's tradition, it will never even come close to Real Madrid's history and greatness. A rough patch happens to any club.

I understand that but my point is they've changed due to the politics of the clubs (and spanish football to a degree). treating players like trading cards or badges of status rather than heroes and entertainers.

Dont make out like this is not the case. Rivaldo, Figo, Ronaldo, Beckham all huge stars in the world of football who end their time there in less than happy situations almost to the point where its not clear if the club wants them to be associated anymore.

Will Ronaldo be remembered as a Madrid legend? No, He's a Brazillian first and foremost. Same for the likes of Zidane, Figo, Ronaldinho etc. Contrast to say Bobby Chalrton or George Best, Bryan Robson, Paul Scholes, all are first and foremost Man Utd legends. Ex Utd players still remain "part of the family" with regular visits to the stadium, fan clubs and the tv show etc. Walking around you see pictures of ex players everywhere, the history is so valued at Utd.

The last genuine Madrid legend is Raul. The rest of the galacticos are great players but never developed any real affinity with the clubs history or fans. Barca are similar, during this great successful period, will Ronaldinho really be remembered fondly by the club when he hangs up his boots or will they eventually tire of him, stain his name before passing him on and never mentioning him again? Will any of those stars be mentioned in the same breath as the likes of Di Stefano? Ronaldo and Zidane are arguably the best players since Pele and Maradona but have they reached that legendary status?

The clubs are peculiar like that, where teams get boo'd regularly, success is always demanded but never appreciated and the players are little more than trading cards or financial tools and fashion trends. Managers seem like faces who come and go, has any manager ever become engrained in the clubs like Fergie and Wenger have here?

thats why the manager is allowed to change frequently, why they have regular orchestrated media whirlwinds over the next big star, and players are forced to use politics to negotiate contracts.

As glamorous and desireable these clubs appear on the surface, deep down they've lost a lot of the romance which is associated with football as many people will tell you.

Looking at Ruud and Becks, they were adored and worshipped here, but going there they may experience mild success, but at any given time the club or the fans will consider them surplus to requirements and kick them out - and the fans wont remember them once they're gone.

As an english football fan, I can only pity them and hope our league never becomes like that.
 
kaizoku said:
I understand that but my point is they've changed due to the politics of the clubs (and spanish football to a degree). treating players like trading cards or badges of status rather than heroes and entertainers.

Dont make out like this is not the case. Rivaldo, Figo, Ronaldo, Beckham all huge stars in the world of football who end their time there in less than happy situations almost to the point where its not clear if the club wants them to be associated anymore.

Will Ronaldo be remembered as a Madrid legend? No, He's a Brazillian first and foremost. Same for the likes of Zidane, Figo, Ronaldinho etc. Contrast to say Bobby Chalrton or George Best, Bryan Robson, Paul Scholes, all are first and foremost Man Utd legends.

The last genuine Madrid legend is Raul. The rest of the galacticos are great players but never developed any real affinity with the clubs history or fans. Barca are similar, during this great successful period, will Ronaldinho really be remembered fondly by the club when he hangs up his boots or will they eventually tire of him, stain his name before passing him on and never mentioning him again?

The clubs are peculiar like that, where teams get boo'd regularly, success is always demanded but never appreciated and the players are little more than trading cards or financial tools and fashion trends. Managers seem like faces who come and go, has any manager ever become engrained in the clubs like Fergie and Wenger have here?

thats why the manager is allowed to change frequently, why they have regular orchestrated media whirlwinds over the next big star, and players are forced to use politics to negotiate contracts.

As glamorous and desireable these clubs appear on the surface, deep down they've lost a lot of the romance which is associated with football as many people will tell you.

Looking at Ruud and Becks, they were adored and worshipped here, but going there they may experience mild success, but at any given time the club or the fans will consider them surplus to requirements and kick them out - and the fans wont remember them once they're gone.

As an english football fan, I can only pity them and hope our league never becomes like that.
Very well said...

Has Capello been fired yet btw?
 
United haven't exactly had a brilliant time either, though better than Madrid. It's certainly been a rough patch for both, though United's looks like it'll end soon, unlike Madrid's.

I guess it's more surprising in Madrid's case, in a country so dominated by two teams. 63% of La Liga titles have been won by Real or Barca, but you have to go through the top 6 all-time English champions until you get to that percentage (Liverpool, Man Utd, Arsenal, Everton, Aston Villa, Sunderland).

I could understand Ronaldo wanting to go to Barcelona, but the only thing Madrid have over United at the moment is the weather. It'd be a step down...and frankly a pointless one, as he's 22 and his contract runs out when he's 25. He could have his pick of teams then and be in the prime of his career. And if he was refusing to sign a new contract, he'd probably be sold at 24 anyway.
 
kaizoku said:
I understand that but my point is they've changed due to the politics of the clubs (and spanish football to a degree). treating players like trading cards or badges of status rather than heroes and entertainers.

Dont make out like this is not the case. Rivaldo, Figo, Ronaldo, Beckham all huge stars in the world of football who end their time there in less than happy situations almost to the point where its not clear if the club wants them to be associated anymore.

Will Ronaldo be remembered as a Madrid legend? No, He's a Brazillian first and foremost. Same for the likes of Zidane, Figo, Ronaldinho etc. Contrast to say Bobby Chalrton or George Best, Bryan Robson, Paul Scholes, all are first and foremost Man Utd legends. Ex Utd players still remain "part of the family" with regular visits to the stadium, fan clubs and the tv show etc. Walking around you see pictures of ex players everywhere, the history is so valued at Utd.

The last genuine Madrid legend is Raul. The rest of the galacticos are great players but never developed any real affinity with the clubs history or fans. Barca are similar, during this great successful period, will Ronaldinho really be remembered fondly by the club when he hangs up his boots or will they eventually tire of him, stain his name before passing him on and never mentioning him again? Will any of those stars be mentioned in the same breath as the likes of Di Stefano? Ronaldo and Zidane are arguably the best players since Pele and Maradona but have they reached that legendary status?

The clubs are peculiar like that, where teams get boo'd regularly, success is always demanded but never appreciated and the players are little more than trading cards or financial tools and fashion trends. Managers seem like faces who come and go, has any manager ever become engrained in the clubs like Fergie and Wenger have here?

thats why the manager is allowed to change frequently, why they have regular orchestrated media whirlwinds over the next big star, and players are forced to use politics to negotiate contracts.

As glamorous and desireable these clubs appear on the surface, deep down they've lost a lot of the romance which is associated with football as many people will tell you.

Looking at Ruud and Becks, they were adored and worshipped here, but going there they may experience mild success, but at any given time the club or the fans will consider them surplus to requirements and kick them out - and the fans wont remember them once they're gone.

As an english football fan, I can only pity them and hope our league never becomes like that.

Zidane became a legend in Madrid since this exact moment...

zidane40dn.gif


I really don't understand what you're talking about him. He is already an official Real Madrid ambassador all over the world and will continue to work closely with the team for many years to come. Everyone loves him.

Casillas will also go down as a legend. If he retired today, he would definitely be considered one, but I'm sure he still has a lot of great things to give to Real Madrid.

Ronaldo never really got used to the team, wether for attitude problems or coaching decisions, he just never gelled and the injuries didn't help either. Becks and Ruud arrived at Real in the latter part of their career, you can't really compare them to the times where they shined in Man U.

I do agree that there's been a change of politics over the years, which had focused on bringing already established superstars that arrive to the team with a very big ego or with little to none motivation. Plus the youth system has been forgotten until a few months back.

All of that is slowly changing. Now, with more youngsters joining the team before exploding into the international scene, there's a much bigger chance of any of them developing a special bond with the team and it's fans, just like Raul did when he broke into the 1st team. Players, like Ramos, Gago, Higuain, Torres and Marcelo, among others have a shot at this IMO.
 
BatiGOOOOOOL said:
Zidane became a legend in Madrid since this exact moment...

zidane40dn.gif


I really don't understand what you're talking about him. He is already an official Real Madrid ambassador all over the world and will continue to work closely with the team for many years to come. Everyone loves him.

Casillas will also go down as a legend. If he retired today, he would definitely be considered one, but I'm sure he still has a lot of great things to give to Real Madrid.

Ronaldo never really got used to the team, wether for attitude problems or coaching decisions, he just never gelled and the injuries didn't help either. Becks and Ruud arrived at Real in the latter part of their career, you can't really compare them to the times where they shined in Man U.

I do agree that there's been a change of politics over the years, which had focused on bringing already established superstars that arrive to the team with a very big ego or with little to none motivation. Plus the youth system has been forgotten until a few months back.

All of that is slowly changing. Now, with more youngsters joining the team before exploding into the international scene, there's a much bigger chance of any of them developing a special bond with the team and it's fans, just like Raul did when he broke into the 1st team. Players, like Ramos, Gago, Higuain, Torres and Marcelo, among others have a shot at this IMO.

Are you a Madrid fan then?

I'm not sure I agree with that entirely. Anytime Zidane is mentioned by the world's press its rarely as a Madrid legend or player. Contrast with Bobby Charlton who also won the world cup and is one of England's best ever players, he's still viewed as "the Man Utd legend".

Then you have the current generation creating remarkable stories and their own legends which will be remembered in years to come, Fergie included.

Contrast with Madrid who ended their last major succesful era by firing their manager, not offering Makalele the contract he deserved and by constantly trying to unsettle players from rival clubs to replace aging galacticos with new ones. Its all very shallow and greedy. Madrid are the club who's conduct in the transfer market disgusts every other member of G14. They should thank Chelsea for coming along and taking some of the attention away.

Now you have the whole mess with Capello, Beckham, Cassano etc etc. Madrid is set in its ways now. Their style is to throw cash and buy new players to fix problems - the current trend as set by Man Utd and Arsenal is to pull in the top young players before they make their mark and develop them "in-house". it remains to be seen if Madrid possess the coaching know-how to bring out the best in these youngsters. Its been proven time and again that throwing money and bringing in "names" does not solve everything.

All in all it culminates in a club which lacks direction and supporters and presidents who are only interested in votes, popularity, power and the latest fashionable trends.
 
Mourinho takes swipe at Arsenal

Jose Mourinho believes players prefer Chelsea's system of developing youth talent to Arsenal's policy of nurturing youngsters in the Carling Cup.

The Chelsea boss said: "Tell me what a player prefers? To have chances to play now and again, like at Arsenal, one game here and there in the Carling Cup.

"Or like Lassana Diarra was waiting and waiting but working, and when he went into the team, it was to stay.

"Diarra went from being a nobody to being a first-choice Chelsea player."

Ahead of Sunday's Carling Cup final in Cardiff, Mourinho added: "So what is the best process? To give them little chances? Or to work them and put them there when there is no chance to fail and they are completely ready to do it."

But Chelsea's Portuguese manager acknowledged the club's fans have yet to see the best of their youth development programme.

"We have some young boys with good quality and believe they can do it but not yet," said Mourinho.

"I can watch and see a right-back with good potential or a centre-back who is improving a lot but as yet we have none ready for the first team.

"I think you should ask director of youth development Frank Arnesen because he can give you a better answer."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/league_cup/6394515.stm

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol Good ole' Jose...always good for a laugh.

Terry is gonna play in the final BTW, an announcement that was made with some puffed up press release. 'Mind games' and 'subtle' doesn't seem to mesh too well with the blue boys.
 
Mourinho is just rattling the cage a bit, he does too much talking outside the pitch.

If I had to pick out of the two I want to win today, I'd say Arsenal, despite you bastards beating Liverpool 6-3 :(
 
I'd luv it if we beat them (Keegan).

What a statement it would be, Chelsea are playing their strongest team - we don't even have our first team on the bench. Come on!
 
The kick-off might be delayed because of train problems, tons of fans won't make it for 3.

Normally I wouldn't care who wins between Chelsea and Arsenal, would just hope for a good game. But because it's the youngsters/reserves, it'd be cool if Arsenal win. i expect Chelsea to though.

Blackburn are being linked with Rasiak, a Southampton striker. You might remember him as Spurs' old 4th choice striker. Never got much of a chance, though he never looked that impressive on the pitch anyway. Still, with Southampton he's scored 17 goals so far this season, so maybe he's turned things round.

I've been thinking which striker we could buy this summer too, as it's definitely the position we need to strengthen. Here's my brief list of people who are possibly available and might come to us and we could afford (roughly in order of preference, only English leagues):

Bellamy
Mido
Viduka
Earnshaw
Smith (Alan)
Aliadiere
King (Marlon)
Fowler
Montella
Lita
Rasiak

I just hope we don't end up with Beattie.
 
Teams:

Arsenal - Almunia, Hoyte, Toure, Senderos, Traore, Denilson, Diaby, Fabregas, Walcott, Aliadiere, Baptista

Subs: Hleb, Djourou, Poom, Adebayor, Eboue

Chelsea - Cech, Diarra, Carvalho, Terry, Bridge, Ballack, Makelele, Essien, Lampard, Drogba, Shevchenko

Subs: Hilario, Cole, Mikel, Robben, Kalou
 
Can't wait for this game.

And also, I think that Blackburn could afford Crouch too. Either Bellamy or Crouch is leaving next summer along with Fowler (being replaced by Voronin), we won't sell Kuyt and we'll buy another striker, don't know who though.
 
hadareud said:
I love it how they say that Mourinho is respecting the Carling Cup with his line up, while Wenger isn't.

****ing idiots.

I stopped paying attention to panels and commentators a long long time ago.
 
Oh, I forgot Fowler, he should be on there too.

While we might be able to afford Crouch, I think a bigger/richer club would come in for him before us.
 
Well, the shit has hit the fan in the Dutch Eredivisie it seems. :lol

PSV with a lucky 1-0 win (Alex '88 min), and today AZ - Ajax 1-1 with a red card for Davids, 5 more yellow cards for other Ajax players, and only one yellow card for an AZ player. Ten Cate was furious.

So PSV is back to a 7 point lead over Ajax:

1. PSV 26 63 62-15
2. Ajax 26 56 61-28
3. AZ 26 55 67-26
4. FC Twente 26 54 55-27
5. Feyenoord 26 46 51-51

Great weekend. :lol
 
great first half for us, Chelsea are shite. I hope this continues, we have a great chance to win this one.

And Thhhheeeeoooo!
 
kaizoku said:
Are you a Madrid fan then?

I'm not sure I agree with that entirely. Anytime Zidane is mentioned by the world's press its rarely as a Madrid legend or player. Contrast with Bobby Charlton who also won the world cup and is one of England's best ever players, he's still viewed as "the Man Utd legend".

Then you have the current generation creating remarkable stories and their own legends which will be remembered in years to come, Fergie included.

Contrast with Madrid who ended their last major succesful era by firing their manager, not offering Makalele the contract he deserved and by constantly trying to unsettle players from rival clubs to replace aging galacticos with new ones. Its all very shallow and greedy. Madrid are the club who's conduct in the transfer market disgusts every other member of G14. They should thank Chelsea for coming along and taking some of the attention away.

Now you have the whole mess with Capello, Beckham, Cassano etc etc. Madrid is set in its ways now. Their style is to throw cash and buy new players to fix problems - the current trend as set by Man Utd and Arsenal is to pull in the top young players before they make their mark and develop them "in-house". it remains to be seen if Madrid possess the coaching know-how to bring out the best in these youngsters. Its been proven time and again that throwing money and bringing in "names" does not solve everything.

All in all it culminates in a club which lacks direction and supporters and presidents who are only interested in votes, popularity, power and the latest fashionable trends.

Yes, I've been a Madrid fan all my life. I'm not an extremely devoted fan because I don't even live in Spain, but I've always loved the team, ever since I have memory.

You do realize that I already agreed with you on the crappy management the team has had ever since Florentino took over. I'm also aware that there's still many problems that need to be addressed. My point was that at least the new board is trying to change directions bringing in youngsters and trying to promote the youth system a lot more, making it much more feasible for any of these youngsters to develop the majority of their career at the club and become a symbol, legend, whatever.

Sadly, Florentino left the team in ruins with all the greedy decisions he made(choosing Beckham over Ronaldinho, not signing Kaka beacause he didn't have a worthy name for Real Madrid, etc.) and it will take some time to get everything in order. Of course, he is not Real Madrid, so grouping his ideas with the ones from the fans is a bit of an insult. Real Madrid fans only know the tradition of winning, which is what matters, not popularity, economic power and all that. That just comes with the success of the club.

Calderon has made mistakes also, but he has a much clearer vision of how a team like Madrid should be manage. He is no miracle worker though, so I'll give him a little more time.

As for Zidane, he is definitely a legend in the team. I don't know if he is considered one all around the world by other teams' supporters, but for Real Madrid, he is pretty much at the same level of DiStefano or Puskas.
 
Sounds like a heck of a match so far. Too bad I can't watch it here in the States. I guess I'll check out the replay tomorrow. Come on you Gunners!
 
Ryck said:
Who just got knocked the hell out....damn streaming software :( GREAT game so far

It's Terry. I hope he's fine. I was pretty concerned when I first saw the image of him on the ground. I thought I saw blood streaming from his nose but I must be mistaken.
 
ElyrionX said:
It's Terry. I hope he's fine. I was pretty concerned when I first saw the image of him on the ground. I thought I saw blood streaming from his nose but I must be mistaken.
He came off with an oxygen mask and a neck brace, but he was conscious.
 
**** I get up to answer the phone I come back and both managers are on the pitch........WHOA three red cards this is insane
 
That free-for-all was very amusing and entertaining. Even the managers had to get on to calm things down. :lol

Three red and two yellow cards for that incident alone. :lol
 
oh my god :lol

That ending was ****ed up

Id rather Arsenal won though, but what a game. Arsenal fans must be gutted, I saw the incident but its so blurry, why did Adebayor get sent off?
 
Walcott scores an amazing opening goal for Arsenal. Drogba equalizes and scores another to win the game. Terry goes down unconscious and has to be stretchered off. Seven minutes of time added. A free-for-all in extra time extends the match to 102 minutes and results in three players being sent off. This match truly had it all. :lol
 
I missed the first 10 minutes and the last last 5 minutes. Thanks, crappy connection. I'll talk about that game when I've actually seen all the talking points.

Blackburn beat Portsmouth 3-0, and from what I hear it could have been more. We missed another penalty.
 
Lakitu said:
oh my god :lol

That ending was ****ed up

Id rather Arsenal won though, but what a game. Arsenal fans must be gutted, I saw the incident but its so blurry, why did Adebayor get sent off?

According to the commentator, he floored Bridge. I have no idea though. I didn't catch anything. It was too chaotic.
 
Mama Smurf said:
I missed the first 10 minutes and the last last 5 minutes. Thanks, crappy connection. I'll talk about that game when I've actually seen all the talking points.

Blackburn beat Portsmouth 3-0, and from what I hear it could have been more. We missed another penalty.

Oh, good result for you lot, I'm glad to hear Warnock scored, he was a good player for Liverpool, sounds like he's doing well for you.
 
I'm absolutely gutted. It was an even game and I think we were the better side - Chelsea had a few late chances but that was it. Losing against Chelsea and that manager is just gutting, for the lack of a better word.

2 of the 3 red card were an absolute joke btw, a yellow would have been easily enough for Toure and Mikel. I don't know what Adebayor did, if anything. Hope they clear that up. I ****ing hate Chelsea.
 
Booo! Too bad that Arsenal lost in the end. :( In any case, it was a great experience for some of the young guys to play in that match - that'll help in the future. I guess I'll watch a bit of the rebroadcast tomorrow.

How did the young Arsenal players look? Did anyone in particular stand out?
 
Walcott had a great game, apart from a wonderful goal. His best game in an Arsenal shirt for sure. Diaby was outstanding I thought, Hoyte was very good too.

edit: Lampard is a dirty **** btw. **** him and this team.
 
hadareud said:
Walcott had a great game, apart from a wonderful goal. His best game in an Arsenal shirt for sure. Diaby was outstanding I thought, Hoyte was very good too.

edit: Lampard is a dirty **** btw. **** him and this team.

The domination of Chelsea continues really, it's quite sad, because each year they're going to put huge bids on players that no other team can match.

They'll most likely get another striker this summer, Shevchenko had a really poor performance.

But the Arsenal young guns played really well I thought, they were better than Chelsea, they have a lot of quality in them and Theo Walcott for me stood out today. He'll be great for the future, Diaby reeks of quality too and certainly reminds me of Viera in his prime.
 
I thought Lampard should get a red card as well, for the fight with Adebayor (Mikel and Toure did get it for their fight).

Arsenal played well but still could not stop Drogba. It is really a nightmare for Senderos...
 
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