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Official Football Thread (Soccer)

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H

Hooker

Member
I haven't seen the game, but was surprised about the result. Especially seeing England-B played, I'd imagine they want to show why they should be in the England-A squad.




But I'm not going to critisise, Holland-A will play Cameroon tomorrow. The team that got knocked out by our opponents in the group stage, Ivory Coast. I don't want to see the shitstorm or euphoria that will occur after this game. Lose-lose situation.

We win, we get over-confident, we lose we get depressed... But that's Holland for you :)

(4001 posts already :))

Some interesting match-ups tomorrow btw:

01:00
United States
? - ?
Venezuela


03:00
Northern Ireland
? - ?
Romania


12:00
Georgia
? - ?
New Zealand


17:00
Germany
? - ?
Luxembourg


17:30
Switzerland
? - ?
Ivory Coast


18:15
Wales
? - ?
Trinidad & Tobago


18:30
Portugal
? - ?
Cape Verde


19:30
Holland
? - ?
Cameroon


20:00
Denmark
? - ?
Paraguay


20:15
Serbia & Montenegro
? - ?
Uruguay


21:00
France
? - ?
Mexico


21:30
Colombia
? - ?
Romania


22:00
Spain
? - ?
Russia
 
M

Mama Smurf

My penis is still intact.
That is a problem we might face. If we're playing, say, Sweden in the last group game and they're 2-1 up and defending really deep and we need to win...Walcott probably won't make a difference.

There are lots of scenarios he could though. I can't really see Brazil being that defensive even if it's a similar situation, he'd have room if he came on against a side who pretty much refuses to stop attacking like them. I think he'd also have a lot more luck against any team down the wing, if we chose to use him that way instead, pushing Joe Cole into a more attacking role. Finally, he's cover if someone gets injured or suspended and he has to start a game, in which case he'd have just as much space as any of them.

I think Rooney could still make it to play properly, they say he could be back to full training by June 14th, so obviously he'd be building up to that beforehand, which gives him over 2 weeks before the quarter-finals. He might not make that date, but if he does he should be fit enough...perhaps not for 90 minutes, but fit enough to play. And personally I would say a not quite there Rooney is a better prospect than any other strike combination that we have.
 
P

psycho_snake

I went to WAGs boutique and all I got was a sniff
I think walcott might make some impact, His speed is certainly an asset and there will be several situations where we can use him to help us play better, but Walcott certainly wont do what Rooney did in 2004 for several reasons.

Firstly Rooney had premierhsip experience before he played in the Euro. He had made a name for himself with some impressive performances with everton. He wa splaying regular first team football and was playing some very good football. Its a completely different story for walcott. Until yesterday the biggest game he had played was probably for Southampton in the championship. Sure he's been training with Arsenal for the last 6 months but thats nothing like playing football at the top domestic level, which was something rooney was able to do for a while. Whilst no one should expect too much from a 17 year old, people will be critical of him because this is Englands best chance of winning any silverware and also because he got a place in an England squad that the likes of defoe and Bent couldnt.

Back in 2004 I dont think England fans were as optimistic about our chances of winning the tournament as they are now, which means that there was less pressure on the players to perform. Rooneyb was lucky because he had very little pressure to perform in Euro 2004, people were expecting to see owen perform and defenders were much more aware about Owen than they were about Rooney. Owen was a world class player who was recognised by everyone whilst Rooney was just known back in England, no one outside of England really knew who he was.

At the euro we didnt have anyone better than Rooney so he was a first team choice. Since England have more options this year, Walcott is furthur down in the pecking order. Less play time will mean that he ahs less time to make an impact. Id be surprised to see Walcott play from the start of a match so he'll only have little time to make any impact.

Now that Rooney cant play in the group stages, Walcott will probably have more time to play, but it depends on the formation we play. If Sven is going to stick a player behind a striker so that we play a 4-4-1-1, we might not see Walcott because Gerrard will most likely play behind the striker whilst Owen will have that spot upfront and if he isnt doing much then crouch will probably come on because he offers something different. If we play al 4-4-2 then we might get to seer a bit more of him if things are not goign well with owen and Crouch.
 
M

Mama Smurf

My penis is still intact.
Rooney and Walcott are completely different players. Rooney takes games by the scruff of the neck, he's more often than not the dominant player on the pitch. I mean he strolled into the Man Utd side, scoring a hat trick on his debut (which was also his first taste of Europe). He's also ridiculously strong, and has been since he first started playing in the Premiership. He's not particularly big...he's kind of stumpy if anything...but pretty much no one knocks Rooney off the ball.

From everything I've seen or read about Walcott, he's not that sort of player (or not yet anyway). He's not going to take a game by the scruff of the neck...he could play extremely well, but he probably won't be the focal point of the team. Sounds a bit like Owen to me, as in while Gerrard and Rooney can own a game, Owen and Walcott will just do their job extremely well.

I understand why the comparions exist. Since Rooney, he's the first major young attacking English player to come through. They were both signed by big clubs at a young age for a lot of money. Without Rooney's injury, it's highly unlikely Walcott would have been called up, I get it. But that's pretty much where the comparisons should end. In their style of play, in their experience, in their attitude, they're nothing like each other.

I still don't think the focus should be on the fact that Walcott came, but rather that we've only taken 4 strikers. I know that worst comes to worst we can play 5 in midfield, but with the Rooney situation I can't believe we're not taking 5 strikers. When we only have Owen, Crouch, injured Rooney and Walcott, questions are asked. Unfortunately they seem to be being asked about just Walcott specifically, rather than the make up of the squad as a whole. If we had Owen, Crouch, injured Rooney, Walcott and Bent (or whoever), Walcott wouldn't have to have so much on his shoulders. The media could look at him and say "Young player, untried, but who knows, he could be great. If he's not, not such a problem, we've got at least 3 other strikers".

I kind of wish someone like Downing would get injured so we could call up Defoe...though there's no guarantee Eriksson would bring in a striker for a midfielder.
 
P

psycho_snake

I went to WAGs boutique and all I got was a sniff
I didnt make the comparisons just because Rooney and walcott are the two biggest english talents to come through recently, but because many people are expecting, or hoping should i say, for walcott to make a big impact and be a major force for England. Ive got friends who really think that walcott will be like rooney, but I just cant see it happening.

It is a concern that we only took 4 strikers. One of them is definately ruled out for the group stages and we're unsure for how much longer after that. Owen is world class. Crouch, despite the lack of international experience can be useful and walcott just doesnt have the experience. God forbid, but if Owen got injured again during the world cup and Rooney cant make it until the semi's or finals, then I cant see us getting far with Crouch and walcott.

Sven wont do it, but Id wish he would reconsider the players that he picked and swap Bent for one of the midfielders, preferably Hargreaves because i dont see what he offers. We've got enough midfield players, most of which are quite versatile and can play in other positions, so we wont have a shortage, but we're lacking upfront and its worrying.
 
M

Mama Smurf

My penis is still intact.
I don't think we can swap anyone, unless they get injured.

Milan have confirmed Shevchenko is leaving. Not to Chelsea necessarily...but it'd be amazing if it was anywhere else. He wants to come to England at the very least as he has an American wife and says he doesn't even speak her language and wants to. Can't wait to see him.
 
P

psycho_snake

I went to WAGs boutique and all I got was a sniff
I knew he was going to move. ever sinc ehe mentioned that he was considering the move i knew that it was going to happen. Im really not happy in the slightest about his decision. I dont want to go through another campaign fighting for 2nd place. No matter who Arsenal, man utd or Liverpool buy, its going to be very very difficult to compete with a team that is as good as Chelsea's. Sheva and Ballack are goign to make next seaosn another walk in the park for the bastards in blue.
 
M

Mama Smurf

My penis is still intact.
But they might be more fun to watch. For those of us with no hope of chasing the title anyway, it's great news.

I don't think it's that cut and dry anyway, I still expect it to be a much closer race despite Shevchenko and Ballack...so long as the others buy right.
 
B

brooklyngooner

Member
I would agree with Herr Smurf. It will certainly be the least cut-and dried since the sketchy Russian took office, provided we buy a centrehalf and Liverpool solve their strike deficiencies. As for ManYoo, I'm a little less conviced given the Glazier ownership. They need a new (expensive) central midfield pairing as well as someone to replace the soon-to-be-departed (by departed I mean kicked in the ass out of the club) van Noodletugger (I can't see Fergie standing pat with a Saha/Rooney/Rossi triumverate). If Diarra can come with Rude in part-exchange, that goes a LONG way. If not and they must settle, I think they're behind the other three but still well ahead of the rest.
 
G

Ghost

Chili Con Carnage!
I dunno, think how many sitters Drogba and Crespo have missed this season, if Sheva can even manage to score half that number, Chelsea will dominate like never before.
 
B

brooklyngooner

Member
No offense, but that's how a lot of us felt about United prior to Chelsea being around (buying Ferdinand for 30, Rooney for 22, etc.). Not destroying, but playing on a whole other level.
 
M

MrPing1000

Member
brooklyngooner said:
No offense, but that's how a lot of us felt about United prior to Chelsea being around (buying Ferdinand for 30, Rooney for 22, etc.). Not destroying, but playing on a whole other level.
Click to expand...

there is a distinct difference though. It took us nearly 10 years to get to the stage where we could spend so much money. And in the era we did we could manage to spend that much usually once a season (Veron + Ruud the exception). Chelsea just pick who they want and 9 times out of 10 they will get them because they are willing to pay anything if their need is great enough.

I understand your point though. One of the reasons I'm impressed by Arsenal is how well they've done on really a small budget compared to us. Reaping the benefits now. New stadium, reyes etc. Building for a good future.
 
G

Ghost

Chili Con Carnage!
The way i see it, at the rate Chelsea are buying giant name players for inflated prices and on inflated salaries..its only a matter of time before they develop Real Madrid syndrome.


Couple more years of dominance on the cards yet though.
 
B

brooklyngooner

Member
Ping: I agree, and United always bought within their limits (such as they were); meaning it was all earned income, not economically raped Russian people and environment money. Very different.

I do think though that the same four teams battling for the CL positions is far more harmful than one team with the by far largest chance to win the league.
 
P

psycho_snake

I went to WAGs boutique and all I got was a sniff
Ghost said:
The way i see it, at the rate Chelsea are buying giant name players for inflated prices and on inflated salaries..its only a matter of time before they develop Real Madrid syndrome.


Couple more years of dominance on the cards yet though.
Click to expand...
Im not too sure about that. the reason why Real madrid have turned into a complete mess is because Perez was a right dumbass to sack Del Bosque, who had won 2 champiosn leagues and 2 spanish league titles in 5 years. Del Bosque was an incredibly good manager and he seemed to know how to cope with the big star players. I'll never understand why Perez decided to sack him because del bosque because del bosque did everything right. the man that was appointed after del bosque was Carlos Queiroz and he wasnt good enough for the job. Since del bosque i cant remember how many managers Real madrid have had. in the last 3 years I remember Queiroz, Camacho, luxemborgo and the manager they have now. All those managers were not good enough for the job.

Mourinho isnt like the real madrid managers that failed. He knows how to handle players and as long as he can do that then he can make an invincible team with the financial backing that he has. i honestly had hope that next season could be big for manchester United, along with Liverpool and Arsenal, but I just cant see Chelsea not winning it. Sure theree will be players in the team who will have lost interest and the rival teams will be stronger, but Chelsea look like they'll still be dominant
 
H

Hooker

Member
Hehe, Perez sacked Del Bosque because he didn't have the allure that a Real manager should have. At least, that's what got out in the media here.

Funny that with sacking him, all that "allure" that Real had left, left along with him.




And I'm gutted about Sheva leaving, because he wants to raise his kid with English. He's pussy-whipped, the bastard :/ - I'm hoping he does to Manchester in place of Ruud - should even the playing field a bit in England. Sheva at Chelsea is just scary
 
P

psycho_snake

I went to WAGs boutique and all I got was a sniff
He's not going to United. We dont have the money to buy him, we dont have the money to pay him, Sheva's wife is friends with abramovichs wife and Im sure if he wants to live in England he would want to live in London. Even if man Utd did have the money to buy him he would still choose Chelsea bceuase of his wife and because chelsea are the more dominant team.
 
M

MrPing1000

Member
all we need to do is buy reo-coker or carrick and riquelme. Easy. Better than spending £20million on some Diarra who is NOT worth it.

I'll be wanting Fergie's head if Ruud goes.
 
S

Shinobi

Member
Mama Smurf's thoughts on the England/Belarus tilt more or less echo my own, so there's no need for me to be in depth. Needless to say Lennon was simply fantastic, Owen looked fit, Crouch showed some nice touch on the ball, and Campbell and Cole continued their strong play from the Champions League final. And I don't know WTF Belarus were thinking with their fouls...just ridiculous stuff from them.

Oh yeah, the Robert Green injury had me laughing out loud as they kept replaying it...it's one of the dopiest looking things I've ever seen. Poor guy...hopefully he's able to recover.

I was hoping to catch the France/Mexico game at a bar today, but I'm feeling a little too sick to make the trip. Besides I don't know if my boy Henry is gonna play much anyway.
 
P

psycho_snake

I went to WAGs boutique and all I got was a sniff
celestial body said:
Well apparently United are going after Inter's Cambiasso, if the diarra move isn't possible.
Click to expand...
Id love to see cambiasso at United. Ive watched him quite a lot and i think he would be a good addition to have. I wold imagine he would work well with riquelme. they;re both argentinian and they play together in the national team. Riquelme will only be an asset if we got a defensive midfielder because riquelme isnt the type of player who runs back and does any defending. Cambiasso isnt that type of player but i think he would do enough running back to compensate for Riquelme.

Regarding Italy, ive heard that Emerson and Zambrotta will be on their way out. Emerson would be a good option for Man utd/. he's a hard working midfielder and he's world class, its exactly what we need. As for Zambrotta, I thibk he'll end up at Chelsea. There have been rumours about chelsea signing a left back and there are nto many better that Zambrotta.
 
S

Shinobi

Member
I wouldn't be surprised if we start to see a mini exdous of top talent from Serie A over the next year or two. Talk is that AC Milan's gotten up to some funny stuff as well, which is all that league needs.
 
C

cybamerc

Will start substantiating his hate
Shinobi said:
I wouldn't be surprised if we start to see a mini exdous of top talent from Serie A over the next year or two. Talk is that AC Milan's gotten up to some funny stuff as well, which is all that league needs.
Click to expand...
They are investigating many teams.

Some people seem to think that it's just a matter of time before Juventus is relegated to Serie B or even Serie C. I wonder how many Juve players have relegation clauses in their contracts. I doubt too many of them have considered Juve being relegated as a possibility.
 
P

psycho_snake

I went to WAGs boutique and all I got was a sniff
cybamerc said:
They are investigating many teams.

Some people seem to think that it's just a matter of time before Juventus is relegated to Serie B or even Serie C. I wonder how many Juve players have relegation clauses in their contracts. I doubt too many of them have considered Juve being relegated as a possibility.
Click to expand...
Even if they dont have relegation clauses, the majority of plyers will move. Juve is a team full fo world class players and most of them won't want to play for a serie A team. If juve do get relegated all the players will get plenty of interest from different clubs and juve will be forcved to sell because the players dont want to play for them anymore and because Juve will lose so much money if they get relegated so they need to sell to get that money back.

I like Juve so I dont want them to get relegated, but im desperate to see AC milan get releagted so man Utd cn try to get Kaka. He would be perfect for us.
 
S

Shinobi

Member
The "goal" he scored in '88 is one of the few I'd put up there with Maradona's wondergoal in '86 (Careca's goal for Mexico in '86 was fucking ridiculous as well). I remember everyone wanting to be Van Basten after the Euro that year. :lol

And no sooner do I post about a possible mini-exodous from Italy, then Arsenal is linked to a transfer move with Juventus...for Patrick Veiria! :lol How cool would that be? Of course he'd probably be seen as too slow for Arsenal now, where the Gunners were a rudderless ship without him barely four months ago. My how times have changed.

Meanwhile Fulham of all teams is apparantely prepping up a bid for Sol Campbell, which I imagine would suit him a lot more then a move to fucking Turkey.
 
U

ucdawg12

Member
brooklyngooner said:
I do think though that the same four teams battling for the CL positions is far more harmful than one team with the by far largest chance to win the league.
Click to expand...
IAWTP. I don't know how soccer is so popular when so many clubs and fans have pretty much zero hope for a top division title or even a shot at Europe where they wouldn't probably accomplish anything anyway. I like watching the CL (its all I get here in the US) but I don't understand how people can get so into it in Europe, I mean wheres the fun, you're either a glory hunter or a fan of a team with little hope of winning anything important. I have become a fan of Villa to try to get into it, but seeing what their fans go through with the ownership and the manager, I almost wonder whats the point of caring unless some miracle occurs and your team gets bought by a billionare who wants to sink his money into a club, how exciting can it be finishing 8th compared to 17th...
 
C

Chibbi Brady

Member
Shinobi said:
Oh yeah, here's a pretty cool site for those who haven't seen it.

http://www.footballclips.net/
Click to expand...

Thanks Shinobi, some great footage there. Watched a great program about Maradona today so went straight for his footage, the punishment he took from other players was nothing short of criminal. Great to see him back in shape and in action in that soccer aid thing. It really annoyed me that the crowd booed him though, bloody idiots. Don't think we'll see another like him, as good as Ronaldinho is, he's no Maradona.
 
P

psycho_snake

I went to WAGs boutique and all I got was a sniff
The more I think about Rooney's situation, the more I believe that he should be dropped. Obviously as a man utd fan i want to see Rooney fit for the start of next season and looking at the competition there is going to be next season, its imperative that he's fit for us.

I've never agreed with the stuff Sir Fergie has said and done in the past. The way he has treated ruud is something I stuill cant get over and I wont be able to forgive him if he does go, but I fully agree with his opinion on rooney. Sure he's come out and said he wants rooney to play in the world cup, but bullshit was written across his forehead when he said that. He's being realistic, he realises that its going to be very difficult to get someone who cant kick a ball now and maybe get a bit of training done to go and play in the world cup quarter finals. Its insane.

The whole thing stinks of desperation. If Sven is going to take an unfit player who might not be fit at all then it just shows that we are too desperate for him to get back and that we are relying on him far too much. The desperation also shows that sven might risk playing Rooney unfit just for the sake of him being on the pitch.
 
S

Shinobi

Member
Yeah...relying on Rooney to possibly play in a quarter final game doesn't make a bit of sense to me to be honest. Makes even less sense if England have been playing in a 4-5-1 formation up until that point to get to that point, only to then have to change the system around to accomodate him.

Unfortunately a lot of people have built Rooney out to be Jesus, and that England doesn't have a prayer without him. And while that might be the truth (it's certainly something I believe), it isn't the sort of mentality a team should have.
 
G

Ghost

Chili Con Carnage!
Apparently the Sheva to Chelsea deal will now actually be a swap for Gallas, the two players have agreed the terms but the clubs have to hammer out the details.

It'll be interesting to see how much more they think Sheva is worth (id much rather have Gallas personally).



Aparently ManU have offered £18 mill for Diarra, but Lyon want £25! Greedy shits!


And theres stuff in the paper saying Mourinho will be off to Inter after next season...tbh i wouldnt be supprised to see him leave, he seemed totally unimpressed by winning the premiership this season, maybe he's looking for a real challenge...though italy might not be the best place to go if half the top sides get relegated this year :lol.
 
I

Irish Icon

Member
I don't know, Diarra is an outstanding player. Maybe Lyon believe they can get it for him. Man U desperately needs a player like Diarra.
 
S

seanoff

Member
Chelski to buy Shevchenko for a flat 30M. No swap, nothing and they've also bought another striker. Kalou??

They have enough players already to put out decent and different teams in different comps.

Wonder what their loss will be this year?
 
H

hadareud

The Translator
Well, now they even have a decent striker.

It's very frustrating to be honest, some clubs have sponsors that pay a fixed amount of money. Other clubs are alowed to report a 50 million pound deficit every year - and their "sponsor" just pays for the losses and nobody seems to give a fuck.

It's completely destroying any competion. Not long and every russian oil and druglord will own a premiership team. Some to impress, others to wash their money. I don't know which one it is for Chelsea.

Then again, I don't even want to care about this club anymore. I used to watch their games and get upset, I will try not to care anymore.
 
M

MrPing1000

Member
from rednews

With Abramovich FC spending £30m on Schevchenko, Abramovich has now spent more in 4 summers (£294m) than Fergie has in 20 (£270m).

The real truth though can be seen in the net transfer fees. Abramovichs net spending on players is £268m, compared to Fergies £93m.
 
B

brooklyngooner

Member
The only perverse joy I will get from this is when Chelsea again do not win in Europe and Mourinho gets fired.

What really amuses me is when these people come to Chelsea and talk about the club's stature and tradition. What tradition? They've won fuck all. Oh sorry I forgot about their glorious Cup Winners' Cup tradition.
 
H

hadareud

The Translator
I watched Newsnight last night (the program that came up with this allegations) and as you would expect, they blew it completely out of proportions.

Then again, this is really not something I like to see Arsenal involved with and the whole thing is quite dodgy.

I saw a program some time ago about how Ajax is getting young players from Africa - modern slavery is an understatement. Disgusting. And to think Arsenal is exploiting people this way via another club doesn't fill my heart with warmth. But I don't think they've done something illegal as such, you would think Dein is too smart for that.
 
H

Hooker

Member
Euro U-21 Championship final today


Netherlands - Ukraine

Along with these friendlies:

Holland - Australia
Japan - Malta
Korea Republic - Ghana
Ivory Coast - Slovenia
Brazil - New Zealand
Rep. of Macedonia - Turkey
Colombia - Morocco

What is it with these countries rehearsing against weak teams?! We had Cameroon, Mexico and now the weakest, Australia. Brasil is doing New Zealand for crying out loud :|
 
P

psycho_snake

I went to WAGs boutique and all I got was a sniff
This place has gone dead. I know the world cup is just a few days away but there is still plenty of stuff regarding transfers and such. Maybe we should make a thread just for transfers or maybe start a new thread after the world cup.

The latest bit of news is that after a year, John Obi Mikel, the player who signed for united, went missing (probably after being taken hostage by Abramovichs mafia) and then said he wants to play for chelsea, has finally made his dream move to Chelsea (who are still keeping up their habit of buying players so no one else can have them) where he will probably spend most of his time on the bench. Im glad that he's gone. he just caused so many problems and even though we might have lost one of the world greatest young talents, we did get a whopping £12 million from him, so hopefully that money can be put to good use. Whilst i hope that Fergie has realised that he cant afford to make another bad purchase, ive got a feeling that we we could see another kelberson "world cup winner" type player.
 
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