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[AmMortal]

I saw a programme on the BBC last year, where a modern day female muslim journalist went to meet a hardcore, word for word Muslim guy in Nigeria.

From the show, I actually have a lot more respect for Muslims that take their book word for word and are unwilling to change it. The guy believed in the book so he took on everything 100%, and I have respect for that - even though he was bat shit fucking insane.

The female journalist, on the other hand, wanted to modernise the book, to periodically change the interpretation of it based on modern opinions (e.g. gay rights, women able to shake men's hands etc). This person I have no respect for. If she didn't believe or agree with the religion why didn't she just drop it? If you don't believe it then don't subscribe. Don't try changing a book to suit your needs when you feel like it.

:lol :lol :lol I died at the batshit crazy thing, my bro watched that episode, he told me :lol :lol


The female journalist says a lot about the Muslims these days, some are eagerly trying to comprimise it ,others are the opposite.

 

[CrushDance]

I saw a programme on the BBC last year, where a modern day female muslim journalist went to meet a hardcore, word for word Muslim guy in Nigeria.

From the show, I actually have a lot more respect for Muslims that take their book word for word and are unwilling to change it. The guy believed in the book so he took on everything 100%, and I have respect for that - even though he was bat shit fucking insane.

The female journalist, on the other hand, wanted to modernise the book, to periodically change the interpretation of it based on modern opinions (e.g. gay rights, women able to shake men's hands etc). This person I have no respect for. If she didn't believe or agree with the religion why didn't she just drop it? If you don't believe it then don't subscribe. Don't try changing a book to suit your needs when you feel like it.

:lol You have a link or remember the name? I'd love to watch it.

In your eyes? Sure. In other people's eyes? No.

See, the majority of people's belief's = the religion. If the majority of Muslims thinks that women should not have as many rights as men, then that's what "Islam" is.

But that doesn't make it right If a bunch of little kids believed 2+2=5, would it be right?

So the children and babies were evil and corrrupted too, come on!

I can't answer for that Gig. And it's not something I agree with either, but you have to remember the great flood as well to where something similar happened. There's always casualties in war, even now you have innocent children dying overseas in a war we believe to be right.

They couldn't save everybody.

 

[AmMortal]

:lol You have a link or remember the name? I'd love to watch it.

I think its that I'm not sure..

 

[Fuzzery]

:lol You have a link or remember the name? I'd love to watch it.

But that doesn't make it right If a bunch of little kids believed 2+2=5, would it be right?

WTF are you getting at? Right and wrong has nothing to do with anything here.

 

[Amir0x]

I appreciate your effort to start a more positive discourse about the faith, Warrior300. Do not be discouraged by the more immature segments of GAF.

 

[CrushDance]

WTF are you getting at? Right and wrong has nothing to do with anything here.

Yes it does. Just because the masses follow one thing doesn't make it right! People would crap into buckets and throw them onto the streets in middle age Europe. Was that right? Islam especially has been hijacked by extremist groups and they are now the face of Islam. Go into google and type it up, you'll find tons of articles and videos about the subject. Look at how the Taliban were treating women in Afghanistan before they got driven out, is the majority of the country still not muslim now? Why are women more free now?

No person of Islamic faith I've ever met has been a die hard ready to blow themselves up. You see those suicide bombers and the part of the world they live in? Constant war 24/7. They became enraged and violent and took their faith as the banner for their war.

How many Muslims do you see like that here?

 

[AmMortal]

:lol You have a link or remember the name? I'd love to watch it.

But that doesn't make it right If a bunch of little kids believed 2+2=5, would it be right?

I can't answer for that Gig. And it's not something I agree with either, but you have to remember the great flood as well to where something similar happened. There's always casualties in war, even now you have innocent children dying overseas in a war we believe to be right.

They couldn't save everybody.

Good answer, Islam would take the view that killing the children would have been an add on as war enticements, as prophet's wouldn't order te killing of innocents.

This is why Jesus came. To change it back to its Original.

 

[Fuzzery]

Yes it does. Just because the masses follow one thing doesn't make it right! People would crap into buckets and throw them onto the streets in middle age Europe. Was that right? Islam especially has been hijacked by extremist groups and they are now the face of Islam.

No person of Islamic faith I've ever met has been a die hard ready to blow themselves up. You see those suicide bombers and the part of the world they live in? Constant war 24/7. They became enraged and violent and took their faith as the banner for their war.

How many Muslims do you see like that here?

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol You just don't get my argument do you?

Warrior300: You still haven't answered.

What the majority of people who think they are "Muslim" believe is Islam. Do you agree, disagree?

 

[AmMortal]

Yes it does. Just because the masses follow one thing doesn't make it right! People would crap into buckets and throw them onto the streets in middle age Europe. Was that right? Islam especially has been hijacked by extremist groups and they are now the face of Islam. Go into google and type it up, you'll find tons of articles and videos about the subject. Look at how the Taliban were treating women in Afghanistan before they got driven out, is the majority of the country still not muslim now? Why are women more free now?

No person of Islamic faith I've ever met has been a die hard ready to blow themselves up. You see those suicide bombers and the part of the world they live in? Constant war 24/7. They became enraged and violent and took their faith as the banner for their war.

How many Muslims do you see like that here?

Man, I have never seen anything like this. Good argument, I feel ashamed of not coming up with the same.

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol You just don't get my argument don't you?

Warrior300: You still haven't answered.

What the majority of people who think they are "Muslim" believe is Islam. Do you agree, disagree?

Islam is the direct and literal Word of God in the Qur'an and what was afore mentioned in the Scrolls of Abraham and the Torah and the Gospel right up to the Qur'an. Islam was the only thing all the Prophets(pbuth) taught.

 

[James Power]

I appreciate your effort to start a more positive discourse about the faith, Warrior300. Do not be discouraged by the more immature segments of GAF.

Are you for real? Shouldn't "discussing" entail the acceptence of cold, hard logic? One claims X and gets refuted and continues to claim X. That is the very culture of discussion on GAF with hardly any exceptions. Or do you in fact mean that he shouldn't get discouraged by being proven wrong? Because it surely sounds like that and if that's even the moderator supported style here that would be disappointing.

 

[Witchfinder General]

I believe that freedom of speech and expression of one's opinions stops at a certain border, taking advantage of this law to entice anti-semitic and anti-religious ideologies is wrong.
If you are in a Muslim country and you make such statements, the first thing is for you to be deported ( law) or never say it again. What would happen to me if I said that to the pope in the vatican city?

You clearly don't believe in the separation of church and state. In secular countries you have the right to worship as well as the right to question it.

And you're avoiding my questions: Do you believe I have the right to criticise your religion and prophet in my secular country? Do you feel that those who do should be punished?

While I'm at it: Do you wish to see Sharia law replace current law? And if so, why?

 

[CrushDance]

:lol :lol :lol :lol :lol You just don't get my argument do you?

Warrior300: You still haven't answered.

What the majority of people who think they are "Muslim" believe is Islam. Do you agree, disagree?

In your eyes? Sure. In other people's eyes? No.

See, the majority of what people believe = the religion. If the majority of Muslims thinks that women should not have as many rights as men, then that's what "Islam" is.

.

Are you for real? Shouldn't "discussing" entail the acceptence of cold, hard logic? One claims X and gets refuted and continues to claim X. That is the very culture of discussion on GAF with hardly any exceptions. Or do you in fact mean that he shouldn't get discouraged by being proven wrong? Because it surely sounds like that and if that's even the moderator supported style here that would be disappointing.

I see why mods rarely jump into these threads now. Everyone wants them to take sides. -_- Exactly what are you trying to discourage him from? And why? Can he not be free to believe whatsoever that he wishes? I don't go around preaching about God to people I know have no interest.

He proposed a dialogue and we all responded. It wasn't meant to change anyones mind but rather try and get understanding of different ideas and cultures across. Nobodies trying to discourage you from your stance so...

 

[Amir0x]

Are you for real? Shouldn't "discussing" entail the acceptence of cold, hard logic? One claims X and gets refuted and continues to claim X. That is the very culture of discussion on GAF with hardly any exceptions. Or do you in fact mean that he shouldn't get discouraged by being proven wrong? Because it surely sounds like that and if that's even the moderator supported style here that would be disappointing.

Oh no, "cold, hard logic" is fine. You do that. He is merely trying to help people better understand his faith, not try to convert people to islam. That is what I am commending. We could use more of that around here.

 

[Fuzzery]

Man, I have never seen anything like this. Good argument, I feel ashamed of not coming up with the same.



Islam is the direct and literal Word of God in the Qur'an and what was afore mentioned in the Scrolls of Abraham and the Torah and the Gospel right up to the Qur'an. Islam was the only thing all the Prophets(pbuth) taught.

All crushdance did was make a broad generalized appeal to emotion statement that had NOTHING to do with my original statement. Thus, and utterly worthless "argument"

Islam is more than just text in a book. Text needs to INTERPRETED. Interpretations -> policies and law.

 

[CrushDance]

All crushdance did was make a broad generalized appeal to emotion statement that had NOTHING to do with my original statement. Thus, and utterly worthless "argument"

Islam is more than just text in a book. Text needs to INTERPRETED. Interpretations -> policies and law.

Interpretations can vary depending on regions and their history. Look at Canada and the U.S. with our interpretation of the law. Anyway I'm off to bed now. Gotta head to work soon.

 

[Fuzzery]

Sigh, forget it. What was I thinking, responding to this thread/crushdance

 

[AmMortal]

You clearly don't believe in the separation of church and state. In secular countries you have the right to worship as well as the right to question it.

And you're avoiding my questions: Do you believe I have the right to criticise your religion and prophet in my secular country? Do you feel that those who do should be punished?

While I'm at it: Do you wish to see Sharia law replace current law? And if so, why?

Okay, first question:

Do you believe I have the right to criticise your religion and prophet in my secular country?

Whilst I am in your Country, you may not use freedom of speech or expression of one's opinion to entice anti-semitic anti-religious bigotry. Can I go around make a protest and say that the holocaust never happened?

Do you feel that those who do should be punished?

Of course as a human being I long for that, however, what good would it do me if I did?
I'd much rather see them listening and reading the Qur'an instead.

The Prophet taught us that the only way we can defend Islam is by practicing it.

Do you wish to see Sharia law replace current law? And if so, why?

I don't believe that sharia law is to be incorporated in the country im in since I'm British, at the moment we see a lot of "muslim" countries taking the Sharia law out of context, many of the scholars disagree with what the dictatorship states are doing nowadays.

Muslims are considered to be living in their adopted country under a covenant. They must, therefore, comply with the laws of their country of residence without, at the same time, disobeying Islamic Law.

Allah says: “Oh you who believe! Fulfill (your) obligations.” [Sûrah al-Mâ’idah: 1]

He also says: “And fulfill (every) covenant. Verily! The covenant will be questioned about.” [Sûrah al-Isrâ': 34]

He says: “And fulfill the Covenant to Allah when you have covenanted, and break not the oaths after you have confirmed them.” [Sûrah al-Nahl: 91]

Scholars have stated that those who enter non-Muslim countries have to adhere to their respective laws and regulations even if they entered those countries illegally, and they have no excuse for breaking those laws, since they were entrusted to abide by those laws upon entry into those countries.

 

[Ydahs]

You clearly don't believe in the separation of church and state. In secular countries you have the right to worship as well as the right to question it.

And you're avoiding my questions: Do you believe I have the right to criticise your religion and prophet in my secular country? Do you feel that those who do should be punished?

While I'm at it: Do you wish to see Sharia law replace current law? And if so, why?

Islam gives you the right to criticize the religion. It gives you a choice to worship any religion you want!

Fuzzery: What's your argument?

 

[Gig]

:lol You have a link or remember the name? I'd love to watch it.

But that does

I can't answer for that Gig. And it's not something I agree with either, but you have to remember the great flood as well to where something similar happened. There's always casualties in war, even now you have innocent children dying overseas in a war we believe to be right.

Crushdance, do you actually believe that stuff about the great flood?

 

[Gig]

Can I go around make a protest and say that the holocaust never happened?



/QUOTE]

What's wrong with that?

 

[Amir0x]

Gig, your questions are really fucking condescending and disingenuous. If you don't want to participate in this discussion in a meaningful way, instead of just trying to paint everyone's belief as irrational, then please do not bother.

You do not have to believe. The purpose is to help people better understand what Islam is REALLY about, not whether God exists or performed some random miracle that by your eyes cannot possibly be true.

If you have some question about why Islam does a certain thing, or why Islam believes a certain thing... that is fine. Keep your questions in this regard then, do not feign your interest so you may form attacks.

 

[Fuzzery]

Islam gives you the right to criticize the religion. It gives you a choice to worship any religion you want!

Fuzzery: What's your argument?

That what the majority of what people believe Islam to be, IS Islam, for all intents and purposes.

 

[AmMortal]

Gig, your questions are really fucking condescending and disingenuous. If you don't want to participate in this discussion in a meaningful way, instead of just trying to paint everyone's belief as irrational, then please do not bother.

You do not have to believe. The purpose is to help people better understand what Islam is REALLY about, not whether God exists or performed some random miracle that by your eyes cannot possibly be true.

If you have some question about why Islam does a certain thing, or why Islam believes a certain thing... that is fine. Keep your questions in this regard then, do not feign your interest so you may form attacks.

Preach!

 

[Gig]

Gig, your questions are really fucking condescending and disingenuous. If you don't want to participate in this discussion in a meaningful way, instead of just trying to paint everyone's belief as irrational, then please do not bother.

You do not have to believe. The purpose is to help people better understand what Islam is REALLY about, not whether God exists or performed some random miracle that by your eyes cannot possibly be true.

If you have some question about why Islam does a certain thing, or why Islam believes a certain thing... that is fine. Keep your questions in this regard then, do not feign your interest so you may form attacks.

Fine, I will be more considerate and accepting of others beliefs, and will not ask question not pertaining to Islam.

 

[AmMortal]

That what the majority of what people believe Islam to be, IS Islam, for all intents and purposes.

hmm.. Which christianity is, Christianity then I wonder?



These are the churches which arose from the Protestant Reformation in 16th century Europe.

[edit] Pre-Lutheran Protestants

* Hussites
o Moravian Church
o Taborites
o Unity of the Brethren
o Utraquists



* Waldensians
o Waldensian-Methodist Union of Italy
o Waldensian Church of the Rio de la Plata

[edit] Lutheranism

Main articles: Lutheranism and Martin Luther

* Apostolic Lutheran Church of America
* Association of Free Lutheran Congregations
* Church of the Lutheran Brethren of America
* Church of the Lutheran Confession
* Concordia Lutheran Conference
* Confessional Evangelical Lutheran Conference
o Evangelical Lutheran Church "Concord" - Russia
o Evangelical Lutheran Free Church (Germany) - Germany
o Evangelical Lutheran Synod - United States
o Lutheran Church of Central Africa Malawi Conference - Malawi
o Lutheran Church of Central Africa Zambia Conference - Zambia
o Ukrainian Lutheran Church - Ukraine
o Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod - United States
* Evangelical Catholic Church
* Evangelical Community Church-Lutheran
* Evangelical Lutheran Diocese of North America (ELDoNA)
* International Lutheran Council
o American Association of Lutheran Churches (AALC)
o Evangelical Lutheran Church—Synod of France and Belgium
o Evangelical Lutheran Church of Brazil
o Evangelical Lutheran Church of England
o Gutnius Lutheran Church
o Independent Evangelical—Lutheran Church
o Japan Lutheran Church
o Lanka Lutheran Church
o Lutheran Church - Canada



*
o Lutheran Church—Hong Kong Synod
o Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod
o Lutheran Church of Australia (associate member)
* Laestadian Lutheran Church
* Lutheran Congregations in Mission for Christ - USA
* Latvian Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
* Lutheran Ministerium and Synod - USA
* The Lutheran Evangelical Protestant Church (GCEPC) -USA
* Lutheran World Federation
o Church of Denmark (Evangelical Lutheran Church in Denmark)
o National Church of Iceland (Evangelical Lutheran Church of Iceland)
o Church of Norway (Evangelical Lutheran Church of Norway)
o Church of Sweden
o Estonian Evangelical Lutheran Church
o Evangelical Church of the Augsburg Confession in Slovakia
o Evangelical Lutheran Free Church of Norway (Associate member)
o Evangelical Lutheran Church in America
o Evangelical Lutheran Church in Canada
o Evangelical Lutheran Church of Papua New Guinea
o Evangelical Lutheran Church in Southern Africa
o Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland
o Evangelical Lutheran Church of Latvia
o Evangelical Lutheran Church in Tanzania
o Lutheran Church of Australia (associate member)

[edit] Reformed Churches

Main article: Reformed Churches
See also: Calvinism and First Great Awakening

* World Alliance of Reformed Churches

[edit] Presbyterianism

Main article: Presbyterianism
See also: Presbyterian polity

* Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church
* Bible Presbyterian Church
* Christ Community Church
* Church of Scotland
* Confederation of Reformed Evangelical Churches
* Cumberland Presbyterian Church
* Evangelical Presbyterian Church
* Evangelical Presbyterian Church in England and Wales
* Evangelical Presbyterian Church (Australia)
* Free Church of Scotland
* Free Church of Scotland (Continuing)
* Free Presbyterian Church of Scotland
* Free Presbyterian Church of Ulster
* Free Presbyterian Church (Australia)
* Orthodox Presbyterian Church
* Presbyterian Church in America
* Presbyterian Church of Aotearoa New Zealand
* Presbyterian Church of Australia



* Presbyterian Church in Canada
* Presbyterian Church of Eastern Australia
* Presbyterian Church in Ireland
* Presbyterian Church of Korea
* Presbyterian Church in Taiwan
* Presbyterian Church of Wales
* Presbyterian Church (USA)
* Presbyterian Reformed Church (Canada)
* Presbyterian Reformed Church (Australia)
* Reformed Church of France
* Reformed Presbyterian Church of Australia
* Reformed Presbyterian Church General Assembly
* Reformed Presbyterian Church of North America
* Southern Presbyterian Church (Australia)
* Upper Cumberland Presbyterian Church
* The United Church of Canada
* United Free Church of Scotland
* Westminster Presbyterian Church of Australia

[edit] Congregationalist Churches

Main article: Congregational Church

* Canadian and American Reformed Churches
* Christian Reformed Church in North America
* Christian Reformed Churches of Australia
* Confederation of Reformed Evangelical Churches
* Congregational Federation of Australia
* Dutch Reformed Church
* English Independents - Merged into various groups.
* Federation of Swiss Protestant Churches
* Fellowship of Congregational Churches (Australia)
* Free Reformed Churches of North America
* Heritage Reformed Congregations
* Huguenots (virtually extinct as a modern and distinct group)



* National Association of Congregational Christian Churches
* Netherlands Reformed Congregations
* Orthodox Christian Reformed Church
* Protestant Reformed Churches in America
* Reformed Church in America
* Reformed Church in Hungary
* Reformed Church in the United States
* Remonstrant Brotherhood
* The United Church of Canada
* United Church of Christ
* United Congregational Church of Southern Africa
* United Reformed Churches in North America

[edit] Anabaptists

Main article: Anabaptists
See also: Radical Reformation and Theology of Anabaptism

* Abecedarians (extinct)
* Amish
o Beachy Amish
o Nebraska Amish
o Old Order Amish
o Swartzendruber Amish
* Apostolic Christian Church
* Hutterites
o Bruderhof Communities
* Brethren in Christ
* Mennonites
o Alliance of Mennonite Evangelical Congregations
o Chortitzer Mennonite Conference
o Church of God in Christ, Mennonite (Holdeman Mennonites)
o Conservative Mennonite Conference
o Evangelical Mennonite Church
o Evangelical Mennonite Conference



*
o Evangelical Mennonite Mission Conference
o Evangelical Missionary Church
o Fellowship of Evangelical Bible Churches (formerly Evangelical Mennonite Brethren)
o Mennonite Brethren Churches
+ Canadian Conference of Mennonite Brethren Churches
+ Japan Mennonite Brethren Conference
+ US Conference of Mennonite Brethren Churches
o Mennonite Church Canada
+ General Conference Mennonite Church (merged)
o Mennonite Church in the Netherlands
o Mennonite Church USA
+ General Conference Mennonite Church (merged)
o Missionary Church
o Old Order Mennonites
o Swiss Mennonite Conference

[edit] Methodists

Main article: Methodism

* African Methodist Episcopal Church
* African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church
* Christian Methodist Episcopal Church (Dallas, TX)
* Congregational Methodist Church
* Church of North India
* Church of Pakistan
* Church of South India
* Church of the Nazarene
* Evangelical Church
* Evangelical Church of the Dominican Republic
* Evangelical Methodist Church
* The Evangelical Church (Spain)
* First Congregational Methodist Church
* The Free Methodist Church (North America)
* Free Wesleyan Church (Tonga)



* Fundamental Methodist Conference, Inc.
* Methodist Church in Ireland
* Methodist Church in Singapore
* Methodist Church of Fiji and Rotuma
* Methodist Church of Great Britain
* Methodist Church of Malaysia
* Methodist Church of New Zealand
* Methodist Church of Southern Africa
* Primitive Methodist Church
* The United Church of Canada
* United Methodist Church
* Uniting Church in Australia
* The Wesleyan Church (Indianapolis, IN)
* Wesleyan Reform Union

[edit] Pietists and Holiness Churches

Main articles: Pietism and Holiness movement
See also: Higher Life movement, Holiness Tabernacles, and Third Great Awakening

* Bible Fellowship Church
* Christian Baptist Church of God
* Church of Christ (Holiness) U.S.A.
* Church of God (Anderson)
* Church of God (Guthrie, Oklahoma)
* Church of God (Holiness)
* Church of God (Restoration)



* Churches of God General Conference (Winebrenner)
* Church of the Nazarene
* Harmony Society
* Missionary Church
* United Christian Church
* Wesleyan Church

[edit] Baptists

Main article: Baptists
See also: Baptist beliefs and List of Baptist Confessions

Note: All Baptist associations are congregationalist affiliations for the purpose of cooperation, in which each local church is governmentally independent.

Further information: List of Baptist sub-denominations

* Alliance of Baptists
* American Baptist Association
* American Baptist Churches USA
* Association of Baptist Churches in Ireland
* Association of Grace Baptist Churches
* Association of Reformed Baptist Churches of America
* Association of Regular Baptist Churches
* Baptist Bible Fellowship International
* Baptist Conference of the Philippines
* Baptist Convention of Ontario and Quebec
* Baptist Convention of Western Cuba
* Baptist General Conference (formally Swedish Baptist General Conference)
* Baptist General Conference of Canada
* Baptist General Convention of Texas
* Baptist Missionary Association of America
* Baptist Union of Australia
* Baptist Union of Great Britain
* Baptist Union of New Zealand
* Baptist Union of Scotland
* Baptist Union of Western Canada
* Baptist World Alliance
* Bible Baptist
* Black Primitive Baptists
* Canadian Baptist Ministries
* Canadian Convention of Southern Baptists
* Central Baptist Association
* Central Canada Baptist Conference
* Christian Unity Baptist Association
* Conservative Baptist Association
* Conservative Baptist Association of America
* Continental Baptist Churches
* Convención Nacional Bautista de Mexico
* Convention of Atlantic Baptist Churches
* Cooperative Baptist Fellowship
* European Baptist Convention
* European Baptist Federation
* Evangelical Baptist Mission of South Haiti
* Evangelical Free Baptist Church
* Fellowship of Evangelical Baptist Churches in Canada
* Free Will Baptist Church
* Fundamental Baptist Fellowship of America
* General Association of Baptists
* General Association of General Baptists
* General Association of Regular Baptist Churches
* General Conference of the Evangelical Baptist Church, Inc.
* General Six-Principle Baptists
* Grace Baptist Assembly



* Independent Baptists
* Independent Baptist Church of America
* Independent Baptist Fellowship International
* Independent Baptist Fellowship of North America
* Interstate & Foreign Landmark Missionary Baptist Association
* Landmark Baptist Church
* Liberty Baptist Fellowship
* Myanmar Baptist Convention
* National Association of Free Will Baptists
* National Baptist Convention of America, Inc.
* National Baptist Convention, USA, Inc.
* National Baptist Evangelical Life and Soul Saving Assembly of the U.S.A.
* National Missionary Baptist Convention of America
* National Primitive Baptist Convention of the U.S.A.
* New England Evangelical Baptist Fellowship
* New Testament Association of Independent Baptist Churches
* Nigerian Baptist Convention
* North American Baptist Conference
* Norwegian Baptist Union
* Old Baptist Union
* Old Regular Baptists
* Old Time Missionary Baptists
* Primitive Baptists
* Progressive Baptists
* Progressive National Baptist Convention
* Reformed Baptists
* Regular Baptist Churches, General Association of
* Regular Baptists
* Separate Baptists
* Separate Baptists in Christ
* Seventh Day Baptists
* Southeast Conservative Baptists
* Southern Baptist Convention
* Southern Baptists of Texas
* Sovereign Grace Baptists
* Strict Baptists
* Two-Seed-in-the-Spirit Predestinarian Baptists
* Union d'Églises baptistes françaises au Canada
* United American Free Will Baptist Church
* United American Free Will Baptist Conference
* United Baptist Convention of the Atlantic Provinces
* United Baptists
* United Free Will Baptist
* Unregistered Baptist Fellowship
* World Baptist Alliance
* World Baptist Fellowship

[edit] Spiritual Baptists

Note: The Spiritual Baptist Archdiocese of New York, Inc has congregationalist affiliations for the purpose of cooperation, in which each local church is governmentally independent.

* The Spiritual Baptist Archdiocese of New York, Inc.

[edit] Brethren

Main article: Brethren

* Church of the United Brethren in Christ
* Plymouth Brethren
o Open Brethren
o Exclusive Brethren
o Indian Brethren
o Kerala Brethren
* River Brethren
o Brethren in Christ Church
o Old Order River Brethren
o United Zion Church



* Schwarzenau Brethren
o Church of the Brethren
o Conservative Grace Brethren Churches, International
o Dunkard Brethren
o Ephrata Cloister
o Fellowship of Grace Brethren Churches
o Old German Baptist Brethren
o Old Order German Baptist Brethren
o The Brethren Church (Ashland Brethren)
* Social Brethren

[edit] Apostolic Churches - Irvingites

* Catholic Apostolic Church
o Restored Apostolic Mission Church
o Old Apostolic Church
o New Apostolic Church
+ United Apostolic Church

[edit] Pentecostalism

Main article: Pentecostalism

* Apostolic Assemblies of Christ
* Apostolic Faith Church
* Apostolic Faith Mission of South Africa
* Assemblies of God
o Assembleias de Deus
o Assemblies of God in New Zealand
o Assemblies of God in the United Kingdom
o Assemblies of God in Vietnam
o Australian Christian Churches
o General Council of the Assemblies of God of the United States
o Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada
* AFFCMI - Australian Fellowship of Faith Churches and Ministers Int.
* Bible-Pattern Church Fellowship
* Calvary Holiness Association
* Charismatic Church of God
* Charismatic Episcopal Church
* Communion of Evangelical Episcopal Churches
* Christian City Churches
* Christ Gospel Churches International
* Christian Church of North America
* Christian Congregation of Brazil
* Christian Outreach Centre
* Christian Revival Crusade
* Church of God (Charleston, Tennessee)
* Church of God (Chattanooga)
* Church of God (Cleveland)
* Church of God (Huntsville, Alabama)
* The Church of God (Jerusalem Acres)
* The Church of God for All Nations
* Church of God by Faith
* Church of God, House of Prayer
* Church of God in Christ
* Church of God Mountain Assembly
* Church of God of Prophecy
* Church of God of the Original Mountain Assembly
* Church of God with Signs Following



* Church of God of the Union Assembly
* Church of the Little Children of Jesus Christ
* Congregational Holiness Church
* CRC Churches International
* Destiny Church
* Elim Fellowship
* Elim Pentecostal Church
* Fire Baptized Holiness Church of God of the Americas
* Free Apostolic Church of Pentecost
* God is Love Pentecostal Church
* Holiness Baptist Association
* House of Prayer Christian Church
* India Pentecostal Church of God
* Independent Assemblies of God, International
* International Church of the Foursquare Gospel
* International Pentecostal Church of Christ
* International Pentecostal Holiness Church
* New Life Churches
* New Testament Christian Churches of America, Inc
* Open Bible Standard Churches (association of autonomous churches)
* Pentecostal Assemblies of Canada
* Pentecostal Assemblies of the World
* Pentecostal Church of God
* Pentecostal Free Will Baptist Church
* Pentecostal/Charismatic Churches of North America
* Pentecostal World Conference
* Potter's House Christian Fellowship
* Redeemed Christian Church of God
* Revival Centres International
* The Church of God (Jerusalem Acres)
* The Church of God for All Nations
* The Fellowship (FGFCMI)
* The Pentecostal Mission
* The Revival Fellowship
* United Gospel Tabernacles
* United Holy Church of America
* United Pentecostal Church International

 

[Prine]

People like to hate on muslims now, for the ignorant there is no difference between a normal muslim and a terrorist muslim. If it not muslims its the jews, if its not the jews its russians, blacks and so on.


To the OP you are wasting your time, there is no will to learn or understand, just blind hate. Unless their is a major shock in the way they think or are exposed firsthand to islam/muslims nothings ever going to change. All you are going to get is a collection of wild questions to try to catch you out.

Dont bother, let them think how they want to, they are not going to listen, because there is not need to listen. If the majority of your circle behave like you, why would you think you are wrong?

 

[Fuzzery]

Sure, it's clear that a lot of people believe Islam to be a lot of different things, but you haven't answered my argument yet.

Obviously most of them agree on a few central things. Are these central things the only things can be considered "Islam," while all the other stuff is just opinion?

 

[AmMortal]

People like to hate on muslims now, for the ignorant there is no difference between a normal muslim and a terrorist muslim. If it not muslims its the jews, if its not the jews its russians, blacks and so on.


To the OP you are wasting your time, there is no will to learn or understand, just blind hate. Unless their is a major shock in the way they think or are exposed firsthand to islam/muslims nothings ever going to change. All you are going to get is a collection of wild questions to try to catch you out.

Dont bother, let them think how they want to, they are not going to listen.

I appreciate what you are saying, I know that there are the selfish individuals who only seek trolling, but I made this thread in the hope that there might be someone with interesting and considerate questions and queries.

 

[AmMortal]

Sure, it's clear that a lot of people believe Islam to be a lot of different things, but you haven't answered my argument yet.

Obviously most of them agree on a few central things. Are these central things the only things can be considered "Islam," while all the other stuff is just opinion?

Do you understand that deliberate actions are taken to take the Qur'an out of context? Have you ever read the verse that Osama Bin Laden uses to take up arms ? Hestarts reading them the verses:

002.190 Fight in the cause of God those who fight you, ( he-stops there and skips this )but do not transgress limits; for God loveth not transgressors.

002.191 And slay them wherever ye catch them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out; for tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter; but fight them not at the Sacred Mosque, unless they (first) fight you there; but if they fight you, slay them. Such is the reward of those who suppress faith.

( he doesn't even mention this)
002.192 But if they cease, God is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

he takes it OUT OF CONTEXT FOR HIS OWN GAIN.

Islam is the whole of it or non.

 

[Fuzzery]

Answer my question. You are clearly being disingenuous to debate.

 

[AmMortal]

Answer my question. You are clearly being disingenuous to debate.

islam is taking the Qur'an literal the way it was revealed in Arabic and aplying what the Prophet did as an example.

One more and I consider you a troll.

 

[HocusPocus]

Where's the official Christian Thread? That religion is bashed 10 fold more than Islam here, and heck it's Easter to boot.

 

[Amir0x]

Where's the official Christian Thread? That religion is bashed 10 fold more than Islam here, and heck it's Easter to boot.

go... make one?

 

[AmMortal]

Where's the official Christian Thread? That religion is bashed 10 fold more than Islam here, and heck it's Easter to boot.

make one Id' like to see it.

 

[HotByCold]

I have a little question for warrior300, or any other knowledgeable muslim.
Are women forced to cover up their beautiful traits or is it just what's advised in the Qu'ran?
And I'm just talking about what the Qu'ran outright says, not what some later prophets,Imans or whatever interpreted parts of the Qu'ran thought.

 

[Gig]

I appreciate what you are saying, I know that there are the selfish individuals who only seek trolling, but I made this thread in the hope that there might be someone with interesting and considerate questions and queries.

I think we have gotten off on the wrong foot Warrior300. I certainly don't hate muslims or people of any other religion, in fact my life over the past few years has been about love and forgiveness. It's just as a diehard atheist it is hard for me to understand where your coming from and to comphend your beliefs. I am truly sorry if I offended you in any way.

 

[Fuzzery]

islam is taking the Qur'an literal the way it was revealed in Arabic and aplying what the Prophet did as an example.

One more and I consider you a troll.

Oh man, you're accusing me of trolling? You're the troll here :lol :lol

Okay, if it's meant to be totally literal, then how much is "transgression" for example? How about all the other millions of things in the Qu'ran that have somewhat loose interpretations?

Why are there so many schools of thought in Islam if only the literal one was valid and everyone believed it to be the only "correct" one? Are they all wrong?

 

[HotByCold]

islam is taking the Qur'an literal the way it was revealed in Arabic and aplying what the Prophet did as an example.

One more and I consider you a troll.

Do you have to follow the things Muhammed, may God bless him(did I do that right?), did and which were not written in the Qu'ran and if so does the Qu'ran itself state that?

 

[AmMortal]

I have a little question for warrior300, or any other knowledgeable muslim.
Are women forced to cover up their beautiful traits or is it just what's advised in the Qu'ran?
And I'm just talking about what the Qu'ran outright says, not what some later prophets,Imans or whatever interpreted parts of the Qu'ran thought.

I like you, I personally don't like to hear what certain imams said or did, only the prophet and the Qur'an should be followed

The Qur'an says exactly this:

"Say to the believing man that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; that will make for greater purity for them; and Allah is well acquainted with all that they do. And say to the believing women that they should lower their gaze and guard their modesty; and that they should not display their beauty and ornaments except what must ordinarily appear thereof; that they should draw their veils over their bosoms and not display their beauty except to their husbands..." (Qur'an 24:30-31)


Many people think that women wearing the Hijab must be forced to wear it. However, in Islam there is no compulsion to do anything. It is up to the believing person to obey or disobey the commandment of Allah (SWT) and both men and women are equal as far as their relationship to Allah is concerned.

 

[AmMortal]

Do you have to follow the things Muhammed, may God bless him(did I do that right?), did and which were not written in the Qu'ran and if so does the Qu'ran itself state that?

Yeah, you did it right ( sorry for the earlier comment)
Think of the Qur'an as the Instruction manual and the Prophet as the walking Qur'an, in other words he is how Qur'an should be interpreted and implemented.


Everything he did was according to what the Qur'an said.

 

[Amir0x]

Oh man, you're accusing me of trolling? You're the troll here :lol :lol

Okay, if it's meant to be totally literal, then how much is "transgression" for example? How about all the other millions of things in the Qu'ran that have somewhat loose interpretations?

Why are there so many schools of thought in Islam if only the literal one was valid and everyone believed it to be the only "correct" one? Are they all wrong?

Wait, now I'm not Islamic here, but do you really need the bold answered for you?

No matter WHAT a large group of people interpret something to be in any religion, there is going to be a large section that believes that interpretation is wrong and does something else. That's every major religion. I don't know why you're stuck on that concept.

There's no way to tell which interpretation is inherently correct with God himself coming down to say so, but I personally can hazard a guess based on which brings more good to this world. I'm going to go with Warrior300's interpretation.

 

[abandonHope]

thanks for clearing alot of stuff. I'll never understand why people condemn something before understanding it.

However things would be alot easier if less Islamic people and high ranking religious people support terrorism. maybe only a few bad apples spoils everything, but even 1% supporting terrorism is too high.

Its kinda scary when i hear Islamic people talking about us infidel.

 

[Fuzzery]

Wait, now I'm not Islamic here, but do you really need the bold answered for you?

No matter WHAT a large group of people interpret something to be in any religion, there is going to be a large section that believes that interpretation is wrong and does something else. That's every major religion. I don't know why you're stuck on that concept.

There's no way to tell which interpretation is inherently correct with God himself coming down to say so, but I personally can hazard a guess based on which brings more good to this world. I'm going to go with Warrior300's interpretation.

First of all, it was a rhetorical question meant to blow apart his view that only the literal interpretation of the Qur'an is the "real islam." How you could miss that? I don't know.

Second of all, I'm not talking about extremists or terrorists here. In fact, I never even mentioned them. warrior300 did. I'm talking about nations claiming that their laws/policies, Sharia law for example, are in line with Islam. Then people like warrior300 come along, claiming that "That really isn't Islam. Don't judge Islam because of these policies" That's YOUR OPINION that it really isn't Islam. But if a large number of people believe that it is, and it's not just limited to extremists, then why isn't it?

 

[Amir0x]

First of all, it was a rhetorical question meant to blow apart his view that only the literal interpretation of the Qur'an is the "real islam." How you could miss that? I don't know.

But it's a false start. EVERYONE will believe their view of religion is the "right" view. He can only point to scripture to show why he believes that, and he HAS.

Second of all, I'm not talking about extremists or terrorists here. In fact, I never even mentioned them. warrior300 did. I'm talking about nations claiming that their laws/policies, Sharia law for example, are in line with Islam. Then people like warrior300 come along, claiming that "That really isn't Islam." That's YOUR OPINION that it really isn't Islam, warrior300.

In the end, everything is opinion. There is no fact in religion, save that some places existed and some events might have happened. Everything is open to interpretation.

Seems like a pretty pointless path to go down. He's been explaining damn well why he thinks this is the REAL Islam, with scripture.

 

[AmMortal]

thanks for clearing alot of stuff. I'll never understand why people condemn something before understanding it.

However things would be alot easier if less Islamic people and high ranking religious people support terrorism. maybe only a few bad apples spoils everything, but even 1% supporting terrorism is too high.

Its kinda scary when I hear Islamic people talking about us infidel.

Don't be scared,they are doing wrong, you can't just say people are infidels, what we as muslims should try to do is to clarify what Islam actually is and then let people make up there own minds, fortunately for us we are past the age of killing minorities with different ideas as so every one can practice the religion . Freedom to practice the religion was the only thing Muslims fought for in the early days of the prophet.

You wanna know why islam is the most peaceful religion?

In the begining Allah didn't allow the muslims to even defend themselves when they got killed and stoned. That is real patience. Later on when it was clear that these people wouldn't stop persecution. Allah allowed them to defend and only defend themselves.

 

[Fuzzery]

But it's a false start. EVERYONE will believe their view of religion is the "right" view. He can only point to scripture to show why he believes that, and he HAS.



In the end, everything is opinion. There is no fact in religion, save that some places existed and some events might have happened. Everything is open to interpretation.

Seems like a pretty pointless path to go down. He's been explaining damn well why he thinks this is the REAL Islam, with scripture.

So you agree that everything in religion is opinion and not fact. Good.
Then you should agree that the major "Islams," or the major OPINIONS of what Islam is that are prevalent in the world today, IS for all intents and purposes what "Islam" is. Thus, if a majority of muslims in the middle east believe "Islam" instructs them to oppress women, THEN "ISLAM" SHOULD BE JUDGED THUSLY.

PS: There are millions of other muslims who can rebutt his points using scripture as well. In fact, there are a lot of muslims on GAF who would disagree vehemently with his views.

 

[AmMortal]

Oh man, you're accusing me of trolling? You're the troll here :lol :lol

Okay, if it's meant to be totally literal, then how much is "transgression" for example? How about all the other millions of things in the Qu'ran that have somewhat loose interpretations?

Why are there so many schools of thought in Islam if only the literal one was valid and everyone believed it to be the only "correct" one? Are they all wrong?

The four different schools of though are as follows:

The Hanafi Madhhab:
The Maliki Madhhab:
The Shafi'i Madhhab
The Hanbali Madhhab

All of them are Muslim, which means that all of them do the same things and believe exactly the same.

The differences come into small situations were fatwa are to be handed on something for instance the view on masturbation. Some hold it permissible others think that its not allowed at all and others seek to moderate and say that its okay in some circumstances.

 

[Ydahs]

That what the majority of what people believe Islam to be, IS Islam, for all intents and purposes.

Some might want to follow Islam how people around them are following it (families, friends, etc.) but others might want to follow it by reading the scriptures on their own, like warrior300.

I believe that the majority of what people believe Islam to be doesn't necessarily mean that it's Islam, because it might be wrong and against the teachings of Islam.

I don't really know how to answer your argument, but I tried! I'm only sixteen and I'm still learning about Islam so give me a break

 

[Mad Hatter]

Hehehe, this thread reminded me of this scene (13th warrior)
Ahmed Ibn Fahdlan: I can taste neither the fermentation of grape nor of wheat.
Herger the Joyous: [laughs] Honey...It's made from honey!

Actually, now that I think about it, is drinking mead okay?

 

[AmMortal]

So you agree that everything in religion is opinion and not fact. Good.
Then you agree that the major "Islams," or the major OPINIONS of what Islam is that are prevalent in the world today, IS for all intents and purposes what "Islam" is. Thus, if a majority of muslims in the middle east believe "Islam" instructs them to oppress women, THEN "ISLAM" SHOULD BE JUDGED THUSLY.

PS: There are millions of other muslims who can rebutt his points using scripture as well. In fact, there are a lot of muslims on GAF who would disagree vehemently with his views.

I don't know where you got the Idea that Islam is "Middle eastern" only 19% of all muslims are arab.

Secondly, hmm. I just showed you how people take the Qur'an out of context such as Bin Laden, yet you seem to just skip that whole post.

Care to show me anyone of these muslims on GAF?