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[UntoldDreams]

http://boardsus.playstation.com/pla...&thread.id=7613&view=by_date_ascending&page=5

Holy Crap its real.

RemotePlay can do Lair although not all functions are mapped since the SIXAXIS motion steering is now the ANALOG Nub.

The lack of L2/R2 is the issue with landing...

 

[Drinky Crow]

i could beat the karate kid for the nes when i was 12 -- fuck, i could do some amazing shit in that game -- but that doesn't stop it from being a terribly-designed piece of pap with shitty controls and mechanics.

 

[UntoldDreams]

http://n4g.com/ps3/News-64811.aspx

Confirmed: Lair can be played on PSP (Video Included)

jodonn08 - contributor
Published: 16 hours ago | Video | PlayStation 3
Info Report
63
No, this is not a joke. Lair can be played on PSP through PS3's Remote Play functionality. As discovered by Dubbedinenglish on the PlayStation forums, this is quite possibly the first Blu-ray PS3 game to run successfully on the PSP. By reducing the visual quality and increasing the response time, the game is actually quite playable. In fact, because the game uses the PSP's analog stick instead of tilt controls, it actually controls better than the PS3 counterpart.

 

[chubigans]

http://n4g.com/ps3/News-64811.aspx

Confirmed: Lair can be played on PSP (Video Included)

jodonn08 - contributor
Published: 16 hours ago | Video | PlayStation 3
Info Report
63
No, this is not a joke. Lair can be played on PSP through PS3's Remote Play functionality. As discovered by Dubbedinenglish on the PlayStation forums, this is quite possibly the first Blu-ray PS3 game to run successfully on the PSP. By reducing the visual quality and increasing the response time, the game is actually quite playable. In fact, because the game uses the PSP's analog stick instead of tilt controls, it actually controls better than the PS3 counterpart.

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=186459

It is indeed awesome.

 

[JB1981]

http://n4g.com/ps3/News-64811.aspx

Confirmed: Lair can be played on PSP (Video Included)

jodonn08 - contributor
Published: 16 hours ago | Video | PlayStation 3
Info Report
63
No, this is not a joke. Lair can be played on PSP through PS3's Remote Play functionality. As discovered by Dubbedinenglish on the PlayStation forums, this is quite possibly the first Blu-ray PS3 game to run successfully on the PSP. By reducing the visual quality and increasing the response time, the game is actually quite playable. In fact, because the game uses the PSP's analog stick instead of tilt controls, it actually controls better than the PS3 counterpart.

That is honestly one of the coolest things ever. Hopefully it becomes a very common feature of most PS3 games.

 

[mysticstylez]

I played a little bit of Lair, and it still needed more time in the oven. It runs like shit, I got a headache at one point it was so bad. Also the lock-on is craptacular, you'll go to target one thing and it locks on to something not even close. Plus the controls are just out of wack, I seemed to control the dragon better when I was just flailing around like a goof.


I know other people have probably said the same things, so I know I'm beating a dead horse it's just funny seeing people try to rationalize the crappy controls, and total lack of polish on the game.

 

[mysticstylez]

That is honestly one of the coolest things ever. Hopefully it becomes a very common feature of most PS3 games.

I can see it now on the back of the Blu-Ray cases. "For a better gameplay experience use your PSP instead"

 

[Belfast]

I played a little bit of Lair, and it still needed more time in the oven. It runs like shit, I got a headache at one point it was so bad. Also the lock-on is craptacular, you'll go to target one thing and it locks on to something not even close. Plus the controls are just out of wack, I seemed to control the dragon better when I was just flailing around like a goof.


I know other people have probably said the same things, so I know I'm beating a dead horse it's just funny seeing people try to rationalize the crappy controls, and total lack of polish on the game.

I don't think anyone's tried to rationalize the lack of polish.

 

[kaching]

I've never been particularly good at fighting games. Whether it's Street Fighter or Virtua Fighter, Mortal Kombat or Tekken I can't pull off moves or combos with consistency. Sure, I've seen other players perform these moves without a problem, but if I and others like me can't do it, then the controls must be flawed. I've been silent on this issue for years but Lair reviewers have shown me the error of my ways and I now know that I can dock 4-5 pts from the rating for any of these games because they all have crap controls, and I know thanks to Drinky that I can just chant "cognitive dissonance" without justification if anyone should disagree with me.

 

[Drinky Crow]

you can button-mash sf or vf and still have a good time. you can still win in casual company just with simple button presses -- no need for advanced moves. assuming your analogy is correct -- and it isn't -- lair doesn't have any simple beginning moves, just advanced ones. wtf!

 

[Pachinko]

My mini review

Just a link to my review from earlier, I've cleaned it up a bit if anyone wishes to reread it or perhaps missed it.

 

[kaching]

lair doesn't have any simple beginning moves, just advanced ones. wtf!

Drinky's gaming reflexes severely atrophying in his old age confirmed

 

[patsu]

the folks that believe they should be unresponsive and cumbersome because LOL THAT'S WHAT RIDING A REAL DRAGON IS LIKE are batshit fucking nuts and are also possibly furries.

No offense but my dragon controls very well... like flOw. I can turn 180 degree almost every time, exactly where and when I want it. I can also fly pretty freely. It is one of the best experiences in the game.

The only thing I don't like is the dragon bumping (which you can choose not to use).

The target takes some getting used to because it targets the nearest creature, including those behind you. So it's possible that when you press L1/R1, the dragon swings around and attack something else instead.

 

[AzerPhire]

I just finished the game and I would rate it overall a 7 and at best a 7.5

Now I do own a 360, Wii and Ps3 and I have never favored motion controls on any system or any game but with Lair there is a degree of difficulty as you cannot spaze out while doing the motions. You need to be precise and smooth and only once or twice did I have some trouble performing moves. I think this is where most people struggle as the dragon isn't very manuverable and doesn't respond quickly to fast movements. The only motion controls I didn't like were the oens where you had to shake the controller up and down really fast, they didn't really fit well in the game.

Where I will say the game mostly faultered was in the lock on which only needed the ability to cycle targets and in the misison objectives. Way too often you have 3 or 4 objectives being thrown at you and there isn't enough time to complete them all and so you fail the mission.

Like you have heard before the presentation (Art, sound, music, graphics) is top notch and the game looked amazing at 1080p. There were instances were the frame rate would drop to the low 20s but they didn't ruin the experience.

So overall it was a fun game that looked and sounded amazing and would have better received had they included an alternative control scheme.

 

[Byakuya769]

I don't know... maybe I haven't played the game long enough to have these "problems" that others are having. Whenever I play I simply line my dragon up to my target until the white targeting halo is on it, then if I need to get a better bearing I will then use lock-on.. not too difficult. GTA wasn't docked so many points for its horrible shooting mechanics.

 

[Drinky Crow]

Drinky's gaming reflexes severely atrophying in his old age confirmed

yet i still play a mean game of vf5, and can clear ibara in three credits. wtf!

 

[patsu]

I just finished the game and I would rate it overall a 7 and at best a 7.5

Now I do own a 360, Wii and Ps3 and I have never favored motion controls on any system or any game but with Lair there is a degree of difficulty as you cannot spaze out while doing the motions. You need to be precise and smooth and only once or twice did I have some trouble performing moves. I think this is where most people struggle as the dragon isn't very manuverable and doesn't respond quickly to fast movements. The only motion controls I didn't like were the oens where you had to shake the controller up and down really fast, they didn't really fit well in the game.

Where I will say the game mostly faultered was in the lock on which only needed the ability to cycle targets and in the misison objectives. Way too often you have 3 or 4 objectives being thrown at you and there isn't enough time to complete them all and so you fail the mission.

Like you have heard before the presentation (Art, sound, music, graphics) is top notch and the game looked amazing at 1080p. There were instances were the frame rate would drop to the low 20s but they didn't ruin the experience.

So overall it was a fun game that looked and sounded amazing and would have better received had they included an alternative control scheme.

My experience is similar to his. I give it a 7 so far. I also noticed that you need to play with SIXAXIS levelled for some of the gesture to work (i.e., the orientation is absolute rather than relative). If you start with a levelled SIXAXIS, flipping it upwards will turn the dragon around immediately. If you always point the dragon downwards, your dragon will always fly low and flipping upwards is not as responsive.

 

[Belfast]

you can button-mash sf or vf and still have a good time. you can still win in casual company just with simple button presses -- no need for advanced moves. assuming your analogy is correct -- and it isn't -- lair doesn't have any simple beginning moves, just advanced ones. wtf!

It doesn't get much more simple than square to shoot. :lol

 

[nofi]

the folks that believe they should be unresponsive and cumbersome because LOL THAT'S WHAT RIDING A REAL DRAGON IS LIKE are batshit fucking nuts and are also possibly furries.

wanna play?

 

[mysticstylez]

No offense but my dragon controls very well... like flOw. I can turn 180 degree almost every time, exactly where and when I want it. I can also fly pretty freely. It is one of the best experiences in the game.

The only thing I don't like is the dragon bumping (which you can choose not to use).

The target takes some getting used to because it targets the nearest creature, including those behind you. So it's possible that when you press L1/R1, the dragon swings around and attack something else instead.

So the dragon has eyes behind its head?

 

[patsu]

No one knows what dragons can do
The camera shows the rider's view anyway.

It's quite often to have another enemy firing at you from behind. If the dragon is taking damage, it's good to get rid of the pursuing enemy. In any case, turning 180 degree is as easy as a flip of the wrist. So once the guy behind is dead, it's easy to turn around again.

What's distracting is the intermittent cut scenes. F5 really made a big boo boo with that one.

 

[kaching]

yet i still play a mean game of vf5, and can clear ibara in three credits. wtf!

Just because you're a savant at certain games, doesn't mean you'll be a master of all. Learned reflexes are also certainly the last to go. Old dog, new tricks - you know the deal.

 

[Doc Evils]

Since I wouldn't mind motion control game and sorta enjoyed it in the folklore demo, would you say I should buy it?

I'm a Panzer dragoon fan.

 

[Maggot9]

I just rented this game. I'm on the infamous bridge level. It's kinda meh right now. For me personally the only redeeming quality is the music. IGN was right when they said that the moment you need precision in your controls, you're fucked. High up in the sky, it's pretty easy to control the dragon, but get in combat or try to land on a narrow passage and it all goes to shit.

The voice acting really gets to me too, don't know why. As somebody else said the intermittent cutscenes are atrocious. You play for a minute, then watch a cutscene, then play for another minute then watch another cutscene. It's ridiculous.

Also, the game DOES run like ass. And graphically, it isn't impressive at all. Technically maybe, (and even that's a stretch. if they had everything in this game running at a decent frame rate, THEN maybe, but they dont).

I realize I'm just reiterating what a lot of people here have said, but most of the stuff is true. However I do plan to finish it.

Rent before buy.

 

[Valkyr Junkie]

Has anyone beaten the game yet? I'm on the second-to-last level (Maelstrom prison) and I'm stumped on what to attack in what order to avoid being raped.

 

[kaching]

Since I wouldn't mind motion control game and sorta enjoyed it in the folklore demo, would you say I should buy it?

I'm a Panzer dragoon fan.

Assuming you're okay with the motion controls, unlike some, the game still has issues. I enjoyed playing through it, but I wouldn't recommend it at full price.

Has anyone beaten the game yet? I'm on the second-to-last level (Maelstrom prison) and I'm stumped on what to attack in what order to avoid being raped.

You have to knock out 3 generators orbiting the main base and 2 cannons on the base itself (shaped like giant kegs that shoot the ice/rock shot at you) Each of the generators has 3 ballistae surrounding. I go for the cannons first since they're the most lethal. Get close enough to them to lock on with L1/R1 and then basically circle strafe them to pieces. Then go for the generators, knocking out their surrounding ballistae first. As you're doing all this, thin out the dragons in the sky any chance you get.

Last level may seem even harder if you forget about what resources you have at your disposal

 

[chubigans]

Is that really the last level? Whoa, this game is a bit short then. Glad they have medals in this game, otherwise I'd be upset.

 

[TEH-CJ]

So what other problems does lair have apart from the controlls ?

someone give me a brief summary .

 

[TTP]

I just rented this game. I'm on the infamous bridge level. It's kinda meh right now. For me personally the only redeeming quality is the music. IGN was right when they said that the moment you need precision in your controls, you're fucked. High up in the sky, it's pretty easy to control the dragon, but get in combat or try to land on a narrow passage and it all goes to shit.

The voice acting really gets to me too, don't know why. As somebody else said the intermittent cutscenes are atrocious. You play for a minute, then watch a cutscene, then play for another minute then watch another cutscene. It's ridiculous.

Also, the game DOES run like ass. And graphically, it isn't impressive at all. Technically maybe, (and even that's a stretch. if they had everything in this game running at a decent frame rate, THEN maybe, but they dont).

I realize I'm just reiterating what a lot of people here have said, but most of the stuff is true. However I do plan to finish it.

Rent before buy.

I think most of the problems people agre getting with the controls comes from the fact that they dont quite get that a) you have indirect control over the dragon via reins and b) dragons are not X-Wings.

 

[Valkyr Junkie]

You have to knock out 3 generators orbiting the main base and 2 cannons on the base itself (shaped like giant kegs that shoot the ice/rock shot at you) Each of the generators has 3 ballistae surrounding. I go for the cannons first since they're the most lethal. Get close enough to them to lock on with L1/R1 and then basically circle strafe them to pieces. Then go for the generators, knocking out their surrounding ballistae first. As you're doing all this, thin out the dragons in the sky any chance you get.

Thanks. I had been saving the 2 cannons until after the generators were toast since the game doesn't prompt you to go after the cannons until then.

 

[FightyF]

I think most of the problems people agre getting with the controls comes from the fact that they dont quite get that a) you have indirect control over the dragon via reins and b) dragons are not X-Wings.

The funny thing is that F5 fucked up how X-Wings controlled.

So maybe they have no idea how real dragons are supposed to be controlled. ;P

 

[Kittonwy]

I think most of the problems people agre getting with the controls comes from the fact that they dont quite get that a) you have indirect control over the dragon via reins and b) dragons are not X-Wings.

It's ok that they're dragons, but then if you're giving less precise controls, make the flying more forgiving. I'm almost inclined to suggest slightly bigger fireballs and maybe a broader and more far-reaching fire-stream for ground runs. The "oh now you're supposed to shake the controller now, oh now you're supposed to move the controller side to side, oh now you're supposed to just move the left analog stick" presents a problem of disconnect, those QTEs should have been gone, they're meaningless, bosses should have weakspots and stun-triggers, and if they're big then the player should be able to jump on them and run around and do damage, the boss would writhe and shake and throw the player off, and then the dragon would pick the player right up, then you go back to trying to initiate the stun sequence again. Try to do a few things and do them right, right?

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

It's ok that they're dragons, but then if you're giving less precise controls, make the flying more forgiving. I'm almost inclined to suggest slightly bigger fireballs and maybe a broader and more far-reaching fire-stream for ground runs. The "oh now you're supposed to shake the controller now, oh now you're supposed to move the controller side to side, oh now you're supposed to just move the left analog stick" presents a problem of disconnect, those QTEs should have been gone, they're meaningless, bosses should have weakspots and stun-triggers, and if they're big then the player should be able to jump on them and run around and do damage, the boss would writhe and shake and throw the player off, and then the dragon would pick the player right up, then you go back to trying to initiate the stun sequence again. Try to do a few things and do them right, right?

QTEs really need to be banished from whence they came. If I had a time machine I'd almost be tempted to go punch the guy playing "Earth Angel" at Yu Suzuki's parents' high school prom just so Yu wouldn't be conceived and go on to introduce the QTE to the mainstream via Shenmue.

 

[FirstInHell]

I just got done playing this at my friend's house. The whole experience was frustrating to say the least. I see what they were trying to do here with the SIXASIS, but controlling the dragon was just way too cumbersome. From a control standpoint, there was no way to translate what I wanted to happen onto the screen. Everything had a "delayed" feeling to it. In all honesty, I have no desire to bother playing this game again. A game has to provide a good initial first impression and Lair fails at that. If F5 was trying to challenge players with a new control scheme that they know has a high learning curve, they were completely insane not to give gamers a choice.

My friend was trying to defend the game, but even he realized he could have spent $60 elsewhere.

 

[KongRudi]

Youtube wich shows how not to control in Lair, and how to control, if someone should struggle.

http://www.n4g.com/ps3/News-64998.aspx

It dosn't look that hard, figured out Superrubadub so I hope I will figure out Lair aswell..
It sounds alot cooler to control the reins via motion, instead as controlling the dragon via a aircraft-like stick atleast.

 

[haunts]

Youtube wich shows how not to control in Lair, and how to control, if someone should struggle.

http://www.n4g.com/ps3/News-64998.aspx

It dosn't look that hard, figured out Superrubadub so I hope I will figure out Lair aswell..
It sounds alot cooler to control the reins via motion, instead as controlling the dragon via a aircraft-like stick atleast.

Yeah looks like he knows what he is doing and that actually looks fun.

Ive always been skeptical when review sites and mags rate low on controls. I mean like, you see all these videos of heavenly sword with people who obviously have no clue what they are doing. Chances are, the same journalist who reviews the game probably wont be -that- much better to begin with.

If you ask me, if Virtua Fighter 5 had different models, presentation, etc and was called something else I'm sure it would get low grades based on controls too. Its just the series has been out long enough to where people (japanese players etc) have proven that it is a good game that you simply just have to master to be good at. At this point some random journalist cant come along an say "oh its too hard to do a sholder/elbow/whatever, this game sucks".

With that being said, I never expected Liar to be over 7-7.5 to begin with, but 4.5 or w/e reviews just seem lazy to me.

 

[jmd494]

I'm stuck at the spotlight level. How the hell do you get past that? I keep latching onto that power supply then the screen gets all firery and I can't see shit. What do I do?

 

[chubigans]

I'm stuck at the spotlight level. How the hell do you get past that? I keep latching onto that power supply then the screen gets all firery and I can't see shit. What do I do?

You need to take out the spotlights first by shooting the power cables.

 

[jmd494]

You need to take out the spotlights first by shooting the power cables.

I just waited for like 54 seconds for that you son of a...

You wanna hurry up a little bit next time.

Just kidding...thanks man!

 

[patsu]

I just rented this game. I'm on the infamous bridge level. It's kinda meh right now. For me personally the only redeeming quality is the music. IGN was right when they said that the moment you need precision in your controls, you're fucked. High up in the sky, it's pretty easy to control the dragon, but get in combat or try to land on a narrow passage and it all goes to shit.

Did you try to slow down the dragon ? I think the real problems are:

+ Level design

++ Don't overlap so many goals before they are completed

++ Game is not balanced well for default difficulty. If I slow down the dragon to gain fine-grained control, I might not execute fast enough to win.



+ Presentation

++ Get rid of the intermitten cut scenes (do them in PIP, or space out the sub-quests so they are not needed)

++ Do NOT pan to the fallen soldiers or rhino head when I dropped them. It's meaningless.



+ Controls

++ Works well for me so far. Perhaps some more play testing and other control options would be good.

 

[Valkyr Junkie]

Assuming you're okay with the motion controls, unlike some, the game still has issues. I enjoyed playing through it, but I wouldn't recommend it at full price.

OK now what do I do for the boss fight after that? Only worry about the rocks?

edit: Nevermind. I didn't realize that fight lets you have a checkpoint.

 

[Schrade]

++ Get rid of the intermitten cut scenes (do them in PIP, or space out the sub-quests so they are not needed)

I don't have a PS3 nor have I played Lair but after watching several videos of it THIS comment right here would make the game seem a lot more enjoyable (providing you don't have problems controlling it). The transitions between the movies and the gameplay seems like it would suck and doing it in PIP just like the Heavenly Sword ones would be awesome.

 

[jett]

If you ask me, if Virtua Fighter 5 had different models, presentation, etc and was called something else I'm sure it would get low grades based on controls too

Video game reviewers are posers? Ya don't say. I've seen Mielke play VF5, we all have. And it seems like he doesn't have a fucking clue as to what he's doing, and yet he praises VF to the high heavens. :lol

 

[Jim]

Finally started playing LAIR since I was having issues with Warhawk stats and logging in for whatever reason yesterday. I'm a few missions in/

-Controls seem fine after playing around with the tutorials a bit, but targeting and confusing mission objectives suck

-The completely random shake/move stick QTEs are terrible... sooo boring (and I really like them in God of War, for example)

-The framerate is OK, not nausea inducing at least

-Cheesy voice acting

-It's pretty ugly so far. I'm playing on a native 1080p set, and the game does NOT look natively rendered 1080p to me. The PS3 is definitely outputting it at 1080p, but I'll be damned if anything but the text is actually 1080p native... it's too soft and muddy looking - I'm not talking about the textures/color choices. I've played a ton of native 1080p games and video content (and have grown used to the crispness of it) and think I have an accurate eye for it, and something doesn't look right. REALLY disappointing IMO.

They should have just ripped off Panzer Dragoon Orta, retained the LAIR style and some motion controls, and gave a little more freedom of movement.

 

[Lord Error]

-The completely random shake/move stick QTEs are terrible... sooo boring (and I really like them in God of War, for example)

They should have just removed those completely, perhaps only leaving those where you shake controller up/down when the dragon latches onto something. Even better they should have done exactly what Kittonwy suggested - make the "Takedowns" more like SotC somehow.

I have nothing against QTEs, they are preferred to straight up non-interactive action cutscenes to me, but they have to be done right. God of War does them right, RE4 does as well, I liked the rope-running one in HS demo also, but in Lair, they really suck 95% of the time - you don't feel any connection to what you're doing with what's happening on the screen.

The "three lives, then repeat mission" is also too oldschool and dumb. I was playing this mission last night where you have to break the dam, and when I was on the verge of breaking it, and finishing the mission, I lost my last life. Oops, I have to repeat the whole 20 minutes again! No thanks, I'll give it another try today maybe.

I'm playing on a native 1080p set, and the game does NOT look natively rendered 1080p to me.

It most likely is not in the truest sense of the word. It is doing one better than upscaling from 1280x720 (or 950x1080), but it's most likely not truly rendering in 1900x1080 either. So what's it doing? My best guess by looking at screenshots, and as hinted by someone at B3D is that they are using a "leftover" edges from the MSAA buffer (where the picture is partially rendered in higher resolution), blending it with the rest of the image rendered in lower reslution. That's why you get better than upscaled looking edges, but the rest of the picture doesn't really have natively rendered quality.

 

[fatigues_gasolini]

I have an intense love/hate relationship with this game. At times its great and I have fun with it, other times i want to break the disc in half. Controls and objectives have alot to do with it. Sometimes i can get the dragon to fly perfectly and mimic all my movements, others its almost impossible. Some of the objectives given are way too general, and I dont know exactly what to do. Also, they sometimes give you too many things to look out for. IMO, its definitely not a 9.5 game, or a 4.9 either. Ive played worse games that have gotten better scores.

 

[nightez]

I haven't played the game yet. But some of the control criticisms here seem out of place.

Yes its difficult to turn and control your beast with precision, but do you expect a huge gigantic Dragon to turn quickly or control with pin point precision? I'd imagine those beasts would be tough to control. The IGN review was even complaining that the turning angle angle was too wide lol :lol

 

[Vrolokus]

I haven't played the game yet. But some of the control criticisms here seem out of place.

Yes its difficult to turn and control your beast with precision, but do you expect a huge gigantic Dragon to turn quickly or control with pin point precision? I'd imagine those beasts would be tough to control. The IGN review was even complaining that the turning angle angle was too wide lol :lol

So it's okay for a game to be less playable and less fun as long as it's realistic? As long as the game about dragons is realistic?

When I make a dragon game, I'm going to make up dragons that are fun to fly.

 

[MC Safety]

Video game reviewers are posers? Ya don't say. I've seen Mielke play VF5, we all have. And it seems like he doesn't have a fucking clue as to what he's doing, and yet he praises VF to the high heavens. :lol

James is very good at Virtua Fighter. Make no mistake about that.

 

[Vrolokus]

Video game reviewers are posers? Ya don't say. I've seen Mielke play VF5, we all have. And it seems like he doesn't have a fucking clue as to what he's doing, and yet he praises VF to the high heavens. :lol

That's better than him not having a clue what he was doing and then panning VF as crap. I don't have to write a Ph.D thesis on Crime & Punishment to say it's a great book.