antiloop said:I want to get my hands on a demo.
At least in videos it looks pretty easy to control. Just like Motorstorm i expect it to be more comfortable after some training.
antiloop said:At least in videos it looks pretty *snip!*
antiloop said:I want to get my hands on a demo.
At least in videos it looks pretty easy to control. Just like Motorstorm i expect it to be more comfortable after some training.
jetjevons said:Can someone confirm that your partners/friends name in the game is actually JEVONS or JEVON or something?
I'm wondering if that made it in.
Vrolokus said:So it's okay for a game to be less playable and less fun as long as it's realistic? As long as the game about dragons is realistic?
When I make a dragon game, I'm going to make up dragons that are fun to fly.
Jim said:They should have just ripped off Panzer Dragoon Orta, retained the LAIR style and some motion controls, and gave a little more freedom of movement.
I'm kinda torn on this. What you are saying makes sense, and many times during the game I thought the same, but at the end, one of - if not the best mission (Second to last one) was largely unscripted and let you deal with things in order you wanted.FightyF said:Imagine two gameplay scenarios. One where you are "on rails" a la Star Fox and are flying through a canyon, and projectiles are coming at you from in front of you.
Wollan said:- The game is pretty basic, it's a shoot em up. No skill tree, items or anything of that substance. You gain some new attacks but I really don't care to be honest as you spend 90% of time firing your breath.
If your second scenario included a lot of confusing camera work for the sake of cinematic effect and several cutscenes to punctuate the action that cause the player to lose their bearings, then you'd have it. I really think a lot of people are mis-diagnosing the problem here. It's not the controls, it's the disorienting camera that makes it difficult to get used to the controls.FightyF said:Imagine two gameplay scenarios. One where you are "on rails" a la Star Fox and are flying through a canyon, and projectiles are coming at you from in front of you. Using motion controls to dodge the projectiles should be fairly easy and the controls would seem very responsive. In a second scenario, say you had full freedom of movement, and you had a mission where you were expected to navigate through an extremely narrow canyon with electrified walls. That's when the same controls will feel like a nuisance.
The motion for dashing is thrust the controller forward and the motion for a 180 is lift the controller up. That's how the onscreen cues demonstrate them and if you follow those, there's little or no mistakes by the game interpreting them.KTallguy said:Motion for Dashing: Shake controller down.
Motion for 180: Shake controller up.
Wollan said:I'm already on Level 13 (of 15 if you include the training I believe?). It can be pretty enjoyable when you're dealing with huge armies and such and there's a lot of flaming and ground combat with no escort duties or things that needs to be pulled..etc. It can be very enjoyable in those cases but sometimes they keep trying to cram too much specific stuff in there, let me just fight these armies on a larger scale please. When it works on those larger scales it can be pretty inspiring (what if they had a multiplayer rts/dragon game hybrid..etc). The story of the game is so far very, very straight forward. I'm almost surprised about the lack of surprises so far.
KTallguy said:Motion for Dashing: Shake controller down.
Motion for 180: Shake controller up.
Belfast said:Semantics. Let's make a game about dragons that is believable, not realistic. I mean, that's the crux upon which we base any kind of fantasy, right? Why forego LAIR the same expectations?
Wollan said:Just had my first dose playing the retail version.
Impressions so far:
+ Flying is actually really good and so is ground combat (the last one being stick based), like Warhawk, I could see some flight maneouvers being easier and straight forward but I doubt that it would be nearly as fun without waggle (as proved by Warhawk)
+ Graphics are really great, even more so the technical accomplishment which is without an equal so far at least.
+ The music is an absolute pleasure
+ The game has a number of features which you can access outside of the main game, you can post on the official forums (a web browser will pop up), you can pop up your XMB friendslist to do messaging there, there's a lot, a ton actually of extra material but about two thirds of it is currently locked away. There's also leader boards..etc.
+ I really liked the world map, like flying around on a globe version of the Middle Earth map. Also, the menus in general are ultra smooth and very well laid out.
- The biggest flaw with the game is the that the color palette actually hides your targets, the easiest way to find them is to fly in such a angle that they aim up against the sky or just to track their fire. Auto aiming aids really well though and the camera totally tracks them 360 degrees if you manage to lock on which is good.
- Flying/ground is very good but the trouble starts when they decide to use waggle for every little thing. While shaking off some pillars is okay, ramming into other creatures and such isn't particularly fun and I think hauling the rains/doing a 180 is to close to each other in terms of how to use the controller. With that said, once you figure out the 'trick' with each one you actually perform them effortlessly so I guess there are some riding skills beneath it all but I wish they toned down the need for waggle outside of actual flight.
- The game is pretty basic, it's a shoot em up. No skill tree, items or anything of that substance. You gain some new attacks but I really don't care to be honest as you spend 90% of time firing your breath.
- Voice acting is cheesy though I like the story teller.
So far I've only reached the bridge level (fifth level I believe, also it's the TGS level) and there haven't been any bad missions as of yet I think. I've played straight to this point without dying so far.
Vrolokus said:Because what they didn't isn't "believeable", it's a lame excuse for muddy controls.
ezekial45 said:
ezekial45 said:
ezekial45 said:
kaching said:The motion for dashing is thrust the controller forward and the motion for a 180 is lift the controller up. That's how the onscreen cues demonstrate them and if you follow those, there's little or no mistakes by the game interpreting them.
MachoInfinity said:The controls aren't 'muddy' dimwit.
Kittonwy said:The "shake the controller twenty times to rip a rhino's head off" is giving me cramps in my biceps, this and "shake the controller twenty times to tear the attack tower off" are two of my biggest pet peeves with the game, I don't mind doing it a couple of times but there are like twenty of those damn towers in one level, that's not to say I don't dislike having too many things going on and not having them sorted out and organized for me, to me the gameplay design is just a tad disorganized, they need to streamline things and make things more seamless. They need to look at a game like Soul Reaver, a PS1 game to see how seamless gameplay, exploration and power-ups are done.
Vrolokus said:A well thought out retort. Maybe I should reconsider my position.
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.
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No, the game is still terminally unfun, primarily due to the controls. But I appreciate the thoughtful debate, thanks.
KTallguy said:I think the problem is mapping strong gestures of a certain direction to the Sixaxis. I also see this problem with the Wii, although it's not as pronounced.
For example, a lot of reviewers complain that they can't get the 180 move correctly, because they keep dashing.
Motion for Dashing: Shake controller down.
Motion for 180: Shake controller up.
Because when you shake the controller down, you're also shaking it up (wind up, follow through) which means these two gestures can get easily confused.
Sixaxis Tilt (as well as Wii tilt) work perfectly. I have no issues steering a Warhawk with motion, because all I'm doing is tilting the controller in the direction I want to go. There are no violent gestures to boost or break, it's all shoulder buttons and sometimes the right analog stick (to do more complex maneuvers).
Tilt isn't the issue here, it's the thrusting and shaking gestures that are in general, highly imprecise and easy for the software to mix up.
Lair could have used motion control in a better way by only utilizing the tilt function. Also they could have made it so when you hold X to accelerate and shake the controller down, you dash forward, but if you release X and shake the controller, you do a 180.
Furthermore, combining gesture based gameplay with tilt is a bit dangerous, because when you do the gesture, you'll also mess up your tilt and you'll lose track of the direction you're going. I think that's really the main issue with the controls.
My rental is in the mail. I can't wait :lol
Byakuya769 said:Thing is the controls for diving and 180 turn are not "shake up/down" they are push forward for dive and pull up for the roll. Not trying to bite your head off since you haven't played the game, cause it seems a lot of people are getting the controls on it wrong. I think the frustration that many are having with lair is going to be part of the growing pains of motion controls. Developers are going to have a choice of making easy motion controls or controls that are as complicated as the inputs we've grown use to with d-pads and sticks.
All I know is that Capcom is lucky I wasn't a reviewer back when I started playing street fighter as a kid and couldn't get dragon punches and shadokens down! Yet now those inputs are second nature to anyone who plays fighting games and many who play other genera of games.
ezekial45 said:
Ecchi-Time7 said:Wasn't this game supposed to be another AAA PS3 game? What happened?
Ecchi-Time7 said:Wasn't this game supposed to be another AAA PS3 game? What happened?
Same thing that always happens at GAF - lotta people talking like they've played the game, acting as if everyone else put the game on a pedestal just so they can tear it down. I think the number of people who truly tried to claim that Lair was guaranteed to be an AAA game around here can be counted on one hand.Ecchi-Time7 said:Wasn't this game supposed to be another AAA PS3 game? What happened?
I figured this would be here already. I just got done watching and it looks atrocious.ezekial45 said: