• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Official US/JP PLAYSTATION 3 Launch Thread

bishoptl said:
Not to put too fine a point on it, but you can piss off.

You have no idea how easy it would be to dispense with 99% of the anti-360/PS3 FUD that goes on in this forum every day with just one detailed post...but apparently little things like NDAs and contractural agreements are unbeknownst to you. When an Insomniac dev does take the time to visit this thread and offer what knowledge he's allowed to, you provide posts like the one quoted above. Guess whose presence is more valuable, jerky.
<3

My exact feelings when I see things that relate to me.
 
well, I'm real ****ing glad I bought a 1080i tv a month and a half ago!!!!! Seriously, this pisses me off emmensly. Some people need to read the OP on the subject, it doesn't suggest you play in 480p, it appears to MAKE you. WHAT THE ****?!?! I don't know what to do know, this is going to be an issue on almost every game right? most games will support 720p and not 1080i. For that money it had better upscale3 SOMETHING. I'm honestly in shock, dont want to over react but seriously WHY am I getting a ps3 now? it sounds like Im totally ****ed here. IT CAN"T EVEN UPSCALE ANYTHING?!??!? That seems like the largest glaring omission possible

Someone tell I have this wrong. Yes my TV will likely rescale it and will likely suck doing so, thats WHY I bought a 1000 dollar tv and not a 3000 dollar one; the ps3 would obivously upscale....

Yeah its late and I worked 16 hours today, but about 80 percent of my launch hype just got flushed. Its going to looks like shit. Oh and whoever suggests 'get a better TV' yeah sit and spin buddy :(
NITE
 

cvxfreak

Member
Whoo-hoo, mine arrives tomorrow morning. :D

...but I'm at school until 7PM thanks to a Kanji quiz and JLPT tutoring. ;o; And I have a paper due the very next day. And a flight to hitch on Friday.

...this sucks. :(
 

LJ11

Member
BobTheFork said:
well, I'm real ****ing glad I bought a 1080i tv a month and a half ago!!!!! Seriously, this pisses me off emmensly. Some people need to read the OP on the subject, it doesn't suggest you play in 480p, it appears to MAKE you. WHAT THE ****?!?! I don't know what to do know, this is going to be an issue on almost every game right? most games will support 720p and not 1080i. For that money it had better upscale3 SOMETHING. I'm honestly in shock, dont want to over react but seriously WHY am I getting a ps3 now? it sounds like Im totally ****ed here. IT CAN"T EVEN UPSCALE ANYTHING?!??!? That seems like the largest glaring omission possible

Someone tell I have this wrong. Yes my TV will likely rescale it and will likely suck doing so, thats WHY I bought a 1000 dollar tv and not a 3000 dollar one; the ps3 would obivously upscale....

Yeah its late and I worked 16 hours today, but about 80 percent of my launch hype just got flushed. Its going to looks like shit. Oh and whoever suggests 'get a better TV' yeah sit and spin buddy :(
NITE

Does your TV accept 720p sources? If it does, then you don't have to worry because your TV will upscale to 1080i.
 

BlueTsunami

there is joy in sucking dick
LJ11 said:
Does your TV accept 720p sources? If it does, then you don't have to worry because your TV will upscale to 1080i.

It does (from what hes stated), hes just worried that the TVs scaler will suck. I also was hoping the PS3 would internally scale itself, instead of having to be relying on the quality (or lack of) of some HDTVs scalers.

But I'm not getting one at launch, hopefully its resolved by the time I do get one.
 

LJ11

Member
BlueTsunami said:
It does (from what hes stated), hes just worried that the TVs scaler will suck. I also was hoping the PS3 would internally scale itself, instead of having to be relying on the quality (or lack of) of some HDTVs scalers.

But I'm not getting one at launch, hopefully its resolved by the time I do get one.

Should have read his post more carefully, it's getting too late. Sony definitely needs to find a solution. I'm sure when I wake up in the morning 1up, Gamespot, and the like will have a nice little story on another Sony "oversight." Can't wait to see how Sony spins this shit? I love Sony to death, but this is just inexcusable.
 
as stated earlier, some TV's are simply incapable of doing *anything* with 720p. Just a blank screen. Generally, older CRT Projection TV's work this way. They can only show 1080i or 480p/i, so the device they hook up *has* to scale on its own.
 
yeah it scales, but its a slim CRT, I really dont expect much. There was a 720p native one for the same price, but i really didnt know any better at the time, AND its that samsung slim that everyone told me to dodge. I actually really like the TV I have, it was cheap and its looks great so far, I'm just really tired and pissed, and I could not believe what he said about resistence. Even constantly changing the RES setting back and forth seems like such a pain in the ass. I almost got that sony crt 960 or whatever model, but it was 3 times heavier and 26 inches deep. I just =cant have another beast like that in my house

So, who was saying the ps3 dont have a scaler chip the 360 have? So the 360 had a chip in it that would do it, but they didn't turn it on for a year? and sony can't do that(would have to be software addition later)? do i understand that right.

oh I checked my messages and GameStop comfimed I get my ps3... so alot fo the hype is back :) I'm just really suprised at this news and kind of ticked. I mean I dont get HD tv and the ps3 will be the first REAL use of my tv(aside from forced 1080i from my pc playing hl2), It feels like I was just told 'Sorry not good enough' It will awile before I upgarde to a new TV, it took me 6 years to ditch my old bucket for an HD set.
 

Sean*O

Member
Yeah, a lot of the legacy CRT and RP CRT sets can not accept a 720p signal, just 480i/p and 1080i. My Mitusbishi RP CRT works this way.
 

Sean*O

Member
So, who was saying the ps3 dont have a scaler chip the 360 have? So the 360 had a chip in it that would do it, but they didn't turn it on for a year? and sony can't do that(would have to be software addition later)? do i understand that right

The 360 has had a (working) scaler chip in it since day one. Never an issue with any game in 1080i on my old RP CRT set (which does not accept 720p signals).

The only thing they have added as far as output (a year later) is concerned is 1080p output.
 

Stealth

Member
"That blog" has a list of rumored PS3 allotments for a good number of Best Buy stores. My store wasn't on the list, but it looks like at least 20 60GB and 6 20GB PS3s will hit each store. Unconfirmed list, though, so take it with a few grains of salt.
 
well I remember asking the guy at BB if it accepts a 720p signal and he said yes. He also was just kind of agreeing with all of my questions about should I buy this TV :/ hmm I suppose I wont be able to check for 3 days. Still a nice set, I actually tossed my old monitor and have been gaming and browsing from my tv for a few weeks
 

Sean*O

Member
well I remember asking the guy at BB if it accepts a 720p signal and he said yes. He also was just kind of agreeing with all of my questions about should I buy this TV :/ hmm I suppose I wont be able to check for 3 days. Still a nice set, I actually tossed my old monitor and have been gaming and browsing from my tv for a few weeks

No way to check and see if your TV will accpet a 720p signal? If none o your ddevices will output 720p, try looking up the model number online and see if you can find out that way.
 
Sean*O said:
No way to check and see if your TV will accpet a 720p signal? If none o your ddevices will output 720p, try looking up the model number online and see if you can find out that way.
ill do that now. Well my x850 can 'force' output at 720p or 1080i, but someone else told me that its different from an HD signal so that wont work to check.
 

Sean*O

Member
ill do that now. Well my x850 can 'force' output at 720p or 1080i, but someone else told me that its different from an HD signal so that wont work to check.

Yeah, looking it up online by model number might be the best way to go then, cause I forget if it's a 720p30 standard or a 720p60 standard. .
 

BlueTsunami

there is joy in sucking dick
drohne said:
ps3 doesn't have a scaler? boggle

Its real weird but it has to be the only explanation. That or Sony is making some type of frontend/backend for it in Software (To come as a firmeware update)? I don't know.

The manual switching of Resolutions dealee needs to get fixed. I don't want to deal with that. That seems to go hand in hand with the scaling issue the system has though.
 
so I looked online for about 10 minutes and couldn't find an anser... then I looked in the manual(der) and found

support by component
1920x1080i
1280x720p(whew)
720x480p
720x480i

guess I dodged a bullet. Still sucks for people that can't see 720p. I am kind of concerned about that 'craapy upscaling algorythms' thing but we'll see.

So, I should the ps3 to 720p and I won't need to screw with anything when I start up resistence?
 

Sean*O

Member
so I looked online for about 10 minutes and couldn't find an anser... then I looked in the manual(der) and found

support by component
1920x1080i
1280x720p(whew)
720x480p
720x480i

guess I dodged a bullet. Still sucks for people that can't see 720p. I am kind of concerned about that 'craapy upscaling algorythms' thing but we'll see.

So I should set be ps3 to 720p and I won't need to screw with anything when I start up resistence?

LOL, cool. Looks like you will be OK then. Though I think Sony will have blood on their hands if they can't work up a quick fix to this issue for the many people out there with non 720p compliant sets.
 

BlueTsunami

there is joy in sucking dick
BobTheFork said:
So I should set be ps3 to 720p and I won't need to screw with anything when I start up resistence?

Yep, sounds as though you'll be setting up the console to play games at 720p and the TV will upscale it to its native res (1080i). Also, in all honesty, even if the scaler is bad it would probably still be better than playing it at 480p.
 

Sean*O

Member
If anything it's best to set it to 1080i.

Since the output from the console isn't 1080i in this case, he might get the best results just bypassing the internal scaler on his TV and sticking with 720p. The fewer steps in the processing chain the better, usually.

Or wait... does your TV automatically force 1080i upscaling even though it accepts a 720p signal??
 
Sean*O said:
LOL, cool. Looks like you will be OK then. Though I think Sony will have blood on their hands if they can't work up a quick fix to this issue for the many people out there with non 720p compliant sets.
agreed. This really seems like the kind of thing Sony should either have fixed, ar been open about. I refuse to believe they didn't know certain HD tv's would get f'd on resistence and other gamer. And yeah it may hurt sales to say that kind of thing, but its a huge media story and pr slam if people really get pissed by this.

MAYBE, since there seem to be many things called for in the NA launch not there yet from JP launch, MAYBE there will be a firmware update to accompany the US launch and this will be addressed somehow, at the last possible chance before the Launch... and MABYE ill find a ff7 remake preloaded on my drive :p

Edit MY TV is 1080i native, so I think that means it force upscales anyway
LG 30FS4D
 

KillJade

Banned
Sean*O said:
Since the output from the console isn't 1080i in this case, he might get the best results just bypassing the internal scaler on his TV and sticking with 720p. The fewer steps in the processing chain the better, usually.

Or wait... does your TV automatically force 1080i upscaling even though it accepts a 720p signal??


that's why i asked him. no consumer CRT displays 720p. very few do. and the ones that do cost an arm and a leg.
 

Sean*O

Member
that's why i asked him. no consumer CRT displays 720p. very few do. and the ones that do cost an arm and a leg.

Yeah, I guess he does not have a choice then in any case. But at least he will get the 720p signal upscaled, not a 480p one. Cool.
 
KillJade said:
that's why i asked him. no consumer CRT displays 720p. very few do. and the ones that do cost an arm and a leg.
about that, the samsung 30 inch slim(not sure of model check BB.com) it listed as 720p native... People keep telling me that NO SLIM CRT DOES 720 NATIVE, but the site listd it, and store says that, the clerk says it, online info says it, so im not sure. I was still told dont buy that tv anyway
 

J2 Cool

Member
Sean*O said:
The 360 has had a (working) scaler chip in it since day one. Never an issue with any game in 1080i on my old RP CRT set (which does not accept 720p signals).

The only thing they have added as far as output (a year later) is concerned is 1080p output.

Man, this is a HUGE Sony blunder. Just.. dumb.
 

Tabris

Member
I have a TV that upscales 720p to 1080i (Toshiba 34" CRT HDTV).

Am I screwed for Resistance? Is it just Resistance? Will all the other games be properly outputted?

I mean if it's just Resistance, that's not a big deal for me. If it's all games that aren't 1080p, then it's a very big deal.
 

KillJade

Banned
Tabris said:
I have a TV that upscales 720p to 1080i (Toshiba 34" CRT HDTV).

Am I screwed for Resistance? Is it just Resistance? Will all the other games be properly outputted?

I mean if it's just Resistance, that's not a big deal for me. If it's all games that aren't 1080p, then it's a very big deal.


you are perfectly fine :)
 

Danj

Member
RaijinFY said:
Man I'm totally lost in your discussion... >_<

I'm somewhat bemused too, but the current topic seems to indicate that PS3 can't scale 720p up to 1080i. What does that actually mean, though? I mean, does it mean that if you selected 1080i in the PS3's resolution settings, you get nothing on certain games? Or does it scale down (to 480p for example) instead of up? Please feel free to set me straight on this issue.
 

KillJade

Banned
BobTheFork said:
about that, the samsung 30 inch slim(not sure of model check BB.com) it listed as 720p native... People keep telling me that NO SLIM CRT DOES 720 NATIVE, but the site listd it, and store says that, the clerk says it, online info says it, so im not sure. I was still told dont buy that tv anyway

yea they're generally not very good sets. Sony is king of HDCRTs.
 

BlueTsunami

there is joy in sucking dick
Danj said:
I'm somewhat bemused too, but the current topic seems to indicate that PS3 can't scale 720p up to 1080i. What does that actually mean, though? I mean, does it mean that if you selected 1080i in the PS3's resolution settings, you get nothing on certain games? Or does it scale down (to 480p for example) instead of up? Please feel free to set me straight on this issue.

It means that the PS3 doesn't scale anything at all apparently. You have to rely on your TVs scaler and that scaler only.

If your unlucky and have a HDTV that does not accept 720p signals, your screwed as far as outputting a game like Resistance at a higher resolution. Essentially your forced to play the game at 480p. This is because the PS3 doesn't have an internal scaler to scale the feed to your HDTVs native res and a res it will be able to take.

So its all dependent on the HDTVs scaler and what signals it will except.

*The bit about the PS3 NOT having an internal scaler is just a guess. It could be some other reason. Theres still an issue there and the PS3 isn't scaling for some reason.
 

RaijinFY

Member
Danj said:
I'm somewhat bemused too, but the current topic seems to indicate that PS3 can't scale 720p up to 1080i. What does that actually mean, though? I mean, does it mean that if you selected 1080i in the PS3's resolution settings, you get nothing on certain games? Or does it scale down (to 480p for example) instead of up? Please feel free to set me straight on this issue.


Correct me if i'm wrong but I guess it woud scale down to 480p. I suppose then your game will look like shit and so on...
 
KillJade said:
yea they're generally not very good sets. Sony is king of HDCRTs.
I tried so hard to get a 960 ( i think thats it), the one with super fine pitch. Cony basically took them out of production and replaced it with the 970 which doesn;t have it, but it much cheaper
 

J2 Cool

Member
Danj said:
I'm somewhat bemused too, but the current topic seems to indicate that PS3 can't scale 720p up to 1080i. What does that actually mean, though? I mean, does it mean that if you selected 1080i in the PS3's resolution settings, you get nothing on certain games? Or does it scale down (to 480p for example) instead of up? Please feel free to set me straight on this issue.

It means that suddenly your last line of defense is your tv's scaler. TV scalers are faulty in general and the quality of them is not consistent. And even worse, in older HDTV's (3-5yrs), they don't even accept 720P signals. Leading to the game being downscaled to 480P on legitimate HDTVs. Screwing a solid portion of HDTV owners out of an HDTV experience that the 360 offered a year ago with it's own included scaler. Now we have to grasp to hope that it will all be fixed in a firmware update.

Just dumb for a machine fighting to be the premier High Definition gaming machine and setting many conferences on the very subject and what they were attempting to do.

Tabris said:
As in my TV will work with it? or it's just Resistance? or people are just over-reacting and Sony will fix it in an update?

Not a software/Resistance's problem. It means your tv upscales from 720P to 1080i. So you're not screwed unless you don't like your tv's scaler. No news out of Sony yet.
 

RaijinFY

Member
J2 Cool said:
It means that suddenly your last line of defense is your tv's scaler. TV scalers are faulty in general and the quality of them is not consistent. And even worse, in older HDTV's (3-5yrs), they don't even accept 720P signals. Leading to the game being downscaled to 480P on legitimate HDTVs. Screwing a solid portion of HDTV owners out of an HDTV experience that the 360 offered a year ago with it's own included scaler. Now we have to grasp to hope that it will all be fixed in a firmware update.

Just dumb for a machine fighting to be the premier High Definition gaming machine and setting many conferences on the very subject and what they were attempting to do.

Ok i see more clearly the problem, thx.
 

darkks85

Banned
ps3_32.jpg


There's got to be a scaler there somewhere, no? Maybe Sony is holding back scaling until Blu-ray takes off. Would be hard to sell something if upscaled DVDs looked just as good to most people.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
Its HDMIs fault :(

if a game like resistance is set up for 1280x720p, that can't easily be scaled up to 1920x1080 without quite a lot of effort and memory. (1920x1080 full buffer would be needed even if you're set to 1080i)

The 360 has an analog scaler to output the desired resolutions which means there isn't any memory impact to do the scaling (its doing it on the fly as its creating the output signal). But the PS3 has HDMI output which I would expect to mean creating a proper frame buffer in the right size before outputting it (i.e you can't 'cheat' like with the 360)
 

Danj

Member
J2 Cool said:
Not a software/Resistance's problem. It means your tv upscales from 720P to 1080i.

Uhh... doesn't that sort of imply that Resistance's max resolution is 720p? I'd call that a problem, wasn't it supposed to be hailed as one of the much-vaunted 1080p games?
 

darkks85

Banned
Danj said:
Uhh... doesn't that sort of imply that Resistance's max resolution is 720p? I'd call that a problem, wasn't it supposed to be hailed as one of the much-vaunted 1080p games?

They had 1080p as a goal but dumped it some time ago in favour of more effects and stuff.
 

RaijinFY

Member
Danj said:
Uhh... doesn't that sort of imply that Resistance's max resolution is 720p? I'd call that a problem, wasn't it supposed to be hailed as one of the much-vaunted 1080p games?


Uh no, It has been always a 720p game. They said they would try to get it at 1080p but ultimately, they keep the game output at 720p.
 

BlueTsunami

there is joy in sucking dick
Danj said:
Uhh... doesn't that sort of imply that Resistance's max resolution is 720p? I'd call that a problem, wasn't it supposed to be hailed as one of the much-vaunted 1080p games?

jstvenson stated, it seems like Insomniac worked to support it. Its vague but it sounds as though the issue lies with the Hardware. Though, I'm wondering if any other games are having this issue (that are purely 720p)?

If there are, then the issue purely lies with the PS3.
 

Luckyman

Banned
mrklaw said:
Its HDMIs fault :(

if a game like resistance is set up for 1280x720p, that can't easily be scaled up to 1920x1080 without quite a lot of effort and memory. (1920x1080 full buffer would be needed even if you're set to 1080i)

The 360 has an analog scaler to output the desired resolutions which means there isn't any memory impact to do the scaling (its doing it on the fly as its creating the output signal). But the PS3 has HDMI output which I would expect to mean creating a proper frame buffer in the right size before outputting it (i.e you can't 'cheat' like with the 360)

Really?
 

BlueTsunami

there is joy in sucking dick
mrklaw said:
Its HDMIs fault :(

if a game like resistance is set up for 1280x720p, that can't easily be scaled up to 1920x1080 without quite a lot of effort and memory. (1920x1080 full buffer would be needed even if you're set to 1080i)

The 360 has an analog scaler to output the desired resolutions which means there isn't any memory impact to do the scaling (its doing it on the fly as its creating the output signal). But the PS3 has HDMI output which I would expect to mean creating a proper frame buffer in the right size before outputting it (i.e you can't 'cheat' like with the 360)

Wow is that the case? I never knew this.

So its the digital nature of the HDMI thats causing this? Does it have to be more emphasized on with each an every PS3 game? Or is it purely an OS thing (which can be resolved as an update to the overhead)?
 
I have a native 720p display but this still pisses me off (principal of the thing). Really sucks if they skimped on a scaler chip...

But the PS3 has HDMI output which I would expect to mean creating a proper frame buffer in the right size before outputting it (i.e you can't 'cheat' like with the 360)

But it still supports an analog output. Why would HDMI get in the way of scaling through the multi-av (component) port?
 
Top Bottom