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[The Grim Heaper]

Can we have more games with chubby girls please?

I like a girl with a little bit of meat on her and I feel my needs are not being met by the gaming industry.

yes pls

chubby lady in senran kagura 2, 100 sales from me

 

[Chopper]

I'll be buying it. That shit's gonna be a collector's item here in the UK!

 

[Jomjom]

I'm fine with this as long as all future shooters and action games feature fat guys or lanky, hipster guys in all of the lead roles. I feel insecure each time I have to play as an unrealistically muscular man because that is not my physique at all. The only thing I have to feel good about myself is that most of the leads are bald and I have a fabulous head of hair.

Also please make them all no taller than 5'5".

 

[YAWN]

But like, every Japanese game ever has one lass or another showing off her tits.

 

[Village]

The problem lies when you make your examples using games that are supposed to be sexualizing, it would be an issue if every woman in The Last of Us was sexualized when every man was not (which happens in a lot of "serious" games), but Senran Kagura is about boobs. Using it as an example of what's wrong with the media is basically asking the game not to exist.

To the non bolded, maybe the person wishes to argue how this game came about may be a societal issue. Maybe the person wants to see this for more genders, I dunno .

And as far as the bolded goes, I dont think criticizing something is asking it not to exist

But like, every Japanese game ever has one lass or another showing off her tits.

That isn't an excuse for anything though.

 

[besada]

If these people want to make a game for young teenagers that focuses on boobs, what is the issue? Can't the rest of us just ignore it if we don't like it?

We can. We can also comment on it. We can even say we don't think it's appropriate for the age range it's aimed at. We can also say that it's part of a larger trend that treats females in video games as eye-candy, rather than actual people. We can do all of those things, to the extent that we individually feel the need to do them.

So, if you don't think this needs commentary, no one's forcing you to comment on it. But your desire not to comment isn't going to be universal.

 

[Suzushiiro]

Senran Kagura is probably the worst game you could pick to plant your anti-sexism flag on. Yes, there is oodles of fanservice. But the game goes out of its way to portay its characters as strong individuals with their own personalities and goals. It's not Shakespeare, but it's far more thorough characterization than you see in most action games. I sort of view this through a distorted categorical imperative: that fanservice is not inherently bad, but that to treat a character mere fanservice is when there is a problem.

I'd go so far as to declare that something like Yakuza is more casually sexist than Senran Kagura. Look at the way host and hostess clubs work differently in the game. When you're the host, your sole job is to keep the customer happy and spending money. When you're in a hostess club, all of the women are immediately interested in you and want to get to know you as a person. Not to mention the running trend of any woman you fight turning out to be a cross-dresser. It's never outright said, but I find the implications of such double standards to be far worse than any of Senran Kagura's in-your-face fanservice.

The author really needs to stop looking at the surface of games and examine how women as characters are portrayed, rather than what they look like. Sexism is a problem, but it's rarely immediately apparent through screenshots. It's when a game implies that there is an inherent superiority to one gender that it arises.

Yeah, otaku media in general, be it games or anime or whatever, frequently has more and better-written female characters than most American media (especially gaming and other geek-focused sectors.) They just also happen to frequently dress said female characters up in revealing and/or fetish-ey outfits and otherwise pander to horny lonely males.

It's sort of like the "almost politically correct redneck" meme in the sense that it's almost-but-not-quite progressive, come to think of it.

 

[Tohsaka]

To the non bolded, maybe the person wishes to argue how this game came about may be a societal issue. Maybe the person wants to see this for more genders, I dunno .

And as far as the bolded goes, I dont think criticizing something is asking it not to exist



That isn't an excuse for anything though.

The author is telling people not to look at reviews, or videos, or anything relating to it. He basically is asking it not to exist by encouraging people to ignore it completely. You can be critical of something without telling people to pretend it doesn't exist.

 

[SolidSnakex]

And as far as the bolded goes, I dont think criticizing something is asking it not to exist

Nah, it's pretty clear from his text that he doesn't want it to exist at all. Which is why his article is called

Senran Kagura Burst is damaging the industry - here's how to stop it

And includes

So, do yourself, and the wider community a favour: don't read articles about its release. Try not to Youtube it. Avoid reviews. And certainly don't buy it.

 

[Gbraga]

To the non bolded, maybe the person wishes to argue how this game came about may be a societal issue. Maybe the person wants to see this for more genders, I dunno .

And as far as the bolded goes, I dont think criticizing something is asking it not to exist

Hmmm maybe, but insulting people who like this kind of thing and saying you shouldn't like this kind of thing has nothing to do with that either, I want to see this for more genders too, but I want Senran Kagura as well.

My post history is probably full of posts saying how much I'd like to play as dudes that looked more like Ian Somerhalder than The Rock, how much I want pretty boys in games and asking for shirtless Delsin in Second Son, but according to articles like this I'm part of the problem and in a lot of cases straight up a misogynist.

 

[Jomjom]

The author is telling people not to look at reviews, or videos, or anything relating to it. He basically is asking it not to exist by encouraging people to ignore it completely. You can be critical of something without telling people to pretend it doesn't exist.

Exactly, the author's advice is just all kinds of wrong. If you want people to intelligently discuss something, how can you tell them to ignore it and be ignorant of what you are even decrying? You can't be critical of something you know absolutely nothing about.

 

[Hubb]

The author is telling people not to look at reviews, or videos, or anything relating to it. He basically is asking it not to exist by encouraging people to ignore it completely. You can be critical of something without telling people to pretend it doesn't exist.

I don't think anyone here is claiming the author of that article actually wrote a good article. I'm no wordsmith, but it was a terribly written/researched (if any research was actually done) article.

 

[Griss]

People say that about games all the time. Its kind of what reviews are.





Why is that exactly?

I'm not saying it's not an issue at all, but the AAA gaming experience is marketed heavily towards men, therefore you're going to see a lot more men as characters. There are huge sections of the gaming industry (namely mobile and social) that cater to women, and I feel like these sections are ignored when we're talking about the problem. If you take the gaming industry as a whole, I think women are being more and more well served. AAA gaming is a niche, and sometimes niches cater more to one group than another.

On top of that, there were more female playable characters or main characters in this year's 'Games of the Year' than ever before, so I really believe that we're making progress even within that niche. We can do better, and we can do more, but it's not the horrendous issue it seemed to be made out to be last year. All my opinion, of couse, and if you don't share it that's fine. The other side of the argument has plenty of good points to it too.

 

[johnsmith]

Most games are made by 13 year old boys in men's bodies. It explains the violence too and language too.

Would you say the same about Martin Scorsese too?

 

[Riposte]

I too feel the pain of knowing you will never be a busty anime girl

 

[joe2187]

I'll be buying it. That shit's gonna be a collector's item here in the UK!

I want that retail copy for the US!, shit sucks that it's only digital here. Why!?

 

[Oriel]

This is why I dislike Nintendo fanboys and their submissive attitude towards the Moral Majority, please think of the children mob. Nintendo and their family first crap can fuck right off!

 

[Orayn]

Replace Senran Kagura Burst with Depression Quest or Gone Home. Now how do you feel?

Niche games for niche markets shouldn't be censored because it doesn't fit a certain crowd's definition of what a game should be.

Let the market decide what should be for sale.

I don't feel anything. I would probably disagree with that article, but I don't see what's wrong with saying "This is why I think Game X is bad and you shouldn't buy it."

Also, where does censorship come into this? I think Bioshock Infinite is a piece of shit and I will argue this point and try to dissuade people from buying or playing it. Am I censoring poor Ken Levine? Is it only censorship if I publish a blog post about it?

 

[Famassu]

I find it patronising that women are assumed to get hung up over idealised body images to a degree that nobody ever expects from men. It's as if there's some unspoken assumption that women are inherently insecure and suggestible.

While men have their own problems that shouldn't be ignored, I do think women are treated a lot worse when it comes to the looks department. I mean, there's a reason why stuff like anorexia and bulimia are way more common with girls/women than men. Women are way more easily judged by their looks (beautifulness of her face, weight, size of boobiezzz, curviness, the obsessive need for make up etc.), weight being a huge factor as clothes are advertised with (near-)anorectic women instead of realistically normal weight ones. A lot of pathetic people even on this very discussion board have unrealistic images of women, where basically anyone who isn't on a Megan Fox level of sexy is a disgustingly ugly, fat bitch, "wouldn't fuck" or whatever.

 

[Chopper]

I want that retail copy for the US!, shit sucks that it's only digital here. Why!?

The only possible answer: US hates boobs. We have them in our daily papers!

 

[Griss]

We can. We can also comment on it. We can even say we don't think it's appropriate for the age range it's aimed at. We can also say that it's part of a larger trend that treats females in video games as eye-candy, rather than actual people. We can do all of those things, to the extent that we individually feel the need to do them.

So, if you don't think this needs commentary, no one's forcing you to comment on it. But your desire not to comment isn't going to be universal.

I understand that completely, and would never seek to shut down discussion. I simply think that the tenor of commentary against these games tends towards 'ban this sick filth' rather than a more measured or contextual discussion of what's wrong with them. That's certainly the case with this article.

Again, I'm not convinced that all characters in a game need to be treated as 'real people'. I'm not against 'eye candy' per se. It seems a lot of people are. As I stated previously, I think the issue is more a lack of developed characters to balance out the scale - gaming as a whole is still very immature when it comes to characterisation and narrative outside of a couple of fantastic dev houses. This is the case whether the game involves women or not.

 

[Village]

Nah, it's pretty clear from his text that he doesn't want it to exist at all. Which is why his article is called

The author is telling people not to look at reviews, or videos, or anything relating to it. He basically is asking it not to exist by encouraging people to ignore it completely. You can be critical of something without telling people to pretend it doesn't exist.

Hmm, i suppose you are right.

Hmmm maybe, but insulting people who like this kind of thing and saying you shouldn't like this kind of thing has nothing to do with that either, I want to see this for more genders too, but I want Senran Kagura as well.

II agree with this sentiment, insulting your readers for liking and not liking a thing is bad. And something that has increased over time with " gaming journalism ". DmC is a prime example of the not liking department, but I would rather let that fade into obscurity.

My post history is probably full of posts saying how much I'd like to play as dudes that looked more like Ian Somerhalder than The Rock, how much I want pretty boys in games and asking for shirtless Delsin in Second Son, but according to articles like this I'm part of the problem and in a lot of cases straight up a misogynist.

I don't think you are apart of the problem. I think what investors think of society is the problem. But that is a another discussion entirely, I myself call for more racial and character deisgn diversity in games. But I dont think this is the thread for that .

 

[PairOfFilthySocks]

Better ban porn-it's damaging to the film industry!

 

[rpmurphy]

I too feel the pain of knowing you will never be a busty anime girl

3D life is truly suffering.

The world needs more cute.

 

[SousedLouse]

Hmmm maybe, but insulting people who like this kind of thing and saying you shouldn't like this kind of thing has nothing to do with that either, I want to see this for more genders too, but I want Senran Kagura as well.

My post history is probably full of posts saying how much I'd like to play as dudes that looked more like Ian Somerhalder than The Rock, how much I want pretty boys in games and asking for shirtless Delsin in Second Son, but according to articles like this I'm part of the problem and in a lot of cases straight up a misogynist.

Your avatar is a prime target. I'm surprised that there hasn't been a drive-by post along the lines of "gee, notice how all the people who don't like the article all have anime avatars", even though there's a near-consensus that the article has tone issues (for once, tone is actually considered an issue), if nothing else. Maybe the people who'd normally post that have just washed their hands of these topics at this point or something.

 

[Hubb]

I too feel the pain of knowing I will never be a busty anime girl

Fixed

 

[Dice//]

(Just to kind of situate myself briefly) I'm a woman and I honestly hate the tits and ass on the level of DoA or Senran Kagura or other titles can have. But I know I'm not the target audience. If people have fun with it (and don't actually objectify women IRL) then I don't care... and it's great to hear even female players can dig on it too.

I definitely wish gaming as whole could market itself better to women as well (that's neither here nor there with regards to the game in particular; but I can't help but feel that with a lot of games I play).

Anyways, this is funny, so I'm gonna post this (I'm sure most of you have seen it) and it kinda applies:

 

[Chet Rippo]

I assume this is supposed to be one of those reverse psychology articles right? It's the only way it would make sense.

 

[YAWN]

That isn't an excuse for anything though.

I know.
Many of Japan's female designs are absolutely god awful. But they're there to pander guys who can't get laid. I think that's the excuse. I think.

 

[bVork]

Yeah, otaku media in general, be it games or anime or whatever, frequently has more and better-written female characters than most American media (especially gaming and other geek-focused sectors.) They just also happen to frequently dress said female characters up in revealing and/or fetish-ey outfits and otherwise pander to horny lonely males.

It's sort of like the "almost politically correct redneck" meme in the sense that it's almost-but-not-quite progressive, come to think of it.

Well, I wouldn't quite go that far. Visual novels in particular have a ridiculously long history of overly passive women just sitting around and waiting for the male player character to make all the moves towards forming a relationship. I find the idea of women as passive objects that only exist to be acquired to be far more offensive than any sexy costume. Also note that my negative example is another Japanese game series.

Meanwhile, I'd view a lot of modern depictions of women in comics, like Wonder Woman, Black Widow, or even the weirdo offshoot Spider-Man Loves Mary Jane as reasonably well-written portrayals. (Depending heavily on the individual writer for the issue or series, of course.)

 

[ThreePiMatt]

We can. We can also comment on it. We can even say we don't think it's appropriate for the age range it's aimed at. We can also say that it's part of a larger trend that treats females in video games as eye-candy, rather than actual people. We can do all of those things, to the extent that we individually feel the need to do them.

So, if you don't think this needs commentary, no one's forcing you to comment on it. But your desire not to comment isn't going to be universal.

And we can also say that people are being too uptight. That people are making a mountain out of a molehill. And that's how these threads tend to go anyway, and the world keeps on turning.

Generally what I take issue with in regards to articles like this is the claim that these types of games are a "problem." Its a very vague claim with no real way to quantify. Games that target super-niche fanbases like this are not keeping people out of video games, at least there is no way that could possibly be proven. If you want to make an argument that there needs to be more games that appeal to women, that's a perfectly valid argument to make. But making games that appeal to women is more than just flipping the main character's gender or covering up some cleavage.

 

[plasmawave]

Can we have more games with chubby girls please?

I like a girl with a little bit of meat on her and I feel my needs are not being met by the gaming industry.

Fat Princess.


Actually, that game pissed of some feminists so never mind.

 

[kinggroin]

We can. We can also comment on it. We can even say we don't think it's appropriate for the age range it's aimed at. We can also say that it's part of a larger trend that treats females in video games as eye-candy, rather than actual people. We can do all of those things, to the extent that we individually feel the need to do them.

So, if you don't think this needs commentary, no one's forcing you to comment on it. But your desire not to comment isn't going to be universal.

A trend that I feel is a direct result of the overwhelming amount of heterosexual male developers handling the material.

Not that I think its wrong to release content that titillates, or objectifies the female body. I'd have zero issues with hard sculpted males being drooled over too.

The games shouldn't be played by impressionable immature individuals (the paradox here!) anyway.

 

[Village]

I'm not saying it's not an issue at all, but the AAA gaming experience is marketed heavily towards men,

Maybe it shouldn't exlusively be and that is ok.

therefore you're going to see a lot more men as characters. There are huge sections of the gaming industry (namely mobile and social) that cater to women, and I feel like these sections are ignored when we're talking about the problem.

Maybe women and other types of people wish to play more games than those types of games.

If you take the gaming industry as a whole, I think women are being more and more well served. AAA gaming is a niche, and sometimes niches cater more to one group than another.

How is triple a gaming niche? Its specifically designed to be over reaching as possible that is why the weird gender specfic marketing has always confused me. If you want mullions of people to buy your game, why not actively advertize to both genders. Or make your game, or I dunno advertisements gender neutral.

On top of that, there were more female playable characters or main characters in this year's 'Games of the Year' than ever before, so I really believe that we're making progress even within that niche.

That doesn't make the problem go away.

We can do better, and we can do more, but it's not the horrendous issue it seemed to be made out to be last year.

It kind of is, multiple mediums even. Its not like 1920 anymore but its stilla big issue.

All my opinion, of couse, and if you don't share it that's fine. The other side of the argument has plenty of good points to it too.

well ok I suppouse.

 

[joe2187]

I would to come out and say in this thread that the art in dragons crown was very offensive to me. The Dwarfs pecs we're enormous and It makes me self conscious that I will never attain girth like that.

 

[Gbraga]

Yeah, otaku media in general, be it games or anime or whatever, frequently has more and better-written female characters than most American media (especially gaming and other geek-focused sectors.) They just also happen to frequently dress said female characters up in revealing and/or fetish-ey outfits and otherwise pander to horny lonely males.

It's sort of like the "almost politically correct redneck" meme in the sense that it's almost-but-not-quite progressive, come to think of it.

When you think about it, it's actually very important to the whole waifu thing that the girls are well developed, who would have some random girl from random AAA action game as their waifu if you can't even remember her name?

 

[KDR_11k]

Senran Kagura is so over the top that I doubt it has any real effect, it's almost a parody at this point. It's the more realistic games, if any, that might perpetuate the body image problems of women.

I too feel the pain of knowing you will never be a busty anime girl

Japan's got your back.

 

[Yukiari]

I think I'm going to go buy Senran Kagura now. Thanks ONM for opening my eyes!

I'm glad I live in a world where all types of fiction exists. As a woman I'm not put off by bouncing bubblies and panty shots. I don't model myself after fictional characters especially like this because most of the time these women could never even exist in the real world.

I love equality but at the end of the day we should never try to overly censor fictional stories because someone doesn't like it.

Japan's got your back.

Okay that's kind of terrifying...

 

[AppleMIX]

Yeah, don't educate yourself on the game and just flat out ignore it because I said so.

Great advice.

 

[foxuzamaki]

Idk why but I find official Nintendo magazine doing this to be counterproductive to the game actually being on the system.

 

[Hubb]

Yeah, don't educate yourself on the game and just flat out ignore it because I said so.

Great advice.

Well to be fair, he didn't educate himself on the game either.

 

[Village]

I would to come out and say in this thread that the art in dragons crown was very offensive to me. The Dwarfs pecs we're enormous and It makes me self conscious that I will never attain girth like that.

I hope you don't actually believe that is the actual problem.

3D life is truly suffering.

The world needs more cute.

We have scientists trying to get moe leaked into dimension as we speak.

 

[plasmawave]

I would to come out and say in this thread that the art in dragons crown was very offensive to me. The Dwarfs pecs we're enormous and It makes me self conscious that I will never attain girth like that.

Problem solved!

 

[Hasney]

Didn't know about this game, or I vaguely heard about it and forgot about it until now. Now buying a copy for me and one for a friends birthday. Thanks, ONM.

 

[Mondy]

The pretentiousness in this article is just off the charts.

 

[That1BlackGuy]

Such arrogance, ignorance, rudeness and hyperbole. Criticism is fine, but attempting to subliminally attack and/or guilt those interested in the game does absolutely nothing but make his entire stance fall on deaf ears, not withstanding the fact that he points to a niche game on top of not following his own advice and giving the game free publicity in the process. Do myself a favor... fuck outta here.

 

[dark_prinny]

This is, by far, the most stupid thing I've read today.

 

[ThreePiMatt]

How is triple a gaming niche? Its specifically designed to be over reaching as possible that is why the weird gender specfic marketing has always confused me. If you want mullions of people to buy your game, why not actively advertize to both genders. Or make your game, or I dunno advertisements gender neutral.

But that's not even exclusive to gaming. Why does Iron Man, Thor, The Hulk, and Captain America all get multiple movies, but Black Widow doesn't? Is it so wrong to say that, in general, men are just more interested in big-budget action, whether its movies or games? I mean, why do we people have to look at that as a "problem." Why can't it be OK to just accept that men and women just won't always have identical tastes. Yes, there are going to be markets that are underserved, but you can't please everyone.

 

[Gbraga]

Your avatar is a prime target. I'm surprised that there hasn't been a drive-by post along the lines of "gee, notice how all the people who don't like the article all have anime avatars", even though there's a near-consensus that the article has tone issues (for once, tone is actually considered an issue), if nothing else. Maybe the people who'd normally post that have just washed their hands of these topics at this point or something.

Haha, I'm actually surprised too, but I was expecting it to be used in another context, like "shut up, you're a Kyoukai no Kanata fan", when I just like Mitsuki (and enjoy the slice of life bits of the anime). But I guess that would happen in off-topic, not here.

It would be funny if that happened though and after some time I went back to my classic Joe Yabuki avatar, and then in the future someone would read that quote and go "wtf?"

 

[GPsych]

I only have one question: Is this game fun? Might buy it if it is.