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[Teslerum]

Every single time a once upon a time revolutionary game designer returns from obscurity and announces a new game, it is mathematically certain that he will release a mediocre or plain good game which modern games easily match or surpass.

Fact.

Well, as I said gaming and first person rpg's developed in a different direction without ever really going all out or exploring further ideas proposed by Daggerfall. So, at the very least what's coming out of this will be interesting. Maybe buggy, maybe not all that good, but interesting. And I'm all for exploring further rather than having no progress made in that area.

This interview with Julian LeFay is very interesting in that regard.



Summed up version



Edit: Also no, far from *every time*.

 

[Stiflers Mom]

...because it's the game industry. It runs on hype. Every game is the greatest thing since sliced bread until it releases and then it isn't even close to that.

Mario Galaxy was like that.
And Last Ninja. But thats 35 years ago.

 

[GreyHorace]

Skyrim was my first Elder Scrolls game and my entrypoint into the series. I've never even heard of The Elder Scrolls until Morrowind was announced for the original Xbox way back in 2002. I only knew of the original games Arena and Daggerfall through retrospectives done on the series on YouTube.

I'll take people's word that they were excellent games despite the frequent bugs and crashes that people tend to associate with the series. But honestly, I'm getting tired of games like these getting a pass on their technical mishaps. For once I'd like a polished RPG experience and not a bug ridden mess. Skyrim wasn't so bad when I played it but these developers should aim for a polished product.

 

[Hans Bubby]

Zog is cooler than all of us combined.

 

[Teslerum]

Skyrim was my first Elder Scrolls game and my entrypoint into the series. I've never even heard of The Elder Scrolls until Morrowind was announced for the original Xbox way back in 2002. I only knew of the original games Arena and Daggerfall through retrospectives done on the series on YouTube.

I'll take people's word that they were excellent games despite the frequent bugs and crashes that people tend to associate with the series. But honestly, I'm getting tired of games like these getting a pass on their technical mishaps. For once I'd like a polished RPG experience and not a bug ridden mess. Skyrim wasn't so bad when I played it but these developers should aim for a polished product.

While I have nothing against your notion, more often than not *polished* in rpg terms is equal to *dumbed down*. Because the less variables you bring into a game, the more controlled it is, the easier it is for QA to cover everything, the less chances are there for bugs to appear, the easier it is to bugfix.

So, in a perfect world, yes. But, in a realistic one, it's something that comes with sacrifice.
(AKA: Cut features, simpler systems.... you name it)

That's why bugs are the crux of more complex wrpgs since their introduction. Not that that's a free pass for ALL types of bugs.

 

[Daymos]

Good thing I still haven't played the DLC stories in Skyrim, I'd better savor them for the rest of my life since it doesn't appear I'll ever get a better open world game. (I just can't get into the witcher3 after like 5 attempts now on ps4, the only real contender that I see)

 

[RokkanStoned]

TES: Daggerfall is my favorite TES game to date, despite playing it after Oblivion and Morrowind. So definitely keeping an eye on this one. I've always been missing the experience and ambitions of Daggerfall.

 

[Grand Theft Scratchy]

I'm interested. I didn't get very far in Daggerfall but got the impression that it was a very large and ambitious game. Morrowind is still my favorite in the series. Oblivion and Skyrim are good but not nearly as interesting for some reason although they do control better.

 

[Hudo]

I wonder who the publisher is. As a new studio, I doubt they have the budget for something like this without outside help..

This is my concern as well. Making a game like this isn't cheap. Maybe T2, seeing that they lack an RPG like this? (I know that they're publishing The Outer Worlds via Private Division) Or maybe EA, since BioWare have gone down the shitter and they basically have destroyed (are destroying) their other own studios? Or maybe even Sony, since they have no RPG series in their first-party portfolio? In any case, it will be interesting to see how that'll turn out.

 

[frogx]

Quotes from interviews:

"We've been calling our system dynamic composition which is basically procedural generation done right. We definitely recognize the flaws in the system we created 25 years ago for Daggerfall but with a little wisdom and some technological advances, we shouldn't repeat the same mistakes … though we might make some new ones!"

"One thing I find useful in thinking about dynamic composition in general, from NPCs to towns to dungeons, is to think in terms of "seeds" and "sub-seeds." For example, the seed may be an underground city type dungeon, which comes with certain architectural elements, texture sets, monster encounters, quests, etc and a possibility of certain "sub-seeds," like bandits hangout, vampire's crypt, basically any secondary use the structure also contains. That helps create a history around the site, from its origin as a town that was buried in a volcanic eruption to it later being discovered and inhabited by a forbidden cult forced to go literally underground by authorities."

"Yes. I am calling it dynamic generation not procedurally generated. A lot will be hand created (as it was in Daggerfall) but the code will fill in the blanks for terrain, architecture, NPCs, quests, etc"

"Dynamic" is our term, not "radiant," fwiw. It's not so binary between dynamic and fixed. Hard to explain without spoilers. I guess the plainest way to put it is there aren't any quests that won't be altered at least somewhat by things like the player's reputation with the quest giver, world and local situations, etc"

"nonlinear and branching endless quests, which evolve the world, like a great virtual gamemaster running a pen-and-paper campaign”"

"You want characters that make sense but aren’t necessarily predictable, because that’s boring. That’s a pretty important thing to grasp when designing storylines and AI, particularly in a dynamically created, non-scripted adventure."

"Real substance and depth to it, add persistence where the game learns, put in learning algorithms and neural network, where the game adapts to how you act - 'It can be done'"

 

[BigBooper]

Do you like the original Elder Scrolls? I never tried the ones before Morrowind. They seem pretty rough.

Ah well, always good to have more RPGs.

 

[Newly Vacant]

I'm going to assume this game is a modern take on Daggerfall, more systems focused and larger in general size than current Elder Scrolls. LeFay has an ambitious goal, and it'll be interesting to see if it actually comes together. As others have said, these kinds of games are usually expensive and time-consuming to produce. I'm going to keep my expectations low, but hope for the best.

 

[frogx]

I'm going to assume this game is a modern take on Daggerfall, more systems focused and larger in general size than current Elder Scrolls. LeFay has an ambitious goal, and it'll be interesting to see if it actually comes together. As others have said, these kinds of games are usually expensive and time-consuming to produce. I'm going to keep my expectations low, but hope for the best.

Daggerfall 25 years later by Lafey who will use modern technology, dream come true.

 

[Fuz]

My hype to this is second only to Cyberpunk 2077.

 

[Bigrx1]

The last 5 years have been a learning experience for myself that on paper big open world games sound super fun to me but in practice I always get bored of them retty quick. So, finally just realized I don’t like open world games much, so this will likely be a pass.

 

[frogx]

 

[frogx]

My hype to this is second only to Cyberpunk 2077.

For me it's nr 1 hyped game, there is no big money involved here, no big payed actors, just great developers sky high aiming to make the best possible single player game without any microtransactions or other shenaningans.

 

[Fuz]

For me it's nr 1 hyped game, there is no big money involved here, no big payed actors, just great developers sky high aiming to make the best possible single player game without any microtransactions or other shenaningans.

Yeah, but we know how Underworld Ascendant went...

 

[Fuz]

Didn't want to open a thread just for this, and it's kind of pertinent:

Skygerfall -- Daggerfall's Main Quest in TESV

This is an Alternate Start mod where you can play through the entire Main Quest of TESII: Daggerfall in the TESV engine, at the end of which you can choose to continue your character's adventures in S

www.nexusmods.com

 

[frogx]

 

[Starfield]

People expect Morrowind style rpgs are going to be dissapointed

 

[DeltaPolarBear]

People expect Morrowind style rpgs are going to be dissapointed

Well, I am expecting an RPG. Something Besthesda is distancing themselves from in every new game. So frankly it would be hard to make me disappointed unless they were going to copy Bethesda's recent efforts.

 

[Fuz]

People expect Morrowind style rpgs are going to be dissapointed

Not me.

I'm expecting something better than Morrowind. I hated Morrowind at the time, for how it dumbed down Daggerfall mechanics.

 

[Starfield]

Not me.

I'm expecting something better than Morrowind. I hated Morrowind at the time, for how it dumbed down Daggerfall mechanics.

Okay Boomer

 

[Enjay]

Over under on how long till a kickstarter appears?

 

[Gargus]

Board games and alcohol.

 

[anthraticus]

Not me.

I'm expecting something better than Morrowind. I hated Morrowind at the time, for how it dumbed down Daggerfall mechanics.

Yea, DF was pretty much superior and deeper than MW (and obviously the bs that came after) in most areas outside the lore and alien world. Def systems wise, it had a lot more going on.

The true Bethesda died after Lefay and Peterson left and Toddler & Rolston became project leaders.

Okay Boomer

 

[frogx]

World first ever RPG with 'Dungeon Master AI' and a 'story engine'

 

[frogx]

 

[nemiroff]

Indie.. Talent isn't enough these days for a massive open world 3D rpg. I guess most people expect a certain level of production value, so let's hope they have plenty of funding.

 

[The3DGameArtist]

It takes a long time to get a toolset in an engine robust like the ones they've got for Elder Scrolls or Fallout. Not everybody can just go up and do it which makes something like Kingdom Come even more impressive that they've managed to so well to re-create a similar feeling game to the Elder Scrolls series.

I'd be very sceptical in general for new studios saying things like "biggest ever, new revolutionary technology" because there is a reason why there haven't been lots of improvements since a decade back in terms of how you play the game or how NPCs react to you or the world around them.

But we'll see I guess

 

[frogx]

 

[Rhazer Fusion]

Controversial opinion. It’s nice that they are making another game, but I’m actually hoping it isn’t too massive.

 

[frogx]

 

[frogx]

 

[Inviusx]

Looking forward to it. Just don't make it too "generic fantasy". Elder scrolls works because the world is so fucking weird.

 

[Belmonte]

I'm very hyped but kind of worried about the scope of the game. This project seems so ambitious and in so many areas that I wish they don't spend too much time/money in the graphics trying to make everything shiny and modern.

What you guys would think if they use a more retro look? Like Call of Saregnar, but with more terrain complexity since it will be real time instead of turn based?



I like this art style a lot. Not only because nostalgia but because the abstract nature of the pixels. There is enough space for the player imagination to fill the blanks, which is perfect for this kind of game.

 

[synchronicity]

I'm very hyped but kind of worried about the scope of the game. This project seems so ambitious and in so many areas that I wish they don't spend too much time/money in the graphics trying to make everything shiny and modern.

What you guys would think if they use a more retro look? Like Call of Saregnar, but with more terrain complexity since it will be real time instead of turn based?



I like this art style a lot. Not only because nostalgia but because the abstract nature of the pixels. There is enough space for the player imagination to fill the blanks, which is perfect for this kind of game.

Absolutely. So much has been lost in the push for realism. Player engagement is minimized because so many games attempt to reduce things to mundane, real-world appearances. Why can books be so engaging? No graphics at all. Interpretive "reality" is a much better source for immersion in a pastime that is all about fantasy imo.

 

[Fuz]

Yeah, no, I want Lefay's Skyrim.

 

[StormCell]

We should support this game no matter how far short it falls compared to the goal.

The problem with Skyrim is that Bethesda is satisfied with it. It was released over 8 years ago, and there hasn't been any progress on the series since. It has stood still for nearly a decade. They continue to re-release the same ol' Skyrim at full price, and yet they are slow to push the series or genre forward.

Single player sandboxes with nearly limitless play are out. A fad that has passed for the publishers. I'd rather support an over-hyped experiment than to stick my nose up at it and basically prove greedy publishers right.

Besides, what many of us want is not another Skyrim but a more fully realized Morrowind/Oblivion. We don't need an sandbox template Elder Scrolls overflowing with world markers and quest markers. We want a more detailed world that is sufficient for pointing the way.

 

[OmaeWaMouShindiggity]

Give me single player Runescape.

 

[Reon]

God every time I see this thread bumped I get hopeful for some more in-depth details. I really should just play Daggerfall again, it's been so many years.

 

[anthraticus]

Besides, what many of us want is not another Skyrim but a more fully realized Morrowind/Oblivion. We don't need an sandbox template Elder Scrolls overflowing with world markers and quest markers. We want a more detailed world that is sufficient for pointing the way.

I think you mean a more realized Daggerfall/Morrowind. Oblivion is when they truly started going full retard and making games for imbeciles.

https://rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=129

 

[johntown]

Sounds like another Kingoms of Amalur to me. That little negativity aside I really hope it is a great hardcore RPG like the older Elder Scrolls games.

 

[StormCell]

I think you mean a more realized Daggerfall/Morrowind. Oblivion is when they truly started going full retard and making games for imbeciles.

https://rpgcodex.net/content.php?id=129

You're right. My memory of Oblivion is pretty skewed.

 

[StormCell]

The last 5 years have been a learning experience for myself that on paper big open world games sound super fun to me but in practice I always get bored of them retty quick. So, finally just realized I don’t like open world games much, so this will likely be a pass.

There are reasons for your boredom, and it's like you said: it's because in practice, the games aren't living up to your expectations. The big sand box games usually begin to disappoint me when I find where and how the developers cut corners in order to deliver on schedule. This usually shows up in the form of copy/paste content (examples: the Oblivion gates/levels, identical buildings/interiors throughout the world, lack of regionally unique content).

So I argue that it's not big sandbox worlds that you/others actually don't like, it's the shoddy implementation or, really, lack of coming into fruition. There's an uncanny valley that big world games must cross in order to maintain an illusion of being interesting, or it all begins to feel tedious like that long drive back to home that you find yourself making after holiday/vacation/etc.

It's my opinion that nothing will ever beat a big world crafted by hand by passionate folks who love RPGs who want to take RPG fans on the adventure of a lifetime. It's unfortunate the time, love, and commitment required to produce this on a modern scale are something that if bought probably wouldn't be as profitable as the mobile shit they can crank out for hundreds of millions in easy profits.

 

[frogx]

 

[frogx]

 

[Fuz]

There were HUNDREDS of hidden factions (that liked/disliked each other and influenced your standing in them) in Daggerfall. Hope they keep a similar system.

 

[SlimeGooGoo]

.