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Oroville Dam situation: evacuation order lifted, spillway repair underway

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Came up too my folks in yuba city after work yesterday. Staying the night here. The evacuation seems procatutionare as spilling 130,000 gallons per hour should help lower the level of the dam. It was crazy driving in the opposite direction from everyone else. Reminded me of that scene from Independence day. Stay safe, people are assholes due the panic and anxiety. Crazy seeing this thread on GAF, norcal gaf...Who would of thought.
 

TyrantII

Member
Another visual representation of the Dam/spillways. Emergency spillway and the area just left of it is having the issues right now.
PZpyJvQ.gif

I keep hearing the dam is safe, and sure technically it is. But what happens when that earthen spillway goes?

Is there bedrock in there that would limit the flow should the spillway cap be damaged?

Because if it's an earthen dam, this could get bad quickly next week once it starts raining again.
 

Armaros

Member
I keep hearing the dam is safe, and sure technically it is. But what happens when that earthen spillway goes?

Is there bedrock in there that would limit the flow should the spillway cap be damaged?

Because if it's an earthen dam, this could get bad quickly next week once it starts raining again.

They estimate about 30 ft of the lake will come down.
 

HTupolev

Member
They estimate about 30 ft of the lake will come down.
"30 feet" is the height of the concrete lip, so it's what would automatically flow out if the concrete lip washed out. I think TyrantII's question is whether the further situation of water overflowing directly on dirt could eat away further at the overflow level, creating a feedback loop where overflowage causes more overflowage. The answer seems to be that we don't know. From here:

The Bee: If the top ​of the emergency spillway ​goes, is that basically dam failure?

Countryman: It's not going to be the (main) embankment failure, but it's a failure. If it does happen, there's nothing saying that the ground is going to stay where it is. That force of water will start tearing that hill apart​,​ and it could eat back into the reservoir and drain the reservoir.

The Bee: If that happens​,​ is it a ”who knows what will happen?" situation?

Countryman: Yeah, it's speculation, but most of the speculation would be it's not good. It will be a helluva mess downstream. I think they're taking the right action. I think between now and Thursday​,​ when the next storm arrives, they need to get the reservoir down as low as they can. Tomorrow, they need to start grouting the hell out of that embankment to try to shut off where that leak is.
 

KDR_11k

Member
Good that it held up and people had enough time to evacuate, did the heli drops help with that? I can only imagine how many would have died if the dam had broken when the "within the hour" warning came.
 

fauxtrot

Banned
Good that it held up and people had enough time to evacuate, did the heli drops help with that? I can only imagine how many would have died if the dam had broken when the "within the hour" warning came.

They hadn't started the helicopter drops last night and as of a few hours ago still hadn't done any this morning. The article I read said the auxiliary spillway hadn't gotten worse overnight which is great. They can keep letting water out until the levels are much lower then close things up to potentially do work on both spillways before the next storms hit the area.
 

Surfinn

Member
Good that it held up and people had enough time to evacuate, did the heli drops help with that? I can only imagine how many would have died if the dam had broken when the "within the hour" warning came.
As far as I know they are loading the helicopters but haven't done drops yet. Least that's what it looked like here on local news.
 
What happens if the earth from emergency spillway is eroded by water flow ? Can it cause destruction of dam if too much is eroded ?
 

riotous

Banned
Good news this morning?

I can't tell from browsing news results; seems like they got the water level down significantly?
 
Good news this morning?

I can't tell from browsing news results; seems like they got the water level down significantly?

Not sure I would call it significant, and the main reason is a new system is about to bring a weeks worth of rain to this area. Not out of the woods yet.
 

Tovarisc

Member
Good news this morning?

I can't tell from browsing news results; seems like they got the water level down significantly?

They got volume of water pouring under control for now and they are still lowering level of lake so force / pressure on dams is lowered. They are inspecting what if any damage to spillway and its dam was done over night. Expect some repairs and reinforcements to it as rains etc. are expected over course of the week. Main spillway most likely will be totally fucked after this all is over, it was already damaged badly and they are just burning it now.

^ based on what I have read / heard here and there today
 

muteki

Member
So are they now just sending water down the (still damaged) main spillway? Wonder why they didn't just do that from the beginning. On the news they said it would take another ~3 days to get the water to a level where they can shut it off and start repairing.

Hopefully it doesn't get any worse. Growing up in a similar area a dam failing is just something you try not to think about.
 

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
So are they now just sending water down the (still damaged) main spillway? Wonder why they didn't just do that from the beginning. On the news they said it would take another ~3 days to get the water to a level where they can shut it of and start repairing.

They didn't want to risk making the damage worse, they didn't open it up until they were forced to.

Looks like so far there's been no further damage and they'll continue to use the main spillway for now until the water levels go down further, but there's still a chance of further degradation the longer they use it.
 

Ding II

Member
As I understand it the root cause of this situation is the primary spillway being unusable when the dam was almost full. If they were able to safely use it they could have just lowered the water level. At the same time heavy rain is the most likely time for a sinkhole to form so it makes me wonder why this was the backup plan in the first place.

The main spillway became damaged. The dam operators chose to stop using that spillway. They did this for a few reasons: To allow them to inspect the damage. To prevent further (expensive) damage to the spillway. To prevent further mud from being eroded into the river, which would harm the fish hatcheries downstream. And, I believe, to hopefully prevent some power towers that were close to the main spillway from getting taken out.

Once they determined that the spillway was so fucked that it couldn't really get more fucked, and that the water was running pretty clean through the damaged areas, and they moved lots of the baby fish further downstream, they started using the main spillway again. Lightly. Only letting a little water through. The new plan was to let water come over the emergency spillway, once the lake rose that far.

They ran around below the emergency spillway (weir) with bulldozers, clearing out trees and debris so said debris would not end up in the river.

Water then started going over the emergency spillway (weir), and more alarmingly, over the parking lot and picnic area to the left of the weir. Erosion started occurring below the weir, which was expected. Erosion started occurring below the parking lot, which wasn't expected. And then, really bad erosion started happening somewhere in there which threatened to work its way up the hill and undercut the weir, or maybe the parking lot, which could cause the entire thing to wash away.

At this point they freaked the fuck out and called for evacuations. "Exercising an abundance of caution." Covering their asses, in other words. Crazy and doomed plans involving helicopters were discussed. Claims were made that the weir was an hour away from failing. None of that happened, but they did decide to open up the main spillway again because, fuck, we're totally gonna get fired if mainstreet Oroville floods.

The dam is not in danger. The main spillway is not in "danger", since it's already pretty fucked and will need to be rebuilt regardless. The power lines may be fucked, but who cares because the hydro plant was shut down some time ago. The baby fish are either rescued or doomed at this point. The emergency weir may or may not be fucked, but if it goes, it'll only be semi-catastrophic because "only" 10-20 feet of water depth would escape before the lip of the hill was scoured right down to the underlying rock. Hopefully. You don't want to risk some other weakness (read: a crack in said rock) being exposed.

At least that's what I understand. The various news agencies are spewing a mountain of bad info, so it's difficult to get the straight skinny.
 

Tovarisc

Member
So are they now just sending water down the (still damaged) main spillway? Wonder why they didn't just do that from the beginning. On the news they said it would take another ~3 days to get the water to a level where they can shut it of and start repairing.

Hopefully it doesn't get any worse. Growing up in a similar area a dam failing is just something you try not to think about.

Yeah, they are currently using main spillway to lower lakes level even further. I think they hoped they don't need use it at all because extensive damage to it, but emergency spillway failed in big way so they had to bring main spillway back into play. I'm not surprised if main spillway is utterly fucked after they can shut it off, volume of water they are running through it is insane and will wear it further.

In ~3 days also heavy rains should start, filling lake back up and we may be back in square one.

Rough week ahead for dam and engineers on site.
 

Chococat

Member
So are they now just sending water down the (still damaged) main spillway? Wonder why they didn't just do that from the beginning.

The main spillway was damaged. They feared release the water would further erode the spillway near the dam.

When water flowed over the emergency spillway, it began to erode the dirt mountain. Fearing that would be just as bad, they gambled and opened up the spillway to lower the lake level.

They were lucky that (so far) no critical failure erosion happened.

That is my understanding so far.

EDI: Ding II explanation is better than mine ;).
 

SkyOdin

Member
What happens if the earth from emergency spillway is eroded by water flow ? Can it cause destruction of dam if too much is eroded ?
The emergency spillway is essentially part of the hillside right next to the dam. The damaged part is located a short distance away from the dam itself. Now, the dam is complete intact right now, but if that hillside collapses a huge amount of water can still be released. The estimation is that 30 feet of the lake could be released, and that could very easily trigger even larger collapses.

In short, if a serious problem happens, the towns downriver could be wiped out completely. As it is, if we get lucky and things remain stable, the state is already looking at a $100 million to $200 million repair bill.
 
This is why they are releasing the water down the damaged spillway as fast as they can:

An approaching storm has added new urgency to the Department of Water Resources' frantic efforts to reduce water levels at Oroville Dam by 50 feet.

Rain is expected to begin falling late Wednesday and continue through the weekend, according to Tom Dang, a National Weather Service meteorologist in Sacramento.

At least 3 inches of rain is expected to fall on Oroville, while the surrounding mountains and foothills could get up to 8 inches of rain by Monday.

http://www.latimes.com/local/califo...forecast-as-workers-1487004027-htmlstory.html
 

RedHill

Banned
I stayed home last night. Not really concerned as this doesn't appear to be as drastic as it was when the evacuation was put in place. The real dangers last night were outside my home with people acting like lunatics
 

muteki

Member
Ok that all makes more sense. In my mind the emergency spillway seemed like more of a last resort. At least there isn't a nuclear station attached like the one back home.
 
I stayed home last night. Not really concerned as this doesn't appear to be as drastic as it was when the evacuation was put in place. The real dangers last night were outside my home with people acting like lunatics
During my drive to Chico I seen so many broken down vehicles along the side of the road on hwy 70 and 99. I left after midnight.
 

Surfinn

Member
Live update on KCRA 3, sounds like things are going according to plan and water levels continue to drop. Evacuation is still in effect and will be until local officials state otherwise. They're trying to lower the water enough to combat incoming storms in the coming days. They say there's still a lot of unpredictable variables though and they're monitoring/evaluating the situation.
 

Allard

Member
So Im guessing that the temporary fix is going well? I dont think I would go back until news of this patch job comes through.

There is no fix, temporary or otherwise. What has happened is they are forcing water down the main damaged spillway because they have no other choice. At this point they are hoping the damaged spillway can keep overall erosion to a minimum so that when the rainy season ends they can go in and do a proper long term fix, there is no temporary fixing that spillway, due to erosion and the size of the hole it likely will take months to actually get it back to the way it is supposed to and that is being generous.

The lake is no longer going over the emergency spillway which is what the evacuation concerns were about especially since it was spilling over into the parking lot adjacent to the spill way which does not have the lip covered in concrete which means possible erosion underneath the main lip which could have caused the whole wall of the spillway to collapse. The main issue is rain, and lots of it, is coming in about 3 days. They are trying to empty the lake as much as they can in as controlled a condition as they can in preparation for the rain, while doing so the main spillway is still being used which they don't want to use but have to because they have no other choice. Its still very dire just nothing of immediate concern at the moment.
 
This has the potential to be a total disaster. If the dam fails it not only damages the people around the immediate area but it will also affect the entire state. Oroville is one of the dams used to store water and if it fails then SoCal will get fucked too along with NorCal.

Stay safe everyone and please evacuate if you have been ordered too! Dam failures aren't like rising floodwaters. Once it fails, you will have no chance of escape!
 

RedHill

Banned
This has all been incredibly stressful. If the dam fails, my home will be destroyed. My life will be destroyed. This could've been avoided because they knew this has been coming for years.
 
This has all been incredibly stressful. If the dam fails, my home will be destroyed. My life will be destroyed. This could've been avoided because they knew this has been coming for years.

California really should start massive infrastructure and maintenance projects even without the aid of the Federal government. It will create tons of jobs and help save our critical infrastructure. Tax me more if you have to.
 
I'm not sure how low the lake got in the drought years but it's hard to imagine how CA could recover from completely losing their second largest reservoir (not to mention the damage from the collapse).
 

fauxtrot

Banned
Anyone that knows more than me want to poke holes in my train of thought below to make me feel better?

According to the DWR Director last night, they wanted to lower the water level by about 50 feet before the next storm, and he said the previous week's storm raised the reservoir's water level by about 50 feet.

Now it sounds like they are shooting for lowering the water level 20-30 feet before the next storm(s) due to the rate they can safely release water. Is this because they're anticipating less water filling into the reservoir from the upcoming storm(s)? Less than 30 feet doesn't even fully take the pressure off of the emergency spillway's concrete walls...
 

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
For some perspective, here's what's going on at another California dam:

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Shasta-Dam-sees-biggest-release-in-decades-as-10929327.php

Water releases from Shasta Lake are at the highest in 20 years as the lake nears full capacity Monday.

The lake stood at 96 percent of capacity and 137 percent of the historical average, as of midnight Monday, according to the California Department of Water Resources.

Water officials are releasing 70,000 cubic feet per second (cfs) from Shasta Dam as the lake stands just 5 feet from the top of the reservoir, the Shasta County Sheriff's Office said.


"This is higher than it should be for this point in time," the sheriff's office said. "The release is necessary for space to allow future storms and to prevent uncontrolled release and flooding."

The reservoir holds 4,552,000 acre-feet and stood at nearly 4,400,000 acre-feet in Shasta Lake, as of early Monday morning, DWR records show.
 

XiaNaphryz

LATIN, MATRIPEDICABUS, DO YOU SPEAK IT
Oroville Dam: California officials ignored warnings a decade ago: http://edition.cnn.com/2017/02/13/u...ings-ignored1026PMVODtopPhoto&linkId=34459993

Given the general budget issues going on back then, the financial crisis that hit a few years later, and then all those years of drought, it's not hard to see how a lot of the recommendations were pushed aside.

I'd suggest they have plenty of impetus to get going now after the rainy season subsides, but after those years of surplus once again there are budget issues again due to "accounting errors."
 
Given the general budget issues going on back then, the financial crisis that hit a few years later, and then all those years of drought, it's not hard to see how a lot of the recommendations were pushed aside.

I'd suggest they have plenty of impetus to get going now after the rainy season subsides, but after those years of surplus once again there are budget issues again due to "accounting errors."

Hopefully this highlights the new need for spending on infrastructure. If any state can do it it's California with its Democratic supermajorities.
 

Phreaker

Member
Rep Garamendi was just on Maddow. What a terrible situation. He was saying they are not only worried about later this week, but the rainiest time of year is yet to come. I really hope they can get it shored up, that's a huge evacuation.
 
So are they now just sending water down the (still damaged) main spillway? Wonder why they didn't just do that from the beginning. On the news they said it would take another ~3 days to get the water to a level where they can shut it off and start repairing.

Hopefully it doesn't get any worse. Growing up in a similar area a dam failing is just something you try not to think about.


I grew up under the vapor cloud of a nuclear power plant that I could see from my bedroom window, the playground at school, and basically everywhere else in town. It looked EXACTLY like Springfield's power plant:

latest


My parents would talk about the incidents at Three Mile Island and Chernobyl, and tell me that it could happen to us at any second, and that we were too close to even bother trying to escape. I used to just straight up stare at it and wonder if I was close enough to die instantly, or if I would die slowly from the radiation.

This dam keeps reminding me of that power plant, and I feel bad for the kids that live there. Even if they fix it I'm sure it'll always be in the back of their minds that it could fail again.
 

Tovarisc

Member
6:20 p.m.
Gov. Jerry Brown is asking the Trump administration for federal assistance in responding to a potential failure of a spillway at the Oroville Dam in Northern California.

In a letter to President Donald Trump released Monday, Brown asks for help for the three Northern California counties affected.

Brown says aid is needed to assist the 188,000 residents of Butte, Sutter and Yuba counties who were ordered to evacuate Sunday after concerns an emergency spillway could give way, unleashing a gush of water to downstream towns.

Brown has criticized Trump on many of his initiatives, but at a news conference Monday he lauded the president's plan to invest $1 trillion on infrastructure.

The governor says California and Washington will work "in a constructive way" to repair failing infrastructure in the state.


AP updates as things evolve: https://apnews.com/a37383d4a96b496f...n=SocialFlow&utm_source=Twitter&utm_medium=AP

Edit: Trump can get political capital with this if handled right
 
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