last quarter ms had $5billion revenue, not the whole year
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Outriders retails at 17% in UK on Xbox (due to being free to all XGPU subscribers), PlayStation 4/5 has 83% of retail sales
- Thread starter Mr.NiceGuy
- Start date
Zoro7
Banned
Right now Microsoft is throwing money at everything. Its not bad for Square Enix. Right now everything is great.
But there will come a time when shareholders will want to see a return on this investment and that's when prices will start to increase. Quote me!
Salty Popsicle
Banned
Yes, but according to some fanatics on the other side, everyone who has GP got 3 years worth for only $1 and Microsoft is bludgeoning money every second.
If the game bombs on Playstation, Steam that would be more of a case for Game Pass.
That its selling well across the board everywhere....except Xbox....I fail to see how this is an indicator about how great Game Pass is. There are no tears or salt, sorry to disappoint. Only logic. I dont understand how some of yall are trying to debate this.
Its good for what it offers....but it also shows that the traditional model of actually selling games is here to stay. For now.
Remember how Crackdown 3 was in the top ten played? Good times.
That its selling well across the board everywhere....except Xbox....I fail to see how this is an indicator about how great Game Pass is. There are no tears or salt, sorry to disappoint. Only logic. I dont understand how some of yall are trying to debate this.
Its good for what it offers....but it also shows that the traditional model of actually selling games is here to stay. For now.
Remember how Crackdown 3 was in the top ten played? Good times.
Interfectum
Member
The mental gymnastics you did here is nothing short of legendary. I mean, holy shit. Frame this post.
fermcr
Member
All I hear is how BAD Gamepass is for developers... so, I wounder why so many developers are putting their games on Gamepass?
I also wounder how a service like Netflix makes money when they spend millions and millions on series and movies? I guess that's BAD for movie stars, producers and other people working on movies...
I also wounder how a service like Netflix makes money when they spend millions and millions on series and movies? I guess that's BAD for movie stars, producers and other people working on movies...
dcmk7
Banned
Who are saying it's bad for developers?
Yes all bad, if you let GAF everything is still on 8track/vinyl/tape.. I mean CD, no I mean discs . Roar
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Interfectum
Member
Console warriors are used to comparing retail game sales as a win vs loss. As Game Pass starts taking over Xbox completely retail sales are going to tank. This will push the perception on forums that Game Pass is bad for developers and only MS money is keeping them propped up. They'll just ignore and/or write off the massive subscriber number Game Pass has going forward. If UK retail sales are bad, Xbox is a flop.
yazenov
Member
Gamepass was introduced as a Panic button last resort when Microsoft was demolished by the PS4 and the software sales were lopsided towards the PS4. That was the only way Microsoft can compete with Sony.
Its amusing when I see people trying to downplay the huge split in sales and blaming it on gamepass. Even before gamepass was introduced, the split was 65% to 80% in favor of the PS4 depending on the game genre. People are buying more software on the PS4 simply because of the userbase. More hardware = more software.
And you see this with every multiplatform game that doesn't launch on gamepass day 1. Its the same split.
Now imagine what is the split like outside of the UK and US (UK and US are Xbox stongest markets) . Microsoft is in trouble.
Its amusing when I see people trying to downplay the huge split in sales and blaming it on gamepass. Even before gamepass was introduced, the split was 65% to 80% in favor of the PS4 depending on the game genre. People are buying more software on the PS4 simply because of the userbase. More hardware = more software.
And you see this with every multiplatform game that doesn't launch on gamepass day 1. Its the same split.
Now imagine what is the split like outside of the UK and US (UK and US are Xbox stongest markets) . Microsoft is in trouble.
Mikey Jr.
Member
After a DECADE of borrowing 16 BILLION dollars, netflix actually made a small profit this year. Helped by the coronavirus.
They still have 15 billion dollars in debt though......
Netflix Will No Longer Borrow, Ending Its Run of Debt (Published 2021)
The streaming giant borrowed over $16 billion in less than a decade as it built out its content library. The strategy prompted criticism that the company was unsustainable.
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Interfectum
Member
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Please frame it. And revisit this post the entire generation.
So explain it to me. Because I dont see any counters from you to what I said.
Lets try elementary math:
Multi platform Game A doesnt launch on GP, 60-40 split in favor of Playstation.
Multi platform Game B launches on GP, 83-17 split in favor of Playstation.
The amount can still be the same, but the % can change....because it sold less on XBox. Explicitly because its on Game Pass.
Hey, also revisit this when the NPD info comes out.
Some of yall act like SE would be pissed that it sold more on another platform.
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Interfectum
Member
I know you are smarter than this...
1. A game doesn't have to bomb on competing platforms to be a 'win' for Game Pass.
2. The entire point of getting Outriders on Game Pass is to entice Xbox users to subscribe instead of purchase the game.
3. You literally no idea of the actual player base on Outriders. For all you know it could be 10 to 1 on Xbox vs PS5. All you have is a percentage of physical sales in the UK.
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gamechanger87
Member
The data will be in the usage. The game will likely sell worse on Xbox because of game pass. The real question is the length of the tail revenue from being on game pass vs the other platforms.
If the game makes more money via game pass due to the game now being available to all GPU users and there is a longer shelf life to the game and a longer tail on revenue then its a great choice by the publisher to put it out that way.
This game will live or die by its community. SoT has survived and thrived because of its available to all GP users. The revenue tail has been great and the community sustained because more people can get access to it and play it. This game will be structured similarly. GP means you have a much larger community readily available which will enable the game to live for a long time and make more money.
On the other platforms, if the games community doesn't take off out of the gate you are headed down a bad path. You need to convince people to buy and play the game, rather than just making it better and having it available.
The game will sell worse on Xbox because its on game pass. However, the money made by the publisher and the tail on revenue is to be seen.
Interfectum
Member
I mean you can still use retail sales in the UK and NPD all you want. Have fun with these 'wins' but they aren't going to be very relevant in the near future. I'm sure you'll write off the 40, 50, 60 million subs Game Pass will eventually have as $1 giveaways too.
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sainraja
Member
Alright?
Those are not my arguments. I can't believe I have to explain this but I was simply pointing out that people who want to discuss that can and should be allowed to discuss it without anyone getting offended or upset by it. We don't really know what the future of gaming is going to look like and personally I am taking the wait and see approach but there are things I would not like to happen and I mention that anytime I get the chance and it makes sense to mention my thoughts.
But yeah, those are points you should be bring up in conversations that have to do with game pass instead of using labels to discredit what people might be saying.
1. If it bombs on other platforms....game pass becomes much more important, relevant....because it didnt sell across the board. Game Pass is a nice safety net.
2. I get what the point of game pass is for xbox users, we all should get the point. Its also a better incentive for SE because they dont have to rely solely on sales on Xbox.
3. You're right. No one does. And yes this is just the UK. But I said this days, weeks ago in another thread: What metric are we gonna use....because at first glance it will be sales vs users/downloads.
I wonder what the initial player base was of Crackdown 3, and months later.....because that also was in the top 10 played.
One of the few points that makes sense. Thank you.
Eventually the $1 deal will be gone. Because at some point like many said the goal is to make a profit.
Btw..seeing a disagreement as a win or loss is the first problem.
Exactly.
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Oddvintagechap
Member
Math is hard.
17% represents the percentage of copies that were sold on Xbox Series. Not that 17% of Xbox series owners bought outriders. 17% share of games sales could represent 100% of Xbox series owners.
No. ONLY 206% more. PS5 copies sold more than three times than Xbox Series copies. LMAO you cant just do 52%-17%.
DenchDeckard
Moderated wildly
We just literally witnessed games raising in price to 70 dollars thanks to Sony. Yes, pricing may increase on gamepass but games might become 80 dollars. We are already seeing pointless 100 dollar versions of games as well as having micro transactions and season passes.
...here is a tough fact to swallow sometimes. Everything has the chance to go up in price and probably will.
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Sygma
Member
I mean its only for xbox consoles, game literally has the biggest launch out of any SE games on pc on steam. Can't imagine what the overall number is for this game, and I'm very happy to see that its a success for PCF
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Bumblebeetuna
Gold Member
Phil Spencer: Game Pass leads to more game sales
This past weekend's X018 event was, arguably, a two-hour long advertisement for Game Pass, and given what Microsoft gam…www.gamesindustry.biz
So quick to shit post based on one week of retail UK sales?
I know when I enjoy a game on GamePass that I already have digitally installed on my system and can get a good discount to buy through the service, I instead opt to go out and pay more and buy physical.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Simple.
Annual sub plan sales > Annual costs = Profit
Anything to do with debt load and cash flow can be subjective how it affects annual numbers. Those two aren't even income statement metrics.
If NF is still making profit since 2003 with giant debt (interest expense), it means they must be doing decent to cover it and still make money.
They are investing a lot into content/infrastructure like Amazon did.
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I mean all PR are lies anyway, so are Sony come to think of it, they're already slowly doing what gamepass offers, so uhh. Don't be so blind sighted.
Starting to wonder if you think or just ignorant, maybe both. It's actually not an ouch, they've made the money back from it being on gamepass.
Aguero9320
Member
Kerotan
Member
I already have an MLB they gave us for free in the past year and guess what I didn't download it. So I won't be buying the new one either.I already got an mbko ahead and spend $70 to play it then. And then spend $70 next month to play MLB. Whereas il play both for free
I buy my games on the USA store which works out cheap for EU players. I also get most of them cheap on sale 6 months to a year after. And I get full ownership not a rental I'm tied to.
Goalus
Member
Delicious
Calverz
Gold Member
On xbox u can buy off argentina store which is cheap. You can then pay 50% of that reduced price if u digital share with a friend.....
Game Pass is making people lose their damn minds. Dude thinks he's using logic lmao.
assurdum
Banned
Anyone knows what's developers revenue to publish a game on gamepass the day one compared to sell it in a digital store? Because maybe for gaas gamepass could be worth it. But I don't understand how much cash flow can lead to the softwarehouse a game on gamepass from the day one. It's confusing to me.
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IntentionalPun
Ask me about my wife's perfect butthole
That's hardly shocking. They likely got a fat check, any day one AAA game will.
And.. it will leave GamePass in a few months, and any players that stuck around will have to buy it anyways.
And.. it will leave GamePass in a few months, and any players that stuck around will have to buy it anyways.
gamechanger87
Member
Agree 100%. Wouldn't be surprised to see them go bankrupt within the next 12 - 18 months. Investing into the gaming channel with $7.5B on Bethesda and then potentially $10B on Discord will be the death knell for the company.
Nikana
Go Go Neo Rangers!
Balducci30
Member
People losing their damn minds over gamepass lol - some of you just don’t like nice things huh?
prinz_valium
Member
Compared to the > 2x ps4 install base, ps4 has no 2x software sales advantage over Xbox.
So xbox has more software sales per console sold.
I wouldn't put it pass some of the posters here.
Monkeygourmet
Banned
Delicious
betrayal
Banned
You have to admit, though, that he's right. GP is nothing more than making existing products available to customers at low cost. No new values are created that would not have existed without GP.
This is great for the customer, but bad for the industry, because MS learns that it is enough to make the customer happy through price instead through innovation.
It's like McDonald's and a Michelin-starred restaurant. Of course, many people like to eat at McDonald's because it's cheap and tastes good at first. But in comparison, it has little to do with quality and innovation.
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Aguero9320
Member
It really is like Netflix, Spotify, Disney+, Apple Music etc never happened to some of you
It’s 2021, I can subscribe to Roomba ffs.
It’s like fucking Jurassic Park or Cocoon in here.
It’s 2021, I can subscribe to Roomba ffs.
It’s like fucking Jurassic Park or Cocoon in here.
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Goalus
Member
On a more serious note - they will always need a highly efficient, lowest-common-denominator hardware that serves as a reference system for xCloud developers. And such a system is essentially a console, therefore I highly doubt MS will get out of the console business anytime soon.
Malcolm9
Member
I would imagine the vast majority have though. That's not a bad thing for the consumer but I doubt MS want to be giving it away longterm.
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small_law
Member
That I didn't know. Saved me a bad purchase. I appreciate it
You're looking at it from completely the wrong direction.
It's about better monetizing those people that don't actually buy any video games. The value to core gamers is basically secondary.
There are ~120m PS4s in the wild. Ghost of Tsushima sold 6.5m copies. That means despite all the hype, the great reviews, the excitement, ~115m PlayStation 4 owners didn't buy a copy of one of the biggest games of last year. They didn't buy Final Fantasy VII. They didn't buy The Last of Us 2.
And those 6.5m copies aren't fully priced. That's with nearly a year of discounts and deals. That's with hundreds of thousands or even millions of lost sales through the used market.
What's better? To get 20m people to spend $15 or to get 6.5m to spend somewhere between $60 and $30, if they bought it at all?
GP isn't about making existing products available to customers at low cost. It's about taking the hundreds of millions of gamers who buy maybe three or four games a generation, or those people who wait for heavy discounts, or who scab off their friend's accounts, or who buy used, and it's saying "if you subscribe, you can have all this stuff day one without all the hassle."
"And, oh, by the way, subscribe for the next seven years, because every single month we'll give you something worth you're time."
They're making the same amount of money, if not more. The product is just as good - in fact the product is identical most the time. It's just on one console you'll have to pay $70 and on the other you'll get it through your subscription.
yazenov
Member
Actually we have numbers for Monster Hunter World, one of the biggest Multiplatfrom game last generation. The split was not pretty for Microsoft.
MHW PS4: 8.693 Million
MHW Xbox: 1.789 million
The PS4 version outsold the Xbox One version by 4.86 times.
Ps4 Ice borne: 4.545 million
Xbox IB 448k
Ps4 version outsold the Xbox approximately 10x.