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[LQX]

???

The only guy in overwatch who's in a tight body suit is Genji.

Junkrat, Roadhog, Soldier: 76 and Hanzo all have outfits that show show their bare chest.

Widowmaker, Tracer and D.Va have body suits but to me they are the equivalent of the bare-chest and the form fitting outfits most of the male heroes are also wearing.

Even Reaper has form fitting alt outfit

 

[Toxi]

Junkrat, Roadhog, Soldier: 76 and Hanzo all have outfits that show show their bare chest.

That's not a tight body suit.

Even Reaper has form fitting alt outfit

I was mainly talking about default costumes, but sure, toss that on the list.

 

[SirPinkyNose]

Isn't Pharah literally a machine with a human head, though? She doesn't have any room for elbows or knees, and her model clearly shows her without room for limbs in her "suit".

I'm not making much of a point here, just saying that Pharah is closer to Bastion or Zenyatta than she is to other human characters.

Nope. Her lore says nothing about her being injured or disabled. Only that she's wearing a suit.
Whether is her suit requires her bodyparts being chopped off is another story, but it's only assumption.

 

[LQX]

That's not a tight body suit.


I was mainly talking about default costumes, but sure, toss that on the list.

Come on, a tight outfit is tight outfit. Put some of those outfits the men are wearing on the women and most would still find them very "sexy" as they are form fitting.

 

[the1npc]

People follow the story of overwatch?

 

[Toxi]

Whether is her suit requires her bodyparts being chopped off is another story, but it's only assumption.

Is this gonna be the new "Star Fox characters are all amputees" rumor?

 

[Akainu]

How else does one play Overwatch without buying it?

Multiple accounts on a system? Sounds the same as that billions hours on *name of system*

 

[Toxi]

Come on, a tight outfit is tight outfit. Put some of those outfits the men are wearing on the women and most would still find them very "sexy" as they are form fitting.

I'm not debating their sex appeal, I'm just telling you those aren't tight clothing.

 

[Wavebossa]

That's not a tight body suit.

How is that not a tight body suit?

EDIT: Well not a body suit, but tight clothing yes

 

[Aselith]

Even Reaper has form fitting alt outfit

He's got a hoodie on, my friend. What are you doing with your life right now?

 

[Toxi]

How is that not a tight body suit?

???

Tight=/=revealing

He's got a hoodie on, my friend. What are you doing with your life right now?

His shirt is pretty tight.

Not that it's anywhere near Widow or Genji.

Edit: I forgot about Soldier 76's goofy alternate with the cape. So three male characters, two of which are alternate costumes. Hardly most of them.

 

[Kinyou]

This is gonna blow your mind, but people like seeing characters like them in their videogames and movies, crazy i know, but you know, it really brightens their day.

How many 61 year old players are out there who were just waiting to finally be represented by Reinhardt?
And when we look at a game like Team Fortress 2, which has no senior team members, should we consider that an issue?

I can see an argument to be made about general diversity and beauty standards, but when it comes to age I imagine the number of people above 60 who crave representation is rather minor

 

[PSqueak]

People follow the story of overwatch?

The main appeal of OW is the characters and their lore, otherwise it would be just a TF2 clone with moba influences.

How many 61 year old players are out there who were just waiting to finally be represented by Reinhardt?
And when we look at a game like Team Fortress 2, which has no senior team members, should we consider that an issue?

I can see an argument to be made about general diversity and beauty standards, but when it comes to age I imagine the number of people above 60 who crave representation is rather slim.

The thing is, this age argument is more about how it's tangentially sexist for women to not be allowed to be presented as old and instead forever youthful and within the standards of western beauty rather than allow the older women to show signs of age, which means it puts women characters in a lower status than the male characters because they have to be eye candy and thus hurting women in general representation.

NOT SAYING I AGREE WITH THE SENTIMENT, but rather that i understand where people in that stand are coming from, and as someone who doesn't see enough representation of his own people in games i can in the very least empathize with their desire for better representation. So that's why i felt like replying to the question of why everyone wants to be represented.

 

[Wavebossa]

???

Tight=/=revealing


His shirt is pretty tight.

Not that it's anywhere near Widow or Genji.

True.

I still feel that the men have more revealing outfits overall than the women if we are including all alts

 

[B-Genius]

Everything's open to criticism, but I find Overwatch to be extremely non-offensive with its varied and colourful lineup. Definitely one of the more inclusive games out there in terms of who/what is represented, especially for its genre.

Sure, there are some things that could be considered as placed for male gaze or what-have-you (Widowmaker's outfit probably being the most suggestive), but overall the balance is good. I never considered age to be a factor, but I guess it's an interesting point.

What I don't like is the "they can't" reaction to things like this. It's perfectly clear that they can add more mature females and more robotic females to their lineup in future. They just haven't yet.

Also for the record, just because someone's in a (tight) body suit doesn't automatically mean they're sexualised. If you have a problem with a character's body language or voice lines or general behaviour, then that'd probably present a more substantial argument.

 

[Toxi]

True.

I still feel that the men have more revealing outfits overall than the women if we are including all alts

Not gonna disagree there.

 

[Whom_Gods_Annoy]

I know this is a little off topic, but genuine question: do you consider female sexualization in videogames to be an inherently bad thing?

 

[Alcotholic]

The Ageism/sexism thing is an interesting point to bring up. I had never thought about it before.
But I think there are games more deserving of criticism in female or minority representation only due to the fact that Overwatch is already very inclusive. And whose to say they don't have an old woman as a new character in the works anyway?

 

[Aselith]

I know this is a little off topic, but genuine question: do you consider female sexualization in videogames to be an inherently bad thing?

Yes widespread and systematic sexualization is inherently bad. It's fine for things to have sex and sexuality but that's not what's meant when people say sexualization.

 

[PSqueak]

I know this is a little off topic, but genuine question: do you consider female sexualization in videogames to be an inherently bad thing?

In many ways yeah, mostly in the sense that it keeps the medium immature and stunted, there is place for sexualization in general, but videogames hardly use it appropiately, for example, i don't care how good the gameplay it is, i don't care she was designed by a woman as a power fantasy, the overly sexualized design of bayonetta made me pass on the games.

Gratuitous violence is the same, i mean, Mortal Kombat can get away with it because it's cartoony and over the top and ultimately silly, but overly violent games that try to pass it as serious come off as very immature (like GoW...both series that go by that acronym).

 

[Toxi]

The Ageism/sexism thing is an interesting point to bring up. I had never thought about it before.
But I think there are games more deserving of criticism in female or minority representation only due to the fact that Overwatch is already very inclusive. And whose to say they don't have an old woman as a new character in the works anyway?

In Overwatch it's just very noticeable because it's a popular new game with 21 very unique characters, a few of whom are visibly older men. With such a diverse cast, the lack of older women does stick out, especially since it's such a common trend in video games.

 

[Wavebossa]

I know this is a little off topic, but genuine question: do you consider female sexualization in videogames to be an inherently bad thing?

Yes of course. There are some characters that overt sex appeal doesn't really mesh with their personalities.

If you are having a hard time thinking of this, think of men instead.

If Tony Stark had a costume that was designed to ooze sex appeal, it would make sense given his character.

If Spiderman's costume was half naked with short shorts, it wouldn't match Peter Parkers personality. We would say "umm why is Peter dressed like that?"

Sadly we don't notice it as much when its women. Like women in body armor but still find ways to show breast and buttocks... and their character is introverted

 

[Toxi]

Can I just say how hilarious it is that the Overwatch animation set in Mexico starred the All-American dude born in Indiana?

 

[Monocle]

"Non-ludotypical body types."

Huh.

 

[Odrion]

Junkrat, Roadhog, Soldier: 76 and Hanzo all have outfits that show show their bare chest.

Reread my post, yknow, the part that said "young hot men in revealing outfits".

edit: like seriously did you just try to use roadhog as an example of a sexualized male

double edit: seriously?!

triple edit: fucking seriously?!?!

 

[Whom_Gods_Annoy]

Yes of course. There are some characters that overt sex appeal doesn't really mesh with their personalities.

If you are having a hard time thinking of this, think of men instead.

If Tony Stark had a costume that was designed to ooze sex appeal, it would make sense given his character.

If Spiderman's costume was half naked with short shorts, it wouldn't match Peter Parkers personality. We would say "umm why is Peter dressed like that?"

Sadly we don't notice it as much when its women. Like women in body armor but still find ways to show breast and buttocks... and their character is introverted

This kind of example is more of what I was getting at. I guess I should have put more emphasis on the "inherently" part of my question.

I'll ask a different type of question: If you were given the choice of either having the sexualization of many of the female characters already in the game toned down or adding new characters that are not as sexualized, which would you prefer?

 

[zaccheus]

Reread my post, yknow, the part that said "young hot men in revealing outfits".

edit: like seriously did you just try to use roadhog as an example of a sexualized male

double edit: seriously?!

triple edit: fucking seriously?!?!

Theres a lot of roadhog porn..

 

[NimbusD]

Did anyone think that Overwatch was good about this stuff?

I'll give blizzard points for being responsive, but not for having foresight. i.e. tracer pose change, but her pants are still up her asshole and she has two straps just outlining her ass and was designed that way.

I'm pretty sure even if we get an elderly female character, she won't look much different, bodywise from the younger ones, just look at mercy.

 

[NEO0MJ]

True.

I still feel that the men have more revealing outfits overall than the women if we are including all alts

Revealing outfits don't always equal sexualized. I doubt most people consider Road Hog attractive. Sure there might be some that might find his design attractive but then again there are people who find My Little Pony attractive

 

[Toxi]

Theres a lot of roadhog porn..

Porn existing of a character isn't really a measure of what's sexualized or not. People are gonna make porn of anyone.

Just look at the amount of Pokemon porn on the net.

 

[LQX]

I'm not debating their sex appeal, I'm just telling you those aren't tight clothing.

Well we will have to disagree. I think it is tight clothing. May not be a latex bodysuit but still form fitting which gives them "sex appeal" more-so than clothing that is not.

Reread my post, yknow, the part that said "young hot men in revealing outfits".

edit: like seriously did you just try to use roadhog as an example of a sexualized male

double edit: seriously?!

triple edit: fucking seriously?!?!

So because Roadhog is overweight that mitigates the fact he is the most scantly dressed? He may not be "sexy" to you because he is overweight but he is still half naked.

 

[Toxi]

Well we will have to disagree. I think it is tight clothing. May not be a latex bodysuit but still form fitting which gives them "sex appeal" more-so than clothing that is not.

I'm honestly confused. How on Earth do you think Junkrat is wearing tight clothing? He's literally just wearing loose-fitting shorts.

I'm not arguing sex appeal, I'm arguing the bizarre statement most of the male characters in the game wear tight bodysuits.

 

[Aselith]

Porn existing of a character isn't really a measure of what's sexualized or not. People are gonna make porn of anyone.

Just look at the amount of Pokemon porn on the net.

They're almost all naked. They're begging for it!

 

[Aselith]

So because Roadhog is overweight that mitigates the fact he is the most scantly dressed? He may not be "sexy" to you because he is overweight but he is still half naked.

Sexualization is not directly about nudity so whether or not he's the most naked is not a measure of his sexualization.

 

[Wavebossa]

This kind of example is more of what I was getting at. I guess I should have put more emphasis on the "inherently" part of my question.

I'll ask a different type of question: If you were given the choice of either having the sexualization of many of the female characters already in the game toned down or adding new characters that are not as sexualized, which would you prefer?

Well unlike some others in this thread, I feel that Widomaker is the only over sexualized (just in terms of costume) female character. I dont know enough about her character to know whether or not it goes with it (I never play her).

In the event that it doesn't mesh with her character, I would prefer for it to be toned down.

In the event that it goes with her character, then I would rather them add another character and leave her as is.

I have absolutely nothing against sexy characters done right, nothing whatsoever.

For instance I think Cammy's design is terrible, but I have no issue with someone like Catwoman's costume

Just look at the amount of Pokemon porn on the net.

Don't do this brehs

 

[Bossking]

Reread my post, yknow, the part that said "young hot men in revealing outfits".

edit: like seriously did you just try to use roadhog as an example of a sexualized male

double edit: seriously?!

triple edit: fucking seriously?!?!

He's got fucking nipple piercings in his legendary skin, dude. There's so much porn of Roadhog. SO MUCH.

You can't just sit there and demand what you expect women (and men) to want while completely ignoring something that a lot of women (and men) really like. Trust me, Roadhog counts. People love him, and I think Blizzard knew they would when they designed him.

 

[E92 M3]

I honestly can't think of any old playable female characters in any game other than Sprigg from Chrono Cross.

Earlier I posted the Bag Lady from Syphon Filter.

 

[Amibguous Cad]

then you must hate how few young hot men in revealing outfits there are in this game

I think this might be a big example of how much context and the presumed intent of devs matter in interpreting this. Take genji's design.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CimmSylUgAAzCRU.jpg

Now compare it to a gender bent version of the same.

http://orig01.deviantart.net/2bd2/f...rwawtch_genderbend__1__by_kachima-da31fqs.jpg

There's actually no difference between the two, but one gets read as a lot more sexual than the other!

Meanwhile, Lucio's adorable with his alternate skins being attractive to a certain niche, Reinhardt's 7'4" and hulking frame is probably the most over the top sexualized thing in the game, unless you count Roadhog's fetish attire, and there's no way the artist wasn't intentionally evoking a bondage harness in designing Junkrat's bandoliers. Like, I'm scratching my head as to how they could have made the male character designs more sexualized without going straight on pornographic or putting someone in a speedo or something. Judging by my tumblr dash, a lot of gay male gamers are certainly appreciative.

But we're so used to not seeing men as objects of sexual attraction that even designs clearly inspired by the way both straight women and gay men express their desire get interpreted as asexual or power fantasies to appeal to the straight male gamer.

That's a problem, of course, and the designers should be aware of the cultural context, particularly in the way that overly sexualized female designs can be a blaring "THIS ISNT FOR YOU" sign to straight female gamers. But in the current milieu, I don't think it's possible to include sex appeal as part of your aesthetic *without* it being read as primarily being for the benefit of straight males u less you're like dating simulator obvious about your intended audience. That has less to do with any decisions the designer makes and more to do with the fact that the straight male gaze has been dominating visual language for so long we don't recognize when a queer or female gaze smacks us upside the head.

 

[LQX]

I'm honestly confused. How on Earth do you think Junkrat is wearing tight clothing? He's literally just wearing loose-fitting shorts.

I'm not arguing sex appeal, I'm arguing the bizarre statement most of the male characters in the game wear tight bodysuits.

I never said Jukrat is was wearing tight clothing. I pointed out the fact he and few other male heroes are bare-chested with few others in very tight form fitting outfits which should be the equivalent to the women heroes being in tight outfits.

My issue is why is it acceptable for the male heroes to be half naked and or in very tight form fitting clothing when you are raising issues about the women heroes being to
sexualized? Is it just "ok" for the males but "not ok" for the females in your eyes?

Sexualization is not directly about nudity so whether or not he's the most naked is not a measure of his sexualization.

Does this apply to the women in the game that are in tight clothing or a short dress?

 

[Wavebossa]

Sexualization is not directly about nudity so whether or not he's the most naked is not a measure of his sexualization.

I wonder if that is true for naked female characters as well.

I get your point... but I feel like it would be much harder to make a nude female not sexualized.

EDIT:

Does this apply to the women in the game that are in tight clothing or a short dress?

Beat me to it.

 

[Aselith]

Does this apply to the women in the game that are in tight clothing or a short dress?

It does but it depends on how it's used. Very often women are put in tight clothing to emphasize their sexual assets or the boob window or whatever goes into the design to show off the cleavage and it's very obvious.

Characters with their shirts off for males are more often designed to show off their hard muscles and emphasize the power of the character like with a Kratos for example.

I mean characters can be put in sexualized situation that has nothing to even do with clothes like for example Symmetra here where she's just kinda standing in one pose and the other is designed to really show off those assets

Just being in a close fitting garment isn't automatically a sexualized thing for sure, male or female. (We could however point at those high high heels and stockings running up to the naked thigh though )

I should point out that none of this has anything to do with whether a person finds the character sexually attractive or not. There's no doubt Symmetra is a hottie but she would be without the posing to really make a point of it. It's all about how you use and portray your characters.

 

[Beerman462]

After seeing Nirolak's post I don't see how Overwatch is "laughably sexist/ageist'

Of the old characters there is a woman of unknown age.

Of the new characters they are all in their 30s minus fat ass Road Hog which is far from an male role model.

Is the argument that they don't portray any old women in an unflattering light like Ellie in Borderlands 2?

Like if Road Hog was an Ellie clone would that be better?

Also MEI is very non-sexualized.

I don't know. I think Overwatch is a great example of diversity. Could it be marginally better? Yes, but as is it's better than 90% of the stuff out there.

 

[Amibguous Cad]

Reread my post, yknow, the part that said "young hot men in revealing outfits".

edit: like seriously did you just try to use roadhog as an example of a sexualized male

double edit: seriously?!

triple edit: fucking seriously?!?!

Uh, yeah? Go to your local leather bar and tell me how sexualized that design would be considered.

This again feels like people not recognizing sexualization that appeals to male-attracted people that goes unrecognized because people don't have the visual vocabulary for understanding it. It feels like the only thing that would be recognized as sexualization men would be the kind that draws explicitly on male gaze tropes and looks exactly like female sexualization with the gender swapped. Which, sure, I'd love for 20-something guy in a widowmaker bodysuit, but that's far from the only thing male-attracted people like!

 

[Antiwhippy]

Uh, yeah? Go to your local leather bar and tell me how sexualized that design would be considered.

This again feels like people not recognizing sexualization that appeals to male-attracted people that goes unrecognized because people don't have the visual vocabulary for understanding it. It feels like the only thing that would be recognized as sexualization men would be the kind that draws explicitly on male gaze tropes and looks exactly like female sexualization with the gender swapped. Which, sure, I'd love for 20-something guy in a widowmaker bodysuit, but that's far from the only thing male-attracted people like!

Male attracted people sure, but straight female gaze is usually not the same as gay male gaze. Or female gaze in general.

 

[Blues1990]

Yeah, he's listed at 7'4", and that has to be without his armor since he's a foot or so above Roadhog, despite Roadhog being 7'3". Fun fact: Junkrat is 6'5"

Given how huge Roadhog is, I wouldn't mind seeing the two standing eye-to-eye just to see how tall they are.

And that's not shocking for Junkrat, despite hunching 90% of the time.

 

[Bjoern the Smexy]

If Overwatch was a cartoon nobody would care.
But we're video games now so everyone has to pull their sexism card every once in a while.

I am truly bored and annoyed at this. Why can't we take video games for granted?
It's not like they're real or something, you know. And Overwatch makes no example of trying to be based in reality at all.

 

[HK-47]

If Overwatch was a cartoon nobody would care.
But we're video games now so everyone has to pull their sexism card every once in a while.

I am truly bored and annoyed at this. Why can't we take video games for granted?
It's not like they're real or something, you know. And Overwatch makes no example of trying to be based in reality at all.

If you are bored with it, why are you engaging in discussing it? We didnt really need to hear about how much you dont care.

 

[TheRedSnifit]

Overwatch certainly has gotten its self a bit stuck on the body template. As it is, male body designs continue to be more diverse. Even to the point where they are allowed to be ugly, not to put down anyone's tastes. Mei and Zarya are still way more attractive than the male characters that don't fit into any box of standard beauty.

 

[Htown]

If Overwatch was a cartoon nobody would care.

People absolutely care about this stuff in cartoons.

But we're video games now so everyone has to pull their sexism card every once in a while.

Nobody is attacking you for liking these games, dude. Calm down.

I am truly bored and annoyed at this. Why can't we take video games for granted?

Because they are art, and art gets discussed.

It's not like they're real or something, you know. And Overwatch makes no example of trying to be based in reality at all.

You heard it here first, folks. Fiction is immune from criticism.

 

[Spman2099]

The initial post makes a lot of great points. What I find most interesting is that it didn't even cross my mind. That sorta outlines how problematic it is. However, Overwatch does do some things very right. Zarya is an obvious example of that. People need to understand that someone can criticize something without nullifying all the good stuff. You liking Overwatch doesn't invalidate the criticism, and the criticism doesn't invalidate everything you like about the game.