-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Overwatch's Laughably Convenient Ageism / Sexism
- Thread starter mindsale
- Start date
styl3s
Member
I don't quite understand why it's an issue as well. Why can't people just enjoy the game and praise it for it's already insane diverse cast now we need to books for everyone telling their back story, religions, sexual preference etc? We need characters that look 100 years old? Why is it sexist? Because some women in the game look sexy?
Why aren't people complaining about every other game ever made because you can't play as an old man or lady? Is it REALLY that big of a deal that they don't look old? Because if it is you people sure don't care enough to bring it up in any other game discussion.
Inferno313
Banned
Sure. Is that not an admirable goal in your eyes?
DealWithIt
Member
I do think the criticism is worthwhile in that it shows how they could improve, but it is a significant step up from the norm. For all the "Anime TF2" talk I've heard the waifus are at least not teenage and do show some real variety in design. They are all adult aged and more than sex objects.
Because characters who should be older aren't and the reason is sexual objectification.
The Omega Man
Member
yes, and people still say he is Mexican, he doesn't speak spanish nor was born in a spanish speaking country.
Kor of Memory
Member
My apologies, I did a bit of research and am finding that Reaper was actually born in LA.
I see alot of people mentioning body types when talking about older women.
What do body types have to do with age?
There are plenty of old women who look amazing for their age (or any age for that matter), and plenty of young women who are in terrible shape.
My point is, if they add a lady with gray hair and wrinkles with a fit physique... would some of you be unhappy with that?
What do body types have to do with age?
There are plenty of old women who look amazing for their age (or any age for that matter), and plenty of young women who are in terrible shape.
My point is, if they add a lady with gray hair and wrinkles with a fit physique... would some of you be unhappy with that?
And grannies! I want grannies!
DrGonzo615
Banned
Because there is no pleasing some people. They will always find a "problematic" element to everything and anything.
Blizzard need to address this soon!
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Wait is Reaper supposed to be hispanic? Maybe I'm not paying attention but I just thought he was a black guy
Dance Inferno
Unconfirmed Member
The way you list it, it makes it seem like the ethnicities are well diversified, when in reality white characters make up for >50% of the game's cast of heroes.
I would lump all Americans, Europeans, and Australians into the same "white" bucket to show how heavily Blizzard is leaning on the "white hero" design.
I would also put Zarya in that bucket. Russia is usually considered European, even though most of its landmass exists in Asia. Its football team plays in the Euro Cup, for example.
I don't care if the game is all 16 year-old Catholic schoolgirls and the only weapon is a feather duster with which you can have tickle-fights at slumber parties.
What annoys me is if they're actually 40+ year-olds with weak plot contrivances to keep them sexy alongside 8 men old enough to be their grandfathers.
Hispanic? No. But some people thought that he was Latino.
Oh, and Hispanic is not a race fyi.
Garrett Hawke
Member
I'm not too familiar with Tekken but this is interesting to knowI'll take it a step further and say Tekken is the absolute worst when it comes to this.
Xiaoyu had a very mature appearance by Tekken 4 and was mainly looking for Jin as a concerned friend. And while there was implied feelings for him it wasn't outright known.
Then come Tekken 5 they regressed her hard by making her look younger and becoming a lovesick schoolgirl on anime parody levels.
Then you have the whole thing putting Nina in cryosleep just to avoid the timeskip of 20 years from Tekken 2 to 3.
Tekken goes out of their way to avoid older women.
NoblesseOblige
Banned
The goal of what? This thread? It seems to be to to draw attention to a fad that is built on and reinforces certain aspects of society. Is that an issue to you?
His name is Gabriel Reyes.
Sadly Lúcio doesn't even have a single portuguese voice line which is ridículous.
TatteredHat
Member
Given his dress-sense I think the most important aspect of him is that he's there to represent all the 14 year olds in the world.
I won't accept that he's not a dwarf he's totally from azeroth
Reapers not black he looks dark but he's not black
The Omega Man
Member
He is an american, born in LA, whatever his ancestors came from is irrelevant.
I cut!
toastyToast
Member
Roadhog is 48???
Shy Fingers
Banned
While waiting to attack, if you have a D.Va and Lucio, they'll sometimes exchange dialogue about loving one another's work.
Also, her name is blatantly diva "a famous female singer of popular music"
We probably both know the answer to that. This thread shows some people don't even know how 30+ year olds should look. Or 40. Or 50.
He's got grey hair. I thought he was older.
Also, I don't know if you know this, he's a one-man apocalypse.
Fair enough.
RichiRamjag
Member
I agree, but looking at the ages, they do already seem fairly older than what I'd expect from most games out there. I guess it would be more of an issue of their appearance.
His DLC outfit has him without a mask, he's not black.
Somebody keeps telling me Mariachi Reaper outfits have him speaking Spanish but I don't believe him.
LiquidSword
Member
Lol most of the people in this thread are playing and enjoying the game and just want to discuss this obvious issue. Ironic that the only "angry" or "outraged" posts I've seen are people desperately trying to shut down the conversation for some reason or "Please ban me from this forum. This is just too ridiculous."
In your attempt to show off how more knowledgable you are than other people, you are instead just being dense and ignorant about the subject in question. You can't possibly understand the breadth of Christian culture just by looking at the Bible. Christian mythology, canon law, and doctrine evolved an changed considerably over the two millennia since the religion was founded. You can't discuss the history of Christianity without talking about major events such as the Council of Nicaea. You can't talk about Christian religious imagery without talking about the Renaissance and its art.
Christianity is a culture, and as such it exists in forms far outside the scope of what is found in the Bible. Now, the imagery in question: that angels have wings and halos, is hardly a controversial issue. Everyone recognizes that image of angels: they have been around for centuries. I can point out such images in artwork going back nearly two millennia. Let me point it out this way: if every Christian on this planet recognizes and accepts the imagery of angels with wings and halos, then that imagery is Christian, regardless of whether or not it exists in he Bible. The very idea that the Bible is the end-all-be-all of Christian thought is actually a product of Protestantism. It isn't a universal idea in Christianity. Basically, if you believe in the dominance of the Bible over all other aspects of Christianity, you are exposing Protestant ideology, not a universal Christian ideal.
Platinumstorm
Member
I had the same thought when I started playing, and also that the male characters are also very diverse from the ruggedness of Reinhardt, Junkrat's junkie design, to the more proud and stoic Hanzo and Genji.
I personally feel like there would be a different kind of backlash, but I wanted to ask instead of assuming regardless.
The constant mention of body types throughout a thread about ageism clued me in on the answer
toastyToast
Member
For someone that large and that age his skin is pristine. I wonder what kind of lotion he uses.
Well, I mean, his hair is entirely white, and here's two real life men who are older than him:
Minustephen
Neo Member
I think sometimes it's really easy to scrutinize. Overwatch is a very, very archetypal game. I think the age of the characters reflects the stereotype they were simply going for.
Solider 76 as the hardened war veteran; Reinhardt as a grizzled knight; Reaper as the villain? Just like how the tutorial is super simple and streamlined for beginners, the characters are easy to grasp for anyone, not just those who play games and understand the depth at which characters can be portrayed.
I'd like to give Blizzard the benefit of the doubt and expect them to play with their character roles a bit more with their DLC-- now that it's garnered it's audience, it can start playing around with the formula.
Solider 76 as the hardened war veteran; Reinhardt as a grizzled knight; Reaper as the villain? Just like how the tutorial is super simple and streamlined for beginners, the characters are easy to grasp for anyone, not just those who play games and understand the depth at which characters can be portrayed.
I'd like to give Blizzard the benefit of the doubt and expect them to play with their character roles a bit more with their DLC-- now that it's garnered it's audience, it can start playing around with the formula.
This is, ironically, probably less of an issue if the game only features young, hot men as well. But lots of hero games do this exact thing: make characters are able to run a full spectrum from hot (Hanzo) to ugly (Roadhog) to just unusual (Torbjorn), while female characters, even when they have diverse bodies (which Blizzard gets the props they should for!) still have to be "attractive".
The ugliest "hero" character I can think of in a hero game is Medusa in Dota who looks like this
And she still recognizably has a face in a game that includes characters like this
Wait what about Blizzard's female body types are diverse? Zarya is the only one I can think of. Mei looks like it but she has an extreme hourglass outside of her parka.
Also I didnt know you found Broodmother so much more attractive than Medusa =3
Kai Dracon
Writing a dinosaur space opera symphony
I feel like most of the people expressing outrage that games are critically examined for any reason, just saw the thread title, went into outrage mode, and didn't read a word of the OP.
The OP is pointing out how the game's story goes out of its way to come up with lots of excuses for older female characters to look and act very young, all at the same time. At the very least, it's quite weird once one realizes it. Since the same excuses and plot contrivances are not being made for any of the male characters.
The general point is not advocacy for the trite boogeyman of a politically correct crusade to represent one of every possible kind of person on Earth simultaneously. The point is that the game, for all its good points, seriously leans on the stereotype that all women must look youthful and perfect, while men can look like anything.
Edit: I think this is where many people have a mental hurdle with separating the critique of trends from individual elements. There's nothing wrong with any one female character in Overwatch. There's nothing weird or objectionable about say, Tracer being a young pilot who becomes stuck in time. Individually, each character has a cool and interesting backstory. When every character so far though, happens to be the same thing, the result is reinforcement of a cliche trend.
mdsfx
Member
Fair enough. I can certainly get on board with that. Maybe it's how it is sometimes approached, i.e. "I can't believe they did this" vs "it would be cool if..."
There are plenty of Latino-Americans who certainly don't identify as solely "American". I don't think they consider their ancestry to be "irrelevant". Reaper may not have been born in Mexico, no, but nationality is not the sole identifier for ethnic identity and it's weird how you're acting like it is.
The Omega Man
Member
Via Purifico
Banned
Yeah, I mean compared to other games they are a step up for sure.
You can have an older woman 60s+ be beautiful, without needing to be sexy. The design challenge would be to make her cool, so that the casual player would be able to look past the age.
This is your opportunity Overwatch team. Your game is popular, time to make a splash!
I'm partial to a lady mob boss concept, where she could summon mobsters to fight alongside her. Fulfills a Superhero baddie trope! *wink*
This is your opportunity Overwatch team. Your game is popular, time to make a splash!
I'm partial to a lady mob boss concept, where she could summon mobsters to fight alongside her. Fulfills a Superhero baddie trope! *wink*
Yeah, it's like it's impossible to love a game and criticize it at the same time for some people.
OverBlood 3
Banned
Where is all this backstory from? I can't recall seeing it in the game?
It's on the website: https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/heroes/
There are also the comics: https://playoverwatch.com/en-us/media/
I dont understand this post.
You want them to add older women in such a way that player doesn't notice their age?
Isn't that exactly what they've done by having them frozen in time?
Comics, articles, animated shorts, videos and other stuff.
"You know what's missing from this game? Old waifus."
"Yeah, why all the husbandos gotten be all diverse and shit?"
"I know right? They even have the furries covered with Winston."
"And the robo-lovers too!"
"Hell, damn near everyone has cybernetics. It's a goddamn cyborg love-fest!"
"Fuck it."
*Post New Thread*
=)
76, Hanzo, Genji, Reyes skins.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Whoops, thanks