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[Jarate]

Maybe the game has a lot of asians, europeans, and americans in it because that's where the game is going to sell the most?

 

[3phemeral]

Blizzard basically made diversity: the game, the laughable thing is that they still get jumped on for not covering literally everything possible. They'll get around to it someday. And then people will make porn of that character.

Or, from another perspective: they made a comic book world and are following that aesthetic.

It's more like, in this instance, they have perfectly valid reasons for representing older women but created convenient backstories to keep them younger than expected.

 

[AllBusinessJr]

When did everything become so serious? It's a computer game, not some slanted social commentary. I am a very open minded person, but this level of sensitivity, scrutiny and zealous advocacy of political correctness makes my stomach turn.

I am not asking to be banned in jest like a previous poster, but perhaps it's just time to relax.

 

[Ivan 3414]

Absolutely unrealistically idealistic old men, they're buff as fuck. And Torb is basically a dwarf, that pretty much comes with that archetype.

If they tried to do that with women everyone would complain because it's sexist. "No 50ish years old woman looks like that!" "5000 yo dragon" etc. Which is happening with, for example, Mercy, with people saying she doesn't look 37.

I don't think there's anything wrong with characters who have "idealistic" or "unrealistic" body types, per se, if it makes sense in-universe. But if you look at the men in this game and the woman in this game, it's pretty clear the women have a considerably smaller range of idealistic and unrealistic in terms of body type. Everyone has a model type body, one is plus size, one has slightly thicker thighs, and one is muscular. Far smaller range than the men in this game.

And the second part of your post is bullshit. Mercy is a completely different beast than someone like 76 or Hanzo. Mercy doesn't look like she's aged at all, and 76 has. Look at art of Mercy when she was in the original Overwatch. She looks the exact same and that was supposed to be thirty years ago. The 5000 yo dragon criticism only applies to characters that haven't aged, which Mercy sort of is. Fact is, the old men look old in this game; Blizzard has yet to make a woman who looks older, and even if they did and she was super-in-shape and still looked old, you're on your head if you think people would think that was sexist.

 

[Kyari]

They throw in contrived implications that Mercy is using her own nanomachine tech to stay young, too.
Mei all but calls her out on looking like she hasn't aged in the time she's been in stasis sometimes if the two are on the same team in the pre-game spawn point.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

No, and I don't think anyone is saying that it does. They're saying that it would enhance their enjoyment if they could.

But, would it? When I play Overwatch I pick characters based on their skill set and based on team dynamics, not whether they are a 57 year old female from Uruguay.

 

[jacksepticeye]

I just realized all the older males, or the ones that have visible aging (Reindhardt, Soldier, Roadhog) Have their face covered.

By default yes but 76 and reinhardt have skins showing their faces. 76's however shows his old self and not the current one I believe

 

[Mupod]

This isn't equal enough yet guys. There's no furries, deaf, blind or mute characters. Blizzard are also discriminating against less bulky A.I robots. We got bastion over here but he's representing the bulky bots, so we need some slimmer more diverse robots too. I think that would just about cut it.

We also need atleast one female animal, where's the equality guys? Get it together blizzard jheez man.

I know you're joking but I'd make the bet that this game will have an anthro character (can't really count Winston) and a female Omnic by the end of the year.

 

[TatteredHat]

Firstly, Muhammad isn't a muslim God.

Secondly, Arab dress doesn't mean Muslim

I score this 4/5 on the Britain First scale of Islamic tolerance

I did not claim that Muhammad was a muslim god and I didn't make any mention of Arab dresses whatsoever.

There is no religious representation in the game, and the only example is a skin of a religious figure from the region where one of the playable characters comes from, but it makes no statements on the religion of the playable character itself. If that's the kind of representation you are looking for then fair enough, I suppose.

 

[Heavy's Sandvich]

I'm not afraid of Muslims, that's ridiculous.

Short of games like Assassin's Creed, you're really not going to find a lot of characters who outright state they are Muslim. At the end of the day religious representation is about as bad as gender representation and racial representation in most games, so if you're asking for examples, the majority of them are going to be characters that could potentially be Muslim based on other factors but are not outright stated as such.

I'm not a religious person myself. I hardly know anything about Christianity, which is the religion that most of the people in my family celebrate. I really don't know the first thing about Islam, except that Ramadan is a thing because I saw the thread about it in the Off-Topic forum on this website.

I suppose in the future I should do some research not just on Islam but also on the other major religions so I have a better understanding of them, but at the moment I'm about as clueless about Islam as I am about every other religion.

No issue with not knowing at all. Not your fault if you don't know.

PM if you want to find stuff out, Ramadan thread is welcoming too for genuine enquiries.

 

[Mr. X]

I have to admit I'm kind of growing tired of how nit-picky people are becoming with an entertainment media that is basically digital fantasy.

At what point does this end? When we've represented every kind of human age, sec, build, religion, etc, in a manner approved by everyone?

Generally speaking, it would be nice if devs didn't default to Caucasian male.

 

[dan2026]

I didn't think Junkrat and Roadhog were ever members of Overwatch.

I thought they were wanted criminals?

 

[Kalentan]

snip

Actually interesting thing is that, a decent bit of characters in the game that are "now" in Overwatch only joined in the newly reformed. Pharah for example, always wanted to serve in Overwatch, but couldn't because it got dismantled.

Of the characters in the game only...
Soldier 76, Reaper, McCree, Mercy, Reinhardt, Torbjorn, Winston, Genji, Mei(?), and Tracer.

Were actually in the Overwatch pre-dismantled.

 

[Kai Dracon]

By default yes but 76 and reinhardt have skins showing their faces. 76's however shows his old self and not the current one I believe

I think that's only storyline related. Soldier 76 is a assumed identity, and the mask stays on to prevent the public from knowing that he's still alive.

 

[Nirolak]

Actually interesting thing is that, a decent bit of characters in the game that are "now" in Overwatch only joined in the newly reformed. Pharah for example, always wanted to serve in Overwatch, but couldn't because it got dismantled.

Of the characters in the game only...
Soldier 76, Reaper, McCree, Mercy, Reinhardt, Torbjorn, Winston, Genji, Mei(?), and Tracer.

Were actually in the Overwatch pre-dismantled.

I didn't think Junkrat and Roadhog were ever members of Overwatch.

I thought they were wanted criminals?

This is correct. Sorry, I've went back and added a clarifying label.

Several others aren't members of Overwatch either. Sorry, I was trying to do this quickly.

And yes, Mei was in Overwatch, but she worked in the civilian research division.

 

[Boogdud]

He said Christian representation not Biblical.

You know Christian... as in the earlier followers of Christ and the founders of the Christian Church (big C). Like all of those Christian cathedrals with their depictions of angels.

In your attempt to correct someone, you failed at reading comprehension

Oh, I wasn't aware that cathedrals and artist depictions were the foundation of Christianity. I see what you're saying though, the idea of the depiction.

 

[KarmaCow]

I have to admit I'm kind of growing tired of how nit-picky people are becoming with an entertainment media that is basically digital fantasy.

At what point does this end? When we've represented every kind of human age, sec, build, religion, etc, in a manner approved by everyone?

I don't think anyone is demanding quotas but rather are pointing out what it is either a lazy trend to homogenize female character designs or something unintentional on Blizzard's part where they just didn't think about it. It isn't even a Blizzard only phenomenon either as other people have noted. Except for the people who literally only want waifu bait in their games, who doesn't want more unique and diverse character designs instead of sexy blank variations?

 

[Shtof]

And Roadhog. Unless you love some flub of course.

Sizeism detected.

So..is Torbjorn a Dwarf in the WoW sense that Dwarves are a race, or is he just a human with dwarfism?

Probably the latter as Overwatch is not set in the Warcraft universe.

 

[wamberz1]

By default yes but 76 and reinhardt have skins showing their faces. 76's however shows his old self and not the current one I believe

Correct. So the only way to play as a visibly old male in this game is to purchase or get an epic or legendary skin.
I'm not going to start making assumptions, but that's a hell of a coincidence.

 

[Kor of Memory]

what? i don't refer to my coffee mug as a "he", and plenty of people, especially in science fiction works, refer to methods of conveyance (ships, cars, tanks) with feminine pronouns.

additionally, the problem you illustrate of "In the absence of an obvious gender, the male gender is assumed" is absolutely correct; and it's part of an issue that extends far beyond the scope of this thread topic.

No one refers to a coffee mug as a he.

However, we do use things like Firemen and Actors as a default unless the context of the conversation requires otherwise.

 

[papertoonz]

D.VA is apparantly a movie star, a pop star, video game champion and a trained soldier/pilot.

And she's only what? 18?

Stretches belief somewhat.

isn't D.va just a former professional gamer and a pilot?

i never heard anything of here being a a movie star or a pop star

 

[TheGeniusArcana]

I'm not afraid of Muslims, that's ridiculous.

Like everyone who says they aren't afraid of gay people, right? The use of islamaphobia is obviously not insinuating that you have a fear of Muslims.

 

[Scrub Mcgrubb]

Yeah man and why are we even talking about E3 with the Syrian civil war going on?

Why? Because when something doesn't effect you directly, it's easy to just turn away and focus on something else. So how many Grandmas are directly upset they don't have someone representative of themselves in the Overwatch? How many transgender amputee deaf mutes are going to have to petition to Blizzard.

It's almost like you market a product to the largest audience of people you know have money and will buy it....

 

[Mupod]

isn't D.va just a former professional gamer and a pilot?

i never heard anything of here being a a movie star or a pop star

well there's movie posters in Hollywood with her on them.

 

[gatti-man]

I agree OP. First time I played overwatch I knew people would criticize it for this. It was just a matter of time. It doesn't bother me outright but it's there every time I play the game in the back of my mind. It also doesn't really fit with the game since soldier and rineheart especially are so obviously old. There should be Atleast one old female character.

 

[Derpot]

When did everything become so serious? It's a computer game, not some slanted social commentary. I am a very open minded person, but this level of sensitivity, scrutiny and zealous advocacy of political correctness makes my stomach turn.

I am not asking to be banned in jest like a previous poster, but perhaps it's just time to relax.

We're not angry or anything, people can still enjoy the game as it is. Overwatch is very fun game with very nice characters. But it's just an observation. I mean, it's a bit like criticizing gameplay or graphics.

 

[Kalentan]

This seems so odd to be, as the game seems to be a world tour of characters from every end of the planet.

I might be wrong on some of these, but off the top of my head:

North America:
-New York (Soldier 76)
-New Mexico (Mcree)
-Mexico (Reaper)

Small correction...

Soldier 76 was born in Indiana.

 

[NinjaCoachZ]

All of the "oh, you think it'd be cool to have older women? Better throw in (some amalgamation of adjectives)" type posts are weird to me because they treat it like some kind of frightening prospect.

 

[John Rabbit]

No one refers to a coffee mug as a he.

However, we do use things like Firemen and Actors as a default unless the context of the conversation requires otherwise.

the post i was replying to said "something" not "people" but you're absolutely right. i even corrected that exact issue in an earlier post when I used 'actor' to refer to a female voice actress.

i don't find the argument any more compelling though. just because male gendered pronouns are the default in the language doesn't mean we shouldn't question their usage as such.

All of the "oh, you think it'd be cool to have older women? Better throw in (some amalgamation of adjectives)" type posts are weird to me because they treat it like some kind of frightening prospect.

reeks of the "what's next? marrying animals?!" right-wing hysteria that manifested years ago as a response to marriage equality.

 

[foltzie1]

Reminds me of the Amy Schumer skit, Last F***able day

 

[Dance Inferno]

This seems so odd to be, as the game seems to be a world tour of characters from every end of the planet.

I might be wrong on some of these, but off the top of my head:

North America:
-New York (Soldier 76)
-New Mexico (Mcree)
-Mexico (Reaper)

Europe
-Britain (Tracer)
-Switzerland (Mercy)
-France (Widowmaker)
-Germany (Reinhart)
-Sweden (Torbjorn)

Asia
-Japan (Genji)
-China (Mei)
-Japan (Hanzo)
-India (Symmetra)
-Russia (Zarya)
-Korea (D.Va)
-Nepal (Zenyatta)

Australia
-??? (Junkrat)
-??? (Roadhog)

South America
-Brazil (Lucio)

Africa
-Egypt (Pharah)

Misc:
-The Moon (Winston)
-??? (Bastion)



It looks like Asia got the biggest chunk there, with Europe in second place. Australia is almost tied with North America, so I wouldn't say it's American specific. Unless you want to combine north and south america so they can add Lucio to the mix maybe?

Either way. I just feel like saying the game is American and Euro-centric is simply a false statement.

Splitting up American and European and Australian heroes, and putting Zarya in the Asian section, only serves to artificially dilute the presence of white heroes to support your argument.

It's even worse if you exclude non-human heroes. There are more non-human heroes than heroes from Africa and South America combined.

 

[Kor of Memory]

isn't D.va just a former professional gamer and a pilot?

i never heard anything of here being a a movie star or a pop star

I don't think she is a pop star, unless you just means popular like how Korean idols work.

She is an actress though. you can see her on the movie posters in the spawn room for Hollywood.

 

[TheLetdown]

To help with a bit of the confusion I'm reading, I've listed out the ages, gender, and nationalities of each of the characters, along with listing who were the original members of Overwatch.

Original Members:

Adam "Reaper" Reyes, Male, Age Unknown, Mexican-American
Jack "Soldier 76" Morrison, Male, Age Unknown, American
Ana Amari, Female, Hypothetically Deceased, Egyptian
Torbjörn Lindholm, Male, 57, Swedish
Reinhardt Wilhelm, Male, 61, German

New Members (Joined over the course of the following 30 years), also includes villains and other characters who aren't part of Overwatch:

Hana "D.Va" Song, 19, Female, South Korean
Jamison "Junkrat" Fawkes, Male, 25, Australian
Lúcio Correia dos Santos, Male, 26, Brazilian
Lena "Tracer" Oxton, Female, 26, British [Note: Was in a time vortex for "months", afterwards would disappear for "hours" and "days" at a time until Winston invented her chronal accelerator.]
Aleksandra "Zarya" Zaryanova, Female, 28, Russian
Satya "Symmetra" Vaswani, Female, 28, Indian
Mei-Ling Zhou, Female, 31, Chinese [Was in cryogenic stasis for "years"]
Fareeha "Pharah" Amari, Female, 32, Egyptian
Amélie "Widowmaker" Lacroix, Female, 33, French [Had her heart rate slowed down, which is said to dampen her emotion and turn her skin blue. It doesn't explicitly mention slowed aging, but you can make your own judgement.]
Genji Shimada, Male, 35, Japanese
Jesse McCree, Male, 37, American
Angela "Mercy" Ziegler, Female, 37, Swiss
Hanzo Shimada, Male, 38, Japanese
Mako "Roadhog" Rutledge, Male, 48, Australian

Robots:
Bastion, Genderless, 30
Zenyatta, Male, 20, Nepalese

Gorillas:
Winston, Male, 29, Outer Space

I added this to the OP to help with some lore clarifications and also added a note for anyone just driving by to complain that we're talking about this to just avoid posting in the first place.

This is incredibly helpful.

 

[Alienous]

Hideo Kaplan

 

[Mr. X]

To be fair, Zenyatta got a Muslim mythology inspired costume too. Djinn and Ifrit.

I also forgot Symmetra Hindu alts as well

I think the religious expression via outfits is better than out of game bios or in your face voice lines personally.

 

[PeskyToaster]

I didn't know there was lore to the game. Interesting to read though.

 

[DrGonzo615]

These complaints are laughable, you have one of the most diverse cast of characters in a video game ever and its still being nitpicked to death.

There is no pleasing people with this type of mindset. No matter what you do, it will always be "problematic" in some ridiculous manner. This mindset will always find something else to bitch about.

If someone posted this 4 years ago, I would've assumed it was a joke, but in these times where influential people make videos and speeches saying things like everything is sexist, everything is racist, everything is problematic with a totally straight face I guess its to be expected.

 

[QFNS]

well there's movie posters in Hollywood with her on them.

Professional gamers are really popular in South Korea today. Does not strech belief that they could be in movies and such in an alternate reality world.

 

[HazySaiyan]

When did everything become so serious? It's a computer game, not some slanted social commentary. I am a very open minded person, but this level of sensitivity, scrutiny and zealous advocacy of political correctness makes my stomach turn.

I am not asking to be banned in jest like a previous poster, but perhaps it's just time to relax.

A lot of this is coming from people who love the game and just think it could do a bit of a better job with representation. I don't really see anything wrong with that.

 

[buy teh haloz]

I'd like to see a female Omnic.

Also "ludotypical"? Really?

 

[7DollarHagane]

I get the criticism but older women in hero roles are a hard sell for any medium.

It's just something that you don't see much anywhere and maybe it's a demographic thing? It's probably a small minority of 40+ women who are playing games or enjoying superhero related type media.

 

[Kor of Memory]

Splitting up American and European and Australian heroes, and putting Zarya in the Asian section, only serves to artificially dilute the presence of white heroes to support your argument.

It's even worse if you exclude non-human heroes. There are more non-human heroes than heroes from Africa and South America combined.

...?

So where should Zarya go?

Also, why wouldn't I split up American, European, and Australian?

 

[The Omega Man]

This seems so odd to be, as the game seems to be a world tour of characters from every end of the planet.

I might be wrong on some of these, but off the top of my head:
-Mexico (Reaper)

Reaper is American, as american as any american with irish roots or an american with chinese roots, you won't call these 2 Irish or Chinese just because their ancestors came from those regions. Reaper does not represent Spanish Speaking countries.

 

[Wavebossa]

Oh, I wasn't aware that cathedrals and artist depictions were the foundation of Christianity.

Mercy's designs is based on early Christian artist depictions of Angelic beings and Saints.

EDIT: I saw your edit, so I edited mine.

 

[mindsale]

Clarification re: Mei's cryostasis -

A Eurogamer interview with Michael Chu specifies the length of time as a decade.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-05-23-about-that-sombra-overwatch-character-and-other-things-besides

 

[Arkeband]

Blizzard has yet to make a woman who looks older, and even if they did and she was super-in-shape and still looked old, you're on your head if you think people would think that was sexist.

I'm confident that someone would still find fault with it.

I feel like this entire controversy is a bit much when the very next character is supposed to be an old woman.

Also lol at "ludotypical", good fucking grief.

 

[Nirolak]

Clarification re: Mei's cryostasis -

A Eurogamer interview with Michael Chu specifies the length of time as a decade.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2016-05-23-about-that-sombra-overwatch-character-and-other-things-besides

Thanks. I missed that.

 

[papertoonz]

well there's movie posters in Hollywood with her on them.

I don't think she is a pop star, unless you just means popular like how Korean idols work.

She is an actress though. you can see her on the movie posters in the spawn room for Hollywood.

i mean i guess that a point but none of her backstory says that she has done movies

i mean they say stuff like she streams from inside her mech but nothing along the lines of being in movies

 

[Via Purifico]

Asking for a older women isn't trying to make companies succumb to pressure, I think consumers should be able to express themselves in a respectful manner.
Throughout gaming especially in types like this older women are not even a thought and go for a similar age range. I don't see how that doesn't ring any bells.


I guess since it's something that just happens you don't notice it. But as someone who has played these types of games for years I noticed it for a long time.

This type of discussion isn't really hurting anything and I think it's a thoughtful commentary on how media is.

 

[Kalentan]

Reaper is American, as american as any american with irish roots or an american with chinese roots, you won't call these 2 Irish or Chinese just because their ancestors came from those regions. Reaper does not represent Spanish Speaking countries.

Just for further clarification, Reaper was born in Los Angeles.