dragonyeuw
Member
I'm hoping by the time Ps5 launches the standard HDD is 2TB. These games aren't getting any smaller, especially with 4k assets.
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Pachter on PS5: Bets on 2020 launch now, PS4 Pro to become "default PS4"
- Thread starter Bitch Pudding
- Start date
I'm hoping by the time Ps5 launches the standard HDD is 2TB. These games aren't getting any smaller, especially with 4k assets.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
By 2020 PS4 as a brand is too cold and MS can be ready with Scorpios successor... way too late for PS5 IMHO.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
That is a good point. Also if they are going for 2019 then it will almost certainly be a cutting edge node if they go 7nm and that itself is quite a risk.
At much lower volumes they can do it (PS4 Pro) but even that had some early issues?
A new scorpio after only 2.2 years seens excessive
The ps4 hits 80 million sold by march or april 2018, hits $199 as main price point by fall 2018. It has enough exlusive software to carry it into 2019, where a ps5 can launch in fall 19. Cerny has an idea what he wants in the ps5, ie at least a 12tb cpu, how likely are they to hit his desired specs in 2019 is the real question
GermanZepp
Member
Excuse me im already post some stuff like this. Is there a game that requires (demands) 16GB of ram ? Cause i don't see Sony putting more than that, even "future proofing".
comshoplesce
Member
we need 2TB PS not 1TB....games are getting almost 100gb now.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
I think games at native 4k @ 30fps would be really underwelming with that spec, in comparison to what we have now.
Would 9tflops even be able to produce visuals like this at 4k 30fps?
https://youtu.be/GXI0l3yqBrA
Trogdor1123
Member
I'd say 4tb myself.
Toni
Member
I hadnt really thought that far ahead with harddrive capacity 2 to 3 years from now and the heavy weight 4k carries in the form of assets.
Terabytes are expensive but I'd be damned if I say we wont need bigger harddrive capacities with 4k games and 4k movies becoming the norm as time passes.
By 2020, 2k and 4k will undoubtedly be IQ standard. Thing is, 2 to 4 TB console harddrives will be expensive on top of what high tech consoles will provide in 2020, so it'd be pretty compelling to see how the big 2 find an even ground out of it. Its all going to get super pricey the higher the resolution goes, that is absolute.
geordiemp
Member
Just give me Ryzen and 60 FPS,
The GPU is what it is, 8TF would be fine, I am OK with CB or 1600p as long as its 60 FPS >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>4K,
4K30 is OK, the HDR is more impressive than whether its 1600 or 1800 or 2160p on my LG 55 inch OLED.
Toni
Member
Games were already utilizing a huge chunk of the ram PS4 provided like, on the first year it was released. And current console generations have gotten longer. So any extra ram will be nothing but a vast benefit to long console gens.
Not to mention GDDR5 ram will be very cheap in 2020. If GDDR6 doesnt get introduced by then with a clearer benefit over GDDR5, Sony/MS can easily ramp it up wayyyy over 8 Gigs of ram.
32 Gigs of Ram its not too far out of the spectrum in 2020. For developers working on games, It'd be a godsend to have sufficient ram to work with for an entire console gen.
Furthermore, Open world games, which have become so prevalent and so profitable this gen, will need sufficient ram to work soundly with the incoming 4k era.
Feels like a mere 8 Gigs for a 7 year console gen was pretty short-sighted
Louis Cyphre
Banned
PS4 Pro will not be the default system. I predict the PS5 will release simultaneously with a PS5 Pro. This way Sony can come out with two pricing models at launch.
CJY
Banned
I personally dont see there being a PS5 unless there is a push for 8K with the first 3 years of PS5s launch. 4K adoption was the extenuating circumstance that saw the Pros launch. We wont have that next gen. not saying I wouldnt welcome it, I like the mid-gen upgrade, but this time, Id much prefer the see Sony stick to one gen, one console
CJY
Banned
Nonsense. 8GB was seen as pushing the envelope way further than peoples wildest imaginations. Everyone was convinced it was going to be 4GB. The Industrys minds were collectively blown when the shock announcement of 8GB was made. 16GB was completely infeasible back then price-wise, too.
Im sorry, but who was short-sighted? Sony? Thats crazy talk
You know what would be effin wonderful? If the devs were to use the power to eliminate or notably mitigate "POP IN" for both objects and shadows. At higher resolution (even at 1080p), these shortcoming become very distracting.
On screen complexity at this gen feels more than enough and it's time for consistency.
$399 Xbox 360 in 2005 = $499 in 2020. They should aim for a $499 price point, a $399 console in 2020 would be too crippled for a native 4k gaming for the next 7 years after launch. If the Xbox One X does fairly well that will pretty much guarantee a launch $499 price point for the PS5. Then do a price drop right before the next Xbox comes out.
vpance
Member
$399 is the way to go to starting off a new gen, as the last 2 have shown. The masses don't really care about the ever diminishing differences in res, not enough to make $499 the base model. And enthusiasts will opt for PC or just buy the Pro model later anyways.
That said, there will be plenty of native 4K games, even at $399 and 10+TF.
Respectfully disagree, the first year will sell no matter what, and again it's flawed to compare prices from back in 2005. $499 PS5 launch with a price drop to $399 when the next Xbox comes out (probably 2021) would be the way to go. It's not just about 4k gaming, it's also next gen VR.
geordiemp
Member
The only games that are backward compatible at the moment are 360 games from MS.
You cant play your WiiU games on Switch.
You cant play your Ps3 games on Ps4.
So I have no idea what your babling about.
notacat
Member
Yep, which is why I hope ps5 stays x86. That's your typical PC processor. If they stick with x86, you get instant backward compatibility. Like installing all your steam games on a brand new PC years later.
It's not instant and not easy and depends on a lot of things actually.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
PS4 games are backwards compatible on the PS4 Pro.
The hope is that if the architecture remains the same, PS4 and PS4 Pro Titles should work on natively forever on sony consoles moving forward.
That would mean that I can feel okay buying a PS4 now (late in the game) and still know my games will work well, and might be optimized and updated for PS5. What has kept me from buying one in the first place is the short lifespan of consoles games, before you have to buy them on a new system when all your friends, achievements and software updates have moved.
pcostabel
Gold Member
That's because the Pro is essentially a PS4 with added hardware that is disabled by default. Games have to be patched to take advantage of the new stuff. Unless PS5 is exactly the same architecture of the PS4, compatibility will be an issue. At best, games will run in compatibility mode and will need to be patched to use the new features just like with the Pro. However, since PS5 will likely use a different AMD architecture (Vega), I doubt we'll see any kind of backward compatibility.
GermanZepp
Member
well you dont answer my question. How many PC games NEED 16GB to be played?
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I am actually quite positive that PS5 will be backward compatible with PS4 Games and PS4 Pro games out of the gate. The console and its OS and libraries can be designed to ease backwards compatibility concerns without sacrificing performance and without requiring tons of manual testing.
PS4 Pro is using a different GPU than PS4, not just double the CUs, but a generation ahead with some features coming from the one even beyond that. PS4 Pro has excellent support of PS4 games. It could be something PS4 architects/designers built in/accounted for from the get go too.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Not at the same time, but 8 months later promising a beast of performance over it... sounds familiar
?Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
It depends on how long they can wait without being fully profitable on HW alone (without PSN subscriptions and/or one launch game I mean) and how much they can tolerate in terms of lower yields due to a relatively large die. Did not hear about initial production issues for PS4 Pro though, do you have links?
pcostabel
Gold Member
The Pro has a compatibility mode in which all new features are disabled. In order to do the same, PS5 would need to have the old GPU running at the same clock speed . It would be a massive waste of die space, unless the new GPU is still on the GCN architecture, which would severely limit performances.
Vigilant Walrus
Member
Well, I think the hope is that if you look at Phones who've become 50x powerful compared to where they where 10 years ago (Iphone), old apps built for the old Iphone still works on the new one.
I think that's the hope. The hope is that your content, purchases and online valuables are safe and not restrained by legacy hardware.
I have no idea if they can do it. But I hope so!
pcostabel
Gold Member
Phone apps do not have direct access to the hardware. The API abstracts the HW so that apps can run on newer phones. On PlayStation there is no hardware abstraction so you would have to emulate the hardware for backward compatibility.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I remember the interviews Cerny gave and the coverage of the time, but you are still dealing with a GPU with a fundamentally different ISA and even the performance profiles of the single units at the same clock may be different yet they were able to make it work because it was designed to help them pull it off. I think the PS5 will have BC with PS4 whether they need to virtualise a fake PS4 Pro mapped to the PS5 or they can have a way for PS5s GPU to be reconfigured to also appear to be much closer to PS4 Pros GPU. Maybe both.
I think BC with PS4 will before important as they try to build a longer standing PlayStation platform, they really really will not want to keep producing PS4s to support PS Now PS4 titles, and PS4 will not be as old as PS3 was when PS4 came out.
Not at the same time, but 8 months later promising a beast of performance over it... sounds familiar
But how and why? There was nothing stopping sony from going full scorpio with ps4 pro, they wanted a modest 4k console at a resonable price to help sell their tvs and 4k produced constent
The thought that microsoft would wait for sony to launch a console only to have a slightly beefier and likely more expensive console is ludicrous and shows the mindset of the 2 companies
THE:MILKMAN
Member
To be fair the early issues (for PSVR too) were just rumours because of shortages in various places. Could have been anything from production issues to supply issues or Sony getting numbers wrong for the demand.....or have been nothing at all.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
They wanted something they could sell at $399 a year ago and they also knew what kind of modifications were possible at that time (they packed quite a lot of them that developers still are not using... iterative consoles are getting the minimum effort possible generally, hence MS with an extra year of R&D and rasing the price to $499 was able to also get a lot more RAM making it easier to have much higher resolution textures for example).
For $399 and manufactured at relatively high volumes a year ago it was a beast of a console, period. Unless now Scorpio is also a half step modest console because in a relatively short while we will have a much more powerful PS5
.They wanted something they could sell at $399 a year ago and they also knew what kind of modifications were possible at that time (they packed quite a lot of them that developers still are not using... iterative consoles are getting the minimum effort possible generally, hence MS with an extra year of R&D and rasing the price to $499 was able to also get a lot more RAM making it easier to have much higher resolution textures for example).
For $399 and manufactured at relatively high volumes a year ago it was a beast of a console, period. Unless now Scorpio is also a half step modest console because in a relatively short while we will have a much more powerful PS5
$399 is a sweet spot and should be a target for a launch console, i honestly believe Nintendo wouldve been just as successful at $399 with switch versus the price it is now. outside of the most hardcore fans the xb1 picked up sales when it hit $399. If Microsoft feels the need to push a new console every few years to keep the power advantage over sony, id imagine many will just move to pc to stay ahead of the graphics curve and come out cheaper
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
It is a possibility that considering demand is stripping supply so much that they could have made a very appealing device at that price, but I think the market was responsive at the time for yet another Nintendo home console price increase and still not close to Xbox One and PS4 in power due to its portable nature. Interesting thought experiment though...
I agree with a previous post. It is all about the eco system now. It would be suicide for the ps5 not be play PS4 games. In fact, for the PS4 to not play ps5 games would also be silly. Sony make most of their money from game sale royalty and not hardware. For them they just need people playing on the Sony platform. To do this you need good exclusives, good network infrastructure and good hardware. Look at the PC market. Most people aren't playing games on the highest hardware. It makes sense for Sony to give people the option and not to lose hardcore gamers to the One X or PC.
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
This is a good idea, because they can target both the price sensitive and people willing to spend more for better hardware.
yeah... no. next gen games aren't using 2013 laptop architecture as a baseline
Sosokrates
Report me if I continue to console war
Yes I agree, even though it will sting some gamers a bit a launch, they will be greatful in the long run.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
I think a PS5 Pro makes more sense 3 years after PS5, keeping ASPs high and providing users with that generations issues all ironed out.
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Forward compatibility with PS4 would harm PS5 titles ability to differentiate and would have PS5 games be held back by a much much slower platform. If developers want to target PS4 specs with their games they can publish the PS4 version of the game too IMHO. Hardcore gamers should want their console to be fully used and its games not held back in a much much longer cross generational period, all gamers should want it actually
.why would a PS5 that releases 3 years from now have a 1TB hard drive when the base slim model ps4 starts with a 1TB drive...
how much sense does that make
They wanted something they could sell at $399 a year ago and they also knew what kind of modifications were possible at that time (they packed quite a lot of them that developers still are not using... iterative consoles are getting the minimum effort possible generally, hence MS with an extra year of R&D and rasing the price to $499 was able to also get a lot more RAM making it easier to have much higher resolution textures for example).
For $399 and manufactured at relatively high volumes a year ago it was a beast of a console, period. Unless now Scorpio is also a half step modest console because in a relatively short while we will have a much more powerful PS5
I am curious as to whay you mean by the bolded. Do you know what features devs are not using?
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