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Pachter Says “Why Would Anybody Buy A Wii U? [Except to play Nintendo games]”

I do believe that kids these days are far more interested in GTA's and COD than platformers turned action adventure like Mario. Kart racing is trumped by the Forzas. Tablets and Phones with cheap games are the rage. Or f2p games.

Why are we pretending that Mario is some irrelevant player in the market? NSMBW sold 25 million. Mario Kart Wii sold 30 million.

Every Mario Kart for the best part of a decade blows sales of any Forza game into the weeds. This isn't even a debate.
 

MercuryLS

Banned
If Nintendos first party was as strong as some people think their consoles would sell much much better.

Yup, look at the Nintendo 64. That system was carried by Nintendo and to a lesser extent, Rare. The reason why 3rd parties avoid Wii Is simply because the installed base isn't there and they don't believe that the userbase will support significant sales for their titles. 3rd parties go where the money is, simple as that.
 

liger05

Member
Same situation we have had before however lets not forget prior to launch nintendo themselves were talking about a need to get 3rd parties onboard and create a ecosystem where they can also succeed on nintendo hardware.
 

hamchan

Member
I do agree with him. $350 to be able to just play Nintendo games is not worth it to me, when I can pay $50 more for a PS4, to play every game from every other video game developer under the sun.

Even a price drop to $299 would not be worth it. I'm personally waiting until the middle or the end of the generation to pick up a WiiU, when the console is dirt cheap. And maybe Nintendo will actually price drop games for once.
 
If Nintendos first party was as strong as some people think their consoles would sell much much better.
This is also a super valid point. I'll say again that I fucking love nintendo games but lets not pretend that debs are afraid of Nintendo first party. The reality is that there are more powerful consoles and other third part devs and publishers (aka their competitors) will have games that look better and have bigger worlds with huge multilayer modes and new, innovative ways to play that just aren't possible on a wii u which is essentially the same thing we have today. It's perfectly viable and Nintendo will make games that are just as good as any next gen game, but not everyone is nintendo and because of that the library just won't be big enough.

Look, there might be some fear about competing with Nintendo first party (they make good games after all), but the real fear is tha they are making games on old hardware.
 

guek

Banned
Reminds me of the "why would anyone buy a PS3" arguments we got years back...and the "why would anyone buy an XB1?" comments we're starting to see now.

But PS3 did just fine and the XB1 will probably do just fine too, even if it does end up trailing behind the PS4.

"Reasons" to own the console will always just come down to games...and nintendo games are still fairly popular. Wii U is unlikely to do great but there's definitely reasons to buy onel. Millions have already and millions more will as time goes on. It's pretty hard to deny that Wii U will end up being a fairly niche product much like the gamecube so long ago but that doesn't mean it wont have a place in the gaming industry.

On an unrelated note, I just wanna say how much Pachter annoys me. The guy is great at his job, I just hate what he does with a passion.
 

cartridge

Banned
Can someone tell me what is the purpose of this Pachter guy? Half of the stuff he says is conjecture, so I'm just a little puzzled why this guy gets paid to do what anyone could do?

Why would anyone step in a pile of shit, except to get shit on their shoes? I mean, come on.
 

Chrisness

Banned
Why are we pretending that Mario is some irrelevant player in the market? NSMBW sold 25 million. Mario Kart Wii sold 30 million.

Every Mario Kart for the best part of a decade blows sales of any Forza game into the weeds. This isn't even a debate.

Those two games were on a console that was lightning in a bottle that'll never be caught again. No Wii U game will ever sell 25 million. The best selling Gamecube game ever sold 1/4 of Mario Kart Wii.
 

guek

Banned
Can someone tell me why this Pachter guy is even around? Half of the stuff he says is conjecture, so I'm just a little puzzled why this guy gets paid to do what anyone could do?

Why would anyone step in a pile of shit, except to get shit on their shoes? I mean, come on.

He's around because he talks a lot and he works for a big company that pays him to talk. That's literally the only two reasons you see him so often.

Pretty much nothing Pachter claims, advises, or admonishes should be taken seriously. He says some smart things every now and then, some dumb things much more often, but what he's really best at is selling himself by nonstop talking. He's really good at it.
 

ash_ag

Member
His point is that the hardcore Nintendo fans isn't going to be enough to carry the system alone. The wider market has little incentive to buy the system.

I know, I was just making a quirky comment. :p

Although even that is arguable. My opinion is that Nintendo doesn't need to be overly competitive when they have a very core audience for their IPs. The answer lies to Nintendo fans, and even people who want a unique second console. They should be targeting on a low price and exclusives (mostly first party, but also co-ops like with Platinum or Atlus). Even if Wii U had each and every third party release, things wouldn't be tragically different for it IMO.

This is a laughably horrible comparison to draw. We don't need nintendo games to live.

Seriously some of the posts in this thread are laughably stupid, but yours might just take the cake!
Thanks for your opinion. Good job in deciphering the analogy.
 

MercuryLS

Banned
Those two games were on a console that was lightning in a bottle that'll never be caught again. No Wii U game will ever sell 25 million. The best selling Gamecube game ever sold 1/4 of Mario Kart Wii.

People are kidding themselves if they think those core games sold the Wii. They were lucky to be on a system that took off like a rocket thanks to the accessible wiimote and woo sports.
 

MercuryLS

Banned
I know, I was just making a quirky comment. :p
Although even that is arguable. My opinion is that Nintendo doesn't need to be overly competitive when they have a very core audience for their IPs. The answer lies to Nintendo fans, and even people who want a unique second console. They should be targeting on a low price and exclusives (mostly first party, but also co-ops like with Platinum or Atlus). Even of Wii U had each and every third party release, things wouldn't be tragically different for it IMO.

I agree actually. Even if wii u had all 3rd party games I don't know if things would be much different, didn't help GameCube all that much. People associate 3rd party titles with the other two systems. The best looking, full features versions would be on the competing systems anyways. So why would people settle for the inferior versions on the wii u?

I'm not sure what Nintendo could do to turn around the wii u.
 

guek

Banned
People are kidding themselves if they think those core games sold the Wii. They were lucky to be on a system that took off like a rocket thanks to the accessible wiimote and woo sports.

Dude, those games sold a shit ton Wiis. Tons. Mario and MarioKart have also sold millions of 3DSs as well.

The whole wii u situation is multi-faceted. It's absolutely idiotic to say Mario is no longer appealing because NSMBU failed to sell consoles. That's incredibly faulty logic. Wii U has failed to be compelling for a host of issues, not just price, not just marketing, not just power, not just 3rd party support.
 

eXistor

Member
Platinum Games, but other than that, yeah pretty much just Nintendo, which is exactly why people will want to buy one.
 
It's a legitimate question. Right now if you're not a Nintendo fan already, Nintendo is doing nothing to convince people to get it.

And unlike the PS3 back in 2006, the WiiU lacks the horsepower and 3rd party support to compete in the long run.

Nintendo bet the WiiU on the same idea they gambled with the Wii. It backfired. All they can do now is save their bottom line. Hope for GC levels of sales, and replace the console in 3 to 4 years time with a better thought out hardware and strategy. Until then it should allow them to be profitable with the WiiU and reap in the money from the quite healthy 3DS.

As far as market relevance goes, the WiiU won't ever be a notable player. A distant third in most markets, a distinct second in Japan.

NB: This is my outlook on it. I'm not trying to troll, and still am very happy with the console itself, but from a business side, the WiiU is an unmitigated failure, and I simply can't see it bounce back in any meaningful fashion.
 

VanWinkle

Member
To be fair, Netflix is a zillion times better on Wii U.

No no no no no. I really dislike using Netflix on Wii U. The biggest reason is that it doesn't auto-play the next episodes of TV shows. I love that on PS3. Every night I turn on Parks and Recreation before bed and have it play three episodes. It's very nice. On Wii U it would just play one episode.
 

Knox

Member
Can we all just agree that the world would be better off if Nintendo stopped fucking around with consoles and just made games?
 
Those two games were on a console that was lightning in a bottle that'll never be caught again. No Wii U game will ever sell 25 million. The best selling Gamecube game ever sold 1/4 of Mario Kart Wii.

Fine.

Mario Kart 7 has outsold any Forza game. On the 3DS. With a much smaller install base.
Can we all just agree that the world would be better off if Nintendo stopped fucking around with consoles and just made games?

Not really. The consoles support the games. We wouldn't be seeing games like X or The Wonderful 101 being funded if Nintendo didn't have a platform for their games.
 

ash_ag

Member
I agree actually. Even if wii u had all 3rd party games I don't know if things would be much different, didn't help GameCube all that much. People associate 3rd party titles with the other two systems. The best looking, full features versions would be on the competing systems anyways. So why would people settle for the inferior versions on the wii u?

I'm not sure what Nintendo could do to turn around the wii u.
GameCube is a wonderful comparison, in that not only was it a platform only the core would care about, but also because it was actually profitable to Nintendo. People are confused to think Wii's situation was a standard one, but the truth is that Wii was a completely different thing on its own. Its success was far from "enough" for Nintendo; it was enormous. It doesn't have to be repeated to keep the company running and be profitable still. Nintendo needs a major price drop and more exclusives, and I don't think Wii U will keep being anything like a nightmare.
 
Maybe you should try... any other console, or a PC. You might be surprised at where gaming has gone in the last decade.

Buddy of mine has a PS3. Looking forward to trying Last of Us.

But other than that, I really do have more games than time to play them.
 
It's a legitimate question. Right now if you're not a Nintendo fan already, Nintendo is doing nothing to convince people to get it.

And unlike the PSP back in 2006, the 3DS lacks the horsepower and 3rd party support to compete in the long run.

Nintendo bet the 3DS on the same idea they gambled with the DS. It backfired. All they can do now is save their bottom line. Hope for VB levels of sales, and replace the portable in 3 to 4 years time with a better thought out hardware and strategy. Until then it should allow them to be profitable with the 3DS.

As far as market relevance goes, the 3DS won't ever be a notable player. A distant third in most markets, a distinct second in Japan.

NB: This is my outlook on it. I'm not trying to troll, and still am very happy with the system itself, but from a business side, the 3DS is an unmitigated failure, and I simply can't see it bounce back in any meaningful fashion.
Someone could have plausibly written this during the first year of the 3DS's lifespan (in fact, I recall similar sentiments being expressed). Then came the onslaught of fun software, and all the sudden 3DS wasn't looking too shabby. While it remains to be seen if Nintendo can keep entertaining software for the Wii U flowing on the regular basis now that they've got a grip on HD and are expanding their operations, let's not pretend the Wii U's imminent failure is written in the stars.
 

cartridge

Banned
He's around because he talks a lot and he works for a big company that pays him to talk. That's literally the only two reasons you see him so often.

Pretty much nothing Pachter claims, advises, or admonishes should be taken seriously. He says some smart things every now and then, some dumb things much more often, but what he's really best at is selling himself by nonstop talking. He's really good at it.

Such a nuisance. "Why would anyone buy a WiiU?" What the fuck sort of question is that, and why is it getting ANY attention? Why does anyone do anything? Why get a haircut? Why wear matching socks?

Why does everything have to be a battle? WiiU vs. PS4. WiiU vs. Xbox One. Blah blah blah.

Hey, Pachter. Guess what? Gamers will play the games they like, on the system they like. Regardless of sales, or stock values. Or stupid premonitions. Of course they'll buy a WiiU for Nintendo games. How else are they going play them? On a PS4?
 

klier

Member
NSMB and Super Luigi U alone are worth buying the system for. Just fantastic games, particularly in multiplayer.
 

Knox

Member
Not really. The consoles support the games. We wouldn't be seeing games like X or The Wonderful 101 being funded if Nintendo didn't have a platform for their games.

Are you talking specifically about the second screen controls? I know Wonderful 101 uses it but I don't know much about X.

I suppose that's a good case for the Wii U. But, like the Wii, I wonder how many games will actually be made that rely on the control scheme (outside of first party).

If you're talking about "weird interesting games that only Nintendo is cool enough to get behind", then I have to call bullshit on that. Take a tour of PSN or Steam and prepare to have your mind blown.
 

Otsukare

Neo Member
They’re not going to sell a lot of consoles if they don’t have games like FIFA and Battlefield and Call of Duty/[/url]


Really Patcher. Have games really come to this, sport sim, war sim, war sim.

ARGGG.....


OH70uIk.gif
 
Pachter your like ten years late to this revelation. Most people know nintendo consoles are for nintendo games. Yes the audience is small compared to the wider gaming population but its still there and I'm sure loyal.
 

cartridge

Banned
.......surely you're being hyperbolic.

I'm not actually. The question he poses is equally trivial and meaningless.

Think about it. Why buy a WiiU? Why not? What does PS4 or Xbox have to do with WiiU? The same argument could be made about ANYTHING.

Why should PS4 or Xbox's strengths prevent someone from enjoying a WiiU and it's games?
 
Then came the onslaught of fun software and a 30% price cut in the US, 40% in Japan, and all the sudden 3DS wasn't looking too shabby.
Fixed. Strange how people always seem to omit that part while trying to falsely equate the situations.

The 3DS' 'recovery' has been largely Japanese led; in Western markets it has managed to consolidate the residual handheld market that has not vacated to smart devices due to a lack of viable alternatives in this space. These are things the Wii U cannot rely on; it has strong competing value propositions in the 360 and PS3 in the low end market, and two new systems to come for the high end market. And the Japanese home console market is not sufficient to lead a recovery.

Furthermore, it managed to score a major coup in stealing away a major third party franchise into an exclusive for the platform, cutting off the competition at the knees before it even launched.

The 3DS was never close to the dire levels of sales the Wii U is seeing - at its lowest point it was still selling ~3x more than the Wii U, it was never in a comparable situation in terms of software support. The situations aren't analogous.
 

squidyj

Member
Besides GTA which is on a 5 year release schedule.. I would never play any of the other games he listed.. which is maybe the exact reason why I will play on Wii U/3DS. For all the games that do not find the mass market audience of generic Sports/FPS games.

Bring on Wonderful 101, Bayonetta, Phoenix Wright, SMT, etc, + list wars. Japanese 3rd parties who are not pretending/wanting to be an EA, Activision, Ubi.. crafted games by creators.

....you do realize that your demographic isn't going to be able to support a console, right?
 

JoeM86

Member
Those two games were on a console that was lightning in a bottle that'll never be caught again. No Wii U game will ever sell 25 million. The best selling Gamecube game ever sold 1/4 of Mario Kart Wii.

Even if that was true, Nintendo game sales on a "dead" console still outsell most of the top games across multiple formats.

Look at New Super Mario Bros U. It has sold over 2 million on a console with an installbase of 3 million. Many titles aspire to that amount when they're spread across the 360 and PS3 with a combined installbase of 150m.

Look at the 3DS. It was flagging with sales too...only 6m units sold by October 2011 after 8 months on the market (4 million by August 2011 when the price cut came). Then, Mario and Mario Kart came out. The total console units reached 17m by April 2012 and Mario 3D Land and Mario Kart sold over 5 million each in just over 3 months on the market.

Don't tell me that Nintendo games don't sell because that is absolute twaddle.
 

69wpm

Member
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Anyway, it's Pachter, I can't take that guy seriously and I can't see how anyone can. There are tons of reasons (games) people bought and will buy a Wii U for. If he can't see them, he shouldn't call himself an analyst.
 

Aostia

El Capitan Todd
I honestly purchased the Wii U to play the exclusive games (a high % of them is Nintendo's) and for the Offtv play
 

amardilo

Member
I kind of agree with him.

Nintendo published games are really good and people I know who are into games (or know they exist) would buy a Wii U only for Nintendo published games. I don't think I know anyone wanting to get one for a 3rd party published title.
 
As console become more and more like PCs, 3rd parties will make game for PCs. Thus 1st party exclusive games will be the only thing that makes having a console worth it.
 
I like how personally people take Pachter's comments. As if he's literally saying there's no conceivable reason that someone would ever possibly buy a Wii U, as opposed to having the ability of rational inference and understanding he's saying the Wii U doesn't offer a compelling value proposition to the market.

Which it doesn't.

Which is why it isn't selling.

No amount of anecdotal "I bought it for Zombi U." "It has Lego City." "Look at all these games no one bought on it." changes that. If you set aside the post-purchase rationalisation induced rage and indignation, there's nothing particularly shocking about Pachter's comment.
Look at New Super Mario Bros U. It has sold over 2 million on a console with an installbase of 3 million.
The Wii U doesn't have an installed base of 3 million and the only way 2 million copies of NSMBU have been sold is if every single Wii U outside of the US bought the game.
 
Hes right. At the moment there is no incentive to buy one. The Nintendo die hard have/will buy it regardless.

The console just doesn't have that niche that the Wii had.
 
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