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Paper Mario: Color Splash Review Thread

Bakkus

Member
Chapter4, 5, in between 5 and 6, chapter 7

What happened in 5, between 5 and 6, plus chapter 7 which you qualify as backtracking? If you're referring to Admiral White in chapter 7, then that's a fetch quest which only takes a few minutes to complete out of a 35-40 hour long game. How people mention that as some really big annoyance in the game has always been mystifying to me.

It makes sense for the story, but doesn't really respect the player's time. If you want me to go back and forth in the same location, then give me access to a different path, or at least don't make the enemies respawn.
Paging my argument above, that backtracking only takes a few minutes in total out of a 35-40 hour long game. It's not Metroid Prime which is a game that really needed a fast travel mechanic, where you must often backtrack for like 20 minutes. I'm also not sure how they would be able to set up the whole 'what's my name' if you could always fast travel to Twilight Town from the castle. The first time you do so you're even meant to be helpless.

Color Splash is not streamlined. The level progression is not "from point A to point B" as you may expect, it's actually kind of open. There are fewer but bigger levels, with a good amount of exploration and multiple Paint Stars to collect.

It features a world map, with level entrances. That's streamlined to me.
 
What happened in 5, between 5 and 6, plus chapter 7 which you qualify as backtracking? If you're referring to Admiral White in chapter 7, then that's a fetch quest which only takes a few minutes to complete out of a 35-40 hour long game. How people mention that as some really big annoyance in the game has always been mystifying to me.


Paging my argument above, that backtracking only takes a few minutes in total out of a 35-40 hour long game. It's not Metroid Prime which is a game that really needed a fast travel mechanic, where you must often backtrack for like 20 minutes. I'm also not sure how they would be able to set up the whole 'what's my name' if you could always fast travel to Twilight Town from the castle. The first time you do so you're even meant to be helpless.



It features a world map, with level entrances. That's streamlined to me.

What in the hell are you doing that makes TTYD that long? TTYD is half of that total amount of hours.

You have also explained my issue with TTYD'S set up. It's unavoidable. You do it everytime, regardless of what you know. It's not something you can negate like say, the seeds in paper Mario or thing stickers considering you can have prior knowledge to help you avoid them.

In regards to chapter 5, you're essentially going back and forth until you are allowed to go into the dungeon. And then going back again after said chapter to look for a ring (now with paper shortcut.)
 

R0ckman

Member
i really enjoyed it. writting is top notch and the main reason i played it, gameplay is fine, battles are a bit dull but that's okay.

Battles, which are supposed to be the bread and butter of the gameplay are not enjoyable and its okay?

*Rapidly shakes head in confusion*
 

Alchemy

Member
So is combat still just a pointless resource drain like in Sticker Star? The RPG elements in SS were complete garbage and its the main thing I'm worried about in this game.
 
Battles, which are supposed to be the bread and butter of the gameplay are not enjoyable and its okay?

*Rapidly shakes head in confusion*

I strongly disagree battles were ever the bread and butter of the Paper Mario games. They were fine, but they were also the least interesting part about those games
 

maxcriden

Member
Oh okay. I guess that's fine since my concern was that my younger brother and I wouldn't be able to have our own files concurrently.

FWIW I'm not sure if I'm right, it's just a theory at the moment. I'll test it for you in a bit and report back.

So is combat still just a pointless resource drain like in Sticker Star? The RPG elements in SS were complete garbage and its the main thing I'm worried about in this game.

There is more point to the combat in this game, but not in terms of user customization or to the degree found in the first two Paper Mario games or the M&L series. In case it's of any help, I'll quote my longer post from a fee days ago in the other thread here:


BTW, I know there were some concerns (and some concern trolling XD) earlier that you wouldn't know how much damage your attacks do because no damage numbers are given. As a moderate alleviation of that concern, I think it's worth noting that when you attack enemies they lose color from the bottom up, depending on how damaged they are, and when they're nearly defeated they're almost devoid of color and the top of their body curls forward.

While this doesn't give an amazing idea of how much damage each hit does, it does show you how close the enemy is to defeat, which is at least as useful and IIRC not present at least from the get-go in any Paper Mario or Mario & Luigi game (I think badges might give similar functionality).

FWIW, though, since non-boss enemies almost never give the player a very hard time in the Paper Mario or Mario & Luigi games, seeing how close an enemy is to defeat is at least as useful as seeing how much damage you've done to them. It's also pretty evident which attacks are stronger or weaker than others based on the aesthetics of the card.

In the prior Mario RPGs (excepting SMRPG, which I can't speak to since I haven't played it), you know which gear and moves are more potent due to numbers given, but apart from "this thing is stronger than (or provides more defense than, raises speed compared to, etc.) that thing," it's not as though serious number crunching was generally necessary.

So in this game there is no permanent gear to equip that I've come across, but, purely on a combat side though there is definitively less depth, it's not as lacking as it may have appeared. I personally enjoy it and the enemies' moves and banter is clever, it's interesting to be able to summon enemies from cards, the timing is limited to one button but is often trickier than in at least the Paper Mario games for some of the basic attacks, and I believe it was indicated the Thing attacks have their own timed attack benefits but I'm not sure yet how to find out what they are.

The bottom line, the combat is definitely not as deep as in the other turn-based Mario RPGs, except for Sticker Star, which it is similar to. But, for the most part enemies seem less densely populated in the areas of the game we've encountered so far, so battles if I'm remembering Sticker Star correctly aren't quite as frequent as they were in that game.

The enemy moves and banter, the ability to use enemies as summons (which IIRFC wasn't in Sticker Star), and the benefit of accumulating paint HP essentially, makes battles have a bit more depth to them than in Sticker Star. But if you disliked Sticker Star, take my musings with a grain of salt because I liked Sticker Star a lot.

BTW, I know there's been a bit of debate over whether there is any purpose to increasing your paint meter. It's really going to depend on how you play the game, I think. If you get into most battles you encounter and are trying to paint all the areas, while paint in the areas is (cumulatively) somewhat plentiful, it helps immensely to increase your paint meter. We frequently are running out of one kind of paint or another (often one sort of paint is not as plentiful in an area that features a color scheme primarily based on the other colors) and will have some battle cards half-painted. In one area we ran out of yellow paint and weren't able to paint some of the spots we saw until we came back. One type of enemy takes a surprising chunk of your paint reserves of one color away and many of the environmental suppliers of paint (trees, flowers) only give you small bits of paint at a time. If you're exploring every nook and cranny and painting, it's significantly beneficial to be increasing the paint meter.

I strongly disagree battles were ever the bread and butter of the Paper Mario games. They were fine, but they were also the least interesting part about those games

Certainly in Super Paper Mario (which I love) they were at their dullest IMO, and then in the first two Paper Mario games they were at their greatest importance and highest complexity. Anyway, in this game the battles are a fun diversion but as you say by no means the bread and butter of the game. Perhaps the thin slice of gruyère placed on top.
 
Given Tropical Freeze is considered a great game by its own right and, at the very least, on par with Returns (with many giving it the crown between the two), what harm does its existence bring, exactly? "This game is so good, it doesn't need a sequel, no matter how great said sequel actually is" is one of the strangest arguments I've come across. That's like saying you'd prefer if, for example, Majora's Mask or Super Mario Galaxy 2 never happened, because their prequels were so good already.

Somebody said the exact same thing in the DK TF thread a few days ago. My answer was exactly the same as yours
 
What happened in 5, between 5 and 6, plus chapter 7 which you qualify as backtracking? If you're referring to Admiral White in chapter 7, then that's a fetch quest which only takes a few minutes to complete out of a 35-40 hour long game. How people mention that as some really big annoyance in the game has always been mystifying to me.
I don't think this is the best place to discuss TTYD, but Petal Meadows, Boggly Woods, Twilight Trail, Keelhaul Key, etc. are all straight linear levels, where you're asked to go back and forth until you can access the dungeon. Not sure about the Moon, I replayed it up to chapter 6 a couple of weeks ago.

I'll take chapter 5 as an example: first, you reach the end of Keelhaul Key to talk to Bobbery, then you go all the way back to the beginning of Keelhaul Key to talk to Flavio who asks you for a coconut (and I'll assume you already picked it up for the sake of brevity - I didn't). Then you go all the way back to Bobbery at the end of Keelhaul Key to give him the item and receive Bobbery as a partner, then you go all the way back to Flavio at the beginning of Keelhaul Key, he joins you temporarily and then the three of you go all the way back to the end of Keelhaul Key where you can finally enter the dungeon. It's not a few minutes or an occasional annoyance, it's the way the whole game is structured: a back and forth along a straight path until you have access to the (usually great) dungeon. The same formula applies to chapter 1 (with a single instance of backtracking), chapter 2 (a couple of instances), chapter 4 (I counted: seven instances). Chapters 3 and 6 take place in a small handful of rooms.

In context, it all makes sense. It's a fantastic story, but far from fantastic level design.

It features a world map, with level entrances. That's streamlined to me.
Luckily it's not, take a look at the map:

IPhaRQe.png


It's a single interconnected world with fewer, bigger levels. Just like in TTYD, each area has a predetermined starting point, but then you're free to explore in different directions, and you unlock more levels at once. Yes, there are a few instances where two Paint Stars are placed close to each other and you need to travel through the level again (Kiwano Temple comes to mind as a big offender), but never more than once in a level, unlike the continuous back-and-forth I described above.

Here's Sticker Star in comparison. This is a streamlined game:

World4PMSS.png
 

Mory Dunz

Member
I'm glad this got good reviews scores so people can stop bashing a fun game for absolutely no reason than their own expectations.

Ha, if you think that'll stop people from mindlessly bashing it, boy do I have news for you

And on the other extreme there will be mindless defenders, as with any game. shurg

But in the middle and among actual back&forths, I would argue with confidence that overall the people who criticize/detract from the game in any way, have been more analytical and example based in what we're saying, than those leaning on the opposite side.

I strongly disagree battles were ever the bread and butter of the Paper Mario games. They were fine, but they were also the least interesting part about those games

even going by this as true, they took the least interesting aspect of the game and have made it progressively even worse in the past 12 years lol...
 
I will. Thank you. Got it on Wii VC. Any particular reason you suggest it?


I feel like it is the complete package. The gameplay, music, and writing are all excellent. I have played through at nearly 10 times. It's also where it all started with Mario RPG's so it should be a cool experience to see the origins of these games. I don't want to spoil anything so I'll leave it at that.
 
I'm absolutely loving this game (i am half through chapter 3 10 hours in), the whole thing is polished as fuck, i can go back and talk to any NPC and they always have something different to say which makes the world feel alive just like TTYD did (and the writing is surprisingly good). I can recommend the game just going by world and presentation.

Talking about if battles are worth it or not, im sure u can't just avoid enemies and get to the final boss, i've been fighting most of the enemies i found and i've ran out of paint a couple of times


i can say that while being a lot different to the first 2 paper mario it's up there in amount of fun.
 

RPGCrazied

Member
Nice reviews, but I'm passing. I can't buy this. Cause if it gets strong sales, it will never change and we will never get a proper Paper Mario.
 

R0ckman

Member
Nice reviews, but I'm passing. I can't buy this. Cause if it gets strong sales, it will never change and we will never get a proper Paper Mario.

I had to make the same decision, I can't reward them for this. But since it is a whole new team I don't think they would be up to the task. Hopefully they can tackle a remake of the first game.
 

RPGCrazied

Member
I had to make the same decision, I can't reward them for this. But since it is a whole new team I don't think they would be up to the task. Hopefully they can tackle a remake of the first game.

Right? How hard is it to make a TTYD like game? I want followers, I want a good fun story with good characters, not just toads and bowser family.
 

Dr. Buni

Member
I would say that I hope they somehow get the message that they need to go in a different direction, but I don't even think they care
They don't though? It is fine if you don't like the newer games, but it doesn't mean they need to change. I mean, I'd like a new Paper Mario with a cool villain and partners, too, but it seems like aside from the vocal minority, people are enjoy the new PM games.
 
I mean...I don't think that anyone who was annoyed or angry about the direction the Paper Mario series went was going to be convinced with good reviews to get this.
 

R0ckman

Member
Didn't Sticker Star have a bunch of 80's tho?

Yeah, thats what caused the passionate backlash. People were a bit skepticle but the reviews led people to give it a chance, many people I saw in GAF said they would not be fooled again, but it seems this time people have been dealing with the situation by just accepting that this is where the franchise is headed.
 

DJKhaled

Member
Looks good, so do you need to use the gamepad or can i use the Pro controller? because I can't stand games where I have to use the gamepad.
 

El Odio

Banned
I don't get this mindset of "If I don't buy this new entry then they'll have to go back to the old versions." Seems more likely that it'll just lead to either further experimentation, killing the franchise off or making it dormant, or more likely, nothing.

Personally I've had this preordered for a while now and am looking forward to it arriving Friday. The pretty positive reviews only make me more excited.
 
I don't get this mindset of "If I don't buy this new entry then they'll have to go back to the old versions." Seems more likely that it'll just lead to either further experimentation, killing the franchise off or making it dormant, or more likely, nothing.

Personally I've had this preordered for a while now and am looking forward to it arriving Friday. The pretty positive reviews only make me more excited.

Some people just can't accept that it can be a good game on its own merits, without also being a Thousand Year Door sequel.

And I say that as one who also wants a TYD2 some day!
 

maxcriden

Member
Gah! This game is so fun. Huey is hilarious and the writing blows away Sticker Star from what I remember of the game. As much as I enjoyed it a lot, I didn't think the writing was one of its strong suits. The nonlinearity isn't like Link Between Worlds or anything but it's way beyond what Sticker Star had.

Oh okay. I guess that's fine since my concern was that my younger brother and I wouldn't be able to have our own files concurrently.

FWIW I'm not sure if I'm right, it's just a theory at the moment. I'll test it for you in a bit and report back.

Ok, good news! I went into our other user profile and started the game and it stated the opening cutscene. I didn't get to a save point or anything but I imagine this will work for you. I hope it will, I'd hate for you to have one of you overwrite the other's save file by starting a new game in their profile and saving but I have to imagine it doesn't work like that.
 

jnWake

Member
I mean...I don't think that anyone who was annoyed or angry about the direction the Paper Mario series went was going to be convinced with good reviews to get this.

The funny thing is those people trying to make up weird reasons why good reviews don't matter or are inaccurate. It's like when a hyped game gets bad reviews and people flip out but in the opposite way.
 

MrBadger

Member
I had to make the same decision, I can't reward them for this. But since it is a whole new team I don't think they would be up to the task. Hopefully they can tackle a remake of the first game.

TBH Colour Splash's writing and scenarios gives me the impression that they're perfectly capable of making something like TTYD but they chose not to. That game's battle system is hardly complex, after all. It's basically this game's battle system only without all the colouring in and flicking of cards.
 

zelas

Member
I don't get this mindset of "If I don't buy this new entry then they'll have to go back to the old versions." Seems more likely that it'll just lead to either further experimentation, killing the franchise off or making it dormant, or more likely, nothing.

Personally I've had this preordered for a while now and am looking forward to it arriving Friday. The pretty positive reviews only make me more excited.

Sonic eventually came back around. Its a video game, if choosing not to settle leads to nothing (or iterations that will be regarded as nothing anyway) we'll survive.

Besides, Paper Mario was supported before Sticker Star and we still ended up with these weird battle systems. It's like it doesnt matter how well a game sells, Nintendo gonna Nintendo.
 

Shaanyboi

Banned
after Sticker Star, I'll wait for the Gaf impressions.

Dan from Giantbomb sounded piiiiissed about the battle system being a slog and NPCs all being the same.
 

Alex

Member
I do not think any writing can save the Sticker Star combat for me if it is that poor, sadly. I imagine I'll try it some time but I miss the days of not having to question these games.
 
And on the other extreme there will be mindless defenders, as with any game. shurg

But in the middle and among actual back&forths, I would argue with confidence that overall the people who criticize/detract from the game in any way, have been more analytical and example based in what we're saying, than those leaning on the opposite side.

Hating it for what it wasn't instead of what it is isn't analytical at all. That's a really flawed assumption, that only people who can find fault are being analytical, it's pretty bullshit.
 
This sounds like a must buy for Sticker Star fans.

I don't know if this will please people who want something like The Thousand Year Door, despite the audiovisuals and supposedly great storytelling. Seems like another love it or hate it.
 

Mory Dunz

Member
Hating it for what it wasn't instead of what it is isn't analytical at all. That's a really flawed assumption, that only people who can find fault are being analytical, it's pretty bullshit.

disagree with both points here. While CS has a precedent, the game has been dissected on it's on own merits.
- For example, the negatives of battle system on apply even if TTYD doesn't exist. In Arlo's video, the things he mentions are just poor design. Universally. Even if this game was called Sammy's Paint Shop Adventure with no precedent whatsoever.
- Not even sure where you pulled the second part from. Never said anything about "only X people can..."
 

Bakkus

Member
What in the hell are you doing that makes TTYD that long? TTYD is half of that total amount of hours.

You have also explained my issue with TTYD'S set up. It's unavoidable. You do it everytime, regardless of what you know. It's not something you can negate like say, the seeds in paper Mario or thing stickers considering you can have prior knowledge to help you avoid them.

In regards to chapter 5, you're essentially going back and forth until you are allowed to go into the dungeon. And then going back again after said chapter to look for a ring (now with paper shortcut.)

Hunting for all the shine sprites and star pieces, plus doing the trouble center and pit of 100 trials. Yeah, that's probably a completionist run, but I love the game so much, which is why i'm disgusted by the direction the series has taken.

Is it really that big of problem when it only takes a few minutes? The "backtracking" you're speaking of in chapter 5 is a joke. It takes no time at all to go from the camp to the cave entrance. And I still don't know what you're referring to in the prologue for chapter 6.
 

Neptonic

Member
Everything Dan said on this week's Bombcast made me not want to touch this game at all. Battle system sounds like tedious garbage.
Too bad since the writing seems to be good.
 

alf717

Member
Was planning to pick this up regardless of the scores. Good to see the scores are coming in nicely for those who need them to make the decision.
 

Krabboss

Member
Writing might be the best it has ever been in a Paper Mario game, but the combat is beyond boring. It takes so exceedingly long to get though a basic encounter that it gets old within the first hour. The amount of touch screen swiping you have to do only makes it worse. It's incredibly frustrating that they went with this system instead of tweaking it at all to make it less garbage. Holy cow it's slow.
 
TBH Colour Splash's writing and scenarios gives me the impression that they're perfectly capable of making something like TTYD but they chose not to. That game's battle system is hardly complex, after all. It's basically this game's battle system only without all the colouring in and flicking of cards.

Yeah, people are looking at the first two games with nostalgia goggles on, the battle system isn't THAT different, the basics are still the same, it's just in a different flavour. M&L's battle system is much more complex and fun IMO.
 

Yukinari

Member
The eventual Gamexplain discussion for this game is gonna be interesting.

At least Andre likes the game more than Star Fox Zero.
 

Vibed

Member
I'd much prefer a SPM style game if it included bringing back the original characters, world, and story. Just make any battle system that is sound, no holes that could even potentially make it arbitrary or tiresome. I play Paper Mario for the presentation, I think, so it's great this nails the humor/writing, art, and music.

I want this game to get middling sales. Enough to say, "Let's continue Paper Mario" but not enough to say "Let's continue this style".

Thus, it's good some fans like me are buying it and some are not!

Note I know nothing about how sales and opportunity cost actually works
 
I'd much prefer a SPM style game if it included bringing back the original characters, world, and story. Just make any battle system that is sound, no holes that could even potentially make it arbitrary or tiresome. I play Paper Mario for the presentation, I think, so it's great this nails the humor/writing, art, and music.

I want this game to get middling sales. Enough to say, "Let's continue Paper Mario" but not enough to say "Let's continue this style".

Thus, it's good some fans like me are buying it and some are not!

Note I know nothing about how sales and opportunity cost actually works

I don't think they'll use the same concept for the third time, Paper Mario has never done that. They'll most likely do something else next time.
 

Bakkus

Member
I don't think they'll use the same concept for the third time, Paper Mario has never done that. They'll most likely do something else next time.

You're not seeing the difference. What they're doing now is far easier than PM 1 & 2. Takes less effort, less creativity.
 
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