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PastaPadre: Virtual Currency Threatens Future of the NBA2K Series

This thread is making me want to quit gaming.

Vote with your wallets people. Get this spread to as many people as possible. My hobby, go the fuck home, you're way past drunk.

edit: I understand that this game had a lot of this patched in, but other games like Forza 5 and games coming in the future applying this to a full $60 purchase is just depressing.
 

BONDO

Member
Considering 2K Sports pays little attention to gripes the 2k series has had for YEARS...i highly doubt they will aknowledge this and take care of it.
Online has been broke for years and its still the same shit today
 

Derrick01

Banned
Considering 2K Sports pays little attention to gripes the 2k series has had for YEARS...i highly doubt they will aknowledge this and take care of it.
Online has been broke for years and its still the same shit today

Yup sales will be the only thing they listen to. I'm not buying another NBA game from them again until I find out most of this is fixed. I don't care much about the online but this VC garbage has got to go.

Be happy with your 10 million sales every year or you'll get less and less.
 

BadAss2961

Member
R1mXUtN.png

It also costs 500VC, which requires two games at the default setting.
The VC complaints in MyGM are overblown. Other than some basic abilities like this one and firing certain people in your organization, everything else you have to earn is gravy. All the extra perks that require VC are things that weren't in Association mode in the old games. In theory, you could have a successful MyGM without ever using VC.

Association mode was basically default MyGM without the perks.
 

BONDO

Member
Yet, this thing scores in the high 90s everytime.
2K/VC must think they have a solid game everytime.

It gets Jay Z to produce though...
 

wowlace

Member
Here's a doozy. Just now I earned 872vc in a game in my career. Straight into the menu after the game heading to the next game. Total vc = 747. How can I have less than what I earned the game 10 seconds earlier? Pretty sure I had +200vc before I entered the game. Fuck me 2k not only do you fleece us with stingy vc earnings you rob me too? Fuck you guys. Fuck you guys.
 
Here's a doozy. Just now I earned 872vc in a game in my career. Straight into the menu after the game heading to the next game. Total vc = 747. How can I have less than what I earned the game 10 seconds earlier? Pretty sure I had +200vc before I entered the game. Fuck me 2k not only do you fleece us with stingy vc earnings you rob me too? Fuck you guys. Fuck you guys.

At least you are getting that much. I played a game in MyCareer and we were 13 up, i could not make shit even though "good shot selection" and then get benched, we lose.

0 vc.

10 minutes of playing.

0 VC.

Fuck 2K, I realize I am not good but this shit is beyond terrible.
 

CrapSandwich

former Navy SEAL
The lesson is that the idiots are winning. They've got money, they don't give a shit, they'll spend it on VC, season passes, and map packs. Corporate VPs then start creaming their pants over how brilliant they are for building a new revenue stream, and before you know it, the medium is ruined. Most effective protest is not to not buy the game, that's a futile approach, but to get your ass on Twitter and raise hell. Twitter criticism makes the corporate publicists squirm, which makes the execute team squirm. It's the only solution, gentlemen.
 

epmode

Member
The VC complaints in MyGM are overblown. Other than some basic abilities like this one and firing certain people in your organization, everything else you have to earn is gravy. All the extra perks that require VC are things that weren't in Association mode in the old games. In theory, you could have a successful MyGM without ever using VC.

Association mode was basically default MyGM without the perks.

Proposal: All future videogame sequels cost $60. All new features over the last game have to be unlocked using a limited in-game currency that can also be purchased for real money.
 

Cronox

Banned
A responsible games media would report about this. Also, I think the "how much do post-purchase transactions effect the game experience" question needs to be discussed in all future reviews, if not made into a separate category and even scored along with the games' review score in the future.
 
Look, I don't have a problem with monetization if done right (I mean, I don't expect people to work on a game for free, this is a job), but not like this.

You can sell addtitional content that it's not required to actually fully enjoy the game or whatever, but if all you are going to do is sell the game at full prize, then ask for additional money to be paid to access every aspect of the game it starts feeling like a kidnapping. The publishers/devs have taken the game to some random location, they are sending you a finger as proof that they have it and are asking you for money so you can get your life/fun back.

Wrong model and I hope it backfires bad.
 

QaaQer

Member
Look, I don't have a problem with monetization if done right (I mean, I don't expect people to work on a game for free, this is a job), but not like this.

You can sell addtitional content that it's not required to actually fully enjoy the game or whatever, but if all you are going to do is sell the game at full prize, then ask for additional money to be paid to access every aspect of the game it starts feeling like a kidnapping. The publishers/devs have taken the game to some random location, they are sending you a finger as proof that they have it and are asking you for money so you can get your life/fun back.

Wrong model and I hope it backfires bad.

Or, you know, you can do what most other industries do and price your product appropriately. Why is $60 sacrosanct?
 
Or, you know, you can do what most other industries do and price your product appropriately. Why is $60 sacrosanct?
It's not. In fact, most of the world pays way more than that. In principle, prices should be adjusted for inflation.

That said, I don't think the existing model is the only possible one (or the best) and you could also make a case that the industry is pushing for absurd budgets in every game as well. There are alternatives.

In the end, people can only dedicate a limited amount of money to gaming and every publisher is trying to get a bigger slice, but if that results in less satisfied customers they will go elsewhere. Other industries have more mature and effective monetization methods that involve multiple revenue streams and gaming should learn from them in this aspect.
 

samman6

Member
I have no problem with these fake currencies, so long as everything in the game can be unlocked for free and doesn't take an ungodly amount of time to unlock. If people want to spend more to have stuff unlocked immediately so be it, but as soon as you make something near impossible to unlock without money, fuck off. Now In F2P game obviously its a little different.
 

QaaQer

Member
I have no problem with these fake currencies, so long as everything in the game can be unlocked for free and doesn't take an ungodly amount of time to unlock. If people want to spend more to have stuff unlocked immediately so be it, but as soon as you make something near impossible to unlock without money, fuck off. Now In F2P game obviously its a little different.

Is that why you play games? to unlock stuff?
 
Is that why you play games? to unlock stuff?

Isn't that kind of the point of games in general? "Unlock" is just another term for progression. Most games have a level of progression. I can't think of one that doesn't.

The issue here is that the level of progression has increased astronomically and they have "helped" you by making the grind easier with purchasing your "unlocks".

Most games give you "something", even if you lose when it comes to some sort of in-game currency. Racing games give you a few credits, shooters may give you something (XP, points, etc ... ), RPG's give you XP usually when fighting even the lowliest of monsters. It's just expected. Games are supposed to be fun.

This game will reward you with nothing even for things out of your control. A coach's challenge comes up, "Get the game within 10" and you make 2 3 pointers, team doesn't pass to you, you're benched and half time automatically completes. You lose the game overall and get 0 VC for it (just had this happen). 5-8 minutes of playing and absolutely nothing. But, I can buy some.

That's fucking despicable.
 

turnbuckle

Member
Isn't that kind of the point of games in general? "Unlock" is just another term for progression. Most games have a level of progression. I can't think of one that doesn't.

The issue here is that the level of progression has increased astronomically and they have "helped" you by making the grind easier with purchasing your "unlocks".

Most games give you "something", even if you lose when it comes to some sort of in-game currency. Racing games give you a few credits, shooters may give you something (XP, points, etc ... ), RPG's give you XP usually when fighting even the lowliest of monsters. It's just expected. Games are supposed to be fun.

This game will reward you with nothing even for things out of your control. A coach's challenge comes up, "Get the game within 10" and you make 2 3 pointers, team doesn't pass to you, you're benched and half time automatically completes. You lose the game overall and get 0 VC for it (just had this happen). 5-8 minutes of playing and absolutely nothing. But, I can buy some.

That's fucking despicable.

Exactly.

JRPGs is one of my favorite genres. Fighting games as well (and I include Smash in there, come at me...)

Both are genres notorious for either grinds or unlocks. In the case of RPGs, unlocking a skill (say, like, grinding for hours to unlock a class in Dragon Quest VII). But when there are things put into the game that are paid for that can reduce the grind, well, that's a whole different thing for me. At that point you don't know if the design was built around finding a sweet spot where you could get just enough people to take the paid shortcut while still allowing people to claim that "it's no different than the past, now it's just an optional convenience".

To get rid of any doubt, get rid of the paid shortcuts. Calling them a convenience is bullshit; a convenience would be a code. A convenience could be something at least more palpable like double XP weekends or (like in world of warcraft) "rested EXP", a small bonus for when you're not playing.

A convenience shouldn't come with a price tag. The game already does.

In my post about MLB the show...I admit it's conjecture, but it's conjecture based on trends we're seeing right now across the industry and even trends Sony San Diego has been showing in their series over the past few years.

So if I'm jumping the gun a bit, well, isn't that what we're supposed to do? Read any thread on these kinds of things popping up and one of the common responses is "if you're complaining now, it's too late". So, complain earlier. Ask questions earlier. Be skeptical. Vote with your dollar. The trend of the industry is headed in one direction, but trends can be reversed. Just look at the DRM campaign.

The way things are heading gaming is starting to look a lot more like gambling. Not real gambling with fixed odds like blackjack; but that fake, controlled gambling like electronic slots or rigged carnival games. The example of the game giving you goals that it won't allow you to meet is perfect. "Score 10 points...in 2 plays...or you're done"
 
I have no problem with these fake currencies, so long as everything in the game can be unlocked for free and doesn't take an ungodly amount of time to unlock. If people want to spend more to have stuff unlocked immediately so be it, but as soon as you make something near impossible to unlock without money, fuck off. Now In F2P game obviously its a little different.

yeah but it makes no sense to lock things away from the very beginning that were available before. You literally can't play certain game modes right away without vc. the hell was the $60+ for?
 
yeah but it makes no sense to lock things away from the very beginning that were available before. You literally can't play certain game modes right away without vc. the hell was the $60+ for?

Maybe it's just an elite club. $60 cover charge and you still have to buy your drinks.
 

Derrick01

Banned
Traded this in today along with a few other games. By the way if anyone was thinking of doing the same I got $40 for each PS4 game at my gamestop. I don't know if this is nationwide but it seems like since the systems are still in high demand they were giving $40 base value for a lot of these games, like NBA.
 

pastapadre

Neo Member
We'll be doing a live Press Row Hangout tonight centering largely on this issue at 11ET/8PT. It'll be available to watch any time after and we'll also put it out in podcast form in a few days.
 

turnbuckle

Member
2006 Best of 1UP Yours

Man...just listening through this best of and there are so many points they're hitting on way back in 2006 that apply today.

Of course there's the complaining about Horse Armor but...

- Talking about developers mulling selling "consumables" for real money
- Talking about tying a game to a console ala DRM
- Talking about how they are ripping people off selling a digital version of a game for $60
- Talking about piecing apart games and selling them (Lumines 360 great example)
- I think it was luke who called this stuff "microrapements"

Just hearing the disdain and outright criticism for these anti-consumer things in their voices makes me wonder if one of the reasons the best of the people at 1up mostly left because of the pressure of parroting PR lines.

Wish we could get the 1up guys to get together again and reflect back on how this stuff all shook out and how the future of this stuff looks...but most/all of them are now working for companies where they'd either not be able to comment on it, they'd need to spin it as a positive, or otherwise have to restrain themselves. :(
 
I really hope the average consumer is bothered enough by this kind of thing that their spending habits change and publishers have a reason to take notice of our complaints. My fear though is that people will come to accept it as it becomes more commonplace, especially as game designers learn how to be more subtle in their methods of pushing the player to spend real money for in-game currency/items.
 

DietRob

i've been begging for over 5 years.
We'll be doing a live Press Row Hangout tonight centering largely on this issue at 11ET/8PT. It'll be available to watch any time after and we'll also put it out in podcast form in a few days.

Thanks for helping bring this cancer to light. Where can I watch or listen to this? pm plz
 

wowlace

Member
Again the game has robbed me of vc earned in a match. Earned plus 800 vc. 700 vc directly after the match. What a joke. I have contacted support.
 
Excellent show by Pastapadre and Rich Grisham. They really break down the issues and raise the point that this will spread IF we don't keep the discussion going. Great listen.
 
I've asked this elsewhere, but would it be worth targeting Take-Two Interactive as well as 2K with any issues concerning NBA2K and VC? Widen the net so to speak?
 

Smokey

Member
I've asked this elsewhere, but would it be worth targeting Take-Two Interactive as well as 2K with any issues concerning NBA2K and VC? Widen the net so to speak?

They won't respond and probably don't care since the series does very well. They also don't have any competition to worry about.
 

turnbuckle

Member
They won't respond and probably don't care since the series does very well. They also don't have any competition to worry about.

This is one of the things that really scares me about MLB The Show.
I've already felt Sony San Diego has gotten away with a lot of stuff; tons of glitches that persist from year to year to year. Some game breaking glitches.

Now that they're the only game in town...well....

Gonna watch that show in a bit. I agree, it's really important to keep the discussion going. It's important for there to be threads on this for each and every game this becomes a problem in. A catch-all thread is good too, but lumping everything into one thread tends to hide specifics from the rest of the community
 

Takuan

Member
Even though I'm enjoying My Career and its many, many faults, I can't see myself supporting these guys after this game. There's just way too much fuckery coming at you from all angles.

If this wasn't a basketball game, it'd get far more coverage.
 

pastapadre

Neo Member
They won't respond and probably don't care since the series does very well. They also don't have any competition to worry about.

It's fascinating to see Turn 10 responding with changes to their economy in Forza 5 contrasted with the total silence from 2K. If they're hoping that this is just going to blow over and they can continue down the path they started shaping in 2K14 that's why people have to keep pressuring them on this.

If 2K adjusted the payouts of VC and lowered the costs of items that would help - and recognizing that they had done wrong with an admission of it would be a good first step - but even that wouldn't solve the biggest problem with VC which is being pooled together instead of isolated to individual modes.
 

Smokey

Member
It's fascinating to see Turn 10 responding with changes to their economy in Forza 5 contrasted with the total silence from 2K. If they're hoping that this is just going to blow over and they can continue down the path they started shaping in 2K14 that's why people have to keep pressuring them on this.

If 2K adjusted the payouts of VC and lowered the costs of items that would help - and recognizing that they had done wrong with an admission of it would be a good first step - but even that wouldn't solve the biggest problem with VC which is being pooled together instead of isolated to individual modes.

Yeah I would be ok with them adjusting the economy. Do SOMETHING. But to not say anything at all is a slap in the face.


In addition to your podcast, I made mention of this in the weekend confirmed thread earlier this week to get them to talk about it. They put up the new episode, and they mention 2k14 as a topic to discuss.

So at the very least this is starting to get some good run. Will make them look like bigger clowns if they still refuse to comment.
 
I am earning more VC with the iOS application (just choosing an envelope every 24 hours) than I ever could in the game in a couple hours of playing MyCareer.

I'm still holding out hope. Not trading it in (yet). I want them to fix this, at least T10 is doing something but 2K isn't even commenting on it ...
 
I know that this thread is about VC...and I don't want to derail things but it's also not worth adding another one for. But in last night's hangout/podcast, it was mentioned that leagues are worthless and have been for a long time. Everybody has their own 'big issue' with the game, and this is mine. they have been failing and destroying leagues before they forced 'online association with no customization options' on us in the past few years, but they continue somehow making it worse

we used to be able to do fantasy drafts and choose roughly the number of games, many other things---now? LOL

Of all the things I don't want this one to go unnoticed the most. and I know that this probably affects a really small part of their gaming population but it's just flat out disgraceful
 

Takuan

Member
It's fascinating to see Turn 10 responding with changes to their economy in Forza 5 contrasted with the total silence from 2K. If they're hoping that this is just going to blow over and they can continue down the path they started shaping in 2K14 that's why people have to keep pressuring them on this.

If 2K adjusted the payouts of VC and lowered the costs of items that would help - and recognizing that they had done wrong with an admission of it would be a good first step - but even that wouldn't solve the biggest problem with VC which is being pooled together instead of isolated to individual modes.

To be fair, I don't think it's as bad as the Forza debacle mainly because they don't have star players on your favorite NBA team locked behind VC. Also, at least for My Career mode, it makes sense to have to grind since you're not supposed to be a superstar from the beginning; it was a little frustrating to start, but I've gotten the hang of things and regularly drop 30 points as a point guard rated at 78.

Having said that, I'm all for an increase in VC payouts. Primary stat upgrades get prohibitively expensive fast. I haven't even begun to look at any other VC stuff.

I know that this thread is about VC...and I don't want to derail things but it's also not worth adding another one for. But in last night's hangout/podcast, it was mentioned that leagues are worthless and have been for a long time. Everybody has their own 'big issue' with the game, and this is mine. they have been failing and destroying leagues before they forced 'online association with no customization options' on us in the past few years, but they continue somehow making it worse

we used to be able to do fantasy drafts and choose roughly the number of games, many other things---now? LOL

Of all the things I don't want this one to go unnoticed the most. and I know that this probably affects a really small part of their gaming population but it's just flat out disgraceful
The removal of these sorts of hardcore features in favor of implementing half-baked modes conducive to an additional revenue stream is garbage.
 

wowlace

Member
I am earning more VC with the iOS application (just choosing an envelope every 24 hours) than I ever could in the game in a couple hours of playing MyCareer.

I'm still holding out hope. Not trading it in (yet). I want them to fix this, at least T10 is doing something but 2K isn't even commenting on it ...

What's the app called?
 
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