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"PC piracy, one day stats, nay-sayers pwned"
- Thread starter Wunderchu
- Start date
Vast Inspiration
Banned
Draft said:
:O
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Going after access doesn't work once people have gotten a taste of it. Shutting down napster didn't slow down sharing music at all. Things got worse as the next services that got popular with the mainstream supported searching for all file types and multi-part downloading. Piracy is a social issue and fighting it is hurt by the fact there is so much grey or free content available everywhere that even legitimate people are getting used to not paying for media in the way people used to in the past.GSG Flash said:
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
PC gaming is on the decline, but piracy isn't soley to blame.
(listed in no particular order...)
1) Yeah, piracy. There's no realiable way to gauge how many downloads actually result in lost sales, but it definitely is a factor. You're in denial if you think otherwise.
2) Consoles. Consoles are in the mainstream now, whereas PC games are usually niche games played on a niche platform. Not to mention, you have to near-constantly upgrade your box to be able to play the latest and greatest games. It's a bitch, it's expensive, and sometimes, games don't jive with your box well for random reasons. Unless you're a super-lucarative MMORPG (something that was hard to make even before WoW started dominating the scene), console games are almost always going to be more profitable and less financially risky, thus, fewer companies spend that much time on PC games.
PCs used to be able to do things that consoles couldn't. Games like Phantasmagoria, Myst, The Neverhood, etc, did things that consoles in that era just couldn't do. PCs don't have that advantage anymore.
3) Most people aren't on dial-up anymore.
4) The rise of torrents and well-known torrent sites that make it easy to find just about anything.
--
I don't see this ending unless something is done on the hardware side, because software will almost always be cracked in some way. Whatever that would be, though, I don't know. Maybe start making games with some sort of specialized "this is a real copy" groove in the disc, and cooperate with disc drive makers so that they can start making drives that can read these grooves. Some third-party will make a reverse-engineered version of these grooved discs of course, but it would make piracy harder, thus cutting into the lost sales some. But I don't ever see anything like this happening, and it doesn't address the other problems.
Basically, PC gaming will continue to decline and there's little that can be done to stop it.
(listed in no particular order...)
1) Yeah, piracy. There's no realiable way to gauge how many downloads actually result in lost sales, but it definitely is a factor. You're in denial if you think otherwise.
2) Consoles. Consoles are in the mainstream now, whereas PC games are usually niche games played on a niche platform. Not to mention, you have to near-constantly upgrade your box to be able to play the latest and greatest games. It's a bitch, it's expensive, and sometimes, games don't jive with your box well for random reasons. Unless you're a super-lucarative MMORPG (something that was hard to make even before WoW started dominating the scene), console games are almost always going to be more profitable and less financially risky, thus, fewer companies spend that much time on PC games.
PCs used to be able to do things that consoles couldn't. Games like Phantasmagoria, Myst, The Neverhood, etc, did things that consoles in that era just couldn't do. PCs don't have that advantage anymore.
3) Most people aren't on dial-up anymore.
4) The rise of torrents and well-known torrent sites that make it easy to find just about anything.
--
I don't see this ending unless something is done on the hardware side, because software will almost always be cracked in some way. Whatever that would be, though, I don't know. Maybe start making games with some sort of specialized "this is a real copy" groove in the disc, and cooperate with disc drive makers so that they can start making drives that can read these grooves. Some third-party will make a reverse-engineered version of these grooved discs of course, but it would make piracy harder, thus cutting into the lost sales some. But I don't ever see anything like this happening, and it doesn't address the other problems.
Basically, PC gaming will continue to decline and there's little that can be done to stop it.
Teknopathetic
Member
"Basically, PC gaming will continue to decline and there's little that can be done to stop it."
It's like GAF's in its own alternate dimension where things are completely different from reality.
It's like GAF's in its own alternate dimension where things are completely different from reality.
KyanMehwulfe
Member
The problem isn't that it's often the case; the problem is that it's not 100% case.andydumi said:
Meaning that for every 10 of those games that someone wouldn't have bought anyhow, there could be 1 or 2 that they may have bought but now no longer will.
And no matter the ratio, it's clearly still impacting sales of many games, thus one of the problems.
There's a difference when companies are willingly throwing music videos on youtube.Grayman said:
But yes; I was watching pirated videos on VHS, music was copied onto cassettes, every game we owned for the C64 wasn't an original.. heck I'm almost certain that there were a few Atari games we had that weren't original.
Everything that is in your post is so stupid and wrong that I'm surprised your body is allowing you to breathe.Lost Fragment said:
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
speedpop said:
Care to explain?
And aren't you the one who thinks piracy was as rampant back in the day as it is now?
WoW priv servers have gotten better as server emulation has matured, but its still nothing like playing on a legit server. Most of they time you just dick around on it since you get more xp , gold , whatever so it makes life a little bit easier. But you miss out on a real community.
Metalmurphy
Member
I'm pretty sure those stats aren't much different then they were a few years ago, PC gaming didn't die then either.
All of those are true. Stuff has always been copied a lot but it was done copy by copy or person to person. Now an infinite number of people can be getting a copy from the same source at the same time. People copying onto cassette needed the songs to be in radio rotation or a friend to have the tape. They probably had libraries sized to match those means. Am I wrong in thinking that it is different that people now have thousands of songs instead of a few dozens?speedpop said:
Record labels do have youtube accounts but I was thinking of the older videos that were put up by someone who got the video off of irc or an ftp years ago.
KyanMehwulfe
Member
I assume it's no different than a PTR. There's no sense of worth or satisfaction to anything you do, and that's a critical core part what makes the RPG experience.evlcookie said:
Woo-Fu said:
But it's pretty damn true. Was in my case when I was a poor college student. Does it mean it should be acceptable... no... but true ya pretty much.
I was saying the other day that developer's should somehow offer college discounts to students. Lower prices for people that normally can't spare the full price might go a long way. Not only in getting extra sales... but establishing good consumer relationships when these college students graduate and have an income.
Of course I am. But that doesn't mean that PC gaming is on the trap-door with a noose around its neck. When Doom 3 leaked and every bugger downloaded it, these same arguments popped up (PC sales dead, hardware being expensive, etc) yet for some strange reason the only ones shouting it from the roof tops are those who want PC-centric developers to jump ship to their designated console.Lost Fragment said:
Anyway I don't usually do this silly type of thing but what they hey.
The most glaring ignorant fact in your post. Kosma's $399 PC thread challenge proves you wrong and the mere fact that less than a week ago I bought 1gb of RAM and a new graphics card (I still used my old one that I bought with the PC 3-4 years ago) for 1/4 the price of a PS3/360 makes your statement appear silly. Have you ever bothered to research up the facts rather than let someones fake mouthpiece run your mind?Lost Fragment said:
Let me know when the next biggest title in the PC.. nay.. entire gaming industry hits consoles and isn't gimped by controls i.e. StarCraft II. Not saying it isn't possible, heck I prefer it when consoles get ports because it gives PC gamers a choice and it allows other people a chance to play it. But I can't think of any reason why anyone would want to play SCII with a controller when it's so much easier the default way.Lost Fragment said:
Yeah it means I'm not getting fucked around by high pings anymore when I want to play Battlefield 1942.Lost Fragment said:
And once they get too big they get shut down unless you're living under a web of protection like TPB. This isn't more of a counter-argument in the sense that I am agreeing with you because anyone who thinks piracy is not on PCs is stupid (as with consoles and handhelds), but it's those who state that piracy is killing the industry is what is fucking dumb. Just remember that IRC thrives and lives on warez and that's been around (and survived) longer than the whole Napster campaign.Lost Fragment said:
Lost Fragment said:
PC gaming was 30% of video game revenue in the USA last year. It's growing in revenue worldwide. It's lowering it's costs because digital distribution taking off in a big way. And you know what that means? MONEY, the only thing publishers care about. Is piracy inhibiting growth? I'd say probably, but the industry as a whole is very healthy in spite of it; and the digital distribution future is looking brighter than ever.
Lost Fragment
Obsessed with 4chan
I'll give you that. Saying that PC gaming will continue to decline and we can't stop it might've been a a gross, silly exaggeration.
However...
Yeah, but how often do you have to upgrade? Typically, how long does a console's life cycle last? I know gamers who don't even know how to install a stick of RAM; how many others do you think are the same? How often do console games have conflicts with software? How many people aren't as technologically inclined as you are, and thus, don't know how to get a great deal? Why not just buy a console and be done with it?
Yeah, RTS games are still best-played on PCs, but that's not saying much. PC gaming isn't/won't be sustained just because of RTS games.
Also, FPSs were too at one point.
It also means that games download faster and uniteruppted.
Now that even my 9-year-old cousin knows where to pirate stuff, it's never going to leave the mainstream. One gets shut down, and another one will take its place. Piracy is no longer exclusive to uber-geeks in IRC channels.
What is this 6 month upgrade cycle bullshit I keep reading? Maybe if you want to be on the cutting edge, day one releases, sure it's going to cost you heaps.
FPS' on consoles are still a joke.
Some people seem to forget, the PC is going to be around for a long time, in one form or another. It keeps evolving. It's not going to be superseded in 3 years time like the current consoles.
Lost Fragment said:
FPS' on consoles are still a joke.
Some people seem to forget, the PC is going to be around for a long time, in one form or another. It keeps evolving. It's not going to be superseded in 3 years time like the current consoles.
I can understand why people seem to think like this because they aren't experienced in it at all. So was I until I eventually bit the bullet, opened up the PC and tinkered with it. There are online guides to show you what to do and it's not rocket science. I still don't know what cables should be connected and what because I'm not accustomed to them - I only know the bog standard graphics card, RAM and HDD stuff. I just know it's going to be hell when I have to replace my CPU.Lost Fragment said:
But ultimately you don't have to upgrade much often granted you grab the right stuff to begin with. Just because a game might have to run on medium settings doesn't detract the gameplay itself.. The old card I had was a GeForce 6600 GT which isn't that great, and wasn't the best when I bought the PC, but it allowed me to play most games. The card I have now will make Crysis stutter if I set everything at a high setting, but it runs CoD4 with all the bells and whistles and doesn't stutter - effectively making it a worthwhile purchase that will last for a few more years.
I do have consoles, I just don't play them all that often and I can understand why people prefer the "slot in CD/cart, turn on, play away" appeal to it but at the same time I can understand why there are some people out there who play PC games exclusively because it gives them more sense of freedom. Mods are one of the biggest advantages towards PC gaming and most FPS (as well as the juggernaut WoW) thrive on them.
SapientWolf
Trucker Sexologist
I agree. The real harm of piracy comes from the decrease in the customer's perceived value of software. You simply cannot compete with free. Ironically, the lack of PC game rentals, used market and the no returns policy (due to piracy concerns) probably have an even greater negative effect.sp0rsk said:
So what should PC devs do? If developers want to reduce the losses from piracy they need to court gamers on both sides of the Jolly Roger flag:
Treat filthy pirates like potential customers- Devs can leak early builds to generate hype. Or release versions of the game that function without a cd key, but with some features removed. Or, like Battlefield Heroes, release the game for free and make money off micropayments. Or use a subscription model. Or use attach game stats and saves to a centralized server that requires a cd key. Or any of the ideas from the article Free! Why $0.00 Is the Future of Business.
Don't treat potential customers like filthy pirates- DRM and CD checks on the game should be gone in a month (like THQ does for many of their PC titles). People who buy used should get the benefit of the doubt when it comes to cd key problems. PC games should include more than just a disc and a slip of paper. Whatever happened to gorgeous color manuals and keyboard layout guides? How about more pre-order gear? Or a gift for registering your game? Yes, I know, pirating is evil and wrong and buying the game should be its own reward, but how about giving customers a tangible reminder of their moral superiority?
PC gaming isn't dead, but I don't know why ppl are trying to make it not seem that bad. Piracy is killing the PC game market, just like its killing the CD market. for osme reason DVDs sell fine even with DVD piracy prolly being 2nd to CDs.
look no further than cod4,what did ti sell on the PC? 500k? and look what its doin on consoles,where piracy i sbad but not nearly as bad as the PC.
look no further than cod4,what did ti sell on the PC? 500k? and look what its doin on consoles,where piracy i sbad but not nearly as bad as the PC.
Hasn't the Witcher already broke a million?Pimpbaa said:I BOUGHT Hellgate:London, and I love it. Anyways, the people who are downloading The Witcher deserve to be dragged out into the street and shot. The game needs sales you assholes! Downloading that game ensures the demise of single player RPGs on PC
It can't kill the PS3. It is the most uncrackable system even if you could run linux on it. It will probably take dozens of years for crackers to break it and by then the next PS will be out.Burger said:
360 and Wii are already moddable and there's pretty rampant piracy of them.
SexConker said:
I'm sorry, but pirating old and hard to find games is imo a valid reason to pirate. Personally I wouldn't mind if all games 15 years or older would be legal to download. I know as a consequence some companies couldn't make money repackaging old games, but there's this wealth of games that very soon is going to be lost forever.
The truth about pirating is it's, very conveniant and it's free. Pretty much an impossible to beat combination. Companies are just gonna have to learn how to deal with it.
ZombieSupaStar
Member
Teknopathetic said:
can we get 1 official pc is doomed thread?
im tired of a new one everyday because some butthurt people cant afford nice things. :lol
Depends on your own preference really. For me personally it's somewhere between 4 and 5 years. I feel that upgrading more often is a waste of money given the games I enjoy the most. I'd rather take a hit in the graphics of the one or two shooters I'll play on the machine in the last year or so I own it in it's original state.Lost Fragment said:
Are we in the year 2000? Wtf? Gtfo here with that bullshit.ch0mp said:
No, they're not a joke, in fact millions of people enjoy them.
Do we really need a thread like this every other day? As has been pointed out, console numbers at popular trackers are equally "impressive".
And each and every "point" endlessly regurgitated by the "PC gaming is doomed!!!" crowd has been debunked by logical arguments and real information how many times now? I sometimes feel that Draft must be right: some here fear the PC. It's the only explanation for their complete irrationality. Well that, or they're just bitter because they're incapable of playing all the great games released for the platform.
And each and every "point" endlessly regurgitated by the "PC gaming is doomed!!!" crowd has been debunked by logical arguments and real information how many times now? I sometimes feel that Draft must be right: some here fear the PC. It's the only explanation for their complete irrationality. Well that, or they're just bitter because they're incapable of playing all the great games released for the platform.