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Pctx presents: Libya. The official thread of who knew what, when and why it happened

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To point 1, come on. We've seen threads about... like... whether a game trailer is using the right kind of anti-aliasing go back and forth for dozens of pages (this is not a literal example, just making a point). I've even been stunned how long abortion threads can go on and on, back and forth, thinking at some point it just has to end with "Duffy's right!" at some point. But it never does. So to say the topic has been exhausted strikes me as very incorrect.

To paragraph 2, yeah, you have a point. That "all of the above" thing made me furrow my brow. I would have said modified versions of B and C. I think the administration was very slow to act, and in this one instance seriously incompetent, and in the panic of election season tried to claim it was a spontaneous demonstration in reaction to a video, so as to not look as bad. But I wouldn't claim that he or anyone of the administration didn't care about the American lives lost.

I do think it's a bigger deal than most people see to. If I were on the fence, it could certainly change my mind of who to vote for.

Hm, is Duffyside being outright incorrect right now?
I thought it was confirmed that there was a spontaneous mob involved, in addition to a possible intentional terrorist attack, which is why response was so conservative.

You can't exactly go and shoot up civilians in a hot-zone, and that's why it took some time to sort rumours from facts.
 
Hm, is Duffyside being outright incorrect right now?
I thought it was confirmed that there was a spontaneous mob involved, in addition to a possible intentional terrorist attack, which is why response was so conservative.

You can't exactly go and shoot up civilians in a hot-zone, and that's why it took some time to sort rumours from facts.
And the fact that there were quite a few protests goin on over that video. There were a few attempted attacks/protests on American schools, on an us embassy, and a embassy thought to be American.

This is a whole lotta fuss over irrelevant and inconsequential semantics that the right wing is trying to scream at the top of their lungs because they sense their guy could lose. Nobody was trying to deceive anybody.

Really annoying.
 

Dash27

Member
They put out what they had because in today's 24/7 media, if you don't have an answer right away, it hurts you more than giving what you have. Also, "they" didn't arrest the guy. Local cops did because he violated his probation by making videos.

Yes amazing coincidence they picked this guy up for probation right after this happened. Cant have people making fun of religion in a video

220px-Religulous_poster.jpg


That's just wrong.


As for the CIA comments:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/26/w...of-monitoring-situation-in-benghazi.html?_r=0

WASHINGTON — Defense Secretary Leon E. Panetta said Thursday that he and top military commanders “felt very strongly” that deploying American forces to defend against the fatal attack last month on the United States diplomatic compound in Benghazi, Libya, was too risky because they did not have a clear picture of what was happening on the ground.

CIA Spokesperson:

"No one at any level in the CIA told anybody not to help those in need; claims to the contrary are simply inaccurate. ”

So the CIA didnt tell anyone not to help. Panetta says he and "top military commanders" felt they shouldnt go without having a clear picture... which of course they did have a drone overhead and real time contact with people there. So you be the judge.
 
So the CIA didnt tell anyone not to help. Panetta says he and "top military commanders" felt they shouldnt go without having a clear picture... which of course they did have a drone overhead and real time contact with people there. So you be the judge.

I might be misunderstanding your point but an intelligence analysis is not streamed live to "the deciders." That is not how it works. "Eyes on the ground" is not a "clear picture of what is going on."

These issues are related, but not the same, throughout the Greater Maghreb, the Sahal, the Horn of Africa, and through South Asia. If you think that these agencies could be less careful with what they say and do, you lack both historical knowledge and the proper cultural geographic contexts. These topics are well beyond the scope of an internet forum.

This thread upsets me, at least the OP's perspective. Ambassador Stevens and his security detail knew better than anyone what risks they faced. The outrage from the Libyans over this will hopefuly make these sacrifices a strong foundation to build better relations upon. Anyone, on any "side," that wants to get in the way of building these cultural bridges is an asshole.

The rabble-rousers that are jumping at this seem the same people that hate; Nancy Pelosi, Susan Rice, Susan Powers, and Hilary Clinton (oh, and the President). I'm sorry but there is a segment of the GOP that continually comes off as misogynistic and racist, and I think they are also assholes. At least the terrorists are being taken advantage of by other assholes that brainwash these people into believing destruction will bring about their goals, and they are not the brainwashers themselves (like these dirtbags in the GOP and in their media division). Call me a brown-shirt red-diaper-doper-baby, it won't change how ignorant some individuals are regarding the ability to gauge their understanding of "the way things work."
 

RDreamer

Member
anyone have a source for this?

Newest sources are saying it was "opportunistic." Meaning it wasn't something that was thought out well in advance. It was a flash mob with some local militant extremists that decided to strike after possibly seeing the protests in Cairo.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Newest sources are saying it was "opportunistic." Meaning it wasn't something that was thought out well in advance. It was a flash mob with some local militant extremists that decided to strike after possibly seeing the protests in Cairo.

Which I thought was the story since the beginning.
 

RDreamer

Member
Which I thought was the story since the beginning.

Seems like it's kind of a semantics war. The administration said "spontaneous," which is slightly correct and is in line with the information they were given. Then terrorism came into the equation and the right thinks that there isn't such a thing as spontaneous terrorism, or a spontaneous act of terror to be more exact.

Basically this thing was kind of a muddled event factually, and people want things to be black or white. So when the administration said it's a black-ish gray, and things turned out to be a slightly whiter version of that the right freaks out even though it's still somewhere in that gray range.
 

B-Dubs

No Scrubs
Seems like it's kind of a semantics war. The administration said "spontaneous," which is slightly correct and is in line with the information they were given. Then terrorism came into the equation and the right thinks that there isn't such a thing as spontaneous terrorism, or a spontaneous act of terror to be more exact.

Basically this thing was kind of a muddled event factually, and people want things to be black or white. So when the administration said it's a black-ish gray, and things turned out to be a slightly whiter version of that the right freaks out even though it's still somewhere in that gray range.

Pretty much, the way I always saw it was that some terrorists just took advantage of the protests to stage the attack. It's always confused me when people argued different. I agree with your black and white assessment, but at the same time (since only the right seems outraged by this) I think it is fair to say that most people see it the way you're describing.
 
Newest sources are saying it was "opportunistic." Meaning it wasn't something that was thought out well in advance. It was a flash mob with some local militant extremists that decided to strike after possibly seeing the protests in Cairo.



yeah thats what i thought as well
 
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