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[Gwanatu T]

DD will arrive because publishers want to prevent used sales, and want to prevent piracy. DD helps with both of those.

Bingo. While DD won't prevent piracy in any way (if it can be made it WILL be un-made, FOREVER), it does prevent used sales. It's all about control, and if the publishers and developers can work together to prevent losing any sales due to a used market, they will. I don't blame them at all either. Used games are appearing in more and more places now (heck even Walmart sells them), and it's taking a significant chunk of change from the publishers/developers. They are essentially working for nothing when a used game gets sold over a new copy.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

Fuck merchandise I can't physically own--FUCK IT!

Fully agree.

Not a fan of digital distribution.

 

[LCfiner]

I am a big fan of DD but I think the price of a DD copy of a game should be lower than the disc copy. not by half or anything. but a 60 dollar game should be 40 or 50. make up a portion of that money you could get back by selling it down the road.

it's less important for games that are already < 20 bucks but for the pricey retail games, dropping the price of the DD version is a good way to get some people to choose it instead.

but that's probably just wishful thinking.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Unless there is some way to have competition of game vendors on consoles via digital distribution, I want no part of it.

I'm all for digital distribution, but not a monopoly.

I am a big fan of DD but I think the price of a DD copy of a game should be lower than the disc copy. not by half or anything. but a 60 dollar game should be 40 or 50. make up a portion of that money you could get back by selling it down the road.

it's less important for games that are already < 20 bucks but for the pricey retail games, dropping the price of the DD version is a good way to get some people to choose it instead.

but that's probably just wishful thinking.

This is something that annoys me. Why does the digital copy cost more than the physical? This is especially annoying for movies where if you had the physical you could easily convert it to digital.

Spoiler

Well I can very much imagine why.

 

[SmokyDave]

As a PSP Go owner, I intend to stay on this burning platform until enveloped by flames. I can't see myself ever adjusting to DD in the closed-platform console space unless it comes with heavily discounted prices and an absolute guarantee that my games will always be available in the future.

 

[Shin Johnpv]

Bingo. While DD won't prevent piracy in any way (if it can be made it WILL be un-made, FOREVER), it does prevent used sales. It's all about control, and if the publishers and developers can work together to prevent losing any sales due to a used market, they will. I don't blame them at all either. Used games are appearing in more and more places now (heck even Walmart sells them), and it's taking a significant chunk of change from the publishers/developers. They are essentially working for nothing when a used game gets sold over a new copy.

Every market where you physically buy something has a second hand market. Movies, Music, Cars, Houses, Computers, TVs, Books, etc etc. Why should gaming be any different? Why shouldn't you be allowed to sell a game used that you bought? If I buy a car and sell it next year Toyota doesn't get any money from it. Developers/Publishers need to make people want to keep the games they bought instead of trying to fuck over the consumer by making it so you can't sell shit you paid for. Game prices overall need to come down and replay value needs to be raised.

 

[7Th]

As someone who has spent stupid amounts of money on "rare, out-of-print" games, I honestly think DD gaming will be for the best. Companies like Atlus would benefit plenty from it.

It isn't coming any time soon, though.

I am a big fan of DD but I think the price of a DD copy of a game should be lower than the disc copy. not by half or anything. but a 60 dollar game should be 40 or 50. make up a portion of that money you could get back by selling it down the road.

Blame retailers.

 

[Azelover]

YES.

Two words. Paradigm shift.

The problem with a forum like GAF talking about DD vs physical media is that most gaffers are completely insane when it comes to game purchases (sorry, GAF, but in your hearts you know it to be true). The Monthly Haul threads are enough to make me wretch. Most pictures in those threads each show hundreds of dollars worth of game purchases and that's on a monthly basis.

No normal human being does that. No normal human being hyperfocuses that much on displaying little boxes. No normal human being buys/sells/re-buys games or systems.

For most gaffers, gaming isn't a hobby. It's an addiction.

I'd venture the biggest reason behind DD opposition is their own awareness of that addiction. Sure, you see questions like "but what happens when I want to sell or lend a game" but in all fairness, the better question to ask is "why are you buying so many games that you'd ever need or want to sell them?"

Past few decades, I think there's been a lot of enabling going on. Developers/publishers/manufacturers have enabled gamers to buy huge amounts of games that ultimately they're not going to have time to play. And gamers have enabled developers/publishers/manufacturers to continue pushing games out at unsustainable levels to the point of market saturation and developer collapse.

That's why there needs to be a change in how things operate. Gamers need to change their buying habits. The industry needs to change their dev/publish/manufacturing habits.

Which brings me back to paradigm shift. lol

Yes, a paradigm shift is using a different perspective to solve problems.

Still, at the end of the day it will be consumers who decide. It is presumptuous to assume DD is going to be the only way to go in the future, that's certainly what some big business people would love. Which is probably why we're hearing it so much.

In such a paradigm where DD is the only way to get software, retail won't be the same just to start with. The people who like to hoard all of the money, and buy workforce for cheap are ecstatic about this possible scenario just to start with. But it doesn't mean people like it.

A pyramid is a system which depends on compliance. Even if your people are highly policed there still needs to be some remote desire to comply with a paradigm you want to establish. It's convenient for some people to download inexpensive songs to an MP3 player which they can carry around and place it wherever they want, they don't even have to carry it with them. Indirectly it gives them a sense of ownership. And even then not everybody wants to participate in it.

When you shift that to all media including more expensive movies and then games, on a set box which just sits there, the scenario is completely different. Just look at Mario Kart with the Wii Wheel, or Wii Fit with the Balance Board, or Guitar Hero with the instruments. Packaged goods have a big place in trend.

Most people like owning things, and feeling that they do own these things.

 

[Blueblur1]

Fuck merchandise I can't physically own--FUCK IT!

Well said. :lol But seriously, digital distribution is like communism. Sounds great but in practice it has it's problems and issues.

 

[Flying_Phoenix]

Every market where you physically buy something has a second hand market. Movies, Music, Cars, Houses, Computers, TVs, Books, etc etc. Why should gaming be any different? Why shouldn't you be allowed to sell a game used that you bought? If I buy a car and sell it next year Toyota doesn't get any money from it. Developers/Publishers need to make people want to keep the games they bought instead of trying to fuck over the consumer by making it so you can't sell shit you paid for. Game prices overall need to come down and replay value needs to be raised.

Exactly, it's part of free trade capitalism. I see this similar to the people who complain about not being able to use shareware to download free stuff. They're complaining about something that isn't legal and just trying to get as much benefit for themselves (whether consumer or business) as much as possible.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

As someone who has spent stupid amounts of money on "rare, out-of-print" games, I honestly think DD gaming will be for the best. Companies like Atlus would benefit plenty from it.

It isn't coming any time soon, though.

Oh, I think it would be very bad for Atlus. I think they sell a lot of copies on the "GET IT WHILE YOU CAN NOW WITH PREMIUM GOODIES FOR FIRST OWNERS" principle. Slashing out the used market (and the rental market) will also create a much more risk averse audience, and while that isn't going to hurt the Halo gents, the mid-tier quirky stuff will suffer badly.

 

[Sydle]

Digital downloads am the future. I'm all for it.

 

[Warm Machine]

Every market where you physically buy something has a second hand market. Movies, Music, Cars, Houses, Computers, TVs, Books, etc etc. Why should gaming be any different? Why shouldn't you be allowed to sell a game used that you bought? If I buy a car and sell it next year Toyota doesn't get any money from it. Developers/Publishers need to make people want to keep the games they bought instead of trying to fuck over the consumer by making it so you can't sell shit you paid for. Game prices overall need to come down and replay value needs to be raised.

Right now I'm looking at a wall of phyiscal CDs that I wish I didn't own.

Music, and Movies both are quickly not having a second hand market. We have all essentially been living with DD television broadcasts for decades.

Houses, Cars, Computers, TVs, all do not have such an incredible theft/piracy rate that pretty well justifys the need for a DD model.

If a new game was priced such that the value was minus what you would have gotten for a resale would people be so upset about this?

 

[Rollo Lawson]

Everyone who doesn't accept DD is part of a dying generation.

You're expendable. Stop wasting your energy fighting it.

this.

we see this resistance with every format shift and it never lasts. they fought cassettes, they fought cd's, they fought dvd's...and the more people resist it seems the faster it becomes standard

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

Right now I'm looking at a wall of phyiscal CDs that I wish I didn't own.

Music, and Movies both are quickly not having a second hand market. We have all essentially been living with DD television broadcasts for decades.

Houses, Cars, Computers, TVs, all do not have such an incredible theft/piracy rate that pretty well justifys the need for a DD model.

If a new game was priced such that the value was minus what you would have gotten for a resale would people be so upset about this?

Well, that depends. Here in the glorious Nippon empire, if I finish a game in a week, I can sell it back for new price less 500-1000 yen. So basically you're saying a brand new PS3 game for 500-1000 yen?

Yeah, I wouldn't complain at that price.

 

[7Th]

Oh, I think it would be very bad for Atlus. I think they sell a lot of copies on the "GET IT WHILE YOU CAN NOW WITH PREMIUM GOODIES FOR FIRST OWNERS" principle. Slashing out the used market (and the rental market) will also create a much more risk averse audience, and while that isn't going to hurt the Halo gents, the mid-tier quirky stuff will suffer badly.

You think so? Because I believe Atlus would benefit plenty because they wouldn't need to spend money on publishing and distribution yet their games would still be readily available to anyone that wants to play them.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

You think so? Because I believe Atlus would benefit plenty because they wouldn't need to spend money on publishing and distribution yet their games would still be readily available to anyone that wants to play them.

Well, it's impossible to say. I know for myself, half the time when I buy Atlus games, I do it because I'm worried the game will disappear and I *might* want it down the line. Take that fear out and I'd probably just tell myself to wait and then never buy it.

 

[7Th]

Well, it's impossible to say. I know for myself, half the time when I buy Atlus games, I do it because I'm worried the game will disappear and I *might* want it down the line. Take that fear out and I'd probably just tell myself to wait and then never buy it.

I don't know, but I think at least the potential audience would benefit from not having to buy the game for 90 bucks if they happen to discover it 2 years after its release. 90 bucks that will never meet Atlus' hands, at that.

I honestly believe quirky, weird games would be the ones to benefit the most from a DD system.

 

[jorma]

If a new game was priced such that the value was minus what you would have gotten for a resale would people be so upset about this?

Lets start with DD pricing where the cost of retail distribution is actually slashed from the price.

 

[7Th]

The problem with DD pricing is pressure from the retailers. If it wasn't for that, we would be seeing DD games at much cheaper prices.

 

[birdchili]

lets see how the console platforms handle the migration to the next generation.

aside from the general awesomeness of not having to leave the house to buy the game, and not having to change disks, dd seems like a pricey rental plan so far.

if someone sets something up so that i can play my 20 year old dd games with confidence then it becomes a lot more compelling. there's way too much uncertainty now, and far too many reasons to suspect that the consumer is going to get screwed here.

 

[Segata Sanshiro]

I don't know, but I think at least the potential audience would benefit from not having to buy the game for 90 bucks if they happen to discover it 2 years after its release. 90 bucks that will never meet Atlus' hands, at that.

I honestly believe quirky, weird games would be the ones to benefit the most from a DD system.

I think Atlus is pretty sly about their out of print games, actually. This summer they sold a bunch of copies of SMT3, DDS1, and DDS2 through Amazon. They do that fairly often, actually.

I think their niche will be there for them wherever they go, but Persona has a chance to break beyond that niche, if people give it a chance. Unfortunately, I think time will show that people are less likely to take a chance on a product they can't rent, sell, or even properly try out before laying down the bucks.

Cheap, quirky games will benefit, but I'm not sure Atlus wants to go selling Persona or SMT games for $15 brand new.

 

[Scrow]

Fuck merchandise I can't physically own--FUCK IT!

i used to have this opinion too. i didn't like that i "owned" something i couldn't actually pick up and touch.

then i realised that all the money i have in the bank is no more "real" than digitally bought games. all the money i own is nothing more than a digital figure in a bank's database.

we live in a world where "worth" is a concept and can be represented digitally.

 

[dfyb]

"Moore also said he believes Microsoft will be the first of the three major hardware manufacturers to release an entirely digital-based gaming console, but that movement is still years away."

mhmm. mhmm.

 

[KittyKittyBangBang]

I dont understand peoples need for tangible media. Im just the opposite. Given the choice, I would by every single game possible on Steam/XBL/PSN. Im the opposite of a collector, I own 4-5 physical games at any one time and I get rid of them ASAP when Im done. I have 100+ games on Steam. I've had Gears 2 for over 6 months now and hate it every time I see that stupid case art in my entertainment center.

Why do I want a drawer full of games that I have to sift thru every time I want to play a particular game, When I can have everything instantly accessible on a HDD. Why drive dow to a store to pick it up, get hassled to pre-order something, then drive home, just to install the thing anyways?

We have also seen what the pricing model COULD look like with DD, especailly with Direct2Drives $5 game sale a few weeks back. have you ever seen Bioshock, Assassins Creed, Saints Row 2, Company of Heroes Gold, MLB 2K9, etc for $5 in retail? Steam has 25% to 50% off sales every freaking week.

DD-only business model cant get here soon enough IMO

 

[Azelover]

this.

we see this resistance with every format shift and it never lasts. they fought cassettes, they fought cd's, they fought dvd's...and the more people resist it seems the faster it becomes standard

So basically: resistance is futile.

By the way, I don't think it was ever quite the same to begin with. This isn't simply a technology change, believe me it would be a lot easier if it were just that. It's not.

 

[birdchili]

Why do I want a drawer full of games that I have to sift thru every time I want to play a particular game, When I can have everything instantly accessible on a HDD. Why drive dow to a store to pick it up, get hassled to pre-order something, then drive home, just to install the thing anyways?

because the dd stuff is drm'd out the wazoo, consoles aren't bc anymore, and no platform holder has promised an upgrade path yet?

i also hate having to be online to play games - sometimes it isn't practical.

for every dd convenience, there's an inconvenience. it's particularly bad if you're interested in old games.

 

[Deleted member 1235]

I will never buy a console that is downloads only.

and in this manner you will become a grumpy old man that says things like 'in my day'

of course it's going to happen. it's already happened, the world just has to catch up. Blue ray is soo never going to make it as far as dvd did.

 

[SmokyDave]

this.

we see this resistance with every format shift and it never lasts. they fought cassettes, they fought cd's, they fought dvd's...and the more people resist it seems the faster it becomes standard

This isn't really a format shift, it's a distribution shift. You could lend / re-sell Cassettes, CDs & DVDs. You could trade your cassettes toward replacement CDs. This is totally different and to my mind is going to become something of a nightmare for consumer rights.

 

[Shig]

This from a man who works for the company that won't throw a little DLC support behind the most successful DD title they've ever made (BF1943), letting its community get bored and fade away while the devs focus instead on a disc-based sequel to a game that didn't really do too well (BF:BC2).

 

[Digital-Hero]

Peter Moore had some interesting comments about the disc based gaming business model that he gave at a conference panel about digital delivery.


Source: http://uk.games.ign.com/articles/103/1036254p1.html

That is fine. Kill the physical media.

 

[Red]

Can't wait for the DD future.

 

[lucablight]

How are people going to download 40-50gb dual layer blu ray games?

 

[LutherT17]

If my burning platform is a sinking ship, won't the water eventually put out the fire? And if its sinking over a ten year period, isn't it more of a leaky ship? Was this metaphor created just to give more weight to the piracy image? Does Peter Moore think he's Orlando Bloom?

 

[Kai Dracon]

This isn't really a format shift, it's a distribution shift. You could lend / re-sell Cassettes, CDs & DVDs. You could trade your cassettes toward replacement CDs. This is totally different and to my mind is going to become something of a nightmare for consumer rights.

Exactly. People who focus on the shiny march of technology because that's so cool do not grasp this is NOT ABOUT SCIENCE. It's about economics, something a lot of people don't care about and disregard.

Digital Distribution, in the current mentality of the game industry, is not what the average game buyer who goes to Gamestop wants. The post upthread that said people who buy/sell/re-sell games are not "normal" is dead wrong. They are not GAF; not the pointed tip of the hardcore - Gamestop couldn't exist and operate as they do if only the 5% of the elite hardcore gamers were trading physical products.

Everyone trades and sells and buys used to save some scratch. It's simply good consumer habits - it is, ironically, the elite hardcore gamers who are super prissy about only buying new physical products and get furious when they suspect a Gamestop employee has opened a "new" game to play it in the store.

The average person still wants to have value in the products they buy after they buy them, to be able to trade and sell them freely and get some of that value back to go towards new purchases. The game industry as it is now just wants all the money forever, and the hell with the customer; they really wish the customer didn't exist. He is annoying because he wants to be treated fairly and has a ludicrous belief that the company is supposed to be serving him; instead of the other way around. They would much prefer to deal with safe, faceless demographics that do what the game industry orders them to do.

Eventually, digital distribution will be standard for all game releases, yes. That is the future as technology enables it and makes it easier and easier to achieve. But that doesn't automatically rule out physical copies, especially if those copies are related to economics as the customer sees it. Especially if the game industry keeps trying to treat customers as idiots and making disposable games that don't last, and are only worth a single play then a trade-in.

 

[KevinCow]

Woo! Can't wait! Come on everyone, let's celebrate giving up our consumer rights!

 

[gamergirly]

Oh, I think it would be very bad for Atlus. I think they sell a lot of copies on the "GET IT WHILE YOU CAN NOW WITH PREMIUM GOODIES FOR FIRST OWNERS" principle. Slashing out the used market (and the rental market) will also create a much more risk averse audience, and while that isn't going to hurt the Halo gents, the mid-tier quirky stuff will suffer badly.

Well essentially it would be similar to what we have now. You'd actually DL the entire game but the "unlockable key" or security code would be like $40. Another problem is that Microtransactions will either become an afterthought(since you're saving loads on manufacturing costs just include the entire source) or contain too much of the game on a pay-for-feature bassis.

 

[-PXG-]

I will never buy a DD only Console

I will quit gaming when I can no longer get my games on physical media.


I have purchased two games on XBLA in total, MTG and Puzzle quest. XBLA is fine with me as I understand it's purpose and value. But that in no way makes me any more open to getting real A list titles digitally.


I laugh at the people buying games through DD right now on xbox, paying more then the boxed version for frequently inferior copies that don't have the DLC's included like the platnium or GOTY versions of the games their downloading. Mass Effect and Oblivion for instance.


I am a patient man and I always wait a year or so after a games release to see if a special edition will be released with all the DLC content bundeled so I can get it physically. I just bought Fallout GOTY and I'm loving it.

Same.

I've bought A LOT of XBLA and PSN games. But I don't care. 10, 15 bucks is chump change. I don't mind being "stuck" with those. It's not as if I could sell them for decent amount of money, anyway, if they were on a physical format.

But $50-$60 games are another thing. I want to be able to hold the damn thing, and when I'm done, have the chance of trading/selling/lending it.

 

[DaPHanTomMeNace]

He's absolutely right. 10 years from now consoles will be as big as blackberrys with wireless interconnectivity with each other and control pads, along with tv's and projectors. Consoles will probably have handheld gaming capabilities too. I can't wait for DD it'll solve my spending habits :lol

 

[goomba]

I bet Nintendo will be the last to drop physical media completly, if ever.

 

[Bitmap Frogs]

They'll take my bargain bin from my cold, dead hands.

So far I haven't pirated games but if the bargain bin goes away.... it'll be either I stop buying many games or, well, look for alternatives. I don't pay full price for all my games and I wouldn't like to be forced to do that.

Then there's the whole retrogaming issue.

Huge can of worms, but it looks like we are headed towards it.

 

[-PXG-]

Also, the "if done right" statement is horseshit. None of these companies will "do it right". They don't give a fuck about us. I don't trust any of them for one second.

Well essentially it would be similar to what we have now. You'd actually DL the entire game but the "unlockable key" or security code would be like $40. Another problem is that Microtransactions will either become an afterthought(since you're saving loads on manufacturing costs just include the entire source) or contain too much of the game on a pay-for-feature bassis.

Yeah. That is some scary shit. Again, I have very little faith that anyone will "do it right".

 

[Firewire]

I'm all for DD when it comes to small arcade type games or even larger online only games, But I would never buy a full title this way, I prefer a disc thank you very much and I wouldn't want to waste hours downloading a regular sized game either.

 

[soul creator]

2. Multiple choice: Sure iTunes is by far the most popular online store for music but its not the only one. If i want to buy an album I have a choice whether it is from iTunes, Amazon, Zune Marketplace or some other store. And with music stores moving towards a no DRM future, it doesn't matter where I buy it from, it will work on my particular device. Now, lets say we live in the future, do you really see Nintendo, Sony or Microsoft allowing rival DD stores? No, if you want a game on the Wii HD, the PS4 or the Xbox 720 you will only have one choice, and if history shows anything, that inevitably leads to the consumer being screwed.

3. No conflicting interest: Probably relates to the last point but I'll say it anyway. Apple may make iPods but they don't make the music that goes on it. Nintendo, Sony and Microsoft do make video games that go on their consoles. With them also now being in charge of sole distribution of games on their platform can they really be trusted to work with the customers best interest at heart?

which is why the OC(format)F must happen first before 100% DD on consoles becomes feasible

 

[V_Arnold]

They'll take my bargain bin from my cold, dead hands.

So far I haven't pirated games but if the bargain bin goes away.... it'll be either I stop buying many games or, well, look for alternatives. I don't pay full price for all my games and I wouldn't like to be forced to do that.

Then there's the whole retrogaming issue.

Huge can of worms, but it looks like we are headed towards it.

Uhm....look for alternatives?
How about you vote with your wallet?

Going the "I hate them, or I do not have the money, but I like the product, so I'm just gonna steal it - and it is THEIR fault" route is quite sad and funny in the same time.

I truly wish for a pirateproof DD system in the near future, after the "we have to keep the prices high or else we'll upset retailers" dust has settled down. And I so gonna enjoy the fact that there wont be any ugly symbiotes leeching away all that hard work which people have put into creating these products. Pirate-proof they will be as hell, if someone thinks it wont be, it is simply a l2math issue.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Hasn't this generation been the most supportive of keeping old games alive, due to DD? I mean, look at the Virtual Console.

I don't see how that's a valid concern. Publishers will love the idea of you paying $10 for a game you missed 5 years a ago a decade from now. That's only possible with DD or disc-based compilations, otherwise the game will be pirated or bought used.

 

[Plinko]

I bet Nintendo will be the last to drop physical media completly, if ever.

Came back to post the exact same thing.

What people are overlooking is the idea that one company does NOT adopt DD-only (which I agree will probably be Nintendo). Imagine the amount of floorspace and advertisement given specifically to that brand in EVERY retail store. That's a HUGE advantage. Never underestimate the power of the impulse buy.

 

[Kagami]

I'll say the same thing I always say on this topic.
I have no problem buying bits over the internet.
I have big problems with DRM and IP address restrictions & credit card country-of-issue restrictions.

 

[whitehawk]

Fuck loading a new disc every time I want to play a new game--FUCK IT!

Fuck boxes and cases that take up my physical space and that I really don't even want at all--FUCK IT!

PLOK!!!

 

[Str0ngStyle]

OH please, XBLA has already conditioned a lot of gamers to expect quite a bit for $10-15. Apple Store is also bringing prices down. People are expecting more for their money.

IF anything, its retail that is providing less and less for the dollar.

You make a good point however this argument still boils down to one thing. Expecting these sumbitches to do the right thing when they don't have to for whatever reason. Sure games should be cheaper with no disc, manual, shipping,retail margin, ect, ect. But will they pass same savings onto the consumer?

God willing they will, but I doubt it