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Pewdiepie's response video

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P

Pitrise

Banned
Beefy said:
Yep. GG are scum and treat women etc like crap. H3H3 could hate all of Trons views but then why still talk to a guy who you hate? If i had a "friend" who's views are to abuse women or to me associated with a group that does, they wouldn't be a friend.
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I disagree with a lot of this viewpoint. Hating someone's view and hating an individual are very different things that don't implicitly lead into each other. Straw-manning every individual of a group as women abusers is also an incredibly simplistic view (which we are all guilty of, it's very easy to generalize opposition as some negative term, but it's not reality). I don't know what's in Jontron's head or heart but I'm sure abusing women is not something he has ever done or condones.

There are so many nuances to so many of these situations and people are pretending it's insane to consider the nuances.

The demonizing of everyone with an opposing viewpoint really needs to be reconsidered. I saw a post when this all started with someone saying "Is Markiplier the last good YouTuber?". And now he just made a video which is asking people to respect PewDiePie. All of the huge YouTubers who are coming out in support of Felix could have easily taken the opposite position in order to get more support from advertisers but they aren't.

This thread really makes me feel like moderates are endangered on Neogaf which makes me a little sad.
 
S

Sande

Member
VibratingDonkey said:
When I first saw the WSJ video I thought the first half seemed to not give a complete picture. But when this at worst results in Pewdiepie being interpreted by viewers as intentionally bolstering hateful views out of malice, when he was actually doing it unintentionally out of ignorance and inconsideration, there's only so much I can care about this injustice.
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That's the thing though. The person in question should not matter. They could be making a video of Breivik and still would not have any right to skew and mislead.
 
N

Nanashrew

Banned
staticneuron said:
I have heard. Didn't follow them. What I have seen sounds insane. But again none of my friends ever put that level of insanity up for me to see. So I don't "think" I have any GG friends. We wouldn't be if I see some crazy threats or stalker stuff.

But I think the point of the earlier poster is that it is possible to be friends with someone that you have different political views from. Or even family members that you have disagreements with politically. But if it is not the tie that binds then it is a leap to judge by association.

Case in point. In high school I had a friend whose cousins were apart of the KKK. As a black man of course, never went over his house for thanksgiving dinner but I knew at least he wasn't racist. Obviously didn't apply to whole family but it taught me about exclusion. What he was taught was challenged by the sheer fact that he knew black, hispanic and jewish people that did NOT fit what some of his family members were telling him. If exposure helps dismantle this crap, I suggest more people actually talk to some of people who puts out this "hate" and ensure that it is not because of lack of exposure. People that hate like it is some sort of religion or symbolic to their identity you may not be able to sway though.
Click to expand...

Believe me, I've tried. I was around since GamerGate first started and no amount of reasoning with them or trying to discuss things with them has done anything. They truly believe that games media, mainstream media, and the industry is out to get them and have sided with the likes of real nazis, white supremacists, alt-righters. They even sided with Jack Thompson, the man who legitimately tried to censor games at a government level and GG was saying people like Anita Sarkeesian was worse and the real threat. It's only because Jack Thompson came out against her and the things going on they sided with him.

They're still a thing that's going on and Sargon and the like continue to spread that kind of paranoia about the media and the industry.
 
B

Beefy

Member
Pitrise said:
I disagree with a lot of this viewpoint. Hating someone's view and hating an individual are very different things that don't implicitly lead into each other. Straw-manning every individual of a group as women abusers is also an incredibly simplistic view (which we are all guilty of, it's very easy to generalize opposition as some negative term, but it's not reality). I don't know what's in Jontron's head or heart but I'm sure abusing women is not something he has ever done or condones.

There are so many nuances to so many of these situations and people are pretending it's insane to consider the nuances.

The demonizing of everyone with an opposing viewpoint really needs to be reconsidered. I saw a post when this all started with someone saying "Is Markiplier the last good YouTuber?". And now he just made a video which is asking people to respect PewDiePie. All of the huge YouTubers who are coming out in support of Felix could have easily taken the opposite position in order to get more support from advertisers but they aren't.

This thread really makes me feel like moderates are endangered on Neogaf which makes me a little sad.
Click to expand...

GG is a hate group simple as that. I have nothing against markiplier and thought his video was good.
 
S

Silver Arrows

Banned
Pitrise said:
I disagree with a lot of this viewpoint. Hating someone's view and hating an individual are very different things that don't implicitly lead into each other. Straw-manning every individual of a group as women abusers is also an incredibly simplistic view (which we are all guilty of, it's very easy to generalize opposition as some negative term, but it's not reality). I don't know what's in Jontron's head or heart but I'm sure abusing women is not something he has ever done or condones.

There are so many nuances to so many of these situations and people are pretending it's insane to consider the nuances.

The demonizing of everyone with an opposing viewpoint really needs to be reconsidered. I saw a post when this all started with someone saying "Is Markiplier the last good YouTuber?". And now he just made a video which is asking people to respect PewDiePie. All of the huge YouTubers who are coming out in support of Felix could have easily taken the opposite position in order to get more support from advertisers but they aren't.

This thread really makes me feel like moderates are endangered on Neogaf which makes me a little sad.
Click to expand...

Or it could be that people are not willing to let racist, transphobic, misogyniatic and antisemetic shit by.
 
P

Pitrise

Banned
Beefy said:
GG is a hate group simple as that.
Click to expand...

This isn't a very thoughtful reply. I don't think labeling something a hate group invalidates any of what I said.

Silver Arrows said:
Or it could be that people are not willing to let racist, transphobic, misogyniatic and antisemetic shit by.
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The more you throw around words like "misogyniatic" the less people take it seriously when someone is ACTUALLY being misogynistic. Without knowing what's in someone's head or heart we should be careful when throwing around words like that. Unless we have undeniable reason reason to believe Jontron is any of those things I believe good people can be friends with him.
 
N

Nanashrew

Banned
Pitrise said:
This isn't a very thoughtful reply. I don't think labeling something a hate group invalidates any of what I said.
Click to expand...

People legitimately tried to reach across the aisle to understand their issues and offer our own thoughts on the subject and why their actions were hurting people. They didn't listen, they turned it around to make you look like the real harasser, the real racist. They double downed on on hatred.

GamerGate was even kicked off of 4chan because Moot and everyone didn't want them there they were that bad.
 
B

Beefy

Member
Pitrise said:
This isn't a very thoughtful reply. I don't think labeling something a hate group invalidates any of what I said.
Click to expand...

Well it is look at what you just posted you are saying people that belong to a group that openly harasses people may not be bad people? Umm how does that make sense? Every one connected to GG is either total scum or is ok to be associated with total scum. So you are either ok harassing people or ok with being in a group that harass people. Both are equally as bad.

Also your posts about JonTron are laughable, he called the womens march sexist and kept moaning about it. There are many tweets of him sharing his disgusting views, just go look it up.
 
M

Marquis

Banned
What is it with this idea of reaching out to the other side? The other side that takes Nazis, racism, and misogyny as a joke?
 
A

APF

Member
Pitrise said:
The more you throw around words like "misogyniatic" the less people take it seriously when someone is ACTUALLY being misogynistic.
Click to expand...
Couldn't I say the same thing whenever you encounter this person you think is "ACTUALLY" misogynistic? As flawed beings maybe we should never try to interpret the world around us.
 
D

dogpowerd

Banned
dragonfart28 said:
This alt right shit is fucking cult virus.
Click to expand...

It really is! The older I get the more I start to think the internet was a mistake. I miss the old days when I could just consume the media I liked without having to hear idiot stream of consciousness rants from every deranged shut in on the planet.
 
B

Beefy

Member
Marquis said:
What is it with this idea of reaching out to the other side? The other side that takes Nazis, racism, and misogyny as a joke?
Click to expand...

Don't know man. I guess me as a black bi guy, I must reach out to people who treat me like I am not a human being.
 
N

Nanashrew

Banned
Marquis said:
What is it with this idea of reaching out to the other side? The other side that takes Nazis, racism, and misogyny as a joke?
Click to expand...

In GG's case, people only tried to reach out very early on before the movement had become a full blown hate movement. They had already solidified their goals and anger to the medium and lashed out. No amount of reasoning was possible even though some thought they could.

It was also learned much later that some people who had sent out death threats to previous industry woman, Jennifer Hepler and her family were also among GG. And diving deeper, a good portion of them had committed acts like these they were now just under a singular banner called GamerGate.

In the end there there's no way to actually talk to them without being shut out, insulted and harassed unless you're actually in agreement with them.
 
F

Family Fry

Member
Spiral Insanity said:
I know he is, but the tweet I was responding to was about Ethan from H3h3. Where am I talking about Tron? Can't stand him for what he believes.

Now don't all start saying Boogie is a gamergater or a nazi..
Click to expand...

I remember a while back I mentioned he wasn't doing himself any favours retweeting a dayum drops five guys video, back when GG was emerging.

He went straight onto twitter and said he just got accused of being a misogonyst and he couldn't catch a break. Pretty much told me all I need to know about boogie, especially when I never once mentioned misogyny.

I lost a lot of respect for the guy when he came onto GAF.
 
staticneuron

staticneuron

Member
Nanashrew said:
Believe me, I've tried. I was around since GamerGate first started and no amount of reasoning with them or trying to discuss things with them has done anything. They truly believe that games media, mainstream media, and the industry is out to get them and have sided with the likes of real nazis, white supremacists, alt-righters. They even sided with Jack Thompson, the man who legitimately tried to censor games at a government level and GG was saying people like Anita Sarkeesian was worse and the real threat. It's only because Jack Thompson came out against her and the things going on they sided with him.

They're still a thing that's going on and Sargon and the like continue to spread that kind of paranoia about the media and the industry.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a hate group to me. There is one thing about changing discourse but man, aligning to not one but all of those groups is pretty telling.

Marquis said:
What is it with this idea of reaching out to the other side? The other side that takes Nazis, racism, and misogyny as a joke?
Click to expand...

Beefy said:
Don't know man. I guess me as a black bi guy, I must reach out to people who treat me like I am not a human being.
Click to expand...

I don't think you need to reach out to hate groups. They are groups defined by hate. But, it is important to realize that there may be people exposed to this without any counter that are not drinking the kool aid. That is why it is not a good idea to label someone by association or without really knowing where they stand.
 
A

Alucrid

Banned
Sande said:
Oh look, an actual response. Welcome to the discussion.

The misogyny and n-words were almost exclusively in the past as far was I know. And even that was jokingly like "get back in the kitchen lol". Not great but it is what it is. I watch some of his videos and see almost none of that anymore.

I condemned his recent behaviour earlier in the thread. It's very rarely funny when he gets this edgy and most definitely won't lead to anything good. He seemed to get that based on his response, and unlike some of you have claimed, he clearly does learn. Just... very slowly and one thing at a time, apparently.

Edit: I gotta add, this was a bad response by Felix. He's usually really level-headed and agreeable when he does one of these "okay let's be real for a moment" videos. WSJ must have really got to him.
Click to expand...

Sande said:
I do understand. He absolutely deserves to be called out when he does these things. And he absolutely should know better. People keep posting these things like he does them all the time though. Most of the awful shit was years ago. I started watching his videos occasionally a couple of years ago and there's been pretty much none of that in the videos I've watched. I found out about the things he said after the fact when I was linked to clips from like 2013.

That said, that kind of shit seems to be making a comeback on his channel. He just doesn't seem to have anything to say now that he's moved away from video games so he just says edgy unfiltered bullshit a lot of the time.


You mean the 8th most handsome person (or something like that) video? I don't know what that was about. Might sound crazy but that was very uncharacteristic of him, based on his other videos.
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so is it exclusively in the past or not considering he said it in a recent video? if it's uncharacteristic of him why does he have a past of saying it in the first place?
 
N

Nanashrew

Banned
I just do not like the idea of so many YTers becoming friends with Sargon. He, Milo and others hurt so many of my friends and cool industry people I followed.
 
W

woxel1

Member
906187.jpg
 
M

ModestMouseTrap

Banned
Nanashrew said:
I just do not like the idea of so many YTers becoming friends with Sargon. He, Milo and others hurt so many of my friends and cool industry people I followed.
Click to expand...

Yeah Sargon and Milo are real pieces of work. I really hope this isn't going to become some regular association. But I hate to say it, when people feel attacked they tend to gravitate towards people that make them feel welcome even if they are toxic.
 
R

R00bot

Member
This thread has regressed to
"Pewdiepie isn't actually racist it was a joke"
"Fuck pewdiepie he's a terrible human being you can't joke about those things without being a literal nazi"
"joke was insensitive but he's not a nazi"
"stop enabling more people to be nazis"
 
P

Pitrise

Banned
Beefy said:
Well it is look at what you just posted you are saying people that belong to a group that openly harasses people may not be bad people? Umm how does that make sense? Every one connected to GG is either total scum or is ok to be associated with total scum. So you are either ok harassing people or ok with being in a group that harass people. Both are equally as bad.

Also your posts about JonTron are laughable, he called the womens march sexist and kept moaning about it. There are many tweets of him sharing his disgusting views, just go look it up.
Click to expand...

APF said:
Couldn't I say the same thing whenever you encounter this person you think is "ACTUALLY" misogynistic? As flawed beings maybe we should never try to interpret the world around us.
Click to expand...

Fair points. I don't support any of those things either.
 
V

VibratingDonkey

Member
Sande said:
That's the thing though. The person in question should not matter. They could be making a video of Breivik and still would not have any right to skew and mislead.
Click to expand...
I agree that they misled and shouldn't have. I just don't think the impact particularly matters in this case. Or well, aside from the whole aspect of giving less savory characters the means to dive in on the "dishonest media" path. That's not good for anyone.
 
C

chillybright

Banned
At this point it's inevitable for anybody to be labeled as alt-right. It didn't take long for Trey and Matt a short while ago. Surprisingly it took this many pages for PWP. Still just a matter of time.
 
A

aeolist

Banned
R00bot said:
This thread has regressed to
"Pewdiepie isn't actually racist it was a joke"
"Fuck pewdiepie he's a terrible human being you can't joke about those things without being a literal nazi"
"joke was insensitive but he's not a nazi"
"stop enabling more people to be nazis"
Click to expand...
oh look another post of meta-commentary and fights with ridiculous strawmen because nobody actually wants to engage with anyone else's real complaints
 
V

VibratingDonkey

Member
ModestMouseTrap said:
Yeah Sargon and Milo are real pieces of work. I really hope this isn't going to become some regular association. But I hate to say it, when people feel attacked they tend to gravitate towards people that make them feel welcome even if they are toxic.
Click to expand...
Suppose this speaks in favor of Pewdiepie's character, to some extent. He's not the worst. And well, I guess that's something.
 
Vol5

Vol5

Member
I honestly couldn't say he's an out and out racist or fascist, more a dumb kid, thrust into the limelight with no team to reign him in. Basically, his show is out of control because he's of the belief that due to his subscriber number, his word is grander than any other. The WSJ article is generally sound with it's assumptions. The content is without a doubt questionable.

I'll put this one down to fucking stupidity and living in a bubble....obviously he's got no idea about the message he's sending which is the greater worry. Looking "shocked but not really shocked" sends out a terrible message instead of dismissing it there and then as wrong or wholly inappropriate.

(and he's got some sort of ppppeewwwwdiddieeeeeepiiieee tourettes which he needs to see a doctor about)
 
A

AESplusF

Member
Vol5 said:
I honestly couldn't say he's an out and out racist or fascist, more a dumb kid, thrust into the limelight with no team to reign him in. Basically, his show is out of control because he's of the belief that due to his subscriber number, his word is grander than any other. The WSJ article is generally sound with it's assumptions. The content is without a doubt questionable.

I'll put this one down to fucking stupidity and living in a bubble....obviously he's got no idea about the message he's sending which is the greater worry. Looking "shocked but not really shocked" sends out a terrible message instead of dismissing it there and then as wrong or wholly inappropriate.
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That's pretty much how I feel about this, and I mean if you think about it, it makes sense that youtubers continue to fall into situations like this, a lot of them are in the same boat but with fewer subs.
 
I'm new be nice

I'm new be nice

Member
What even is discussion anymore? Holy fuck at this thread, YouTubers, News organizations, the whole internet and everyone involved.

Kojima was right.
 
S

Sande

Member
Alucrid said:
so is it exclusively in the past or not considering he said it in a recent video? if it's uncharacteristic of him why does he have a past of saying it in the first place?
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I say it's uncharacteristic because I practically never see him do anything like that and it suddenly comes out of nowhere for no reason. Maybe it's a crack in the facade and we just got a glimpse of the racist behind it all, but I really don't get that vibe from Felix.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, I don't think these things are something he's been just throwing around even in his early days. And people learn to do and be better all the time. I don't want to hold old things over people unless it's something truly unforgivable.

Vol5 said:
(and he's got some sort of ppppeewwwwdiddieeeeeepiiieee tourettes which he needs to see a doctor about)
Click to expand...
Well that's uncalled for.
Are you ironically doing what PDP gets called out on?
 
B

broncobuster

Banned
Marquis said:
I can't believe we share the earth with people who believe such asinine "hot takes" such as this.
Click to expand...

I think many youtubers are rushing to defend the king of youtube mountain for ostensibly sharing the same occupation and the faint insecurity they must feel seeing him taken to task. It's in their interest, as these discussions could in the future return to affect their own livelihood. So they're sort of lashing out while there's a spotlight.
 
B

BajiBoxer

Banned
I thought he made some good points towards the middle, sounded like he understood his "jokes" went too far and were poorly constructed, and had some good arguments with how the WSJ did him wrong. Too much whining about "the media" as a big bad vaugue boogeyman and a really poor argument towards the end about normalizing hate speech though. Also, the shitty jump cuts really detract from the point of the video. Gives it too much of a phony feel for what it was supposed to be, imo. Just talk to the camera.
 
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