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[Backfoggen]

So, never?

Yes, exactly. Thank you for posting.

 

[Duxxy3]

Don't Expect a New XBOX Every Two Years, but expect a new XBOX every four years

And I'm thinking that would be perfectly fine for the Xbox core. As long as they can play their old games on their new consoles.

 

[wapplew]

4 years is a sweet spot.

4 years mean 1.3 game for studio with 3 years dev cycle...

 

[oti]

4 years is a sweet spot.

They can release a new Xbox every month as far as I'm concerned, as long as forward compatibility is guaranteed.

 

[jelly]

4 years probably and it really depends if the technology on offer is a big enough leap to be useful. There will be no set time frame. Most devs take 3-4 years or longer in some cases to make a game so there is really no point rushing out new consoles just because there is an upgrade available.

Microsoft will likely have a cheap next gen game console to go against a PS5 with the Scorpio and still have a beast to leapfrog the PS5 in the bank when support is dropped for Xbox One and PS4.

 

[Jarod McChicken]

There is an interesting bit about how every Xbox One games will have to run on Scorpio. It sounds like the interoperability was less automatic to create than PS4 games on PS4 Pro, probably because the Scorpio architecture is more different with a potential new CPU and such ? I may be reading that wrong but Phil's comment make it sound like studios will have to work on something to make their Xbox One games Scorpio compatible.

There is definitely work involved with that promise of your Xbox One games running on Scorpio. I don’t want to make it seem like it’s free. There is technical work that had to happen before we could actually make that promise on stage at E3, because I didn’t want to miss that opportunity. And frankly, we had to work with our partners and say, “Here’s what we’re going to need in order to make this something that we support.”

As a reminder, here is how the 700 PS4 games should run flawlessy on the PS4 Pro, as explained by Mark Cerny on the great Digital Foundry piece.

"First, we doubled the GPU size by essentially placing it next to a mirrored version of itself, sort of like the wings of a butterfly. That gives us an extremely clean way to support the existing 700 titles," Cerny explains, detailing how the Pro switches into its 'base' compatibility mode. "We just turn off half the GPU and run it at something quite close to the original GPU."

 

[AmFreak]

They are bound to die shrinks.
No shrink = no console.

 

[pitchfork]

The reason I say all this is, on Xbox One, I look at ReCore and I’m having a really good time with it. I wish the review scores were higher, but I love the lead character and I love the gameplay. And you can see that, some years from now, people will want to play another version of it because the memories that they have – even though it wasn’t a 95-rated game – stick with them and they mean something over time.
I always chuckle a little bit when people come up to me and say, “Hey, I want Ryse 2!” When Ryse was a launch game for Xbox One it ran into some review headwinds. Now when people think back it’s like, “Okay, there’s something there.”
I do think we’ve probably seen things launch on the Xbox One that we will want a sequel to, which will become – I don’t know about as iconic as Halo and Gears because both franchises are massive – things that are long-term for us.

Please Phil, I'd love a sequel to both of these ; )

 

[Curufinwe]

They are bound to die shrinks.
No shrink = no console.

That's what really matters, not number of years elapsed.

 

[Lichter]

I've just built my own "Xbox Scorpio" (first gaming PC), so XBO might be my last Xbox console for a long time.

I still play it a lot tho, and Play Anywhere is a great program (it's a factor that pushed me onto PC gaming actually)!

 

[onQ123]

Scorpio is the gateway into Windows Multimedia Computers

 

[centmoe]

Please Phil, I'd love a sequel to both of these ; )

I actually think a reCore and sunset sequel is going to happen. ReCore devs been hinting at dlc for a few weeks now aswell

 

[Elandyll]

Every year or 2? No.

Every 3-4? Probably, at least for Sony.
Personally I expect Scorpio to be a big experiment for MS.

I see it as a more premium, HTPC like machine, with back and forward compatibility based on Win10.
From there on, if successful, they will have multiple choices:
- Continue releasing their own custom HTPC every 3 years or so, branded Xbox, each being a marked power up from the last.
- Lease the brand out to HTPC makers like Dell, Cyberpower, HP or others
- release two types of machines to cover both ends, one low cost console-like HTPC, and one high end premium, alternatively with each other.

If unsuccessful, they can decide to double down on PC, go back to a pure R&D custom console model and/or persist having a loss leader at the potential risk of seeing the division split off.

 

[jdmonmou]

Scorpio is the gateway into Windows Multimedia Computers

I thought that was the Xbox One? Hopefully MS doesn't try to revive their old business plans under Don Mattrick.

 

[dmr87]

We'll see.

 

[Journey]

There is an interesting bit about how every Xbox One games will have to run on Scorpio. It sounds like the interoperability was less automatic to create than PS4 games on PS4 Pro, probably because the Scorpio architecture is more different with a potential new CPU and such ?

I think that was a major part of Sony keeping the same CPU, they're taking a huge hit in hardware potential because of this, but will it pay off? If Scorpio is able to pull it off, even if the burden is moved to developers, I would say it's a lot better than putting the burden on the consumer by giving them lesser hardware.

 

[DagnastyEp]

Some interesting info from the Game Informer article:

On Xbox One spec dragging down Scorpio's potential:

I know from a pure console perspective I hear, “Hey, you’re going to drag Scorpio down by making devs continue to support the Xbox One.” But anyone that has played PC games knows that PCs have a minimum spec, a recommended spec and an unbounded spec. And I don’t think anybody says, “Wow, Battlefield at the top-end is somehow held back by its ability to support [low-end PCs].” Devs know how to build scalable games. They already do.

On ensuring Xbox One games work on Scorpio:

This implies that Xbox One and Xbox Scorpio share similar architecture...
There is definitely work involved with that promise of your Xbox One games running on Scorpio. I don’t want to make it seem like it’s free. There is technical work that had to happen before we could actually make that promise on stage at E3, because I didn’t want to miss that opportunity. And frankly, we had to work with our partners and say, “Here’s what we’re going to need in order to make this something that we support.”

On Palmer Luckey's politics:

You have an established relationship with Oculus and Palmer Luckey. How do the recent revelations that he personally funded racist propaganda in support of Donald Trump affect that relationship?
On the political side with Palmer, I don’t really have much to comment. Not to duck it, I honestly read the same things you read, but I actually don’t know Palmer that well. I’ve met him maybe twice, so I don’t have much to say about that.

Just to be clear on our partnership with Oculus: they license our controller to bundle with their head-mounted display. That’s what we did. And we happen to ship Minecraft on Gear VR and Oculus.

At a working level, we’re as invested in making sure that all the Windows head-mounted displays work. We’re working with Valve and HTC to make sure that device works, too.

Some of these may be new thread worthy, not sure.

 

[pitchfork]

I actually think a reCore and sunset sequel is going to happen. ReCore devs been hinting at dlc for a few weeks now aswell

Would be great!

Gimme a RYSE sequel first though : )

 

[Trago]

4K gaming and VR are sort of the main bullet points i see for Scorpio. There wouldn't be much point in another box past that in a few years. More power? Okay, that's not very exciting after two or three years.

 

[facetheslayer92]

Some interesting info from the Game Informer article:

On Xbox One spec dragging down Scorpio's potential:


On ensuring Xbox One games work on Scorpio:


On Palmer Luckey's politics:


Some of these may be new thread worthy, not sure.

Added

 

[GinoFelino]

Who was expecting a new Xbox every two years?

............

Anyone?

 

[DagnastyEp]

Would be great!

Gimme a RYSE sequel first though : )

I'd love a Ryse sequel. I think they'll have some flagship Scorpio titles for next fall, which really show off the power of the new console. It would be great to see Ryse 2.

 

[SCB3]

Basically confirming that the business model of Xbox now is procedural upgrades every few years (much like GPU's) but ones that continue to support older games


This is the best possible outcome, it's the Apple model

 

[Andodalf]

There is an interesting bit about how every Xbox One games will have to run on Scorpio. It sounds like the interoperability was less automatic to create than PS4 games on PS4 Pro, probably because the Scorpio architecture is more different with a potential new CPU and such ? I may be reading that wrong but Phil's comment make it sound like studios will have to work on something to make their Xbox One games Scorpio compatible.



As a reminder, here is how the 700 PS4 games should run flawlessy on the PS4 Pro, as explained by Mark Cerny on the great Digital Foundry piece.

As a result, Scorpio will make games run better, Where pspro runs them the exact same. With Xbox seeing many variable resolution games, Scorpio should provide locked 1080p. Also, it will also be much more powerful
PlayStation could make a better console this year if they went with a completely new gpu. This isn't a "Omg Sony is magic" Thing. It's something Sony and MS chose to do completely different with advantages to both.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I would imagine the model Apple uses for the iPhone just with more time between releases. So eventually Xbox One will stop being supported but all titles up to whatever Xbox would theoretically be backwards compatible just like apps. So you're buying newer hardware but not losing your games, and the newer hardware isn't necessarily the newest hardware. So basically when the Scorpio's successor is released I would imagine OG Xbox One support will not be required but Scorpio support will be for all games moving forward since it will be the entry level model. So if you still have a OG Xbox One at this point you can do what I imagine will be a cheap upgrade to Scorpio or go all out and get a Xbox Two.

That's all well and good, but they have been referring to forwards compatibility this whole time. If it was just BC, that would be all well and good, but you can't eliminate hardware gens by going indefinate full compatibility, that destroys developer ambition and more importantly, won't even work because Sony does not see forwards compatibility in the same manner.

When PS5 comes out and devs are not necessarily chained to PS4 for example, how does MS keep up the forwards compatibility talk of mandating devs have an XB1 compatible port all the way in 2019 for example? Especially if its as they say and Scorpio is just a stronger XB1...

I had mostly the PS pro in mind.Scorpio seems like a more honest attempt although we can't say for sure until we learn about its price.

They both seem like honest attempts at iterative units to me, Sony's machine being the embodiment of a half cycle upgrade and Scorpio being marginally stronger then that.

 

[AmFreak]

Some interesting info from the Game Informer article:

On Xbox One spec dragging down Scorpio's potential:
I know from a pure console perspective I hear, “Hey, you’re going to drag Scorpio down by making devs continue to support the Xbox One.” But anyone that has played PC games knows that PCs have a minimum spec, a recommended spec and an unbounded spec. And I don’t think anybody says, “Wow, Battlefield at the top-end is somehow held back by its ability to support [low-end PCs].” Devs know how to build scalable games. They already do.

Lol - ofc no one says that, cause the lowest common denominator for games are consoles.

 

[Trago]

Basically confirming that the business model of Xbox now is procedural upgrades every few years (much like GPU's) but ones that continue to support older games


This is the best possible outcome, it's the Apple model

Something I've been calling on the console manufactures to do for a long time. No use in building an entirely new online infrastructure and store every five years, leaving all that software and foundation building stranded on that platform.

Spoiler

*cough* last gen! *cough*

 

[General Lee]

Refreshes are dictated mostly by lithography tech advancing, and even the smart phone refresh cycle is slowing down. GPUs are skipping 10 nm, so the next console cycle can't really begin before 7 nm is ready. Doing console cycles faster than that would imply either larger more expensive chips or going for gimmicks like Nintendo. For MS and Sony a chip with an interposer and HBM is the next big jump, but it'll probably take some years before it's cheap enough at 7 nm to make sense in the console business. I could see them making a more expensive premium version co-existing alongside PS4/Pro or OneS/Scorpio, but leaving the option for devs to make exclusive games for it not supporting the old systems. Eventually once the price drops and install base is larger, devs would naturally transition to the newest model.

 

[Space_nut]

I can't wait for Scorpio to arrive. I'm reserving it as soon it's available

 

[DieAntwoord]

You should take his words with any truth after he flat out said no one wants to buy an upgraded Xbox?

 

[Trago]

That's all well and good, but they have been referring to forwards compatibility this whole time. If it was just BC, that would be all well and good, but you can't eliminate hardware gens by going indefinate full compatibility, that destroys developer ambition and more importantly, won't even work because Sony does not see forwards compatibility in the same manner.

When PS5 comes out and devs are not necessarily chained to PS4 for example, how does MS keep up the forwards compatibility talk of mandating devs have an XB1 compatible port all the way in 2019 for example? Especially if its as they say and Scorpio is just a stronger XB1...

Cross-gen development, how does it work?

Also, games are much much more scalable than they've ever been. This would be a more modern approach to doing things.

 

[Dark Cloud]

Is he saying don't expect their next gen Xbox until 2020 the earliest?

 

[Peltz]

Don't Expect a New XBOX Every Two Years, but expect a new XBOX every four years

I actually am okay with this.

 

[centmoe]

There is an interesting bit about how every Xbox One games will have to run on Scorpio. It sounds like the interoperability was less automatic to create than PS4 games on PS4 Pro, probably because the Scorpio architecture is more different with a potential new CPU and such ? I may be reading that wrong but Phil's comment make it sound like studios will have to work on something to make their Xbox One games Scorpio compatible.



As a reminder, here is how the 700 PS4 games should run flawlessy on the PS4 Pro, as explained by Mark Cerny on the great Digital Foundry piece.

I don't think studios, rather Microsoft themselves might need access to developers codes

 

[Inuhanyou]

Cross-gen development, how does it work?

Also, games are much much more scalable than they've ever been. This would be a more modern approach to doing things.

There's more to developing a game than having dynamic res, and coding to allowing better performance on lower level hardware.

When a game is developed on the absolute base level for the minimum level of hardware, its still something that cannot be overcome with smart tweaking.

For example..

I know from a pure console perspective I hear, “Hey, you’re going to drag Scorpio down by making devs continue to support the Xbox One.” But anyone that has played PC games knows that PCs have a minimum spec, a recommended spec and an unbounded spec. And I don’t think anybody says, “Wow, Battlefield at the top-end is somehow held back by its ability to support [low-end PCs].” Devs know how to build scalable games. They already do.

this is a non answer because we're talking about hardware with such a huge gap that its almost insurmountable to generally have games run if you try to make exclusives for the topper hardware, which would be the end goal for a general PS5.

PC scalability is not the same as moving from PS3 to PS4 for example, and suddenly realizing that all the effects, graphics, more complex level design and detailed environments don't fit inside the render zone.

 

[SCB3]

Is he saying don't expect their next gen Xbox until 2020 the earliest?

No, he's saying that there may not be a "Next gen" Xbox like what you'd expect from consoles, but rather a NEW Xbox One every 4 years (like Smartphones, Apple releases a new version every year, but all app should work on the latest model)

 

[The God]

Something I've been calling on the console manufactures to do for a long time. No use in building an entirely new online infrastructure and store every five years, leaving all that software and foundation building stranded on that platform.

Spoiler

*cough* last gen! *cough*

Why are those things and a traditional console generation mutually exclusive?

 

[Journey]

As a result, Scorpio will make games run better, Where pspro runs them the exact same. With Xbox seeing many variable resolution games, Scorpio should provide locked 1080p. Also, it will also be much more powerful
PlayStation could make a better console this year if they went with a completely new gpu. This isn't a "Omg Sony is magic" Thing. It's something Sony and MS chose to do completely different with advantages to both.

This.

It does put the burden on the developers, but as I said before, as long as all games work, then it doesn't matter how they got there, and if as a result we end up with better performing games, that would be even better and more appealing than games that run and look exactly the same.

 

[Inuhanyou]

I want MS make noises in the form of confirming that devs will still be allowed to take full advantage of their hardware after a certain point as usual, and not be tied down to XB1 just as on the basis of "well for PC its okay!"

These arent PC's regardless of their release frequency, that's the whole issue.

If they can sort that out, i'll be a lot less on edge.

 

[SCB3]

There seems to be so much confusion so I'll help clear it up

So at the moment with consoles:

• New One comes Out
• Old games may not be BC
• But new games are out with better graphics etc

What Xbox wants to do:

• 
  
  This method allows users to upgrade iteratively and works out better if you cannot afford the highest end model at the time but still enjoy decent graphics and features
• Release a new version of Xbox One every few years
• that allows you to play EVERY Xbox one game ever made
• Using the same architecture (Windows 10)
• The Newer versions allow for higher specs on latest games
• if you have an older console, the higher specs may be locked out for you on that Version of console
• but the game is still playable fully (maybe running at medium settings, so reduced shadows/textures)
• Very much like what PC gaming is like currently, upgrades every few years, can play most games from 2002 onwards generally

 

[LukasTaves]

I don't know if i'd classify Pro and SCorpio as half assed overpriced attempts, but i do generally agree with the sentiment of wanting my PS4 to stay relevant for a set number of years before having to move on

That is why i appreciate Sony trying to continue with the viewpoint that gens are still a thing in the face of Pro and things have not really changed in regards to the numbered units staying relevant until the next numbered unit comes along.

But you can get that with iterative consoles, you can jump at your own pace, and if you wait 6 years or so new games are going to look as stellar as they would on a next gen machine, but with the added benefit of the games you already own from those 6 years also running and looking better.

Why do I have a feeling Sony know exactly what system will be out in 2 or so years time.

I imagine Microsoft will punch above their weight with Scorpio, and Sony will announce a ps5 to launch mid 2018 and the leaves frog power cycle will continue.

I doubt ps5 comes out in 2018, but I will say this: No matter when Ps5 launches you can bet Ms will have a comparable spec machine in the same timeframe, even if it's just 1 year after scorpio.

What Phil is saying basically is that they are not committing to a new console every X years because that only gets you more power. They are placing new consoles to be ready when this new extra power provides something to consumers (like 4k or VR). That said, matching the time frame of the next generation PS does qualify as that, and specially given they are not doing platform resets anymore, having a console ready by the time Ps5 hits is a great opportunity to pass on.

 

[Trago]

There's more to developing a game than having dynamic res, and coding to allowing better performance on lower level hardware.

When a game is developed on the absolute base level for the minimum level of hardware, its still something that cannot be overcome with smart tweaking.

For example..



this is a non answer because we're talking about hardware with such a huge gap that its almost insurmountable to generally have games run if you try to make exclusives for the topper hardware, which would be the end goal for a general PS5.

PC scalability is not the same as moving from PS3 to PS4 for example, and suddenly realizing that all the effects, graphics, more complex level design and detailed environments don't fit inside the render zone.

Do you assume that Xbox One will be supported well into the hardware past the Scorpio?

 

[LukasTaves]

Do you assume that Xbox One will be supported well into the hardware past the Scorpio?

Obligatory? No. Supported yes.

Say for example a game like awesomenauts that just released on xbone. If 360 was a uwp console like xbone and scorpio will be the same game that released years ago on 360 could still be receiving updates up to now, with a much bigger community.

Of course, some games would eventually drop support for older consoles (like for instance Overwatch could get a graphical/content update boost 5 years from now that removes support from xbone), but the beauty in this is that it's up to the developer, instead of being forced by development tools.

 

[Trago]

Obligatory? No. Supported yes.

Say for example a game like awesomenauts that just released on xbone. If 360 was a uwp console like xbone and scorpio will be the same game that released years ago on 360 could still be receiving updates up to now, with a much bigger community.

Of course, some games would eventually drop support for older consoles (like for instance Overwatch could get a graphical/content update boost 5 years from now that removes support from xbone), but the beauty in this is that it's up to the developer, instead of being forced by development tools.

That's my view as well. I think that Xbox One will be dropped and a new baseline added for the big AAA games. Sorta like how cross gen was dropped after a few years.

 

[Adam_802]

Well, duh. IDK who actually thought we'd be getting new consoles every 2 years lol.

 

[Goro Majima]

I think the market will dictate whether or not a new console every 2 years would be sustainable. A lot of their business plans going forward probably hinge on how well Scorpio sells. This is kind of uncharted waters for console manufacturers so who knows?

Practically speaking, I typically skip a generation of graphics cards just because I don't see a lot of value upgrading every time nvidia pushes out a new line. If Microsoft did the same then that would put them at about the 3 year mark so it makes sense.

 

[dottme]

I know from a pure console perspective I hear, “Hey, you’re going to drag Scorpio down by making devs continue to support the Xbox One.” But anyone that has played PC games knows that PCs have a minimum spec, a recommended spec and an unbounded spec. And I don’t think anybody says, “Wow, Battlefield at the top-end is somehow held back by its ability to support [low-end PCs].” Devs know how to build scalable games. They already do.

I don't agree. And the PC is a good example. How many PC games are limited by the console specification at the end of a generation.
When you design a game you need to think of everything you have to support and this might mean some cut because the low end spec won't support some core feature.

Edit:
Also, you can look at the cross gen title and at the PS4/PSVita title. It's clear that those titles were limited by the lower specification of the system they have to support.

 

[Hermii]

There is an interesting bit about how every Xbox One games will have to run on Scorpio. It sounds like the interoperability was less automatic to create than PS4 games on PS4 Pro, probably because the Scorpio architecture is more different with a potential new CPU and such ? I may be reading that wrong but Phil's comment make it sound like studios will have to work on something to make their Xbox One games Scorpio compatible.



As a reminder, here is how the 700 PS4 games should run flawlessy on the PS4 Pro, as explained by Mark Cerny on the great Digital Foundry piece.

A very fancy way of saying they ductaped two ps4 GPUs together.

 

[Miles X]

If Switch isn't a success, I can see all three launching a new generation Holiday 2020. First time all companies have released at the same time.

 

[The God]

If Switch isn't a success, I can see all three launching a new generation Holiday 2020. First time all companies have released at the same time.

Nobody's launching a generation anymore.