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[Bryank75]

'Phil Spencer is like the Captain Planet of video games' LOL

 

[oldergamer]

This is just token support for Xbox One though... “just make it run, like shit if you have to, but make it run”. How is this better than Sony’s approach of having some teams supporting a platform late in its generation cycle and some other teams making focused exclusive titles for the new generation? How is that more pro consumer?

In each scenario, PS4 late support or PS5 early support, you are getting a lot more resources actually invested in the game itself and give more polished results to gamers.

Panjev seriously, you can't see the difference between the two approaches? Note you have taken a few different stances in this thread...

1. You were claiming supporting the old hardware will hold back the new hardware (My observation is this seems to only be a problem when its xbox for you)
2. Then you claim that this is a "just make it run" scenario where is runs or looks like shit (you have nothing to base this conclusion on, other then you want to apply a worst case scenario to make your point)
3. Now you are saying what sony is doing with late gen or early gen support, because "you are getting a lot more resources actually invested in the game itself and give more polished results to gamers" is equal to, or somehow more pro consumer?

First, you simply have NO idea what MS is doing regarding how they handle supporting the platforms. Let's admit that. You don't know what the polish/quality level of cross gen will be, you don't know how optimized it will be for each set of hardware, and you don't know how many resources they are investing in it. You keep making claims, that you can't back up.

Second. What's more "pro consumer" and the difference between making "late gen games only" games, is the game you bought for Xbone carries forward to the new hardware and gets upgraded automatically (without having to repurchase the game on new hardware). If you want to enjoy it on older hardware, buy the game, if you have new hardware, buy the same game.

However with sony, you buy the LOU2 and later get a PS5 and stick it in to play, and what you get is the same game as it ran on PS4 with no upgrades. Now sony might offer a free separate game download since you already own it ( MS is forcing their hand this new gen). However historically, sony in the past tried to resell the upgraded version to you again on the new platform, which is less pro consumer.

 

[cormack12]

Spiderman isn’t flagship but still sold more than halo 5 which is THE flagship for Xbox, what defines a flagship then?.COVID affects everyone not just Sony. So if you expect delays, expect it across the border. Doubtful MS goes NBA style bubble for their developers. Tlou2 is getting remastered because a) it didn’t release with MP and people love the fractions mode b) they did it with the first game and it sold like crazy.

Yeah but you're confusing sales with strength of brand. Sales numbers don't matter really, what matters is the brand/IP is available. Mario is a flagship IP but still has outings like NSMBU etc. It's likely if you are considering an Xbox then Halo is a name you recognise. A new Halo on a launch console with all the bells and whistles is going to grab attention. The difference in reaction to Miles Morales to actual spiderman gives you a hint of how powerful the license is rather than the brand. Miles and MJ were easily the worst parts of the game.

And you're right about launch window - at the moment we don't even know whether Ratcher is a launch title. I think Halo is confirmed, but yeah FM8, Fable etc could all be two years out as well. The only reason I lean more towards that not being the case is that the MS studio's haven't really put out a lot recently whereas Sucker Punch and ND have shipped in the last month, SSM only put GoW out in the last two years etc.

Factions is a maybe, but even then it's not gonna be this guaranteed juggernaut. TLOU MP was niche and I think it would struggle to get a large playerbase as an MP only game. I doubt it would even get concurrency of H1Z1.

We all stayed here to make GAF a better place, and I think most of the conversations lately just dismiss the nuance and level of discussion we should be having, which means playing devil's advocate to add a bit of balance. I don't think this is a big deal. If they'd said in six years time we're still going to be outputting Halo 7 on the X1S then yeah I think it would be an issue, but it's not the reality. And although I liked both events so far, both were pretty stark in terms of interest to me.

 

[Fortuneelsewhere]

This is just a fanboy lie. They are simply saying if you can't upgrade immediately, you will still be able to experience the games until we go XsX exclusive in 2 years. But this whole debate is around the reason to upgrade. Why would I buy a PS5 when all flagship IP's are two years away (at least)? On the other hand MS have a flagship IP day one on the Xbox Series X in Halo Infinite. Let's take two situations here for Halo Infinite and TLOU II.

Naughty Dog's last main release was Uncharted 4 in 2016
Halo 5 was the last mainline entry in 2015

The next Halo was deliberately targeted at the Xbox Series X and it will scale down to run on X1X and X1S and has been in development for five years or so.
TLOU II was deliberately targeted at PS4 Pro and would scale down to run on the PS4 and has been in development for four years I guess.

Going into next generation and based on the latest dev cycles, we can assume ND will not have a PS5 exclusive title until 2/3 years into the PS5 lifecycle (which was also the timeline in which Uncharted 4 arrived on PS4). This doesn't even take into account any Pt II DLC or a remaster as well. So if we knew TLOU II was going to be on the PS5, do you think it would look and perform better on the PS5 than on the PS4 Pro? Undoubtedly, yes. However, they chose not to. That does not equal giving me a reason to upgrade. If anything, both these games releasing so late has given me more leeway to consider what Microsoft are bringing to the table. If GoT and TLOU II were day one exclusives on PS5 then you have the pull of continuing a beloved franchise and a brand new sexy IP. Right now, I've held off TLOU II because there is no way I want jet engine noise while playing a poignant story and bought GoT because it looks like a good 30-40 hour action platinum.

But they did this 'swansong' on the PS3 as well - why is this different? For two reasons, first migrating the ND engine from the cell broke a shitload of code so it wasn't an easy scale up job. Second, Cerny even said in his road to PS5 video that the time to triangle from PS4 to PS5 was around a month. In that amount of time in which millions of lines of code were generated for rope, and there were multiple rewrites requiring new animations there wasn't time to just port the game engines to have a flagship IP on the PS5 release? The reality is you're going to end up with a remaster with enhanced FPS and resolution like TLOU:R and be asked to buy again.

This has been a decision made a long time ago. And this ties into everyone saying about no XsX exclusives for two years. Well guess what - that's around the same timeline all the Sony AAA's are on as well. It's just that in the meantime, you can probably expect the flagship IPs from Microsoft to appear earlier and be playable on the X1X etc. before they go dedicated. If you're talking about these flagship IPs having new entries within six months of launch (Halo, FM8, Fable) but being backwards scalable while Sony are still making dedicated PS5 titles that are another 2/3 years away then yeah the next Sackboy and Ratchet and Clank aren't going to cut it I'm afraid.

You’re talking nonsense for to many pages now...

What are you saying? Are you really comparing sony first party output with ms? Sony doesn’t need to hold anything for next gen.. including TLOU II or ghost of Tsushima for people to buy ps5 day one.. are you living under a rock? If anything, releasing those games on PS4 is another reason for people to have confidence in Sony.. as they fully support a great gaming system as PS4 until the very end of is life cycle and for sure will support ps5 also in the same manner...

This is what you call Brand value and CONSISTENCY.. and that is what Microsoft lacks regarding Xbox...

The majority of Sony first party studios released nothing but fantastic games this gen and is the prospect of them continuing to do that next gen that makes ps5 so compelling.. either being at ps5 launch window or 1,2 or 3 years down the line..

implying that Sony needs to have all their big franchises as launch window to validade Sony statement that they want the faster transition ever is utterly nonsense and void of logic..

Don’t worry that for ps5 will be plenty of fantastic games at launch window and many more to come as generation goes by...

And that’s why when next gen preorders open, you’ll see that real world actions and consistency as a brand will always trump PR nonsense, marketing sound bits and fancy words..

By the way you should be worried instead with MS that doesn’t put out a decent new IP for years..

 

[Qudrat Rabbi]

Yeah but you're confusing sales with strength of brand. Sales numbers don't matter really, what matters is the brand/IP is available. Mario is a flagship IP but still has outings like NSMBU etc. It's likely if you are considering an Xbox then Halo is a name you recognise. A new Halo on a launch console with all the bells and whistles is going to grab attention. The difference in reaction to Miles Morales to actual spiderman gives you a hint of how powerful the license is rather than the brand. Miles and MJ were easily the worst parts of the game.

And you're right about launch window - at the moment we don't even know whether Ratcher is a launch title. I think Halo is confirmed, but yeah FM8, Fable etc could all be two years out as well. The only reason I lean more towards that not being the case is that the MS studio's haven't really put out a lot recently whereas Sucker Punch and ND have shipped in the last month, SSM only put GoW out in the last two years etc.

Factions is a maybe, but even then it's not gonna be this guaranteed juggernaut. TLOU MP was niche and I think it would struggle to get a large playerbase as an MP only game. I doubt it would even get concurrency of H1Z1.

We all stayed here to make GAF a better place, and I think most of the conversations lately just dismiss the nuance and level of discussion we should be having, which means playing devil's advocate to add a bit of balance. I don't think this is a big deal. If they'd said in six years time we're still going to be outputting Halo 7 on the X1S then yeah I think it would be an issue, but it's not the reality. And although I liked both events so far, both were pretty stark in terms of interest to me.

So sales |= strength of a brand ? That makes 0 sense. Do you know how big spiderman as brand is? Just google which superhero nets the most profits worldwide(its not iron man).it seems like your personal opinion when it comes to these two games and just that which is fine I like halo as well. But it ain’t post halo 3 and halo 4 is coming up type of hype, 4 and 5 made sure of that.
you keep calling these games “not juggernaut” yet they all sold close to 10 million. Rephrase it with I don’t like them as much as Xbox games and I got no beef with you. But acting like Xbox exclusives are bigger than playstation when we just witnessed it’s not the case anymore is just not accepting reality

 

[Nikana]

Well Capcom have already decided for RE8 to drop last gen



Next year I predict Phil will say new things that MS are now focussing on XSX and Lockart and listening to their customers. ............Whatever.

I predict no matter what Microsoft does you will bitch about it.....whatever.

 

[hyperbertha]

No one said they can't be done, they are just done on varying levels, in other words their scalable just like graphics, which is what you expect with weaker/stronger hardware. Also SoM released in 2014 some 10 months after the new generation launched, so roughly the same amount of time as Xbox intends to support last generation before moving exclusively next generation.

I will just leave it at that.

Edit: Confused SoW with SoM and time line.

Nemesis system was only 'scalable' because it was a side feature. The base gameplay didn't depend on it to work so they could have two separate versions without taking away much. But take anything that's integral to base gameplay and its over. Here's actual devs (xbox no less) talking about gameplay that can't be done on older systems: https://wccftech.com/the-medium-couldnt-be-done-in-the-same-way-on-current-gen-bloober/

"I can't tell you right now about our most important feature, because we will have to save it for later. But the gameplay mechanic built around those two worlds couldn't be fully realized on current-gen hardware "

Are you done with your fud?

 

[geordiemp]

I predict no matter what Microsoft does you will bitch about it.....whatever.

I predict that you never really have anything interesting to say except childish ad hominem.

I made a valid point about RE8.

You never make any valid points, just always abusive.

Maybe one day you will surprise us.

 

[cormack12]

So sales |= strength of a brand ? That makes 0 sense. Do you know how big spiderman as brand is? Just google which superhero nets the most profits worldwide(its not iron man).it seems like your personal opinion when it comes to these two games and just that which is fine I like halo as well. But it ain’t post halo 3 and halo 4 is coming up type of hype, 4 and 5 made sure of that.
you keep calling these games “not juggernaut” yet they all sold close to 10 million. Rephrase it with I don’t like them as much as Xbox games and I got no beef with you. But acting like Xbox exclusives are bigger than playstation when we just witnessed it’s not the case anymore is just not accepting reality

No, I'm saying a licensed IP has different metrics to measure it's reach by. It's why people buy licenses. Like slapping a LOTR license on a Lords of the Fallen engine would elevate its reach and it would sell a shit ton more. Especially if there hasn't been a LOTR game for some time. Or Bladerunner on The Surge and so forth. Let me put it another way - if we were to have an avatar bet, would you say Miles Morales is going to shift more or less than Spider-Man despite it being the same engine and game mechanics underneath? Look at it this way:


New Xbox - New Halo
New Playstation - ???? (it's missing TLOU, or Uncharted or God of War - even Spider-Man 2. Mile Morales is not the same)


Factions is not a juggernaut. I don't even know how you can come to that conclusion as it was bundled with a single player game. GTA:O was a juggernaut which is why it's being split out from GTA V as a standalone multiplayer next generation. Factions was a niche multiplayer, which had a small but dedicated community. It's also asking a studio to switch from a very strong, single player narrative focus into a large battle royale dominated genre. They've only really toyed with arena based MP from UC2 onwards - woudl you really switch your top selling, record breaking AAA from what it's good at to something like this?

 

[oldergamer]

Seeing these two threads paired up to take a single screenshot like this is quite curious and does represent the point others were making too very concisely:

This is the same guy giving these two interviews... and it is not like they are years apart.

You realize the second quote above ( as it has been explained to you earlier in this very thread) he's talking about the the purchasing of third party timed exclusives for the sole purpose of keeping it out of other gamers hands on other platforms, is counter productive.

Adding studios to first party, and and still ensuring those games across multiple ecosystems is what MS prefers. This isn't difficult to understand. MS already stated any games commited to other platforms ( aka Sony or nintendo) they are still getting released. For new games after that, they will target Xbox and PC ( and in some cases playstation and switch since there is an ecosystem there for titles like Minecraft or others.), If they are first party and didn't previously exist on those platforms, they will stay on Xbox and PC. No MS are NOT going third party.

 

[oldergamer]

People are defending Spencer from Spencer’s own words...

You don't seem to understand spencers words imo. Probably by choice.

 

[Xenon]

I have yet to see anything that proves that SSD will usher in a paradigm shift in how games are designed. The only thing close is Ratchet and Clank and that was a gimmick that still had small transitional scenes. Until we some actual proof of this, it's just fanboy posturing.

That said, sometimes Phil seems to try to be above the actual business he's in since he is funded by a company with huge pockets. But he is selling a service and wants as many people signed in as much as possible. Getting people into and invested into that is his main goal right now. He's not looking for a few weeks of huge sales on a AAA title, he wants people subscribed to increase their monthly revenue stream. So while this statement seems like he is both magnanimous and naive, it's really just a sales pitch for MS's long game.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

So sales |= strength of a brand ? That makes 0 sense. Do you know how big spiderman as brand is? Just google which superhero nets the most profits worldwide(its not iron man).it seems like your personal opinion when it comes to these two games and just that which is fine I like halo as well. But it ain’t post halo 3 and halo 4 is coming up type of hype, 4 and 5 made sure of that.
you keep calling these games “not juggernaut” yet they all sold close to 10 million. Rephrase it with I don’t like them as much as Xbox games and I got no beef with you. But acting like Xbox exclusives are bigger than playstation when we just witnessed it’s not the case anymore is just not accepting reality

I think all recent PS4 exclusives have sold in excess of Halo's highest ever sales total and quite handedly at that. TLOU2 will sail past and even GoT could get over 10m if it's really good.

The argument that Halo Inf. will outsell Spiderman is because Halo will be on XB1, XBSX and PC. But at this point it's no way near Spiderman in terms of a gaming franchise sales (looking at sales figures of ladt entries) let alone in general franchise terms outside gaming (which is obvious).

 

[oldergamer]

“I do not care on which device you play on, those other people doing exclusive that block you based on the device are evil” meanwhile as long as the device is made by MS or runs MS Windows then it is all ok discriminating based on that and cut off the gamers from other ecosystems... yup, not disingenuous double talk .

The i don't care what device part, meant Xbox or PC first party games. Third party exclusives that block you based on device, suck and is the main point. it hurts gamers. The two points can be separate from each other, First and Third party.

 

[Bryank75]

Reminds me of 'Console sales don't matter'

Okay Phil.... we believe you.... now tell us the Xbox SX and SS price points!

Nothing matters till you're winning....

 

[Qudrat Rabbi]

No, I'm saying a licensed IP has different metrics to measure it's reach by. It's why people buy licenses. Like slapping a LOTR license on a Lords of the Fallen engine would elevate its reach and it would sell a shit ton more. Especially if there hasn't been a LOTR game for some time. Or Bladerunner on The Surge and so forth. Let me put it another way - if we were to have an avatar bet, would you say Miles Morales is going to shift more or less than Spider-Man despite it being the same engine and game mechanics underneath? Look at it this way:


New Xbox - New Halo
New Playstation - ???? (it's missing TLOU, or Uncharted or God of War - even Spider-Man 2. Mile Morales is not the same)


Factions is not a juggernaut. I don't even know how you can come to that conclusion as it was bundled with a single player game. GTA:O was a juggernaut which is why it's being split out from GTA V as a standalone multiplayer next generation. Factions was a niche multiplayer, which had a small but dedicated community. It's also asking a studio to switch from a very strong, single player narrative focus into a large battle royale dominated genre. They've only really toyed with arena based MP from UC2 onwards - woudl you really switch your top selling, record breaking AAA from what it's good at to something like this?

So you want Sony to make something like GTA:O for launch now? LMAO. GTA is a different beast, it took a developer like Rockstar multiple years to get it to where it is. You keep proving my point by countering it. Yes people like IP, yes they sell more and yes that is exactly the point I am going for. Kids this gen that never had an Xbox, who didn't experience the actually good Halo games by Bungie arent gonna be wowed by infinite. But they did play spiderman. That combination is key. The factions in TLOU2 was reported to be more ambitious to the point of being its own thing. If that is indeed the case, it'll be a major selling point. I feel like you're missing my point here completely. Going by you're definition of juggernaut, there exists only 2 GTA and fortnite., and those don't happen overnight and definitely not a launch lol

But if you are talking about only launch titles, Halo packs a bigger punch for Xbox fans compared to Spiderman for PS4 fans, I can see that. But Halo bigger isn't bigger than spiderman in any way, shape, or form.

 

[oldergamer]

Reminds me of 'Console sales don't matter'

Okay Phil.... we believe you.... now tell us the Xbox SX and SS price points!

Nothing matters till you're winning....

Console sales don't matter to the consumer purchasing games. I mean, i don't purchase games based on how well a console is selling. I base it on the games i want to play.

 

[Nikana]

I predict that you never really have anything interesting to say except childish ad hominem.

I made a valid point about RE8.

You never make any valid points, just always abusive.

Maybe one day you will surprise us.

Keep telling yourself that.

I have yet to see anything that proves that SSD will usher in a paradigm shift in how games are designed. The only thing close is Ratchet and Clank and that was a gimmick that still had small transitional scenes. Until we some actual proof of this, it's just fanboy posturing.

That said, sometimes Phil seems to try to be above the actual business he's in since he is funded by a company with huge pockets. But he is selling a service and wants as many people signed in as much as possible. Getting people into and invested into that is his main goal right now. He's not looking for a few weeks of huge sales on a AAA title, he wants people subscribed to increase their monthly revenue stream. So while this statement seems like he is both magnanimous and naive, it's really just a sales pitch for MS's long game.

They have been moving to a service style revenue stream for awhile but it seems people are just now figuring out that it takes a difference in strategy to make that pivot. He has been telegraphing this for years.

 

[Bryank75]

Console sales don't matter to the consumer purchasing games. I mean, i don't purchase games based on how well a console is selling. I base it on the games i want to play.

Ok, so why isn't he being 'pro-consumer' and letting his very important consumers know how much they have to pay?

Is it because he cares about sales much more than his consumers?

 

[Xenon]

Keep telling yourself that.




They have been moving to a service style revenue stream for awhile but it seems people are just now figuring out that it takes a difference in strategy to make that pivot. He has been telegraphing this for years.

I am kinda wondering if that was part of the plan in acquiring Minecraft.

 

[Redlight]

The fact is if you really care about the most people possible having access to games and not "locking people away" then you would ensure those games are not locked in to a single ecosystem.

On the whole, third party developers have demonstrated this since the beginning of time and will natively release their games everywhere possible, even down to mobile in some cases. However, when you are a platform (or ecosystem) owner then you have a vested interest and it is no longer just about making sure everyone has access to the games you make. It's about making sure people have access to games on your terms. That's not absolute freedom of choice, that's not empowering the consumer. Yes, you now have multiple access points which is commendable, but he's attempting to talk this up into something it really isn't and it's clear as day. Take this snippet for example:



Any device huh? What he should be saying is any modern PC or Xbox since the Xbox One. And again with this "device" bullshit:



Sorry Phil, but last time I checked anyone who doesn't have a Windows PC or an Xbox is "locked away" from experiencing those games.

Can I play your games on my Linux laptop running Pop OS? No? Oh I have to buy one of your "devices" or have a device that runs your operating system do I? Funny that. What about PS4, Switch, Mac OS and Stadia users? No? No love for them either.

What they are doing directly contradicts the ideology he is trying to put forward. That ideology will be further contradicted when they suddenly stop releasing their first party games on the Xbox One without notice. He's full of shit.

I agree with you to some extent, it would be great, as a consumer, if all games were available everywhere, more akin to films in a cinema than films on a streaming service.

That said, it's clear to me that Spencer is selling the MS vision of 'cross device' for their customers, a device agnostic approach, but not a company agnostic one. He's talking about MS games on all kinds of MS licensed devices, not every device available.

If you want to take it literally, next thing we'll have internet refrigerator owners in here complaining that they can't play Halo Infinite on their Fisher & Paykel.

 

[cormack12]

So you want Sony to make something like GTA:O for launch now? LMAO. GTA is a different beast, it took a developer like Rockstar multiple years to get it to where it is. You keep proving my point by countering it. Yes people like IP, yes they sell more and yes that is exactly the point I am going for. Kids this gen that never had an Xbox, who didn't experience the actually good Halo games by Bungie arent gonna be wowed by infinite. But they did play spiderman. That combination is key. The factions in TLOU2 was reported to be more ambitious to the point of being its own thing. If that is indeed the case, it'll be a major selling point. I feel like you're missing my point here completely. Going by you're definition of juggernaut, there exists only 2 GTA and fortnite., and those don't happen overnight and definitely not a launch lol

I think you need to reread back. It was you suggesting Factions is coming and going to be a strong selling point for a P5 remaster. If you're laughing at Factions being that big, then we're laughing together. I was merely saying the rumours of Factions being big enough to get its own MP were not grounded in reality.

Tlou2 is getting remastered because a) it didn’t release with MP and people love the fractions mode b) they did it with the first game and it sold like crazy.

I think you're vastly over estimating how big Factions is. It had no bearing on TLOU I selling so well, it was the single player campaign. It's as ludicours as suggesting people bought UC2 for its multiplayer mode. It's probably not even as big as UC2 multiplayer was. Also, are you expecting Miles Morales to have sales parity with Spider-Man or outsell it? Bear in mind, it's using the spider-man license and it will have many more years to overcome that gap. I can tell you now, it definitely won't. Just look at LL versus Uncharted 4 for the difference between brand and games attached to the brand.

 

[jimbojim]

And that's why Xbox will never win. It will be always outsold by Sony and Nintendo

 

[Nikana]

I am kinda wondering if that was part of the plan in acquiring Minecraft.

That purchase always to me felt a bit strange. It made sense from a money perspective because it was like the Star Wars purchase in that as long as you try even a tiny bit you will make your money back. But when it comes to services Minecraft doesn't really have a service stream of revenue?

 

[splattered]

Console sales don't matter to the consumer purchasing games. I mean, i don't purchase games based on how well a console is selling. I base it on the games i want to play.

Believe it or not some people do exactly that... some consumers are incapable of making their own decisions based solely on their own opinion of things and instead default to whatever is perceived to be the most popular.

It's very strange to me... to not properly research and try things out especially hands on but rather just follow the herd.

 

[Nikana]

Console sales don't matter to the consumer purchasing games. I mean, i don't purchase games based on how well a console is selling. I base it on the games i want to play.

Its basically the ecosystem model which has been hinted at by Spencer for years now. I think its a smart strategy on paper but I have to wonder if the market will actually adapt? Is putting xcloud on mobile really going to get people to subscribe to GP? Sure they have the access but is the market ready for that type of paradigm shift?

 

[Redlight]

Well Capcom have already decided for RE8 to drop last gen



Next year I predict Phil will say new things that MS are now focussing on XSX and Lockart and listening to their customers. ............Whatever.

There are a lot of games that will be Series X only. Spencer is only talking about MS first-party. We've known that for a long time. 'The Medium' is next gen only for instance. Did you forget? Or did your agenda get in the way?

 

[Qudrat Rabbi]

I think you need to reread back. It was you suggesting Factions is coming and going to be a strong selling point for a P5 remaster. If you're laughing at Factions being that big, then we're laughing together. I was merely saying the rumours of Factions being big enough to get its own MP were not grounded in reality.



I think you're vastly over estimating how big Factions is. It had no bearing on TLOU I selling so well, it was the single player campaign. It's as ludicours as suggesting people bought UC2 for its multiplayer mode. It's probably not even as big as UC2 multiplayer was. Also, are you expecting Miles Morales to have sales parity with Spider-Man or outsell it? Bear in mind, it's using the spider-man license and it will have many more years to overcome that gap. I can tell you now, it definitely won't. Just look at LL versus Uncharted 4 for the difference between brand and games attached to the brand.

bro it had no bearing cause they didn't reveal it until few weeks before launch and ended up being extremely popular. I didn't say major selling point for the console, but the games remaster.
Rumor:
yup rumor alright. If you keep throwing facts out of the window, we wont get anywhere. Yes it WILL be a major selling point if they release it with an ambitious multiplayer. Youre underestimating last of us. And yes the last of us multiplayer is much more fun than uncharted, cause I played both of them and people were in last of us lobbies a lot longer before moving on unlike uncharted. Also in no way am I suggesting people buy it for multiplayer, not sure who has difficulty reading. I merely said it will sell remasters if it came with a MP. "reread" lol

 

[Xenon]

That purchase always to me felt a bit strange. It made sense from a money perspective because it was like the Star Wars purchase in that as long as you try even a tiny bit you will make your money back. But when it comes to services Minecraft doesn't really have a service stream of revenue?

There is Realms, so yes its there but the big thing is getting users to create a Live account.

 

[Nikana]

There is Realms, so yes its there but the big thing is getting users to create a Live account.

This is where my knowledge of Minecraft is obviously lacking. I am not sure what Realms even is lol.

 

[geordiemp]

There are a lot of games that will be Series X only. Spencer is only talking about MS first-party. We've known that for a long time. 'The Medium' is next gen only for instance. Did you forget? Or did your agenda get in the way?

?? I would like to see Jaguar die and all games made for it with crap AI, enemy numbers and physics.

RE8, Medium and hellblade ??

Hopefully there are more. Is new fable cross gen ?

 

[FacelessSamurai]

His attitude would be consistent with his actions and more non console warrior people would more easily follow him if he was on an Xbox Games Studios as third party strategy. Apparently he has been able to convince his core followers that Windows PC fulfills that promise of targeting gamers on all devices (strangely their games are neither on macOS nor on Linux... ) and that means he can use this holier than though white knight routine exactly as he is doing.

I do not really dislike the guy in many of his talks, but when he does console warring and either him or his reportee Greenberg feed the console warriors/trolls while pretending to be preventing that (basics of projecting, chastise others for something you are already doing).

Windows is the default PC gaming OS, you know that, everyone knows that. Mac OS and Linux gaming engagement is a statistical error and no dev/publisher is taking those seriously, even Valve tries and it’s failing pretty badly at it, and I have yet to encounter 1 person on the wild who games on Linux.

Xbox/PC/cellphones and tablets(xCloud) and also Samsung TVs soon is pretty much all devices imo, nothing disingenuous about it. That means your games are on computers, consoles, smart TVs and smart devices, you pretty much cover all bases that way. Also, their games scale super well on PC, even stuff like Forza and Sea of Thieves were made to scale all the way down to integrated graphics, the Cursed setting on Sea of Thieves being created specifically for that, making it playable on something like a surface pro 3.

 

[cormack12]

yup rumor alright. If you keep throwing facts out of the window, we wont get anywhere. Yes it WILL be a major selling point if they release it with an ambitious multiplayer. Youre underestimating last of us. And yes the last of us multiplayer is much more fun than uncharted, cause I played both of them and people were in last of us lobbies a lot longer before moving on unlike uncharted.

That's what I was basing my post on. It clealy states you won't be enjoying it as part of TLOU II, hence the standalone part. You think it will be put into the remaster. I think it makes more sense to split it out like GTA:O - but my position is that the multiplayer is not that popular to warrant an entire GaaS mode built around it. Either way, we'll have to see, because none of us have crystal balls - but ultimately it ties up the studio even longer working on a remaster and then a multiplayer mode which no-one is really asking for in a saturated genre. So when can we expect to see ND's actual next story based IP because all this is pushing it further and further out - esepcially when the last game they shipped took the longest when they had the most staff.......which is kind of my first point. Those flagship IPs being some way off for PS5

Anyway, I'm going to actually play some games for a bit so peace out bro

 

[Xenon]

This is where my knowledge of Minecraft is obviously lacking. I am not sure what Realms even is lol.

Its a multiplayer server service for Minecraft that costs 7.99 which offers more players at once, different areas and game types.

 

[Redlight]

?? I would like to see Jaguar die and all games made for it with crap AI, enemy numbers and physics.

RE8, Medium and hellblade ??

Hopefully there are more. Is new fable cross gen ?

There will be a lot of third-party games that are next gen only for both consoles. There will be a few MS exclusives that will be cross-gen in the first year or so.

Everybody wins, well, at least on the Xbox side.

 

[Qudrat Rabbi]

That's what I was basing my post on. It clealy states you won't be enjoying it as part of TLOU II, hence the standalone part. You think it will be put into the remaster. I think it makes more sense to split it out like GTA:O - but my position is that the multiplayer is not that popular to warrant an entire GaaS mode built around it. Either way, we'll have to see, because none of us have crystal balls - but ultimately it ties up the studio even longer working on a remaster and then a multiplayer mode which no-one is really asking for in a saturated genre. So when can we expect to see ND's actual next story based IP because all this is pushing it further and further out - esepcially when the last game they shipped took the longest when they had the most staff.......which is kind of my first point. Those flagship IPs being some way off for PS5

Why would they remaster the game if PS5 is backwards compatible? that would not make sense for just extra graphics fidelity(it made sense on PS4 because it was not backwards compatible). From their point of view, they can easily make more by remastering it, with MP being new content and extra bells and whistles. i never suggested it'll be as big as GTA:O, but only that it'll be a selling point for a remaster. Definitely the new IP is at least 1-2 year away no denying that. You just keep switching arguments lol

 

[Nikana]

Its a multiplayer server service for Minecraft that costs 7.99 which offers more players at once, different areas and game types.

Ah ok then I stand corrected.

 

[Qudrat Rabbi]

Anyway, I'm going to actually play some games for a bit so peace out bro

Yes, better use of both of our time

 

[sircaw]

'Phil Spencer is like the Captain Planet of video games' LOL

This video really does put Phil Spencer's bullshit in perspective.

He really is a used car salesman, will say anything and do anything to bullshit people.

 

[Psykodad]

bro it had no bearing cause they didn't reveal it until few weeks before launch and ended up being extremely popular. I didn't say major selling point for the console, but the games remaster.
Rumor:
yup rumor alright. If you keep throwing facts out of the window, we wont get anywhere. Yes it WILL be a major selling point if they release it with an ambitious multiplayer. Youre underestimating last of us. And yes the last of us multiplayer is much more fun than uncharted, cause I played both of them and people were in last of us lobbies a lot longer before moving on unlike uncharted. Also in no way am I suggesting people buy it for multiplayer, not sure who has difficulty reading. I merely said it will sell remasters if it came with a MP. "reread" lol

TLOU2 multiplayer will be a stand-alone release that might not even be part of the TLOU franchise.

How do people turn that into a possible TLOU2 Remaster?

 

[Redlight]

Its basically the ecosystem model which has been hinted at by Spencer for years now. I think its a smart strategy on paper but I have to wonder if the market will actually adapt? Is putting xcloud on mobile really going to get people to subscribe to GP? Sure they have the access but is the market ready for that type of paradigm shift?

I agree with you. I think there's a danger that the 'any device' idea is potentially trying to move the market away from enthusiasts like you and I and more into the mainstream. I think it may be foreshadowing a change that's inevitable for all gaming companies. Neogaf users may become the equivalent of Indie movie fans in a world that only wants fail-proof, mass-market blockbusters.

 

[Qudrat Rabbi]

TLOU2 multiplayer will be a stand-alone release that might not even be part of the TLOU franchise.

How do people turn that into a possible TLOU2 Remaster?

If you are gonna release an old game one on a new console that is backwards compatible, including a brand new mode makes complete sense. Thats all i said. Its not official, its not something my uncle who "definitely works at naughty dog" told me. Its just something that i think makes sense. Dont buy a PS5 based purely on my statement lol

 

[Redlight]

This video really does put Phil Spencer's bullshit in perspective.

He really is a used car salesman, will say anything and do anything to bullshit people.

It's like watching something made by you, Geordiemp or Bryank75. Spoiler: Being on Youtube doesn't make you smarter or more insightful. The guy sounds like a flat earther.

 

[sircaw]

It's like watching something made by you, Geordiemp or Bryank75. Spoiler: Being on Youtube doesn't make you smarter or more insightful. The guy sounds like a flat earther.

What has he said that is incorrect? if he sounds like some idiot flat earther, it should be easy to counter, You did watch the video i hope, just give me a quick run down.
Just take his first point in the video and explain to me why what he said is wrong.

 

[Nikana]

I agree with you. I think there's a danger that the 'any device' idea is potentially trying to move the market away from enthusiasts like you and I and more into the mainstream. I think it may be foreshadowing a change that's inevitable for all gaming companies. Neogaf users may become the equivalent of Indie movie fans in a world that only wants fail-proof, mass-market blockbusters.

I am not sure if I agree that they are trying to move the market away from enthusiasts but more try to get enthusiasts into more games.

When I look at something like GP, as someone who played a ton of games even before GP, I am finding myself playing a lot of games that I never would have. And it helps me recommend games to others that might not want to/have the gaming background to be able to hop into a Halo or Killer Instinct. I have suggested games like Lonely Mountains and Two Point hospital to the hardcore and some casual gaming friends a like. I never would have been able to offer games to the more casual if it wasn't for GP.

Taking that mentality and apply it to the mass market I think makes sense and will indeed get more people in on your service. But I am not sure without a dedicated piece of hardware it will resonate with the more casual fans. I understand thats where Lockhart comes in but it still seems like a big ask. But the key here is that GP's price is low enough that theres enough perceived value from the hardcore and casual a like. For someone like me I am making a killing and saving a ton of money and to the casual even though they might play A game a month, they see $10 as more than a good value.

 

[Psykodad]

If you are gonna release an old game one on a new console that is backwards compatible, including a brand new mode makes complete sense. Thats all i said. Its not official, its not something my uncle who "definitely works at naughty dog" told me. Its just something that i think makes sense. Dont buy a PS5 based purely on my statement lol

They'll probably release a PS5 update at best.
The remasters this gen were to lure in xbox fans and people on the fence at the start of this gen.
Wouldn't even be surprised if a PS5 updste had already been planned.

Anyway, I wasn't trying to start an argument. Lol
Just don't get this idea of every game beibg remastered for PS5.

 

[Qudrat Rabbi]

They'll probably release a PS5 update at best.
The remasters this gen were to lure in xbox fans and people on the fence at the start of this gen.
Wouldn't even be surprised if a PS5 updste had already been planned.

Anyway, I wasn't trying to start an argument. Lol
Just don't get this idea of every game beibg remastered for PS5.

its all good, i just didn't wanna start a baseless rumor "cause some guy on neogaf" said it and actually be that guy hahaha

 

[Redlight]

What has he said that is incorrect? if he sounds like some idiot flat earther, it should be easy to counter, You did watch the video i hope, just give me a quick run down.
Just take his first point in the video and explain to me why what he said is wrong.

The level of argument is this...

"Xbox fan boys are like...'bro, phil spencer and Xbox are so pro-consumer bro, their so fucking so pro-consumer, Phil Spencer is like the fucking Captain Planet of video games, so fucking pro consumer bro'”

It's juvenile and literal to the point of causing me pain to watch it. Is that the ceiling of the debate for you? The end point? Some imbecile with an agenda made an actual video and put it on Youtube. Argument over!

Come on sircaw, you're better than that. I've seen you guys make much better arguments than that cretinous peacock.

 

[Redlight]

I am not sure if I agree that they are trying to move the market away from enthusiasts but more try to get enthusiasts into more games.

When I look at something like GP, as someone who played a ton of games even before GP, I am finding myself playing a lot of games that I never would have. And it helps me recommend games to others that might not want to/have the gaming background to be able to hop into a Halo or Killer Instinct. I have suggested games like Lonely Mountains and Two Point hospital to the hardcore and some casual gaming friends a like. I never would have been able to offer games to the more casual if it wasn't for GP.

Taking that mentality and apply it to the mass market I think makes sense and will indeed get more people in on your service. But I am not sure without a dedicated piece of hardware it will resonate with the more casual fans. I understand thats where Lockhart comes in but it still seems like a big ask. But the key here is that GP's price is low enough that theres enough perceived value from the hardcore and casual a like. For someone like me I am making a killing and saving a ton of money and to the casual even though they might play A game a month, they see $10 as more than a good value.

Gamepass has changed the way I consume games too, though I'm not sure it's all upside. It's also teaching me to try and then dispose of games that I might've persisted with if I'd paid full price for them.

I'm intrigued with the future implications of cheap(er) next-gen hardware like Lockhart and Xcloud streaming to existing devices like phones and tablets. My concern is that the multi-device future may not reward massive investment in the type of single-player games that we've all come to love.

Hopefully there's room for both and the market will just grow exponentially.

 

[Nikana]

Gamepass has changed the way I consume games too, though I'm not sure it's all upside. It's also teaching me to try and then dispose of games that I might've persisted with if I'd paid full price for them.

I'm intrigued with the future implications of cheap(er) next-gen hardware like Lockhart and Xcloud streaming to existing devices like phones and tablets. My concern is that the multi-device future may not reward massive investment in the type of single-player games that we've all come to love.

Hopefully there's room for both and the market will just grow exponentially.

I am not sure if thats a downside. The developer got paid either way where as before, you might have never tried their game to begin with.