AlimNassor
Banned
Nobody liked Carth or Allistar. Eder was pretty chill.
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Pillars of Eternity 2: Deadfire announced (Polygon embargo break?)
- Thread starter Cubas
- Start date
Nobody liked Carth or Allistar. Eder was pretty chill.
Do not get your hopes too high. Tides of Numenera is rather...rudimentary in regards to combat.
Maybe do a Tyranny style introduction to PoE2.
EndcatOmega
Unconfirmed Member
Well, there's still Divinity.
And Battletech- Shadowrun wasn't exactly blowing anyone away with xcom-lite stuff but Hong Kong felt like a step in the right direction and this one seems to have more of a focus on combat.
Yeah I think of Eder like I think of Garrus. Super chill, dependable guy I want by my side with occasional bouts of good dry humor.
I am still super annoyed that Dragon Age: Origins is the only game that followed up on FFXII's gambit system.
Herr Schwarz
Banned
I'll say it again the game needs to go to Dragon Age origins / never winter nights 2 graphics and play formula.
Combat in these games is a load of wonk.
And I highly doubt that its going to be baldurs gate 2, the scope of bg2 isn't going to get replicated anytime soon.
Obisidian have got these 2d isometric games on a production line formula at this point. If Tyranny is anything to go by.
Extremely tight, well produced packages that aren't really pushing the envelope in any direction what so ever except the stories which often disappear up their own butts.
Combat and gameplay however still remain on the back burner because of engine limitations its just another shade of lipstick on the same decades old pig.
Combat in these games is a load of wonk.
And I highly doubt that its going to be baldurs gate 2, the scope of bg2 isn't going to get replicated anytime soon.
Obisidian have got these 2d isometric games on a production line formula at this point. If Tyranny is anything to go by.
Extremely tight, well produced packages that aren't really pushing the envelope in any direction what so ever except the stories which often disappear up their own butts.
Combat and gameplay however still remain on the back burner because of engine limitations its just another shade of lipstick on the same decades old pig.
Might work, but I'm not too sure it's necessary for a sequel. I'd rather have PoE2 pick up right after the first game and let the save game import manage some C&C, but something I really hope they borrow from Tyranny are the lore links where you could just hover over certain phrases or words and get a quick lore dump.
PoE1 really needed that in its opening hours. Glanfathans, Adra, Godhammer, Waidwen, what??
bishopcruz
Member
Disappointed. I actually liked that after PoE obsidian seemed to move away from crowdfunding. They did Tyranny w/o any of that. At least they don't seem to be going nuts on what they are asking for, unlike Double fine and inXile did. Still, I don't like Fig much, KS works perfectly well. More and more though crowdfunding is being used as a marketing campaign to collect pre orders and not a necessity to get the games made.
Lister
Banned
The combat just needs a UI overhaul and possibly a little bit of slower pace to be perfect, IMHO.
- When I pause and tell a character to move somewhere I need immediate feedback as to what path and what issues to get to the path I need to keep in mind. Right now you click and pray that the charcter actually makes it there because there's no feedback to the player. You hit unpause and find that there's a bottleneck or the character stops because of a retaliation attack.
We need a path drawn, a la Xcom, and icons showing things like retaliaiton attacks. We also need better pathfinding and the engine should allow (and preferably add cool animations for) characters passing through each other's space. Characters shimmy past each other, duck, dance around each other, what have you. I shouldn't see two characters just bump into each other and sit there stupidly looking at each other.
- Special actions, abilities and effects should also be more accessible, quicker to deploy. A favorites little bar on top would be nice too.
I also think there should be LESS options, but more meaningful ones. There was a lot of filler in POE1 in terms of abilities and spells. I'd rather there were les sof them, but they were all really interesting and powerful weapons to have.
- Finally the speed, well, the defualt speed of combat was way too damn quick. I played with auto slow combat on, which was a lot more enjoyable and maneagable. I think default speed should only be slightly faster than that with the ability to go even slower, makign the combat a more chill affair for those who prefer that.
- When I pause and tell a character to move somewhere I need immediate feedback as to what path and what issues to get to the path I need to keep in mind. Right now you click and pray that the charcter actually makes it there because there's no feedback to the player. You hit unpause and find that there's a bottleneck or the character stops because of a retaliation attack.
We need a path drawn, a la Xcom, and icons showing things like retaliaiton attacks. We also need better pathfinding and the engine should allow (and preferably add cool animations for) characters passing through each other's space. Characters shimmy past each other, duck, dance around each other, what have you. I shouldn't see two characters just bump into each other and sit there stupidly looking at each other.
- Special actions, abilities and effects should also be more accessible, quicker to deploy. A favorites little bar on top would be nice too.
I also think there should be LESS options, but more meaningful ones. There was a lot of filler in POE1 in terms of abilities and spells. I'd rather there were les sof them, but they were all really interesting and powerful weapons to have.
- Finally the speed, well, the defualt speed of combat was way too damn quick. I played with auto slow combat on, which was a lot more enjoyable and maneagable. I think default speed should only be slightly faster than that with the ability to go even slower, makign the combat a more chill affair for those who prefer that.
GordonHalfman
Member
I wonder what they will do with your character's starting level. PoE was pretty much like D&D in that 5-10 was the most fun level range, with the challenge mostly evaporating at level 11 and 13-15 just going full derp. Even in narrative terms the player has defeated multiple dragons and arch mages so I don't know where you really go from there. I wonder if you get depowered somehow at the start?
Anoregon
The flight plan I just filed with the agency list me, my men, Dr. Pavel here. But only one of you!
I could see them going the BG1-BG2 route and just have the game start with you at level 10 or so.
Lister
Banned
I'm confused by your statements here. Obsidian did not crowd fund Tyranny because it was publisher backed... and guess what, that publisher now OWNS Tyranny.
They are an independent developer and unfortunately, deep, player agency and narrative driven PC RPG's aren't something big publishers with the money to support development of a game like Pillars are interested in right now.
They need the funding to support the development. It's that simple. Moving away form that would likely mean selling the IP, even to hope to have a chance at full backing forma publisher. That's not a good investment for a developer that wants to remain independent.
As for "not liking fig much"... why exactly? This weird anti fig thing is baffling to me. Did kickstarter start a smear campaign or something? There's nothing at all disagreeable abotu a platform that presents more money to it's projects and takes the different approach of curation and allowing actual investments ina game form the public at large (as an OPTION).
Lister
Banned
I'd rather they ditched a class based system altogether and let us pick abilities that we can mix and match instead. But I don't see them doing that.
superdeluxe
Member
Day One in. Love this universe.
I'm not against them using crowdfunding, I think it's a great platform which has obviously worked well for Obsidian in the past, but it's not like the publisher for PoE2 is going to be up in the air. I'm 99,5% sure Paradox Interactive will publish it and will put a lot of their money into it, just like they did with the first PoE. I'm even pretty positive that if Obsidian wanted they could've gotten full funding from Paradox, they're not some small indie publisher anymore and they are extremely receptive to niche stuff like PoE and Tyranny.
On a side note to this, I don't mind if they can largely fund the game by themselves and do a crowdfunding campaign. Well, as long as they aren't hiding that fact but are open with what happens with the money, it would be super scummy to act as if they absolutely need your support to survive but don't. Anyway, my reasoning is that they can get part of their sales up-front, which not only helps fund the development but also helps them gauge interest in the game. This means that they can budget accordingly and decrease the risk of losing a lot of money on a big project that in the end doesn't sell. Which in turn means that they hopefully can keep making games that I like.
More stability in this industry is a good thing, imho.
Lister
Banned
At what cost? That's the issue. Publishers want IP. That is their main source of investment. PAradox might have been interested in putting down money on Pillars, but likely they'd want the Pillars IP, leaving Obsidian in the lurch once the title ships.
Assuming they could have worked out a deal without selling the IP, I'm guessing that deal would not come with as much financial backing. PAradox is also a small publisher too, remember.
I think people severely underestimate how much a game like Pillars costs to develop, nevermind the cost of maintaining a studio the size of Obsidian between game releases. I cna tell you this much: it ain't no 2.2 million dollars. There's a LOT of other money coming in to help, I'm sure. Probably form Obsidian, probably from other investors, maybe ven from a publisher like Paradox. But it's likely just not enough to deliver a game like PoE 2.
Paradox's chief sales guy said they weren't publishing anything when this was first teased. Who knows if he just was saying that 'cause it wasn't announced yet, though. Did we ever find out how much they had to do with publishing POE1? The original announcement just said they were handling distribution and some logistics stuff.
Also Fig is actually better for the developers since they get a bigger share of the money compared to KS which should be the main thing here.
Eder was actually the best character... Agree on Aloth though, and Pallegina seemed interesting but she had very little dialogue and I finished her quest in 10 minutes as I had already unlocked all the necessary areas before starting it. Hiravias and Durance are two I'd definitely want to see return. Liked Hiravias especially because he was actually a funny character in a game that took itself little too seriously at times. GM's story felt like it peaked right after you met her, and never reached those same hights again for me.
It's called real time with pause for a reason.
I agree with your other points, except maybe with the flashy animations. Definitely shouldn't be a priority.
And I gotta agree with Lister. Crowdfunding is the way to go with PoE2. They finally have their very own IP with great niche appeal. Giving it away because some people don't like Fig (???) would be dumb.
MisterShine
Member
Bwuh? Alistair is hugely popular in the DA fandom. Mostly with the female fans I think, but he's definitely up there with the Origins crew.
I seriously doubt Paradox wouldn't have the money to largely fund a game like PoE 2, actually. Sure, they don't have 'Ubisoft-money', but the two games they independently released last year (Stellaris and Hearts of Iron IV) made a massive amount of money and that's not counting the income from the expansions to their older titles, Cities Skylines and Tyranny. And sure, while PoE will probably be more expensive to create than it looks, it doesn't need an AAA-budget either. Honestly, I do not get why you'd think Paradox would abandon Obsidian either, like other publishers did in the past, they have zero history of doing that and have always been extremely supportive of studios like Obsidian who have a certain vision that would be impossible to get funding from by bigger publishers.
And don't be so sure Obsidian wants to stay independent, either. I mean, up until half a year ago they were open to being bought. Something most of their fans would actually love (as long as it's Paradox who does the buying).
My guess is that Obsidian is going the crowdfunding route mainly to recreate the buzz they had with the first game. PoE got a lot of attention from the gaming media, way more than they would otherwise give a modern game in this genre, and my guess is that they want to avoid a Banner Saga 2-like situation where most people don't even know about the existence of the sequel. Tyranny also got much less buzz than PoE and even though they probably reached the audience they wanted to reach, PoE is obviously a much bigger deal and they wouldn't want that one to be lost among the other, bigger games coming out.
bishopcruz
Member
The whole point of these early kickstarer titles was that the market for them needed to be proven. There simple weren't games like PoE or Wasteland 2 out at the time. Old school rpgs could sell but no one was willing to make them because of the risk. So the crowdfunding made sense because they NEEDED it to get made. News flash, Wasteland 2, PoE, Divinity, and others were all big hits. The market has been proven, the developers made their money. I find it kind of silly to go back to the same well again. I didn't like it with Wasteland 2 and I don't like it now. If you MUST, do it like Harebrained schemes and specify that the funds are to expand a new game that is already coming and not to put the onus completely on the fans for the next one.
As for Fig, KS is more convenient for me as a customer, is larger and more established. There are no advantages for me in using fig so I don't. Maybe if eventually there is a game I HAVE to fund then maybe, but as it stands I just don't much care. Then there is also the fact that being on Fig hurts visibility of other titles on KS.
decoyplatypus
Member
So fucking hyped. I actually don't love the premise, but a higher-level campaign is great. And NPC scheduling is exactly the sort of big feature I hoped they'd add to normal iteration to take the solid PoE to the next level.
The only one of these characters I didn't want to return is Aloth. He was boring in the first game and we pretty much got all we could ask for about his past and business. By contrast, Pallegina was also a bit dull in the first game, but we know much less about her, and the Vailian Republics (her home) are set to figure much more heavily in this game. She presents a real opportunity for the writers.
Durance and Grieving Mother were two of the better companions in the first game, but their stories are so tied to the Dyrwood and the events of the first game (GM in particular) that I fully support cutting them for new party members. Plus GM's gimmick can't really go anywhere (as the other party members barely recognize her). Durance is maybe a little harder because he did
and may be interested to see him back. Still a smart cut, in my opinion.
Eder is a totally sweet character. He's got a dry, fatalistic sense of humor that complements all the other NPCs in conversation. He's really the best one to have around for party talk. Plus, given the premise of this game, you kind of have to bring him along.
EDIT: I fucking LOVE that little orlan with the dual pistols on the back of the ship.
The only one of these characters I didn't want to return is Aloth. He was boring in the first game and we pretty much got all we could ask for about his past and business. By contrast, Pallegina was also a bit dull in the first game, but we know much less about her, and the Vailian Republics (her home) are set to figure much more heavily in this game. She presents a real opportunity for the writers.
Durance and Grieving Mother were two of the better companions in the first game, but their stories are so tied to the Dyrwood and the events of the first game (GM in particular) that I fully support cutting them for new party members. Plus GM's gimmick can't really go anywhere (as the other party members barely recognize her). Durance is maybe a little harder because he did
blow up Eothas before
Eder is a totally sweet character. He's got a dry, fatalistic sense of humor that complements all the other NPCs in conversation. He's really the best one to have around for party talk. Plus, given the premise of this game, you kind of have to bring him along.
EDIT: I fucking LOVE that little orlan with the dual pistols on the back of the ship.
Lister
Banned
Sure, but at regular speed it's not uncommon to hit unpause and have an overload of actions happening at once, forcing you to pause and unpause every 250 milliseconds in order to make corrections.
At the game's current slow speed, I was able to set orders, unpause, watch stuff happen for a bit, then pause to change or correct, then watch for abit. With default speed on I found that I was correcting a lot more and lost important action informaiton that had me digging through the log, a lot more often than when in slow combat mode.
Anyway, I woudl still leave the slower and faster options available to cover most tastes.
On the note of missing important information - please, no more permanent/long lasting and super flashy/obscuring spell effects please! The bark skin (I think?) spells was one of the worst. Covered everyone in an effect that made them look like giant, glowing trees! I had a pair of boots that fired it anytime one of my characters was criticalled on everyone in the vicinity. There was no way to see ANYTHING after that for a good 10 seconds of combat time.
bishopcruz
Member
Very much this. A big crowdfunding campaign now gets you in a news cycle, makes you money, and gauges interest. You get at least 2 headlines in the month, and it's all good. Of course that only really seems to work for the biggest titles.
BrokenFiction
Member
Surprise!
decoyplatypus
Member
I don't see the harm in a developer offering me a chance to buy a game I know I am going to want at a discount price (as the digital download tier is invariably below initial retail price) and with the benefit of regular development updates.
robotzombie
Member
I really hope the last picture has "thanks polygon" at the bottom
I guess I just got used to pausing and unpausing every few miliseconds. More options are (almost) always a good thing. You're right.
Yep, this is definitely something they need to improve. The effects look great, but they get way too busy at times.
Plumpbiscuit
Member
LMAO
BrokenFiction
Member
Well done.
Surprise!
Man, Polygon zapped the fun out of this one. Not that we didn't know it was PoE2 but I would have had a lot of questions since it is clear there is a subtitle.
Is this not why fast and slow mode are there? I tend was fine with normal speed and it just felt natural to pause when I wanted to do more than a couple of actions. When things were hectic, I'd drop to slow mode and also pause when necessary. Wasn't an issue for me
Lister
Banned
Yeah you're right. I was satisfied with slow mode, I just think near slow mode should be default as the number one complaint I hear from non RTWP gamers who played/tried Pillars was the hectic pace of combat at normal speed.
I think the complaints would have been less if the default felt closer to slow combat speed. Going back to even BG2 and Icewind Dale, I noticed that Pillars was definitely FASTER than even those games. Just IMHO though.
NegativeCero
Banned
Well, shit. I'm 33 hours into the first game and plenty left to go, plus the DLC.
Baron von Loathsome
Member
It took me nearly 80 hours to see everything, including the DLC, on easy.
I guess though I'm not sure how much the ME and PoE fanbases really overlap.
There is definite overlap, maybe not a ton, but I'm talking more about press space than anything else. Even if it was a totally different game altogether, announcing your crowdfunding campaign on the same day another much much bigger franchises releases something isn't the best. I doubt it will be a big issue, not like it's the release day or anything.
piratepwnsninja
Member
You probably have at least until fall next year to finish.
The map was of very suspect quality if that makes you feel any better =p
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