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[Raven Prime]

OK, when I open it using Chrome on my phone it took me to the start of the video.

You're right, and there's no room for ambiguity, but I find it really hard to understand: it must push the manufacturing costs up compared to screens with an even pixel density. I would have thought this could be accomplished using the optics of the lenses, rather than changing the pixel layout on the OLED screens.

Anyway, thanks for the info. I learned something new today.

Well Sony of course has all the expertise it needs in that regard, as for the actual costs of creating high density spots on a screen I don't have a clue. I can imagine it would increase the price of the screen to a certain extent, but I don't expect it to increase the price more than let's say $15-20 per screen. So in the end the effect is probably pretty negligible.

 

[NotSmartEnough]

Are people going to act surprised or shocked every time we get this info?

To be fair, this thread was a response to a Eurogamer article which had the exact dimensions and connection info; not a huge amount of groundbreaking info, but it's valid in the context of the "wii-sized" misinformation going around.

 

[Baroquemantic]

Probably a brazillion dollars

Spoiler

I must admit. I laughed. Quite loudly, in fact.

Spoiler

Ya did good!

 

[serversurfer]

What a terrible article. We know reprojection is done on the GPU, and we know the box handles the 3D audio and Social Screen stuff. There's no need for speculation at all, and he manages to get it completely wrong anyway. Reducing latency by moving reprojection to the breakout box? Seriously?

 

[Super Wario]

Power supply, more cables and a fan. Okey.

 

[Melchiah]

and why it has a fan.

I'm not a fan of an additional fan.

 

[Kudo]

I do hope Summer Lesson is a launch game for this thing.
Also hopefully Sony makes vertical stand for this processor, I have my PS4 with one so I'd need one for this too..

Actually they should release the PSVR in Glacier White too so I could have matching colours.

 

[RK128]

There's no way they're gonna charge more than a PS4 for a PSVR. That's peripheral suicide.

They could sell it as a TV to people that do not have HD TV's, making people more incited into getting a PSVR and a PS4 together.

I cannot see it working any other way though in selling people :l.

They need to stock VR kits into every retail store prior to launch, have a large launch line up and even if they are calling it another platform, charge it less then the PS4 (200-300 at most).

Otherwise, PSVR will die at retail and will be a lot like the Vita; a platform that does well at first but tanks afterwards, with Sony ditching the pricey device.

 

[kyser73]

Regarding sales:

Sony stated they expect the whole year 1 market for VR to be around the 2.6m mark - that's PSVR, OR & Vive combined.

Using Ass-Number-Generator and assuming an even 3-way split, on a PS4 userbase which by June 2016 may well be nudging 40m, they're expecting an attach rate of around 2% - 800k; sales on a par with what most of Gaf would consider a 'bomba' if it was a game.

 

[Pif]

Regarding sales:

Sony stated they expect the whole year 1 market for VR to be around the 2.6m mark - that's PSVR, OR & Vive combined.

Using Ass-Number-Generator and assuming an even 3-way split, on a PS4 userbase which by June 2016 may well be nudging 40m, they're expecting an attach rate of around 2% - 800k; sales on a par with what most of Gaf would consider a 'bomba' if it was a game.

Source?

How can dev costs be justified for VR only titles with those kind of numbers?

 

[Nikodemos]

Source?

How can dev costs be justified for VR only titles with those kind of numbers?

Most PSVR only games are small budget affairs.

 

[wanderingprostheyltite]

Source?

How can dev costs be justified for VR only titles with those kind of numbers?

Do not expect more than a handful of regular game length titles for VR in its first year. Lots of smaller environment and shorter experiences and multiplayer/social stuff. That plus asset creation will be done at a much simpler scale for many titles due to perf requirements so that offsets some cost as well. Also many devs will be porting their titles between platforms (sans Oculus exclusives) to get a bigger pot to draw from.

 

[Neuromancer]

Depending on what's inside that breakout box, I could see this as actually costing more than $500, especially because Sony isn't really at a place right now to take a loss on selling hardware in order to move units. They need this to make a profit.

Not on the hardware:

We tend to price hardware not to make money from it but to get as many install base so that content can be sold. This is the same kind of thinking in the way we are approaching PlayStation VR.

http://www.digitalspy.com/gaming/in...l-reality-games-need-their-own-rating-system/

Also I find your numbers suspect, no one knows what any of these components are going to cost and you're also speculating about what will be bundled in.

 

[vpance]

I don't think Sony ever stated any concrete VR sales projections numbers.

2.6M sold year 1 would be a massive bomba, combined with Oculus & Vive or otherwise.

 

[Slixshot]

Just gimme a price and gimme a date

 

[Blanquito]

I don't think Sony ever stated any concrete VR sales projections numbers.

2.6M sold year 1 would be a massive bomba, combined with Oculus & Vive or otherwise.

I highly doubt that the three VR companies would consider 2.6M devices sold year one a bomba, especially when you consider the total cost of these devices.

 

[mechphree]

Yeah the investment of the headset and breakout box...definitely 400 for PSVR.
Any lower and I'm surprised....fuck that's gonna hurt the wallet.

It can't come out the gate costing MORE then the hardware it's using to run it. I'd say $299 would be the perfect spot.

I just can't see it selling for any cheaper then that tho TBH.

 

[Pestilence11]

I don't think Sony ever stated any concrete VR sales projections numbers.

2.6M sold year 1 would be a massive bomba, combined with Oculus & Vive or otherwise.

Maybe if they were standalone units but being add-ons I think they would be quite happy with those numbers. Word of mouth and more people being able to try then buy would push more out the door later.

 

[Reallink]

Has there been any rumor or confirmation that this can be used in cinema mode? Allowing you to use the vr in non vr games as a second screen.

It seems like it may be tough to implement universally. I suspect the breakout box would have to have the processing power to render the theater model(s) entirely by itself, cause I don't think Sony have blocked off any GPU reserves like they did RAM and CPU cores. So if some game really abuses the GPU, there's not enough overhead to render the stereoscopic theater environment on top of it, the breakout box would have to do that.

 

[Darryl M R]

PSVR 400 with 1 or 2 free launch games could be a sweet deal.

 

[Omnistalgic]

At this point, I really want to try out Ace Combat, Rigs, and GTSport. So Sony, just tell me how much, so I can start saving man!

 

[FHIZ]

I'm probably going to end up getting one, but man... I really wish the PS4 had more USB ports, particularly in the back of the console.

 

[valkillmore]

PSVR 400 with 1 or 2 free launch games could be a sweet deal.

I'm guessing at least one full free game. Probably RIGS but could also be Eve Valkyrie.

I wonder if Ace Combat 7 will be put for launch...

 

[GreyOcelot]

They could sell it as a TV to people that do not have HD TV's, making people more incited into getting a PSVR and a PS4 together.

I cannot see it working any other way though in selling people :l.

hahaahaha. you're joking, right?

 

[Bowl0l]

i find it funny that i used to wonder if they could sell a Cell processor addon to the PS4 and folks were like NO THATS NOT FEASIBLE and now we literally have a processor in a box as a solution for VR on the PS4.

Go figure

I am willing to pay up to $100 extra for a Cell processor in a PS4 rather than non-stop paying for PS4 version of games...

 

[serversurfer]

I was hoping it would plug into the Camera port and then the Camera into the box as to not take up a valuable USB port.

This is a major concern for me; I was hoping the Eurogamer article would reveal an AUX in and AUX out. I really don't want a USB cable trailing round the front of the PS4 permanently.

There is still hope, even if this is the final design: they could plug the PSVR processor box into the back AUX port, and then put some passive USB hub wiring in the plug to give a through port for the camera. That would keep it tidy and save a USB port.

I felt the same, for the same reasons. However, now the USB connection from the PS4 needs to carry all of the data required to assemble the 3D audio in the breakout box, plus it can optionally carry an additional 1080p30 feed for the Social Screen, over and above the 1080p90/120 that's being sent "directly" to the headset via HDMI. On top of all of that, you have a pair of 1280x800@60Hz feeds coming from the Camera, and likely feeds from its four mics as well. USB3 may simply not be able to handle that much data whizzing back and forth on a single cable, hence the need to connect to discrete ports on the PS4.

Oh, and if you're doing asymmetric play on the Social Screen, in addition to that video feed, the USB would also be carrying at least a separate stereo audio feed, if not full surround sound. So, yeah, lots of data for a single USB cable to carry.

Regarding sales:

Sony stated they expect the whole year 1 market for VR to be around the 2.6m mark - that's PSVR, OR & Vive combined.

Using Ass-Number-Generator and assuming an even 3-way split, on a PS4 userbase which by June 2016 may well be nudging 40m, they're expecting an attach rate of around 2% - 800k; sales on a par with what most of Gaf would consider a 'bomba' if it was a game.

IIRC, that was an IDC estimate that House(?) said seemed like a reasonable and positive prediction, or something like that. Also, I'm not sure the predicted split was ever made public, but they did say PS4 was expected to lead sales among the three.

Source?

How can dev costs be justified for VR only titles with those kind of numbers?

Mostly, due to the high attach rates generated by limited software supply. There may not be many VR users in total, but they will be very hungry for content, so if there's only a dozen good games out there and yours is one of them, chances are good that nearly all VR owners will pick it up. 1M PSVR headsets may not sound like many, but it's a ton if you can get 40%-80% attach rates before the software market starts getting flooded.

 

[SnakeXs]

One thing is certain: People's expectations are so all over the place that whatever the sales and response are, GAF will be hilarious with reactions.

 

[vpance]

I highly doubt that the three VR companies would consider 2.6M devices sold year one a bomba, especially when you consider the total cost of these devices.

Sub sub Vita level sales year one must be considered a bomb, $300+ or not. I think that would be a near Nvidia Shield kind of failure.

 

[NotSmartEnough]

I felt the same, for the same reasons. However, now the USB connection from the PS4 needs to carry all of the data required to assemble the 3D audio in the breakout box, plus it can optionally carry an additional 1080p30 feed for the Social Screen, over and above the 1080p90/120 that's being sent "directly" to the headset via HDMI. On top of all of that, you have a pair of 1280x800@60Hz feeds coming from the Camera, and likely feeds from its four mics as well. USB3 may simply not be able to handle that much data whizzing back and forth on a single cable, hence the need to connect to discrete ports on the PS4.

I hadn't considered the bandwidth constraints.

I'll be really disappointed if I need a permanent USB to the front of the console; my living room isn't going to be winning any interior design awards, but I do try and keep the electronics looking tidy. 2nd best after sharing the AUX port is a neat USB with a 90° connector and a profile that slots into the groove on the PS4 without occluding the air vents.

 

[Neuromancer]

One thing is certain: People's expectations are so all over the place that whatever the sales and response are, GAF will be hilarious with reactions.

Yeah it's going to be chaos. And mostly relief I think.

 

[foolishoptimist]

Regarding sales:

Sony stated they expect the whole year 1 market for VR to be around the 2.6m mark - that's PSVR, OR & Vive combined.

Using Ass-Number-Generator and assuming an even 3-way split, on a PS4 userbase which by June 2016 may well be nudging 40m, they're expecting an attach rate of around 2% - 800k; sales on a par with what most of Gaf would consider a 'bomba' if it was a game.

I think those estimates are ridiculously conservative. Unless the speculation on price($300-$400) here is way off.
At $400 and hardly any games, PS4 has sold 10m+ in year 1.

With 40m PS4s out there, I'd be surprised if they didn't sell 2m PSVRs in the first year. Kinect was cheaper, but still expensive for a peripheral and that sold ridiculously well, with only one or two games that were really good.

I'm easily sold on PSVR, and I'll pay whatever for it. And most PS4 owners I know are definitely interested.
The only way it fails, is if initial software is flatout bad, or the price is way more than we're expecting.

Oculus and Vive are targeting a more High End user/experience, so I'd expect their price to be significantly higher than PSVR. Maybe Oculus won't be too bad with just the controller bundle. But A LOT of people paid $300 for devkits just to be able to get their hands on it, so I still think the estimates are off, even for these.

 

[Living Proof]

Depending on the cost of the Occulus and other VR headsets, it's plausible that Sony could price this higher than the PS4 itself without huge negative buzz. That might be an impossible goal, though, seeing as how the mere thought of it being above $299 is unfathomable to so many people.

Not that I'd be happy to see it launch above that; I just don't think it's as critical to Sony's success in VR as many seem to (of course, seeing Sony's projected numbers a few posts above really nails the disparity some people have for sales compared to a company's projection). I can't even begin to imagine how much profits/losses would be on this product, with all its manufacturing and the general R&D costs and other things I have no insight on, if it sold below $300-- literally no idea, though I could guess they wouldn't be spinning a profit.

Wider adoption would lead to an influx of software and better budgets I'm sure, but Sony can't shoot themselves in the foot if they already feel such a small percentage of consumers would be purchasing this thing in the first place.

Spoiler

If that projection is true, of course, but the point still stands

I'm personally willing to pay only up to a certain amount; I'm reasonably expecting their launch price to be above that. I'm hoping my reasoning is fucking awful and wrong so that I can feel comfortable buying this, anyway.

 

[Mushroomer25]

I have to imagine Sony doesn't expect PSVR to be immediately profitable in the first few years. Hell, the first iteration of the device might totally bomb. But it's an important first step to take if they want to take a leading stance in VR. If they can immediately associate the PlayStation brand with the VR experience, they'll be ahead of the curve as adoption for these devices becomes widespread.

I don't think PSVR will be a worthwhile product until the PS5, to be honest. That'll be the point they can design hardware for the increased load of VR, rather than try to use an already underpowered device to fit the bill. PSVR on PS4 is going to be a novelty product, since the software library will simply never be big enough to justify the inevitable $300+ investment. But that's not a terrible thing. All VR is going to be a novelty for the first few years.

 

[serversurfer]

I hadn't considered the bandwidth constraints.

I'll be really disappointed if I need a permanent USB to the front of the console; my living room isn't going to be winning any interior design awards, but I do try and keep the electronics looking tidy. 2nd best after sharing the AUX port is a neat USB with a 90° connector and a profile that slots into the groove on the PS4 without occluding the air vents.

Yeah, it kinda sucks that there are no standard USB ports on the back, but maybe that complicated the board design too much. In their defense, moving the 3D audio to the breakout box and allowing Social Screen to be fully asymmetric were very recent developments, so perhaps the original plan was for the breakout box to also work as a hub.

Anyway, hopefully they can at least put a right-angle plug on it, so it doesn't jut out so far. You could even route the cable fairly neatly through that little slot.

 

[YoYo Switch]

I wonder if devs could use this box as an optional little performance boost on non VR games

 

[BlastProcessing]

I wonder if devs could use this box as an optional little performance boost on non VR games

That doesn't seem likely.

 

[Durante]

With that in mind, we have to wonder whether this is actually applied by the external processor box - going down this route could reduce latency significantly as opposed to implementing it during rendering.

Erm, no, that's simply not the case, unless you have a rather unique definition of "significantly".

Who is writing this stuff and where do they get their information?

 

[Jack The Nipper]

Seems to be the same mistake microsoft made with kinect.

Pushing it out now and not for ps5 launch could kill a second go

 

[RK128]

hahaahaha. you're joking, right?

Honestly, not really.

If people cannot experience VR or never even heard of the idea before, how are they going to sell the device?

Advertising it as a kind of TV to people can go a long way in making it more attractive to people. If they can get a TV-like device that also has special features for their PS4? That might be enough to sell device without even showing its full potential.

Pushing the PS VR with GameStop Demo stations and it being in retail outlets can go a long way too. The more people use the device, the more willing people will be to shell out 300+ dollars for the device.

 

[benny_a]

Seems to be the same mistake microsoft made with kinect.

Pushing it out now and not for ps5 launch could kill a second go

Sony wishes it could replicate the abysmal failure that was Kinect v1.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

I still see the true potential for VR as being outside of gaming and instead in the social media/smartphone app markets. That of course includes PC too.

I don't think full interaction inside of VR, with VR controls as the only input will be the way to go with this technology. I think it will have to be combined with existing more popular input and control methods, and then we will see some truly incredible user experiences designed for VR. I just feel like the applications for VR in gaming will either be way too gimmicky and will be limited in the types of experiences they can offer.

User Interfaces, however, will be stunning to mindblowing.

 

[RK128]

I still see the true potential for VR as being outside of gaming and instead in the social media/smartphone app markets.

I don't think full interaction inside of VR, with VR controls as the only input will be the way to go with this technology. I think it will have to be combined with existing more popular input and control methods, and then we will see some truly incredible user experiences designed for VR. I just feel like the applications for VR in gaming will either be way too gimmicky and will be limited in the types of experiences they can offer.

User Interfaces, however, will be stunning to mindblowing.

VR for medical, educative, disability support and UI interfaces have giant amounts of potential and as someone who will be teaching by the time VR takes off (in....2018-2019 if everything with college goes well ), I am very excited for my future students using the technology to learn .

But for video games, it can work in a lot of ways, but a lot needs to happen to ensure its not gimmicky, is affordable and worthy of peoples time.

 

[valkillmore]

Seems to be the same mistake microsoft made with kinect.

Pushing it out now and not for ps5 launch could kill a second go

Imagine the embarrassment of selling millions of PSVR units.

 

[DirgeExtinction]

Even if this costs ~$400, it'd most likely still be the cheapest VR headset of them all.

 

[Sub_Level]

The bundle will be

599 US Dollars
599 US Dollars
599 US Dollars

 

[Mikey Jr.]

.......

This thing is going to be $399, isn't it?

 

[PeakPointMatrix]

So with this extra box, the PS4 VR games won't take a hit in the visuals department right? I remember games like Uncharted 2 running in 3D took a massive graphical hit to work.

 

[Barakov]

My price prediction:

$399.99 - Introduction price
$3499.99 - 2016 holidays
$299.99 - 2017 holidays
$249.99 - When PS5 comes out (It's gonna be compatible btw)

That's one hell of a price cut in 2017.

 

[Bowl0l]

The bundle will be

699 US Dollars
699 US Dollars
699 US Dollars

Added $100 for being more realistic.

 

[Mikey Jr.]

Wait, isn't the camera mandatory? It is, right?