Reading comments is how sheep herd together and recruit new sheep. But leave each sheep to judge independently and there won't be as negative a reaction.
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Polygon posts ad/re-worded press release as 'News' & deletes user comments [Removed]
- Thread starter Gowans
- Start date
So it seems the issue is expectation management.
Or you could get over yourself.
I get it. You guys expected more from a gaming website, and gaming journalists in general.
There's your problem. Given sports journalism is barely a rung above, I'm not sure why you guys expect so much.
It's about eyes on pages. Halo 4 is the biggest game releasing this year. It's natural that sites will find any excuse to put Halo 4 in a title.
Removing comments? What did you expect them to do? As I said, expectations the real issue here.
Bomber Bob
Banned
Kotaku legacy
I will have what he is having.
You're so close dude. I know you want to use that word.
Also, because they refused to report on the Florence stuff labeling it as unimportant, while Pizza Hut's Halo Ad takes the top spot in their news section, without so much as a small consideration of "what the fuck are we doing" regurgitating this just because Microsoft sent it over. Yet they claim to be a new string of gaming journalism that does things differently from other sites.
Lord_Nergal
Member
RedNumberFive
Banned
Because they engage in more conflicts of interest than probably most of the sites we've all been railing against. Just because you make a cute video, doesn't make you immune to PR influence. I get that GB is the darling of NeoGAF, so it really shouldn't surprise me to get responses like this. If we're going to call out the enthusiast press (or whatever other manufactured term they come up with), lets at least be consistent.
not_so_special
Banned
someone got a phone call today
SolidSnakex
Member
I'm sure Activision would disagree with that.
Don't ask so many questions. Comments closed.
Does it really matter how the content is being served to the readership though? At the end of the day, Pizza Hut and MS wanted to let people know that there was some free code and they certainly got their message across. Where are the readers that honestly don't understand that this content was organized by marketers within MS and Pizza Hut? I understand the relationship between PR and websites and I understand the relationship between a hobby and a income generating website with paid staff.
And that's the problem, how are you not getting this? The "age of page click/ads" needs to be over for the sake of higher level discourse and writing that isn't blatant ads for the sake of the game journalism industry.
But no, "let's get over ourselves" for your sake because OMG HALO 4!
NervousXtian
Thought Emoji Movie was good. Take that as you will.
If there wasn't the avatar then it's straight an advertisement.
Since there was, it's just a press release.
Perfectly freaking harmless.
If GAF has shown anything lately, it's the straight out contempt for those who cover our hobby.
Since there was, it's just a press release.
Perfectly freaking harmless.
If GAF has shown anything lately, it's the straight out contempt for those who cover our hobby.
Hydrogen Bluebird
Member
If she were an actual journalist, she'd make sure to include quotes and attributions. Oh well.
Haunted
Member
The idea is not that the readers will have to point this out every single fucking time, the idea is for Polygon themselves to recognise that this kind of regurgitated press release dressed up as news (as an aside: is it even dressed up if no one can even be bothered to change the original wording?) does not live up to their own standards and stop doing this on their own. Or at the very least clearly mark it as a press release within its own category instead of pretending it's a piece of content from Polygon to be posted as news.
It would be nice to see some kind of learning effect here, some self-betterment coming out of this whole issue. Respect and trust have to be earned.
ThusZarathustra
Member
I don't expect anything remotely like objectivity or detachment from GiantBomb.
If their How to Build A Bomb videos and editorial approach and funding sources were like or identical to those of Ploygon's I'd have very different expectations of them. Plus there is the whole history of all of the writers involved to take into account as well.
They operate very differently with very different goals and attitudes. Do you really not get that?
He was the reason I had to stop listening to the podcast. So defensive, especially when a listener would call their qualifications as "journalists" into question.
No the same happened when I was getting quotes on car insurance online. The ads "knew" and started showing ads for progressive after I visited progressive.com. I guess that polygon artical was a good as visiting pizzahut.com.
Haunted
Member
edit: it's not a nice thing to say, but a lot of these problems come from the inexperience of the people writing. Not inexperience in covering games, but a lack of proper journalistic education and training. Journalism is a profession that, like any other, has to be learned. One doesn't simply fall into being a journalist because you like typing away on your keyboard. When the most basic standards of sourcing, correct attribution and ethical ground rules aren't adhered to, no shit you're going to get into some trouble with readers who expect more than high school newspaper levels of reporting.
RedNumberFive
Banned
It seems you can't separate your love for a website from their behavior. They are acting consistently with the practices that we've been criticizing in these threads. It doesn't matter what their attitude or goals are, you're just providing more rationalizations and excuses. Either you think this poor behavior is OK, or it isn't. The GB crew isn't exempt just because you prefer them over other gaming personalities.
I NEED SCISSORS
Banned
Except I didn't say that.
I want game journalists to approach all games with a moderate mentality. They should want to like a game, but also be very willing to criticize where appropriate. For the public, being very excited for a game is a good thing - but in the critical arena of journalism, especially reviews, it has little place. Their job is to inform, not regurgitate what we are feeling. Excitement from a journo is acceptable in a big reveal, a featurette, or a preview (although I still expect honest reporting at all times). But things must definitely get serious for a review, which the McElroy spinning video was preceding.
It's a hard thing to avoid, i'll admit, especially for a game like Skyrim. I'll say that multi-perspective reviews are probably the best bet for presenting a balanced opinion by weeding out personal bias. That shouldn't be a problem for Polygon since they love priding themselves on their collective of writers and their site already supports multiple scores for multiplatform games.
legacyzero
Banned
WAT.
Cerebral Assassin
Member
That smacks of hyperbole, everyone who regularly visits GB knows exactly which companies employees(either PR or actual developers) are friends of the Staff there(how do we know? Because they put them in front of the camera ) & therefore an informed decision can be made on whether you wish to trust them when they cover games by those companies.
Jeff is also one of the few journalists who has confirmed that certain parts of the industry are influenced by PR(unlike the vast majority of journalists who are maintaining that isn't true),& that it is an issue that he regularly thinks about.
Now I'm not saying that they are some sort of role model for the industry but they are pretty transparent(they mention if they are on a trip in their previews & they have mocked PR campaigns in the past).
VibratingDonkey
Member
Haha, "riling up negativity".
Oh well, they did remove the article from the front page and are not trying to cover up having written that stupid reply in the comments which they have locked down.
So kudos for that, I guess?
Oh well, they did remove the article from the front page and are not trying to cover up having written that stupid reply in the comments which they have locked down.
So kudos for that, I guess?
Lord_Nergal
Member
So when is Chris Grant going to come in here and rationalize their stance shift?
Haven't you heard about the new promo? Your order at Pizza Hut® now comes with 2 months of GAF Gold™.
Get complaining to Polygon then as they believe it doesn't meet their high standards.
To be clear: I've got no problem with people attacking polygon over the quality of the article. (it WAS lazy for a site talking about "changing the industry") But people attacking them for posting anything that comes from a press release (saying they've been paid, lacking integrity, in PR pockets) is just kind irrational and unhelpful to the greater discussion of quality reporting.
We will see this on Polygon tommorow.
That's fine, and if you can come up with another way (or multiple ways) for a website to make money to pay staff, I'd be all ears!
Follow the money.
Hydrogen Bluebird
Member
This. I agree especially as someone who took journalism courses in college.
And this has also been mentioned in this editorial.
RedNumberFive
Banned
It's great that Jeff thinks about it, but that's a pretty passive decision. Stepping up and doing something about it is another matter. Telling everyone how gross this PR stuff is, then engaging in it like an all-you-can-eat buffet doesn't negate the fact that you're part of the problem. I think you're letting your love of Giant Bomb color your opinions on this matter.
The "one strike you're out" mentality of internet idiots is kind of entertaining though.
ThusZarathustra
Member
Holding everyone to broad brush standards rather than taking things on a case by case basis and carefully evaluating the merits of individual situations is a hallmark of poor critical thinking.
Ignoring the insanity of the comment censorship, this is the best point in here. It's one thing to give readers a heads up about the release date of a major game, though that's the sort of information that'll disseminate on its own these days without the help of the press.
But this is a mere promotion, which is straight up advertising by any definition of the word. Every gaming website on the internet already has a space for that sort of content, and it isn't the news column. Polygon and co., try to have at least the slightest bit of discernment about when you're being used.
RedNumberFive
Banned
Except for the fact that they engage in the same behaviors and blatantly ignore the ethics and conflict of interest precedents set by their parent company. I get it, they're your Internet buddies and can't be criticized.
bigdaddygamebot
Member
I give them some credit. They have backpedaled which is good but their initial way of handling the entire situation was really poor. Like...really.
They could have positioned it a little less imperiously but hey...it's a big step for them.
Well, people are upset after the whole Wainwright situation, and I believe there's good reason for that. I've personally loved the entire discussion, and I think that there's a chance it got through to at least one person in the industry. But just taking it out on this kind of stuff is only going to hurt the legitimacy of the conversation. Yeah, Polygon has egg on their face for sub-par reporting (and subsequent removal of their comments), but there's nothing corrupt here. Just laziness. Polygon brought the quality criticism on themselves by proclaiming to the world, in a full documentary, that they would be "raising the bar" for the entire games journalism industry.
My problem is that you set impossible standards for the industry when you say they can't take anything from a press release. That's how every major news outlet in the world gets most of their info.
ThusZarathustra
Member
Criticize them all you like, man. I never asked you not too.
As for myself, I'll hold folks to the standards they set up for themselves, which, in both the cases of GiantBomb and Polygon I have always done and will for the foreseeable future continue to do.
If you want to try to hold GiantBomb to the standards set up by Polygon for Polygon rather than those set up by GiantBomb for GiantBomb, that's entirely your business.
Yeah, it's not like we expected any different from the self-proclaimed paragons of gaming journalism. The ones that have previously received a considerable sum of money by Microsoft. And especially after the events that happened last week.