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[The God]

How has Sony suddenly become slightly arrogant again?

I think he's referring to the whole Sony expecting you to buy the console you already own again thing

 

[thuway]

The Neo should be good enough to run any games with modern graphics at 60fps 1080p. I'd assume basically on par with a 970. For scorpio to go beyond that, it must mean that they're targeting higher resolution or VR support.

Well it sounds like Scorpio is taking a legitimate stab at 4K 30 FPS visuals in AAA games. Depending on the CPU/RAM configuration it could be a very beefy upgrade for normal multiplats.

 

[dragonelite]

Ya except that PS4 has the PSVR, and the built in playerbase. I don't think adding more power is going to convert the community back to MS's favor. They need to do something big, game changing. I guess Oculus is their bet on that front, but it seems like Vive is winning people over on PC. I think merging Xbox and PC gaming is the smartest thing they've done since the 360. That might actually win over the hardcore gaming audience more than any power advantage.

I would rather have a VR platform that can work on multiple platforms.
Given the costs associated with a VR headset.

 

[Sydle]

I'd love to see what kind of endgame Microsoft has if this is real. Let's hope they can properly explain it at E3...

Here you go...

Our goal in gaming at Microsoft is to allow people to play games wherever they are and we understand people love to play games on television. And console with its capability around instant on, its robustness as a consumer electronics device, and the role it plays in the household with the big 60" plasma on the wall allowing to play hi-fidelity games with a ton of people in the room is pretty important to millions and millions of people and I think this generation of consoles is showing that.

At the same time we know that there are billions of people that play games across all devices and today the worlds are segmented. You don't have linkage really between the different places where your customers are playing their games, so as we've made this evolution with Windows and as we've thought about our vision for gaming the thing you should keep in your head is I think about our customers as customers on Xbox Live. And I think about those customers moving from screen to screen to screen and what we want to bring to those people is an understanding that the games you own are the games you own and you're able to play those games on any device that you want to play them. You're able to bring your social network of friends together. You want to use the input that you want to use to play the game you want to play. If you want to play on your laptop, if you want to play on your desktop, or if you want to play on your television, if you want to play on your phone, it's a world we want to enable across all Windows 10 devices, including the Xbox. - Phil Spencer, March 2015

Finally, we will build the best instantiation of this vision through our Windows device platform and our devices, which will serve to delight our customers, increase distribution of our services, drive gross margin, enable fundamentally new product categories, and generate opportunity for the Windows ecosystem more broadly. We will pursue our gaming ambition as part of this broader vision for Windows and increase its appeal to consumers. We will bring together Xbox Live and our first-party gaming efforts across PC, console, mobile and new categories like HoloLens into one integrated play. - Satya Nadella, June 2015

 

[AlfonzoPalutena]

The gap between the PS3, 360, and Wii gen to the PS4, XBONE, and Wii U seemed a lot longer than the one to PS4K, "Scorpio", and the NX.

Are PS4K and Scorpio just souped up current gen consoles or new platforms altogether?

PS4K and Scorpio are supposed to be refreshes of the current console generation. Think about DS to DSi, or 3DS to New 3DS.


The NX is of course the new generation (for Nintendo) and Iwata's comments about the NX seem to suggest they will some day refresh the NX as one refreshes their iOS devices. Apps, games, and content carry over, but the hardware can be upgraded, like the PS4K and Scorpio

 

[therealbigrich]

This really makes me think couldn't someone put a 1070 in a box and be able to run most games at 4k.I know I run games at 4k with my 980 ti not all at 60 fps but it seems possible to have a box for 500 maybe 400 thats 4k capable .

 

[brokenbeans]

No slim for me then, waits...

 

[dragonelite]

I'd love to see what kind of endgame Microsoft has if this is real. Let's hope they can properly explain it at E3...

I think Microsoft wants the Xbox platform to compete against steam.
Get more people into the Xbox ecosystem by offering crossbuy and reporting
active live members. I guess ad companies like that more then sold through consoles.

Not sure if they will split the windows marketplace between normal apps in the store
and AAA games in the xbox ecosystem.

 

[Granadier]

This thread isn't locked?

 

[FLAguy954]

the same for me, this just seems like a major stupid decision, one where both MS and sony are literally alienating all their early adopters and fans of their brand, in my honest opinion

It looks like you are too hung up on the hardware aspect of things where really, the end game for Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft is cultivating a continuous ECOSYSTEM across multiple hardware. The existence of these new consoles alienates no one.

 

[Wagram]

1.5-2 TFLOPS is parity to some here. Haven't heard a better joke all year.

 

[CrispyBoar]

This thread isn't locked?

Sadly, no. Modbot should come in & end this insanity.

 

[Sjefen]

The simple reason the Xbox 360 got a foothold last gen is because Microsoft did some things well AND Sony messed up big time.

Unless arrogant Sony screws up, nothing will change. But let's be fair, Sony is back to being slightly arrogant again.

I think they have been very open with their customers this gen, what did you find arrogant?

 

[On Demand]

1.5-2 TFLOPS is parity to some here. Haven't heard a better joke all year.

Don't even know why it's being compared. Nothing is set and confirmed for either.

 

[HanzSnubSnub]

If true, 6 TFLOPS is not going to be cheap.

My concern is Sony's response. Will they release a console in fall 2018 to combat Scorpio? How will devs cope with the influx of hardware. Console wars can't be good for the industry.

 

[-ImaginaryInsider]

What's interesting is Sony hasn't even officially announced anything yet, so they do have time to tweak things like their launch window and potentially even the final hardware.

 

[captainraincoat]

all about marketing and if Sony missteps like MS did it could be all downhill. Hell I am even question Neo and thinking I rather get more mileage out of my ps4 and upgrade to scorpio. Plus MS may have the power influence that Sony has had this generation. We cant forget how many digital foundry topics go up and all of us talk about power and what % ps4 is stronger compared to Xbox

Dont think ms really cares if sony is dominating sales...ms own goal posts are their last console and its exceeded that goal

Going after the pc user base is a much bigger prize than winning the sales war and by utilizing their os (which is in pretty much every pc in the world) they could really open the door in term of gaming if done right.

 

[thuway]

1.5-2 TFLOPS is parity to some here. Haven't heard a better joke all year.

Performance differences are eerily repeating history. The current delta between PS4 and Xbox One is a roughly 30% power difference.

Neo is rumoured to have 4.2 TF and Xbox Scorpio will have anywhere from 5-6 TF. The performance gain Scorpio will have over Neo is 30% at 6 TF. The consoles have just reversed where Xbox One is Neo and PS4 is Scorpio.

 

[BKG]

What's interesting is Sony hasn't even officially announced anything yet, so they do have time to tweak things like their launch window and potentially even the final hardware.

If the rumors are true and they are launching this fall, it would be impossible to change things as it would already be in motion.

 

[AmyS]

If true, 6 TFLOPS is not going to be cheap.

My concern is Sony's response. Will they release a console in fall 2018 to combat Scorpio? How will devs cope with the influx of hardware. Console wars can't be good for the industry.

Nope. PS5 in 2020.

Newer and newer consoles aren't going to release that quickly.

 

[etta]

No slim for me then, waits...

Yea a really cool slim design would be the only way I'd get it before the Scorpio I think.

 

[Granadier]

What's interesting is Sony hasn't even officially announced anything yet, so they do have time to tweak things like their launch window and potentially even the final hardware.

Neither have Microsoft.

This is all speculation, and yet internet fists are flying.

 

[On Demand]

If true, 6 TFLOPS is not going to be cheap.

My concern is Sony's response. Will they release a console in fall 2018 to combat Scorpio? How will devs cope with the influx of hardware. Console wars can't be good for the industry.

And to think Nintendo will be doing this too. Like i don't see how any of this is going to go smoothly.

 

[ElTorro]

Would be great, especially if they also significantly improve the CPU. I'd love to see them outdo each other in shorter cycles.

 

[thuway]

Neither have Microsoft.

This is all speculation, and yet internet fists are flying.

There's nothing wrong with speculation. PlayStation Neo specs are leaked and out in the wild. Scorpio discussions are now being had with 3rd party developers. It's only human to compare what-if scenarios.

 

[Kieli]

I uh.... don't believe it.

It'd mean AMD would have something even more impressive on the desktop side if they can squeeze 6TFLOP into a small console package at a reasonable price (e.g. $599).

 

[CrispyBoar]

What's interesting is Sony hasn't even officially announced anything yet, so they do have time to tweak things like their launch window and potentially even the final hardware.

Neither have Microsoft.

This is all speculation, and yet internet fists are flying.

Plus people like myself keep telling them the realities as to why power wasn't exactly the reason that people have picked up the PS4.

But let them continue to think so.

 

[Sjefen]

The hardware races, its all about those teraflops

 

[thuway]

People like myself keep telling them the realities as to why power wasn't exactly the reason that people have picked up the PS4.

But let them continue to think so.

I agree that power isn't the sole reason PlayStation as a brand is successful, however, Microsoft will do their best to play up the power card whenever they market and announce Scorpio. This is something Sony has to prepare for and get their ducks together to minimize any negative impact.

 

[dragonelite]

Performance differences are eerily repeating history. The current delta between PS4 and Xbox One is a roughly 30% power difference.

Neo is rumoured to have 4.2 TF and Xbox Scorpio will have anywhere from 5-6 TF. The performance gain Scorpio will have over Neo is 30% at 6 TF. The consoles have just reversed where Xbox One is Neo and PS4 is Scorpio.

Yeah it seems like it, you also see the same kind of comments from both camps.
I know because i also made them when durange(weaker) specs got leaked,
maybe they have time to change the hardware or its not about performance etc.

 

[What A Time To Be Alive]

Uhm...like I've been saying for ages now, power isn't the only factor here. People keep trumpeting that power is THE reason PS4 is outselling XBO, and that isn't true. PS4 is outselling it because it has the games people want to play, both 3rd party and exclusive. It has the online people want, and it's where their friends are. Marketing is also a big factor. It's not like Sony is used to having the most powerful system each hardware gen either, in fact this is the only one where they clearly have had that advantage. Every other gen they've had to rely on things other than power to pull people in, you think they're gonna forget all of that over the span of 3 years?

Whether Scorpio is more powerful than Neo really doesn't matter except for a sliver of tech-obsessed fanboys/fangirls. We're already at a point of diminishing returns in visual fidelity and an extra teraflop or two of raw processing power isn't going to make the difference between the two systems like SD to HD, not at the slightest. Things like artstyle are going to play a much bigger role and if Uncharted, R&C and Dreams are indicators, Sony has some of the best artists in the industry.

What Scorpio really needs is a software reason to make people take notice. XBO hasn't really flourished with a lot of in-house 1st party content, and MS has been notorious for using the same tentpole franchises over and over (like Nintendo, but without the nostalgia on their side).

They need to come strong on the software front w/ Scorpio and need to manage the PC versions of those releases very carefully; even if Scorpio ends up being more capable than any PC on the market at the time of its release that'll quickly cease to be the case and if all of Scorpio's exclusives are on PC that's a loss of a major incentive to get the platform for a decent chunk of people, particularly the early adopters.

This would make sense if you don't throw casuals in the mix but the fact of the matter is that majority of the people who are buying or at least bought the PS4 is because whatever friend told them "Go get a PS4 it's way more powerful and plays games better than Xbox One" the games thing is moot since the majority of people will be playing 3rd party titles anyway. At most exclusive-wise they would pick up Uncharted 4, maybe Horizon: Zero Dawn if it get's pushed hard enough. The online thing doesn't make sense because the online features are basically the same and I would still say Xbox Live is a bit better than PSN and the friends thing makes sense now when snowballed from the "Power" point.

The one thing I will agree with is marketing which is something that has pushed PS4's like crazy, especially that Call of Duty marketing deal but all of this is based from the power difference (and the launch debacle of the Xbox One that made a lot of people in the Xbox ecosystem lose trust in the Xbox and switch platforms).

If this upgraded Xbox ended up being more powerful than the PS4 "Neo" or whatever it was, I feel it would make more of a dent (especially in America) than people think it will.

 

[Orniletter]

Plus people like myself keep telling them the realities as to why power wasn't exactly the reason that people have picked up the PS4.

But let them continue to think so.

Power was definitely among the most important reasons.

As were price, messaging and Nintendo/MS releasing unappealing systems.

It had very little to do with SCE as a games publisher (which just released it's first blockbuster 2.5 years into the generation).

 

[Bear Force One]

and that's the reason why this news still makes me believe that they will soft-exit the console market in a few years from now. I just can't see what MS can do about Sony WW-mindshare-dominance but banking on Sony fuck-ups. Power alone just won't cut it...they're late to every party and have a major deficit in the 1st party software department.

This seems fairly clear to me too. Time will tell.

 

[Compsiox]

I agree that power isn't the sole reason PlayStation as a brand is successful, however, Microsoft will do their best to play up the power card whenever they market and announce Scorpio. This is something Sony has to prepare for and get their ducks together to minimize any negative impact.

Free multiplayer again. That's how they'll do it.

 

[bobbytkc]

I think he's referring to the whole Sony expecting you to buy the console you already own again thing

...what?

 

[HanzSnubSnub]

And to think Nintendo will be doing this too. Like i don't see how any of this is going to go smoothly.

Exactly. Consoles worked well in the past because we had distinct generations with similar hardware. Before the PC comments come flooding in, it works on PC because Windows is a universal OS. Xbox and PlayStation (and Ninty) both run different OS', and if the hardware is constantly changing, how will devs be able to successfully manage all these different hardware and software configurations.

I honestly can't see this going well in the long term.

 

[StoneSarge89]

6TF Scorpio Fall '17 sounds just about right for me. Doubt people were going to buy many this fall and if the difference between Neo Spring '17 4.something TF and Scorpio 6TF is worth the wait for someone looking at power.

One more thing I am thinking of is that if they market the fact that you won't really need the new console to keep on playing games and that when you upgrade, everything will be there, kind of like on the new iPhone, we might see a freeze in market shares.
I mean I've built a serious collection of Xbone games, why would I screw it all and go Neo? (only valid in the case that I sell my Xbone to get a Neo, I know).

 

[Granadier]

Marketing is literally the only thing that has swayed this console generation to be one sided. If you don't believe that then the marketing has worked successfully on you.

 

[AmyS]

Mmmm.

 

[blakep267]

Marketing is literally the only thing that has swayed this console generation to be one sided. If you don't believe that then the marketing has worked successfully on you.

Well marketing and price( when I say price I mean price the first year and in other territories) And the fact that both consoles play 90% of the same games.

 

[Compsiox]

Mmmm.

Mom?

 

[thuway]

6TF Scorpio Fall '17 sounds just about right for me. Doubt people were going to buy many this fall and if the difference between Neo Spring '17 4.something TF and Scorpio 6TF is worth the wait for someone looking at power.

One more thing I am thinking of is that if they market the fact that you won't really need the new console to keep on playing games and that when you upgrade, everything will be there, kind of like on the new iPhone, we might see a freeze in market shares.
I mean I've built a serious collection of Xbone games, why would I screw it all and go Neo? (only valid in the case that I sell my Xbone to get a Neo, I know).

You are the perfect candidate to buy an Xbox Scorpio. People who currently own PS4's will have a harder time moving to Scorpio because of the exact reason you mentioned- all the legacy titles/online play will transfer from one machine to the next.

 

[c0de]

Performance differences are eerily repeating history. The current delta between PS4 and Xbox One is a roughly 30% power difference.

Neo is rumoured to have 4.2 TF and Xbox Scorpio will have anywhere from 5-6 TF. The performance gain Scorpio will have over Neo is 30% at 6 TF. The consoles have just reversed where Xbox One is Neo and PS4 is Scorpio.

Eh? But the difference doesn't work in percentages... The 30% is a difference worth a whole ps4 in “best“ case. This will make a difference like it is doing now, even more so for sure.

 

[Who]

I feel for developers in this new console future.

As if their jobs weren't tough enough already.

Marketing is literally the only thing that has swayed this console generation to be one sided. If you don't believe that then the marketing has worked successfully on you.

Well I mean there's marketing and then there's facts.

The PS4 was cheaper and more powerful from day one.

 

[Cipherr]

Would they really be ending the PS4 > Xbone narrative if the base models continue to drive the console market?

The top end rules discussion amongst enthusiasts. Always has. Look at PC gaming. People want screenshots and performance info from top of the line or near it, not necessarily running things on medium.

Some folks will inquire, but for the most part people don't judge tech powerhouse games on how they look on Medium and Low, they talk about the game at its max potential or near it. If they launch an Xbox more powerful than the strongest PSX, I would expect conversations here and on other sites to center around PS4K and Scorpio.

Not that it matters. Its probably more power for the sake of VR. And I personally think console gamers are getting it up the chute on this mid/early gen new hardware stuff. $10 N64 expansion packs are one thing (And not necessarily a good thing)... But increases of 2 to 4 multiples in power? Wow...

I haven't seen many primary console gamers complaining though, so they seem to know their base.

 

[Compsiox]

I feel for developers in this new console future.

As if their jobs weren't tough enough already.

Old console versions will be abandoned within 2 years. Calling it.

 

[GifGafIsTheBestGaf]

What a crazy month, E3 is gonna be good. Gonna watch MS show this year it seems.

BTW , I think I already filled my bingo card

 

[Granadier]

Well marketing and price( when I say price I mean price the first year and in other territories) And the fact that both consoles play 90% of the same games.

This is marketing though since shortly before E3, Sony was still looking to package the Eye in with their console and the prices would have been on par. They chose not to and leveraged the lower price in their unveiling.

It's all marketing. That's the only reason.

 

[thuway]

What a crazy month, E3 is gonna be good. Gonna watch MS show this year it seems.

BTW , I think I already filled my bingo card

I have a nagging suspicion Microsoft will not be talking abotu Scorpio in depth at their E3 press event. Why would they publicly acknowledge a machine that is > year away.

 

[Nightengale]

I have a nagging suspicion Microsoft will not be talking abotu Scorpio in depth at their E3 press event. Why would they publicly acknowledge a machine that is > year away.

Well, if the rumours are right, it's in response to Sony's Neo being ready in 2016.

We've seen what a one year "lead" can do for competition, 360 vs PS3.