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[Game2Death]

Although I wonder how high the attach rate for the move will be. Or if people will only buy 3 games and never pick it up again.

 

[gregor7777]

For all we know this could be a case of stuffing the channels.




Not a chance this is to consumers.

Exactly. Expect this number to be stagnant for quite some time. This PR means retailers have a shit ton of stock to sell through the holidays. Which is good for Sony and they get to put this report out about how many they've sold to retailers.

IMO we won't see many reorders until well into next year.

 

[Cosmonaut X]

Sod all marketing budget Vs Half a billion dollars.

I think Sony are doing exceptionally well with an average retail line up and sod all marketing.

Uh, that's overstating things quite a bit - at least here in the UK. Move has been getting a solid ad push on TV, including some fairly high-profile ad slots, and even if it doesn't match up to Microsoft's massive marketing spend, it hardly qualifies as "sod all".

 

[zoukka]

I don't have a problem with them, Hell, I even bought a Move. Mostly at this point im' just depressed at the lack of creativity shown in motion gaming overall. Im' really starting to doubt whether there are any really good applications for it with the current level of tech available.

The tech is here now on every platform. If the shit doesn't fly blame the industry, not the devices.

 

[TheOddOne]

It always surprises me that threads like this require pages of clarification. At least, it surprises me when the info in the OP is so clear. And of course, the qualification that it's sold to retail goes without saying...or should do.

Well they could have just put it in the PR.

 

[Neuromancer]

Microsoft becoming 3rd party etc etc

 

[sajj316]

Plan to get one (or four) for Christmas with EyePet for my daughter

 

[Elios83]

Sorcery might be one of bigger games really cant wait to see it again.

Sorcery is nice but they need to get big IPs on board supporting this.
For example a big JRPG in Japan with interesting Move support. I don't know something like Nino Ku Ni, Versus XIII, Dragon Quest X going multiplatform with Move support :lol :lol
Something like Killzone 3, Metal Gear Solid Rising in the west.


And for people calling channel stuffing........the same people said the same thing when they announced 2.5m units....so I guess retailers ordered an other 1.5m units without having sold their previous stock What I can say is that I've never seen this thing in huge stock anywhere.. at the moment is hard to find, you have to ask if they have it, when it arrives in most stores at least here in Italy.

 

[gcubed]

huh? How? It's entirely plausible seeing as a few weeks back we had a Sony PR release telling us they had shipped 2.5 million PlayStation Move controllers. Like I said it's hard to say how well Move is actually selling on shipped numbers alone.

stuffing the channels is the shittiest excuse that is trotted out constantly, you aren't even trying. As someone else said, there aren't piles of it sitting on shelves... yes, its under 4.1 million sold to consumers but its successful. period. Would you feel more comfortable if they said sold to consumers? As its meaningless as there is no independent sales tracking outfit publicly releasing accessory numbers currently.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Well they could have just put it in the PR.

It is in the PR, people are just reading into it what they want

 

[supermackem]

Now let me use my kinect on ps3 with bluray functions and let me use my move on 360 and it would be win win.:lol

 

[gofreak]

Exactly. Expect this number to be stagnant for quite some time. This PR means retailers have a shit ton of stock to sell through the holidays. Which is good for Sony and they get to put this report out about how many they've sold to retailers.

IMO we won't see many reorders until well into next year.

It surprises me there was this level of reorder after the 2.5m PR if sell through was as low as some were speculating.

It's hard to say though, cos some people say the standalone controllers are still hard to get. We'll probably get our next update in January, when we'll get full shipment numbers for the quarter...we'll see then how much subsequent shipment there's been.

Well they could have just put it in the PR.

What it's actually referring to as being sold (the controller - including but not exclusively bundles, not including cams, not including nav controllers) was very clearly stated in the OP and yet still there's confusion about that end of things :lol I know the 'sold to retail' qualification isn't explicit, but you can take it as read when nothing is said.

 

[Paracelsus]

Exactly. Expect this number to be stagnant for quite some time. This PR means retailers have a shit ton of stock to sell through the holidays. Which is good for Sony and they get to put this report out about how many they've sold to retailers.

IMO we won't see many reorders until well into next year.

The 2.5 figure stagnated for about a month, I guess we have to wait for the post-holidays shipment for whatever slowdown.

 

[ShogunX]

It always surprises me that threads like this require pages of clarification. At least, it surprises me when the info in the OP is so clear. And of course, the qualification that it's sold to retail goes without saying...or should do.

How anyone can read from it that it's just bundles, or is 4.1m consumers, or is sold to consumers, or whatever... is beyond me. It's very clear what the statement is saying.

Because people only see the number and dont understand the difference between shipped and sold. Had this been sold to consumers then holy shit minds would be blown.

 

[iammeiam]

Well it all boils down to sale through. We know Japan hasn't really been hit. We also know that as of the end of October in the US best estimate of actual sale through is 400k or so. So take that 4.1-400k and that leaves 3.7 million(3.6 maybe with Japan..not sure) for November US and Europe since launch. Perhaps we will get an updated sale through figure post Nov NPD. Seems like it maybe a hit in Europe not as much in the US. Perhaps the opposite of Kinect at this point.

Sold to retailers is definitely not interchangeable with to-customers, though (see: PSP Go), and the presence of an extremely carefully worded press release in response to the recent Kinect one invites skepticism.

The one Move item that seems to consistently sell out is the standalone wand, which would also appeal fairly heavily to people who already have Move. There are no shortages of PS3 console bundles with Move packed in, and a quick check makes it look like the Starter pack is pretty available, too.

If the sell-through number is extremely impressive, it's odd we didn't get that. If 4.1 million is sell through, it's odd they wouldn't explicitly state it. But PR is generally slanted, so speculating on what were not being told is at least interesting.

 

[tzare]

so sony sales always mean shipped and MS are sold to consumers. i understand

 

[Crisco]

Exactly. Expect this number to be stagnant for quite some time. This PR means retailers have a shit ton of stock to sell through the holidays. Which is good for Sony and they get to put this report out about how many they've sold to retailers.

IMO we won't see many reorders until well into next year.

Uh, thats exactly what people said after the 2.5 million number came out. And now it's at 4.1 million. The thing is obviously selling through fairly steadily.

 

[Kafel]

WTF Engadget? Everybody tries to play the sale numbers down.

But they are right. In a world in which everyone gives vgcrapz credit you need to give clues at how to read figures.

 

[shwimpy]

If they're stuffing the channels, how about sending some more move controllers to Amazon so I can buy one... Been trying to by a second move controller since launch. >.<

 

[StealthGoblin]

Uh, that's overstating things quite a bit - at least here in the UK. Move has been getting a solid ad push on TV, including some fairly high-profile ad slots, and even if it doesn't match up to Microsoft's massive marketing spend, it hardly qualifies as "sod all".

Fair enough. Its a drop in the ocean compared to what Kinect will be getting though.

It'll be interesting to see what Move can do next year with a full years worth of sales and retail support. Continental EU must be loving Move at present.

 

[BattleMonkey]

Exactly. Expect this number to be stagnant for quite some time. This PR means retailers have a shit ton of stock to sell through the holidays. Which is good for Sony and they get to put this report out about how many they've sold to retailers.

IMO we won't see many reorders until well into next year.

Unlikely, especially because of move wands being bundled with systems. The number is going to continually be going up because of that.

 

[gofreak]

so sony sales always mean shipped and MS are sold to consumers. i understand

Only if there's a qualification that it's sold to consumers. When you get numbers from financials, for example, they're both sold to retail.

 

[Loudninja]

If they're stuffing the channels, how about sending some more move controllers to Amazon so I can buy one... Been trying to by a second move controller since launch. >.<

I got one from the with alot of luck.

Sorcery is nice but they need to get big IPs on board supporting this.
For example a big JRPG in Japan with interesting Move support. I don't know something like Nino Ku Ni, Versus XIII, Dragon Quest X going multiplatform with Move support :lol :lol
Something like Killzone 3, Metal Gear Solid Rising in the west.


And for people calling channel stuffing........the same people said the same thing when they announced 2.5m units....so I guess retailers ordered an other 1.5m units without having sold their previous stock What I can say is that I've never seen this thing in huge stock anywhere.. at the moment is hard to find, you have to ask if they have it, when it arrives in most stores at least here in Italy.

Yeah I agree, there inst mcuh Japan woudld be interested in right now.

 

[CozMick]

Uh, thats exactly what people said after the 2.5 million number came out. And now it's at 4.1 million. The thing is obviously selling through fairly steadily.

There is a reason why another 1.6 million were "sold to retailers"

At least 1.6 million sold to consumers. In a month

 

[Dead Prince]

Don't know what to think of this :lol

 

[gcubed]

so sony sales always mean shipped and MS are sold to consumers. i understand

all console manuf. sales are sold to retailers unless otherwise specifically noted as is in the MS PR blurb.

 

[borghe]

lol.. bought Move launch week. Just bought my first legit move game yesterday (Sports Champions Amazon deal for $19.99). Have messed around with demos, and do own Heavy Rain though haven't had the motivation to go through it again. Still waiting for that killer application (sorry GAF, hated the Tumble demo) besides WiiSports-too. Still, couldn't pass up $20. Been hearing good things about The Shoot I guess. But who am I kidding.. what PS3 time I do have is pretty much consumed by GT5.

 

[VGChampion]

Good. The more Move games the better. People hating on them probably haven't tried them out.

And if you don't think we'll have regular controllers next generation you're deluding yourselves. There are plenty of the games even on the Wii that work better with a CC / GCN controller.

 

[ShogunX]

stuffing the channels is the shittiest excuse that is trotted out constantly, you aren't even trying. As someone else said, there aren't piles of it sitting on shelves... yes, its under 4.1 million sold to consumers but its successful. period. Would you feel more comfortable if they said sold to consumers? As its meaningless as there is no independent sales tracking outfit publicly releasing accessory numbers currently.

A shitty excuse? :lol

Again nobody knows how well Move is selling using only shipped numbers so you calling it successful is jumping the gun. Shipping 4.1 million could easily be channel stuffing if Move isn't flying off the shelves. At this stage we really dont know so it's pretty plausible.

 

[anddo0]

That's more than expected, congrats Sony.. Looks like the Move is really kinectting with the public.

 

[Double D]

I just realized that I own a Wii, 2 Move controllers, and a Kinect. It's worth noting that I would position myself as 'against' the waggle. Wow do I hate myself...

 

[graywolf323]

well I know this much, I was at my local Best Buy last night picking up a PSN card to grab some stuff before the sale ended and they were completely sold out of Move controllers (the individual ones, they still had some PS3 bundles and Sports Champions bundles left)

I was rather surprised honestly

 

[gregor7777]

Hey I hope you guys are right. I want the thing to sell. The last thing we need in the video game industry is another massive failure.

I'm simply implying that the original 2.5 was the launch order, the remaining 1.6 is the holiday order and we won't see another reorder on this scale for a really long time.

The Kinnect number is obviously a lot more impressive, but it's good to see neither flopped.

 

[gcubed]

A shitty excuse? :lol

Again nobody knows how well Move is selling using only shipped numbers so you calling it successful is jumping the gun. Shipping 4.1 million could easily be channel stuffing if Move isn't flying off the shelves. At this stage we really dont know so it's pretty plausible.

let me clarify. Console bundles and move bundles are more then likely helping pad the number... standalone move controllers aren't sitting stagnant... that also being said, you can't use the channel stuffing excuse two times in a row because no matter how it may fit your perceived world view retailers arent going to order items that aren't selling just to make Sony look good

not sure why its worth even arguing, if as gregor said we get no further updates from sony for a while, then its pretty clear, we'll know at the next quarter financials

 

[borghe]

A shitty excuse? :lol

Again nobody knows how well Move is selling using only shipped numbers so you calling it successful is jumping the gun. Shipping 4.1 million could easily be channel stuffing if Move isn't flying off the shelves. At this stage we really dont know so it's pretty plausible.

look at the stores... seriously. it's selling, or at the very least not sitting on the racks 20 deep. has it sold 4.1M? No, of course not.. but if they've shipped 4.1M and there are only 1-3 units sitting on shelves and 2-5 copies of the bundles, clearly they are not "stuffing the channels". It's less retarded to say that even though we don't have hard sell through numbers it still appears to be selling well rather than "sony sent out 4.1 million units shipped and the thing is bombing even though they aren't overflowing on the shelves".

C'mon....

 

[Najaf]

Funny, nobody I know in real life that has a PS3 owns the Move.

 

[FrankT]

Sold to retailers is definitely not interchangeable with to-customers, though (see: PSP Go), and the presence of an extremely carefully worded press release in response to the recent Kinect one invites skepticism.

The one Move item that seems to consistently sell out is the standalone wand, which would also appeal fairly heavily to people who already have Move. There are no shortages of PS3 console bundles with Move packed in, and a quick check makes it look like the Starter pack is pretty available, too.

If the sell-through number is extremely impressive, it's odd we didn't get that. If 4.1 million is sell through, it's odd they wouldn't explicitly state it. But PR is generally slanted, so speculating on what were not being told is at least interesting.

Yea just trying to make sense of the sale through based on what we know in the territories to date. Granted they at least shipped an additional 1.6 million in five weeks somewhere. If we get an NPD figure for November perhaps we will at least have a better idea of the shipped figures for Europe to date.

With that said I'm disappointed in both MS and Sony for no Black Friday numbers/teasing. Clearly Nintendo has won again on that front and both are still playing catch up in this regard by a country mile.

 

[snap0212]

Again nobody knows how well Move is selling using only shipped numbers so you calling it successful is jumping the gun.

But Sony have sold 4.1 million units of Move to retailers, which means that they already have their money for those 4.1 million Moves. How is that not a success for Sony?

 

[LosDaddie]

Nice!

I got to play my nephew's/bro's PS Move (the sports game) over Thanksgiving holiday and was surprised how accurate it was. I won't buy one anytime soon though. Just not interested, same goes for Kinect

 

[Guevara]

I would love to know how many households have:

Kinect: 2.5 million as of recent press release

at least one Move wand: ? somewhere between 1 million (everyone who has Move has 4 wands) and 4.1 million (no one owns more than one Move wand)

Wii: 75.9 million as of 9/30/10

 

[belvedere]

I at least want to try it for the sake of trying it. I already have a PSEye so why not?

 

[tzare]

Only if there's a qualification that it's sold to consumers. When you get numbers from financials, for example, they're both sold to retail.

Well, personally, i never believe what PR say, be it sony MS or nintendo. I am sure both Kinect and Move both sell well, but i am also sure any of them reach those figures.

As for Move related software, i have a move controller (i already had PS Eye because of EoJ) and i haven't bought a single game, because some i already had have been patched. And some that i will buy in the future aren' t move exclusive.like KZ3. So i find it difficult to link software and hardware this time.

 

[Double D]

Funny, nobody I know in real life that has a PS3 owns the Move.

The only person I know in real life that has one is my 65 year old father. Shit's getting creepier the more I think about it.

 

[V_Arnold]

Pretty much. I never doubted Sony for a second. I really hope they port re4 over though

Justjohn, are you real?
Or have you been told that you can be anything? o_o

Well, anyways, 4,1 mill is nice, would have been better to see the sell-trough, because Move software did not exactly set the charts on fire, and I just could not imagine the average consumer to go into a store and pick up a Move without any software to it.

 

[cRIPticon]

Terrible logic for the reason I posted above. The average Wii consumer owns 2 Wiimotes.

So, basically the same number of Kinect households less a $500M marketing spend? Sony wins again.

 

[Anerythristic]

I totally believe they have shipped 4.1 million wands worldwide. Good Job Sony.

 

[apana]

I want to know what Pachter has to say about this because he said previously that the move underperformed. He has access to data?

 

[BARKSTAR]

I remember there was a thread on GAF where myself and a few others said that Move had the potential to sell well and maybe even more so that Kinect due to the casual and core software line up and support and the fact it was more like a traditional controller. We were laughed at pretty hard at the time but this just goes to show that you can never tell which way it'll go in this industry. Sony have done well with this like I thought would be the case.

I still haven't bought any of these yet (have tried Move) until they start showing me a reason why I should own them alongside the Wii. Sure both will come along with a sure fire hit at some point though which may make that purchase decision an easy one.

The motion side of Kinect has never really grabbed me at all yet but the voice and facial recognition could be interesting. Imagine a game like Oblivion where blind men recognise you through voice and where drunks previously met in taverns tried to remember you due to the face recogition etc. Dreaming a little here but could open up some superb possibilities to existing genres if the developers used it right.

 

[BattleMonkey]

But Sony have sold 4.1 million units of Move to retailers, which means that they already have their money for those 4.1 million Moves. How is that not a success for Sony?

In that sense yes, it is very successful so far. We can only claim that it's bad if those numbers slow greatly and don't see much growth, which we wont know till next year.

 

[Neuromancer]

Funny, nobody I know in real life that has a PS3 owns the Move.

I know a guy but he's also the only guy I know who has a Kinect too. :lol

I totally believe they have shipped 4.1 million wands worldwide. Good Job Sony.

:lol