-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Toons
Member
Nah, this movies great.
She never beats the predator head on. She had to trap him... just like arnie did, and she had a bunch of help from her brother and the other idiots getting mowed down by him. Strength factor is literally irrelevant in these movies because all of the predators are orders of magnitude stronger than any human.
She outsmarted the burly old men, took them by surprise and used their weapons against them.
Didn't expect you to have this take on the movie honestly. I mean, if the plot of "a bunch of experienced dues are taken down by an ultra power unknown enemy but the new girl manages to outsmart it" is cringe then we need to retroactively bash Alien.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
She's actually Native American/First Nation... I'm not sure what tribe she belongs to but I remember she claims her dad's tribe (who is a legendary Native American stuntman and actor).
No, we don't need to retroactively bash Alien because of a shitty streaming movie of the week.
Toons
Member
Bruh.
She doesn't physically overpower any of them. She invaded when they were packing up to leave, the first guy was free.
Everyone else she slashes in the leg or something first then hits em again to finish them off. A bunch of 50+ year olds taken by surprise and being outmanueavered by someone way more agile than them. Its not at any point a battle of strength, or numbers because they are just figuring out what's happening and thats why she wins.
I mean cmon guys. We got THIS 15 years ago.
If uma Thurmans 180 lb ass can take down 88 grown adult trained ninjas and everyone buys it, naru can do this. And they're both highly stylized too, so that doesnt excuse it either.
Edit: scratch that, it was TWENTY years ago and by one of the most acclaimed directors of all time, who is hardly modern day ""woke""" guy(and I avoid using that term in general). So what has changed in our cultural zeitgeist where now its bad to have cool scenes like this? The action scene is an awesome one take as well, great camera work and well choreographed. I think we need to step outside of ourselves a bit when we analyze these things and ask how much of this modern crazy world is influencing our perspective.
Last edited:
Toons
Member
But if the premise is what you're arguing against then there could be a double standard there. Theres a level of stylization and simple "its a movie" logic you have to assume with all of these, but even beyond that, there's much overlap in the premise and execution of the story.
Like, this wouldn't be any more "realistic" if it were the brother doing it, its still a pretty nonsensical notion for one person to beat up any group of 5 or more grown men outside of capes***.
I think simply describing what happens and calling the scene cringe without much elaboration is a bit reductive. But I digress, to each their own. I really enjoyed this movie and actually kinds wanna rewatch it now.
There really isn't a double standard. The "outsmarting" in Prey is paper thin and doesn't correlate to the events of Alien at all.
And yes, it would be more realistic with the brother doing it, since his performance was far more convincing in his role.
Toons
Member
I mean, the outsmarting is built up from early on in the film, when she gets trapped in the same pit she leads him into. The narrative is that she acclimated to the environment and learned from what shed already trekked through, and thats what gave her the advantage in addition to the fact the alien didn't consider Naru a threat. Both naru and the Yajuta are on a video game like path of learning, with one facing environmental challenges and being hunted while the other is basicslly goin up the food chain, always the predator but never the prey, and that difference is what decides it.
I think it super cool thematically. But again, open to other ideas i suppose
OmegaSupreme
advanced basic bitch
Her character was trained for years for combat and fueled by vengeance. This isn't the gotcha you think it is. What has the character in prey been fighting?
Sleepwalker
Member
I enjoyed the movie for what it was but you need a lot of suspension of disbelief to not have it fall apart when a young girl who dreams of being a hunter/warrior but is not allowed to and hasn't had any training whatsoever is suddenly more capable than the actual warriors.
It's been a while since I saw Alien but isn't Ripley a literal soldier?
It's been a while since I saw Alien but isn't Ripley a literal soldier?
Toons
Member
Being trained for years allows you to be an 140 lb woman and outfight 88 elite armed assassins at once with a single sword, while they know you are there, and have you surrounded, because of fueled by vengeance? Likd a power up?
Do you hear yourself?
Like i said, if you can mentally accept that straight up capesh*** tier concept in an action film than prey should be no problem. Naru literally just took some old dumbs by surprise and was way, way faster and more agile than them. I doesn't have to be totally realistic, just entertaining. Both are.
Last edited:
In the hyper-stylized kung-fu fantasy world of Kill Bill, yes, it does. The events of the films are entirely internally consistent with that vision.
The world presented by Prey is just reality, with a predator alien bolted on.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Agreed. I like that she uses her intelligence to make up for lack of strength... And her agility and sleight of hand is cleverly built into the story. And like you said, her fighting with the Frenchmen is done smartly. She doesn't go hand to hand with them. She knows She can't fight them one on one. She isn't Bruce Lee. She's sucker punched twice in the movie even though she isn't winning in a full out fight.
One thing that interests me about their fighting stances is that it's based on Tony Blauer's defense methods. Or at least looks that way.
Toons
Member
I wouldn't say I agree with that. Again, action films inherently have a loose handle on realism in general. Realistic action isn't all that exciting 90% of the time. Magazines last longer, guns are as effective as the plot needs them to be(if it hits the hero, just a flesh wound, if it hits a bad guy its fatal) choreography is all heightened for the camera. I feel like the films internal verisimilitude is mostly consistent. These guys are never portrayed as being parricularly formidable, they are foreigners unfamiliar with the land, older, fatter, slower, and distracted, and they arent warriors but expkorers with guns. The natives are all much more accustomed to physicality, the land they've spent generations on, and up close combat because of their environment and means of hunting.
Now if someone wants to make an argument that the actress isn't convincing, sure I can give them that. But I dont think peopel would've reached much better to a girl who looks like Abby from TLOU2, and I'd prefer they opted for selling the performance rather than the muscles in an instance where the strength differential is much, much more pronounced. With Arnie theres a suspense that MAYBE these guys could take one of these Yajuta down, and of course that becomes clear to not be the case in the original. In this movie, its not even a question of who's stronger but who is the better hunter.
Ah, I thought you were talking about that Asian assassin girl from MIDR. The Prey character I think works, they just needed to find a more robust and strapping lass to play her. Less "the boys dont want her to hunt" and more "we are all in this together".
Ulysses 31
Member
Well, there didn't seem to be a rule against women hunting in that tribe, I thought the main thing was that her brother thought she wasn't ready yet.
I dunno, I don't recall any other women hunting and that girl had to be kicked awake several times in the film to go pick berries.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Yes... that was it. Also, they needed healers... their mother was basically the only one left.
GymWolf
Member
From the trailers i always had the hunch that it was trash but many people were talking good about it, glad i didn't wasted my time.
GymWolf
Member
All stuff that doesn't work against another trained man.
Unless she was beating up scrawny nerd scientists, it still doesn't add up.
Last edited:
Mr Blobby
Member
that bear fight right!
Toots
Gold Member
At 0:45 if you think for one second that she realistically take the man down by jumping on him like that, even when he has a knife in his shoulder blade, you are really gullible.
I read that as Amber Mid-Turd for a sec and that was a lot more entertaining than Prey.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Just watched that scene. It IS possible because 1, he's already injured and not paying attention to her and, 2, she's using momentum and gravity to take him down to the ground. Unless you think any man is just going to brush off the pain of a knife in their shoulder, even YOU would be distracted and in too much pain to be paying attention.
Every man, she hurts them first: Use the pain of the blade to distract them. And she uses her legs to knock them off their balance. Legs are 2-3 times stronger than arms. And every kick she uses is no higher than waist level: one guy at the ankles to knock him down, one guy in the stomach, the ankles guy in the gut to get him off of her...
That whole scene was done smartly. Not once does she use her fists. She uses her legs, gravity, momentum, her knife and ax. Basic jiujitsu with knife fighting and ax work in the choreography.
Toots
Gold Member
It is possible to believe that it is possible to do it like that if you have no idea whatsoever on how to bring someone to the ground. If the dude did anything to defend himself (like anyone would do irl), at worst for him they both end up on the ground with him on top of her, and i don't have to tell you how that goes from here, with the 100lbs difference between the two. At best he just tosses her down and proceed to violate her to death with his french canadians buddies.
Legs are in fact 6 times stronger than arms, but it doesn't change the fact that any one those dudes is ten time stronger than the girl, just by living the trapper life.
I'm all for supension of disbelief but it must be somewhat coherent.
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
They're trappers, not fighters. The girl was trained by her brother... She KNOWS how to fight. And that dude didn't have 100lbs over her. Maybe 40. He wasn't that big. Midthunder is like 120-125 at 5'4". Look at the fight again. None of those guys is a Paul Bunyan type. They're all lean and older. Not looking particularly muscular either. They might have some muscle but they aren't Ahnuld.
I don't think you're really dissecting the fight scene.
I mean we can disagree but looking at her technique, the choreography is very believable.
I think you are DRASTICALLY downplaying how "just trappers" would be in a fight. Those guys probably got into a brawl every time they went to a tavern and IIRC they were in the side business of indian trapping/slave trade, a knowledge of physical force is a prereq for that gig.
But mowing down mooks before the boss fight is an action movie trope so I'll allow it. Buuuut, the lead needs to have the physicality to sell it.
But cast this girl and I'm all on board
Toots
Gold Member
Who's the girl brother, Cus D'amato ?
The dudes are supposed to be trappers, which mean at the very least they are rugged outdoorsmen who know how to use a firearm and a knife.
Again, if you think this encounter is realistic, i think that you have no idea of what a fight should look like, even a choreographied and stylized movie fight.
By the way saying "that dude didn't have 100lbs on her. Maybe 40." is a tremendous cope.
You know how much separate the heavyweights from the middleweights in boxing ?
Take a wild guess
Last edited:
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
Who's the girl brother, Cus D'amato ?
The dudes are supposed to be trappers, which mean at the very least they are rugged outdoorsmen who know how to use a firearm and a knife.
Again, if you think this encounter is realistic, i think that you have no idea of what a fight should look like, even a choreographied and stylized movie fight.
By the way saying "that dude didn't have 100lbs on her. Maybe 40." is a tremendous cope.
You know how much separate the heavyweights from the middleweights in boxing ?
Take a wild guess
I know what a fight is supposed to look like. I've been in my fair share. I've also trained in Muay Thai, TKD, Hung Ga Kung Fu and some jiujitsu. That's the background I'm using to judge the fight scenes.
And yes, you're correct that those trappers know how to use those weapons but they were all caught by surprise. Especially the second guy she hit and took down. None of them were prepared for that fight and, like the Predator, didn't think she was a threat. I understood the context of the fight because the whole movie was everyone underestimating her because of her sex and height.
And boxing and martial arts teaches you that momentum, speed and gravity do more damage than strength alone. "Someone with superior technique will always beat someone with superior strength".
mansoor1980
Gold Member
that is a very nice looking prey , predator be likeI think you are DRASTICALLY downplaying how "just trappers" would be in a fight. Those guys probably got into a brawl every time they went to a tavern and IIRC they were in the side business of indian trapping/slave trade, a knowledge of physical force is a prereq for that gig.
But mowing down mooks before the boss fight is an action movie trope so I'll allow it. Buuuut, the lead needs to have the physicality to sell it.
But cast this girl and I'm all on board
Last edited:
xrnzaaas
Member
I'm starting to think there's not that much potential after all. A big part of what made the original movie great was the monster reveal and it took quite some time. You can't achieve the same surprise effect for the second time. Alien and Terminator succeeded with their sequels because they were generally more action focused than the horror-like originals and introduced a bunch of new cool stuff (like the liquid Terminator or the motion trackers). Predator 1 already had plenty of action.
The only sequel I liked was Predators. The idea for the offworld hunt worked well and the cast was also mostly good. I've rewatched Predator 2 recently and I still feel that the city setting doesn't work at all. I think some IP's just need to be retired.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
She's literally overpowering them from 40 seconds on by a guy who can barely hold a tiny little girl with zero convincing athleticism on film. Those kicks knocking the other guy back over and over where she can't even get a full kinetic snap to them. Come on, lol.
Movies really do convince people that this could be reality. She would have had her neck snapped by the guy holding her if they didn't make them fumbling fools for current year.
Good thing this Predator looked like he was inbred to stupidity when his Sloth face was revealed. "Heyyy you guyyyyys"
Last edited:
Toons
Member
She got out of the hold by stabbing the dude in the leg, which, yeah would make most people who aren't highly trained(which this guy was not) stopped holding onto whatever their holding and buckle over in pain.
She's fighting some old fat dudes, not Jason bourne.
Anyone who uses any action films as a Guage for what could be done in reality is an idiot, back and forth. They are all exaggerated, mostly nonsense, or take things that may happen and inflate them to make then exciting. So... im not keen to account for people who can't distinguish movies from real life.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Ok.
She wasn't fighting your current year dad in a lazyboy. She was fighting grizzled trappers and hunters.
The whole allowing her to kick multiple times cause, "retard man so dumb, retard man fall for same trick 3 time with weapon in hand, me dumb man."
Big boy would have just taken her to the ground and used his weight to compress the last breath out of her 115-120lb self.
Last edited:
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
Let's be realistic here. I havent seen the movie, but going by what you guys are discussing above about the lead character killing grown men is implausible. Unless the guys are fat nerds with zero athleticism or my 82 year old dad with a cane who can barely walk up or down the stairs (let's just say he grasps the hand rail for dear life), the average able bodied middle aged guy can kick the shit out of just about any woman. And if what you guys are saying is true, the guys are more like grizzled trapper/hunter guys they definitely arent weak slobs. You even see average dudes outwrestling female police officers who are supposed to be fit and trained.
That's why in sports there's mens and womens leagues. Faster, bigger stronger, and no doubt can take a punch to the face or a double handed slash with a hockey stick a lot better than a female. That's life, not fantasy.
That's why in sports there's mens and womens leagues. Faster, bigger stronger, and no doubt can take a punch to the face or a double handed slash with a hockey stick a lot better than a female. That's life, not fantasy.
Toons
Member
Sure, ok.
And the 80 dudes could've piled on bride and killed her.
But that wouldn't have been an entertaining action sequence.
What I'm getting at isn't to hyperanalyze every move as if this were an actual fight. If its entertaining, looks cool, is shot well, then it has succeeded in its joh for this kind of movie. In the original predator arnie throws a combat knife with enough force to penetrate a grown man's entire torso, slice through his ribcage, and pin him to the wall behind him.
This is obviously not possible in real life with human strength. But its cool. So it's good. Od take that over the alternative any day.
Thats my approach for these things. Of some folks have more strict considerations then that's fine, but even then the hardly ruins the whole movie.
StreetsofBeige
Gold Member
To be fair, a gritty Predator movie is different than a Tarentino Kill Bill movie. You cant compare a movie that's supposed to be grounded vs. a farcical action movie. For hell's sake, she's slaughtering endless dudes breakdancing on her ass chopping everyone's foot off and got out of a coffin doing Bruce Lee close quarter chest punches.
Alex11
Member
Yeah, well you now khow it is, every new SF movie with a leading lady has to be compared to Alien, if Ripley can do it, then anyone can.We are comparing this to Alien and Kill Bill?
Dem girl predator designs.....yumthat is a very nice looking prey , predator be like
Just no BJs.....
TaylorSwiftFan
Member
What weight? She’s like 40kg.
Look at how ridiculous the fight against the 3 frenchmen are:
I think you’re just trying to justify how much of a Mary Sue she is.
Edit: Look at those silly kicks pushing a full grown man back.
Last edited:
DeafTourette
Perpetually Offended
No. I don't think she's a Mary Sue.
1. She's not fighting with her fists
2. She's not getting punched in the face and shrugging it off
3. She isn't better than her brother
What I see is her adapting to her physical limitations. Absolutely NONE of those Frenchmen was particularly burly and weighed over 100lbs more than her.
As I said before, she uses momentum and center of gravity and her legs, a knife and her ax.
She hurts them with the knife first and THEN she uses her body to inflict damage and THEN goes in for the kill with the knife and ax. It's smart. Even if the techniques won't particularly be that clean in real life (almost no fight ever is).
Toons
Member
I know they are different types of movie, but like I said before, would that matter in this day and age? If you sent out that scene, even knowing all of that today, it would get dragged and called agenda pushing.
I think there's a distinction to be made, and I think the effort and priority in both that movie and this prey are apparent in the craft if the execution. The movie has one take fights, great shots, practical effects, a simple but to the point escalation narrative and plenty of cool stuff. Its one of the better examples of how to do this if you ask me. Because even if it's more "gritty" irs still a fantastical sci fi story, with the usual level of "enhanced" action.
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
Either compared to, or they forget she even exists and act like they're pioneering a strong female role in interviews, no matter how shallow the writing and character direction is.
Last edited:
March Climber
Member
Kudos to you
Toons
for continuing to fight a tidal wave. I gave up defending this movie long ago.
Regardless, the majority of people have already watched and spoken highly of the movie. I’m looking forward to what the crew behind Prey will do next. They literally took a franchise that was beyond 6 feet under and managed to save it, albeit with a different name.
A neat thing to do this time around would be to release a new movie with another different name, and never advertise it as a predator-esque film to surprise everyone. I know it won’t happen but it would be cool to see.
Toons
for continuing to fight a tidal wave. I gave up defending this movie long ago.Regardless, the majority of people have already watched and spoken highly of the movie. I’m looking forward to what the crew behind Prey will do next. They literally took a franchise that was beyond 6 feet under and managed to save it, albeit with a different name.
A neat thing to do this time around would be to release a new movie with another different name, and never advertise it as a predator-esque film to surprise everyone. I know it won’t happen but it would be cool to see.
Toots
Gold Member
Let's agree to disagree then.
I'm flabbergasted that with all of your training you still think the way you do.
I can agree that the idea of how someone could dispatch a stronger opponent (all the stuff you pointed aim for the legs, make him fall, use surprise, etc.) is there, but still the execution is so bad plus the actress frame is so weak it breaks my suspension of disbelief. And again, the first takedown is too unrealistic. She jump straight in his arms not sideways, how can she use her momentum ? She's not big enough to make him fall backwards that's for sure, so he has to turn sideways by himself (you see it well in the scene, he is the one initiating the sideway movement, she just jumps in his arms).
IDKFA
I am Become Bilbo Baggins
Last edited:
Toots
Gold Member
I guess the movie is in fact ultra realistic.
It was a Yautja from the Retarded Hunter clan
Last edited:
GymWolf
Member
I guess the movie is in fact ultra realistic.
It was a Yautja from the Retarded Hunter clan
Jesus fuck
Since we are talking about women fighting men, anyone watching the....."Special Ops:Lioness" (I think) that just came out on Paramount+. Written by Taylor Sheridan (does that guy ever sleep?) about CIA operatives, including Zoe Saldana training up a new female marine. They cast a very tall, lean, and wiry girl for that part, and really put her through hell. Some pretty good fights between her and various guys and she at least kinda moves well. But just watch the choreography to see how a 140(ish?) pound rangy woman deals with much larger men.
Hint: when she takes a real right cross to the face she goes down and stays down. But when she is dropping elbows even the guys gotta cover their head.
Anyway, the show itself is pretty fun, if a bit over the top for how much swagger CIA goons have. But in a discussion for how women can fight men, it's is earning a spot.
Hint: when she takes a real right cross to the face she goes down and stays down. But when she is dropping elbows even the guys gotta cover their head.
Anyway, the show itself is pretty fun, if a bit over the top for how much swagger CIA goons have. But in a discussion for how women can fight men, it's is earning a spot.