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Progress: The Great American LOST Re-Watch Thread *SPOILERS*
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will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
http://featuresblogs.chicagotribune...arlton-cuse-damon-lindelof-season-6-abc.html#
The 'Lost' lowdown: Part 1 of a long interview with Cuse and Lindelof
In December, I interviewed "Lost" executive producers Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof over lunch on the Disney-ABC lot in Burbank, Calif. In a week or so, I'll be using that interview to write a feature for the print version of the Tribune (I'll post that "Lost" feature here too).
But with the anticipation of the "Lost" Season 6 premiere building -- the start of the final season is only two weeks away on Feb. 2 -- I thought I'd start posting the full transcript of the interview. It's looong. Check back here for additional installments (there should be two more installments over the next week or so).
Yes, what follows is only about a third of the interview. I know! But given that Lindelof and Cuse were kind enough to give me an hour of their time, I'm going to share everything they said with my fellow island fanatics. Casual fans might not want to read the whole thing; if that's the case, there are a few choice excepts here. All my other "Lost" coverage is here.
This interview contains no spoilers for Season 6. I didn't (and still don't) want to know any specifics about the season to come.
I was interested in finding out how Cuse and Lindelof approached Season 6 and how they feel about the fans' expectations for the last season. This section of the transcript also contains the first set of 'Star Wars references, and there are several "Battlestar Galactica" and "Sopranos" references too. Also, giraffes.
In the next exciting installment: Time travel!!! Later: Ewoks!!!
Here's Part 1 -- enjoy!
Ryan: Even as a hardcore Battlestar Galactica fan, I was taken aback at how impassioned people were about the last set of episodes of that show. And I was really unprepared for how harsh people could get over the smallest things and what they meant, and over what and wasnt dealt with in those final set of episodes. It was as if everyone had a different checklist in their mind of what had to happen.
In approaching this last season, do you have the sense that it's going to be like that? Or did you just not think about the intensity of the fan reaction?
Lindelof: Im sure we both have similar yet vastly verbose responses to that because we talk a lot about it and been talking a lot about the ending of the show for a long time. But I think that there is a disproportionate focus on a finale and there always has been. And this happens on a micro level, where the critically and fan-hated season, Season 3, also happens to have the greatest finale probably of the series. And the taste left in your mouth in the wake of the finale is really all that matters.
If the entire series is going to be judged based on our ability to execute the dive, you cant do your job. Part of it is -- despite what people think or say, so much of it has been talked about and planned for years now that youre just kind of executing the plan to the best of your ability. You're changing the plan when its not working, but otherwise, youre kind of married to the inevitable -- the stuff that we want to do.
Cuse: We also spent a lot of time talking about how we dont want the last season of the show to be didactic. Its very dangerous to basically create a checklist of answers and then start trying to tick them off, because we want to make sure were telling engaging stories. For us really, while the mythology is important, for us its a story about these characters. And so most of our focus has been on, how are we going to resolve the character stories?
We really feel we are very committed to this notion of not stripping the show of its essential mystery. I mean, mystery exists in life and we kind of always go back to the midi-chlorians example [in the 'Star Wars' prequel films]. Your understanding the Force was not aided by knowing that there were little particles swimming around in the bloodstreams of Jedi.
There are sort of fundamental elements of mystery and magic to the show that are unexplainable, and any attempt to explain them would actually harm the show, and in our opinion, the legacy of the show. So were trying to find the right blend of answering questions, but also leaving the things that should be mysterious mysterious.
Ryan: Yeah. I did not need to know more about Boba Fett. He has a jet pack. He a ship named Slave 1. I dont need to know more than that.
Cuse: Yeah, exactly.
Lindelof: And for us, there are questions that were clearly presenting. Its not like Lucas ever presented in the first three Star Wars films, "What is The Force?"
And therefore, its like, when people ask us, "What is the island, what do the numbers mean?" You know, we dont know how to answer the question, "What do the numbers mean?" We can tell you what the practical application of the numbers is in the series, but how do you answer a question like that?
Its like, if you could have a sitdown with God and say, "Why is a giraffes neck so tall?" You know, because he can eat from large trees. And its like, "But you made all these other animals that dont need tall necks to eat, so why?" So you get into a conversation where every answer you give only makes it more frustrating.
Cuse: Or that leads to the question of, did God in fact create that giraffe or not, which is also a very, very tricky question to attempt to answer.
Lindelof: Of course. Look, the franchise of Lost -- in addition to the primary franchise, which is the characters and the mysteries of the island that have always been in support of the characters -- there's this idea of, "What did they mean by that?" The zeitgeist of the show has developed around different iterations of that question. What do they mean by that?
Because the show isnt like a traditional cop show where by the end of it somebody basically says, Heres who did it, heres why they did it, and here is what is going to happen to them. Or a law show with no ambiguity. Theres going to be an element of "What do they mean by that?" long after Lost is done and no matter what we did, theres nothing we could do to prevent it.
Cuse: And also, we also are aware that answering questions inevitably raises other questions. We call it the Big Bang conundrum.
Lindelof: A.k.a, Kates plane.
Cuse: Yeah, if you go back and you say, "OK, Jacob is obviously someone who was of great significance to the mythology of the show, but who was before Jacob? And then but who created that person?" If you go back in the universe you can say, the universe was created in an event called the Big Bang, but then you can inevitably ask the question, "Well, what was before the Big Bang?"
I think the audience has to have a sort of respect for the fact that there is only a circumscribed set of answers that we can ever give. And were not sitting here trying to evade our responsibility to provide answers. We are going to answer the questions that, for us, feel like they need to be answered and we feel like we have some cool and satisfying answers for them.
Lindelof: One of which will be, we will answer what caused the Big Bang.
Ryan: It was giraffes.
Cuse: It was giraffes.
You know, ultimately, were excited though, because it does feel like we concocted the mythology of the show a long time ago and its like having a Christmas present and you kept it on the shelf a long time and people are finally going to get to open it and see it. So were finally getting to deploy the ending of the show and that is exciting to us. It is a story and I think as storytellers, thats always whats delicious -- you set up the audience and then you basically finish the story. Theres a payoff and were actually going to finally give the audience our payoff.
And we are going to go off the grid after the show is over to avoid the actual issue of having to interpret the ending. Again, weve always felt that one of the compelling elements of Lost is its intentional ambiguity. The fact is, its open for interpretation and discussion and we feel like we would be doing a disservice to the fans and the viewers to say, No, you must only look at this in one way. We dont think that is really good for the show or for peoples ability to read into the show what they want. I mean, thats what I like to do when I read a good book -- basically be able to debate what the real meaning and intention of that story is.
Ryan: So, what youre saying is, you're going to France?
Cuse: Were not saying. Were not saying where we are.
Lindelof: Its an undisclosed location.
Ryan: Is it Dick Cheneys bunker?
Lindelof: Exactly. The one promise that we are making is that what were not going to do is leave the show hanging so we can pick up the ball and run with it two years from now in some other television project or movie. I think that we owe ourselves and the story and the audience a sense of finality.
Cuse: The most complete ending that we can give them.
Lindelof: Yeah, you cant break up with somebody and say, "Lets not go out anymore, but I still want to sleep together, I still want to live in the same house, and we should still go on dates all the time." No. If its over, its over.
Were trying to create a season that really feels like its over as opposed to [left open-ended]. People keep saying, "Is there going to be a Sopranos movie?" And I actually feel the question in itself is offensive to anybody who likes the cut-to-black [ending] because it completely neutralizes the deftness. Carlton and I happen to be huge fans of the Sopranos. But to do a Sopranos movie, you could never watch that series finale again with any level of respect [if you know] know that something followed it.
Cuse: The other phenomenon which is interesting is that the immediate interpretation of the ending of Lost may not be the same as the ultimate interpretation of the ending of Lost.
I mean, you as a Battlestar fan probably have experienced the sensation that there was an immediate reaction to how Battlestar ended, and [now] it seems like theres a bit of and evolving reaction to how Battlestar ended. And we anticipate that the same thing might happen with Lost.
Theres an instantaneous sense of loss, and using the Sopranos, again as an example -- a lot of people were sort of outraged because the story ended and it wasnt conclusive, but then with some perspective and a little distance from the show, the metaphor of what Chase was doing there became clearer and that seemed to resonate better over time than in the immediate aftermath.
Lindelof: What was so impactful about that ending is, as a huge Sopranos fan myself, I can tell you almost nothing about that episode other than that Anthony Jr. was considering going into the military and then he got into a car accident. But the episode itself is like completely like sand through my fingers. I dont remember anything about it. All I remember is that [last] scene...
Ryan: The only other thing I remember, apart from the final scene, is Meadow trying to park the car.
Lindelof: Right. All I remember is that Journey song. What are people going to take away from the final episode of Lost? Will it be the final image?
Cuse: Will it be the episode in its totality?
Lindelof: We keep getting asked about the final image and were like, "Yeah, sure, we know what it is." But people are acting like the final image of the show is revelatory in some way, as opposed to maybe [what's revelatory] is what happens in the first hour of the finale.
Cuse: But whats happened is, I think people have expectations that have grown from other shows, where that last moment is such a sting. Whether its all of a sudden you see a snow globe [as in "St. Elsewhere"] or you cut to black or somebody wakes up and its all been a dream. Whatever it is, its like that final twist negates or completely overshines everything thats come before it.
Lindelof: Which is amazing because the fact that people invested six years of their lives and over 120 hours on Lost and theyre going to pay it all off in this 30-second scene. "That is going to change the entire way that I feel about the show."
Cuse: We hope it doesnt.
Lindelof: Well be riding either a wave of goodwill into the finale, or bad will, and its happened different ways in different seasons for us. Last year, [we had] the overt time travel story mechanism and the rise of characters like Faraday and the risk of putting Sawyer with Juliet. All of those things could have been [big problems] in any other world, and we were just fortuitous enough that it worked. But we really dont have any sense of how this season is going to be received until its on the air.
Ryan: James Poniewozik [Time's television critic] has written about this, about how the finale of a sci-fi show can't just be a finale, it has to provide an Answer. It can't just be an ending, it has to solve the problem. And I felt like I definitely saw that split in the "Battlestar" fandom, between the people who wanted or feel they got character payoffs and the people who don't feel various solutions to the plot and the story were arrived at correctly.
Your show, if anything, has more fans and more different camps invested in different people and also in different parts of the mythology.
Cuse: I feel like there will be diverse opinions and again, we understand that the hardcore mythology fans might react differently than the people who are really waiting to find out if Kate ends up with Sawyer or with Jack. And for us, we feel that the story lines that ultimately will be the most satisfying are the character stories. In discussing the various conundrums of mythology answers, we are very well aware that for people who are really focused on the mythology, its hard to provide probably completely sufficient answers for those group of people. So there will be therell probably be different levels of satisfaction based on what it is that interested you about the show in the first place.
All we can do is trust our guts, which is kind of where weve been from the beginning. We started the show sitting in my office every morning having breakfast, talking about what we thought was cool. And whatever we both would get excited about would go into the show and thats how weve approached it [all along] and thats how we approached it at the end.
So, our barometer can only be: Does this ending feel satisfying to us and to the other writers? And if we can achieve that, we feel like we will have done what we can do and what we should do. Beyond that, I think every show certainly a lot of people have rejected Lost along the way. We started with a 10.2 rating at the beginning of the second season and a certain group of people said, You know what? This is too much to invest; this is too much mythological show to invest in."
People found a way to part with the show for various reasons, or they embraced it all the way down the line. So, were not trying to reverse-engineer the process, were basically committed to doing the best version that we feel we can do and thats all we can do.
Lindelof: Theres a certain amount of security in the idea of saying the show was never supposed to work in the first place. In the wake of the pilot, to say, "This show is actually going to be on the air for over 120 episodes," we would have laughed in your face. So the idea that it sustained as long as it has and that some of our best episodes were in our fifth season as opposed to [earlier in the shows run], or that we were able to bounce back from some sub par episodes and sort of regain our momentum. That makes us kind of think -- its becoming a lot more about the journey for us than it is about the ending and we hope that thats the show's ultimate legacy.
But I think the sci-fi distinction you make is an interesting one because, when you talk about the Sopranos ending or the last episode of Seinfeld or Friends, theres only so many iterations of what can happen. The Sopranos, the only thing that people were talking about is, "Is Tony going to live, or is somebody going to kill him?"
With Lost, nobody can even guess what the ending is going to be. If you were to have a contest right now saying, "In one paragraph, summarize what you think the last episode of 'Lost' might be" -- if you say it to 100 people, you will get 100 paragraphs that have nothing to do with each other.
If you say that to somebody about the Sopranos, 50 people will say, "I think Tonys going to get whacked," maybe 10 people will say, "Carmela is going to kill him, but hes going to get whacked." But no one would have said, "Theyre going to be eating in a friggin' restaurant -- onion rings." That's what was so brilliant about it -- how do you do the unexpected?
Ryan: You brought up in the first season and how you thought it would never last this long. As you look back, are there things you wish you could have done differently?
Cuse: No, I dont think so. You could ask the same question about your life. I suppose everyone has regrets, but at the same time, you can either focus on your regrets as a path to nowhere. The journey of the show has been the absolutely right journey of the show. We had to take all the steps and the occasional missteps that we took in order to get where we are. So, everything that weve done has been sort of right in the larger karmic sense.
Its interesting that you talk about this. One of the central themes of the show is free will versus predetermination and that same issue was very much in play in how the show was constructed. Yes, the mythological architecture was constructed back in the first season and between the first and second season, but the actual journey of these characters is something that evolves literally, episode by episode. We view the process of making the show as a very organic one. We watch what happens and how characters play off each other, what relationships are working, what arent working.
So there still is an element of discovery that is a part of getting into the finale. We sort of know what the Incident is, but how thats going to play out with the characters is still something that we discover as we write each episode of the show.
We are not only the stewards of this journey, but we also have this wonderful process of discovery ourselves, which is, I think, the essence of the creative process. It's when you get into that transcendence where the show tells you what it wants to be and thats something that we didnt even anticipate. So, that to us is whats fun.
Ryan: You guys have obviously a unique relationship with the fans. Have you ever changed what you wanted to do, or reconfigured what you thought you were going to do, based on good or bad fan reaction?
Lindelof: There hasnt been an instance in the show where we disagreed with fan reaction, or were incredibly surprised by fan reaction. By the time fans saw Nikki and Paolo deliver their first lines of dialogue, we were already writing [their final episode,] 'Expose.' Had the fans said "We actually love these characters," maybe it would have given us pause, but by then we fundamentally acknowledged we had taken a shot and it didnt work.
We did the Sawyer/Juliet thing last year. We were introducing Juliet into a relationship with Sawyer, [even though] the debate has been about whether Kate going to chose Sawyer or Jack. Now were changing it into a quadrangle for the first time, and its going to be it is a mature love at that we dont even see how [their relationship] really starts. When we introduced the audience to it, [the relationship] is already up and running for three years. That was the bold risk, but when we saw those dailies with Elizabeth [Mitchell as Juliet] and Josh [Holloway as Sawyer], they just sold it and were like, "This works."
If the audience doesnt like the relationship, hopefully they wont fault us for the idea and the good news is, LaFleur is Episode 8 and the season is only 16 episodes long and then Juliet falls into a hole. So, if they hate it, its only going to last for eight episodes, but its really going to govern every decision that Sawyer makes from here on out.
So, there are moments where we go, "What is the fan reaction going to be to this thing?" But especially since we started premiering in January [the season is mostly written by then]. On February 2 [when the final season premieres], Carlton and I and the writers are going to be writing Episode 15 of Season 6.
Cuse: Yeah, there will be no time for course correction. Last year we committed to this concept of time travel with a certain expectation that some people really might not respond to it. I think the most pleasant surprise was how much people embraced it, because it was difficult and it was much more overtly science fiction, and yet people really seemed to like the season.
But we have the same anxiety about what were doing this season. We kind of feel like the fundamental tenet that weve tried to follow as storytellers is "Be bold." But in being bold sometimes you fall on your face.
So we committed to a narrative approach this season which we feel is bold and its different than what weve done before. And if it works, itll be exciting, but it might not be everybodys cup of tea either.
Next: I give them grief about the time travel in Season 5. I know, I know, some "Lost" fans loved it. Which we discussed.
Posted at 11:49:08 AM in Lost
The 'Lost' lowdown: Part 1 of a long interview with Cuse and Lindelof
In December, I interviewed "Lost" executive producers Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof over lunch on the Disney-ABC lot in Burbank, Calif. In a week or so, I'll be using that interview to write a feature for the print version of the Tribune (I'll post that "Lost" feature here too).
But with the anticipation of the "Lost" Season 6 premiere building -- the start of the final season is only two weeks away on Feb. 2 -- I thought I'd start posting the full transcript of the interview. It's looong. Check back here for additional installments (there should be two more installments over the next week or so).
Yes, what follows is only about a third of the interview. I know! But given that Lindelof and Cuse were kind enough to give me an hour of their time, I'm going to share everything they said with my fellow island fanatics. Casual fans might not want to read the whole thing; if that's the case, there are a few choice excepts here. All my other "Lost" coverage is here.
This interview contains no spoilers for Season 6. I didn't (and still don't) want to know any specifics about the season to come.
I was interested in finding out how Cuse and Lindelof approached Season 6 and how they feel about the fans' expectations for the last season. This section of the transcript also contains the first set of 'Star Wars references, and there are several "Battlestar Galactica" and "Sopranos" references too. Also, giraffes.
In the next exciting installment: Time travel!!! Later: Ewoks!!!
Here's Part 1 -- enjoy!
Ryan: Even as a hardcore Battlestar Galactica fan, I was taken aback at how impassioned people were about the last set of episodes of that show. And I was really unprepared for how harsh people could get over the smallest things and what they meant, and over what and wasnt dealt with in those final set of episodes. It was as if everyone had a different checklist in their mind of what had to happen.
In approaching this last season, do you have the sense that it's going to be like that? Or did you just not think about the intensity of the fan reaction?
Lindelof: Im sure we both have similar yet vastly verbose responses to that because we talk a lot about it and been talking a lot about the ending of the show for a long time. But I think that there is a disproportionate focus on a finale and there always has been. And this happens on a micro level, where the critically and fan-hated season, Season 3, also happens to have the greatest finale probably of the series. And the taste left in your mouth in the wake of the finale is really all that matters.
If the entire series is going to be judged based on our ability to execute the dive, you cant do your job. Part of it is -- despite what people think or say, so much of it has been talked about and planned for years now that youre just kind of executing the plan to the best of your ability. You're changing the plan when its not working, but otherwise, youre kind of married to the inevitable -- the stuff that we want to do.
Cuse: We also spent a lot of time talking about how we dont want the last season of the show to be didactic. Its very dangerous to basically create a checklist of answers and then start trying to tick them off, because we want to make sure were telling engaging stories. For us really, while the mythology is important, for us its a story about these characters. And so most of our focus has been on, how are we going to resolve the character stories?
We really feel we are very committed to this notion of not stripping the show of its essential mystery. I mean, mystery exists in life and we kind of always go back to the midi-chlorians example [in the 'Star Wars' prequel films]. Your understanding the Force was not aided by knowing that there were little particles swimming around in the bloodstreams of Jedi.
There are sort of fundamental elements of mystery and magic to the show that are unexplainable, and any attempt to explain them would actually harm the show, and in our opinion, the legacy of the show. So were trying to find the right blend of answering questions, but also leaving the things that should be mysterious mysterious.
Ryan: Yeah. I did not need to know more about Boba Fett. He has a jet pack. He a ship named Slave 1. I dont need to know more than that.
Cuse: Yeah, exactly.
Lindelof: And for us, there are questions that were clearly presenting. Its not like Lucas ever presented in the first three Star Wars films, "What is The Force?"
And therefore, its like, when people ask us, "What is the island, what do the numbers mean?" You know, we dont know how to answer the question, "What do the numbers mean?" We can tell you what the practical application of the numbers is in the series, but how do you answer a question like that?
Its like, if you could have a sitdown with God and say, "Why is a giraffes neck so tall?" You know, because he can eat from large trees. And its like, "But you made all these other animals that dont need tall necks to eat, so why?" So you get into a conversation where every answer you give only makes it more frustrating.
Cuse: Or that leads to the question of, did God in fact create that giraffe or not, which is also a very, very tricky question to attempt to answer.
Lindelof: Of course. Look, the franchise of Lost -- in addition to the primary franchise, which is the characters and the mysteries of the island that have always been in support of the characters -- there's this idea of, "What did they mean by that?" The zeitgeist of the show has developed around different iterations of that question. What do they mean by that?
Because the show isnt like a traditional cop show where by the end of it somebody basically says, Heres who did it, heres why they did it, and here is what is going to happen to them. Or a law show with no ambiguity. Theres going to be an element of "What do they mean by that?" long after Lost is done and no matter what we did, theres nothing we could do to prevent it.
Cuse: And also, we also are aware that answering questions inevitably raises other questions. We call it the Big Bang conundrum.
Lindelof: A.k.a, Kates plane.
Cuse: Yeah, if you go back and you say, "OK, Jacob is obviously someone who was of great significance to the mythology of the show, but who was before Jacob? And then but who created that person?" If you go back in the universe you can say, the universe was created in an event called the Big Bang, but then you can inevitably ask the question, "Well, what was before the Big Bang?"
I think the audience has to have a sort of respect for the fact that there is only a circumscribed set of answers that we can ever give. And were not sitting here trying to evade our responsibility to provide answers. We are going to answer the questions that, for us, feel like they need to be answered and we feel like we have some cool and satisfying answers for them.
Lindelof: One of which will be, we will answer what caused the Big Bang.
Ryan: It was giraffes.
Cuse: It was giraffes.
You know, ultimately, were excited though, because it does feel like we concocted the mythology of the show a long time ago and its like having a Christmas present and you kept it on the shelf a long time and people are finally going to get to open it and see it. So were finally getting to deploy the ending of the show and that is exciting to us. It is a story and I think as storytellers, thats always whats delicious -- you set up the audience and then you basically finish the story. Theres a payoff and were actually going to finally give the audience our payoff.
And we are going to go off the grid after the show is over to avoid the actual issue of having to interpret the ending. Again, weve always felt that one of the compelling elements of Lost is its intentional ambiguity. The fact is, its open for interpretation and discussion and we feel like we would be doing a disservice to the fans and the viewers to say, No, you must only look at this in one way. We dont think that is really good for the show or for peoples ability to read into the show what they want. I mean, thats what I like to do when I read a good book -- basically be able to debate what the real meaning and intention of that story is.
Ryan: So, what youre saying is, you're going to France?
Cuse: Were not saying. Were not saying where we are.
Lindelof: Its an undisclosed location.
Ryan: Is it Dick Cheneys bunker?
Lindelof: Exactly. The one promise that we are making is that what were not going to do is leave the show hanging so we can pick up the ball and run with it two years from now in some other television project or movie. I think that we owe ourselves and the story and the audience a sense of finality.
Cuse: The most complete ending that we can give them.
Lindelof: Yeah, you cant break up with somebody and say, "Lets not go out anymore, but I still want to sleep together, I still want to live in the same house, and we should still go on dates all the time." No. If its over, its over.
Were trying to create a season that really feels like its over as opposed to [left open-ended]. People keep saying, "Is there going to be a Sopranos movie?" And I actually feel the question in itself is offensive to anybody who likes the cut-to-black [ending] because it completely neutralizes the deftness. Carlton and I happen to be huge fans of the Sopranos. But to do a Sopranos movie, you could never watch that series finale again with any level of respect [if you know] know that something followed it.
Cuse: The other phenomenon which is interesting is that the immediate interpretation of the ending of Lost may not be the same as the ultimate interpretation of the ending of Lost.
I mean, you as a Battlestar fan probably have experienced the sensation that there was an immediate reaction to how Battlestar ended, and [now] it seems like theres a bit of and evolving reaction to how Battlestar ended. And we anticipate that the same thing might happen with Lost.
Theres an instantaneous sense of loss, and using the Sopranos, again as an example -- a lot of people were sort of outraged because the story ended and it wasnt conclusive, but then with some perspective and a little distance from the show, the metaphor of what Chase was doing there became clearer and that seemed to resonate better over time than in the immediate aftermath.
Lindelof: What was so impactful about that ending is, as a huge Sopranos fan myself, I can tell you almost nothing about that episode other than that Anthony Jr. was considering going into the military and then he got into a car accident. But the episode itself is like completely like sand through my fingers. I dont remember anything about it. All I remember is that [last] scene...
Ryan: The only other thing I remember, apart from the final scene, is Meadow trying to park the car.
Lindelof: Right. All I remember is that Journey song. What are people going to take away from the final episode of Lost? Will it be the final image?
Cuse: Will it be the episode in its totality?
Lindelof: We keep getting asked about the final image and were like, "Yeah, sure, we know what it is." But people are acting like the final image of the show is revelatory in some way, as opposed to maybe [what's revelatory] is what happens in the first hour of the finale.
Cuse: But whats happened is, I think people have expectations that have grown from other shows, where that last moment is such a sting. Whether its all of a sudden you see a snow globe [as in "St. Elsewhere"] or you cut to black or somebody wakes up and its all been a dream. Whatever it is, its like that final twist negates or completely overshines everything thats come before it.
Lindelof: Which is amazing because the fact that people invested six years of their lives and over 120 hours on Lost and theyre going to pay it all off in this 30-second scene. "That is going to change the entire way that I feel about the show."
Cuse: We hope it doesnt.
Lindelof: Well be riding either a wave of goodwill into the finale, or bad will, and its happened different ways in different seasons for us. Last year, [we had] the overt time travel story mechanism and the rise of characters like Faraday and the risk of putting Sawyer with Juliet. All of those things could have been [big problems] in any other world, and we were just fortuitous enough that it worked. But we really dont have any sense of how this season is going to be received until its on the air.
Ryan: James Poniewozik [Time's television critic] has written about this, about how the finale of a sci-fi show can't just be a finale, it has to provide an Answer. It can't just be an ending, it has to solve the problem. And I felt like I definitely saw that split in the "Battlestar" fandom, between the people who wanted or feel they got character payoffs and the people who don't feel various solutions to the plot and the story were arrived at correctly.
Your show, if anything, has more fans and more different camps invested in different people and also in different parts of the mythology.
Cuse: I feel like there will be diverse opinions and again, we understand that the hardcore mythology fans might react differently than the people who are really waiting to find out if Kate ends up with Sawyer or with Jack. And for us, we feel that the story lines that ultimately will be the most satisfying are the character stories. In discussing the various conundrums of mythology answers, we are very well aware that for people who are really focused on the mythology, its hard to provide probably completely sufficient answers for those group of people. So there will be therell probably be different levels of satisfaction based on what it is that interested you about the show in the first place.
All we can do is trust our guts, which is kind of where weve been from the beginning. We started the show sitting in my office every morning having breakfast, talking about what we thought was cool. And whatever we both would get excited about would go into the show and thats how weve approached it [all along] and thats how we approached it at the end.
So, our barometer can only be: Does this ending feel satisfying to us and to the other writers? And if we can achieve that, we feel like we will have done what we can do and what we should do. Beyond that, I think every show certainly a lot of people have rejected Lost along the way. We started with a 10.2 rating at the beginning of the second season and a certain group of people said, You know what? This is too much to invest; this is too much mythological show to invest in."
People found a way to part with the show for various reasons, or they embraced it all the way down the line. So, were not trying to reverse-engineer the process, were basically committed to doing the best version that we feel we can do and thats all we can do.
Lindelof: Theres a certain amount of security in the idea of saying the show was never supposed to work in the first place. In the wake of the pilot, to say, "This show is actually going to be on the air for over 120 episodes," we would have laughed in your face. So the idea that it sustained as long as it has and that some of our best episodes were in our fifth season as opposed to [earlier in the shows run], or that we were able to bounce back from some sub par episodes and sort of regain our momentum. That makes us kind of think -- its becoming a lot more about the journey for us than it is about the ending and we hope that thats the show's ultimate legacy.
But I think the sci-fi distinction you make is an interesting one because, when you talk about the Sopranos ending or the last episode of Seinfeld or Friends, theres only so many iterations of what can happen. The Sopranos, the only thing that people were talking about is, "Is Tony going to live, or is somebody going to kill him?"
With Lost, nobody can even guess what the ending is going to be. If you were to have a contest right now saying, "In one paragraph, summarize what you think the last episode of 'Lost' might be" -- if you say it to 100 people, you will get 100 paragraphs that have nothing to do with each other.
If you say that to somebody about the Sopranos, 50 people will say, "I think Tonys going to get whacked," maybe 10 people will say, "Carmela is going to kill him, but hes going to get whacked." But no one would have said, "Theyre going to be eating in a friggin' restaurant -- onion rings." That's what was so brilliant about it -- how do you do the unexpected?
Ryan: You brought up in the first season and how you thought it would never last this long. As you look back, are there things you wish you could have done differently?
Cuse: No, I dont think so. You could ask the same question about your life. I suppose everyone has regrets, but at the same time, you can either focus on your regrets as a path to nowhere. The journey of the show has been the absolutely right journey of the show. We had to take all the steps and the occasional missteps that we took in order to get where we are. So, everything that weve done has been sort of right in the larger karmic sense.
Its interesting that you talk about this. One of the central themes of the show is free will versus predetermination and that same issue was very much in play in how the show was constructed. Yes, the mythological architecture was constructed back in the first season and between the first and second season, but the actual journey of these characters is something that evolves literally, episode by episode. We view the process of making the show as a very organic one. We watch what happens and how characters play off each other, what relationships are working, what arent working.
So there still is an element of discovery that is a part of getting into the finale. We sort of know what the Incident is, but how thats going to play out with the characters is still something that we discover as we write each episode of the show.
We are not only the stewards of this journey, but we also have this wonderful process of discovery ourselves, which is, I think, the essence of the creative process. It's when you get into that transcendence where the show tells you what it wants to be and thats something that we didnt even anticipate. So, that to us is whats fun.
Ryan: You guys have obviously a unique relationship with the fans. Have you ever changed what you wanted to do, or reconfigured what you thought you were going to do, based on good or bad fan reaction?
Lindelof: There hasnt been an instance in the show where we disagreed with fan reaction, or were incredibly surprised by fan reaction. By the time fans saw Nikki and Paolo deliver their first lines of dialogue, we were already writing [their final episode,] 'Expose.' Had the fans said "We actually love these characters," maybe it would have given us pause, but by then we fundamentally acknowledged we had taken a shot and it didnt work.
We did the Sawyer/Juliet thing last year. We were introducing Juliet into a relationship with Sawyer, [even though] the debate has been about whether Kate going to chose Sawyer or Jack. Now were changing it into a quadrangle for the first time, and its going to be it is a mature love at that we dont even see how [their relationship] really starts. When we introduced the audience to it, [the relationship] is already up and running for three years. That was the bold risk, but when we saw those dailies with Elizabeth [Mitchell as Juliet] and Josh [Holloway as Sawyer], they just sold it and were like, "This works."
If the audience doesnt like the relationship, hopefully they wont fault us for the idea and the good news is, LaFleur is Episode 8 and the season is only 16 episodes long and then Juliet falls into a hole. So, if they hate it, its only going to last for eight episodes, but its really going to govern every decision that Sawyer makes from here on out.
So, there are moments where we go, "What is the fan reaction going to be to this thing?" But especially since we started premiering in January [the season is mostly written by then]. On February 2 [when the final season premieres], Carlton and I and the writers are going to be writing Episode 15 of Season 6.
Cuse: Yeah, there will be no time for course correction. Last year we committed to this concept of time travel with a certain expectation that some people really might not respond to it. I think the most pleasant surprise was how much people embraced it, because it was difficult and it was much more overtly science fiction, and yet people really seemed to like the season.
But we have the same anxiety about what were doing this season. We kind of feel like the fundamental tenet that weve tried to follow as storytellers is "Be bold." But in being bold sometimes you fall on your face.
So we committed to a narrative approach this season which we feel is bold and its different than what weve done before. And if it works, itll be exciting, but it might not be everybodys cup of tea either.
Next: I give them grief about the time travel in Season 5. I know, I know, some "Lost" fans loved it. Which we discussed.
Posted at 11:49:08 AM in Lost
TheGreatDave
Banned
At least they understand what an ending should be. I find most that stuff reassuring. But while I don't want everything explained, I don't want obvious issues to be untouched (WALLLLLLLLLLLT) just because they're difficult.
LaChapelle Promo from S1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4XBtWYBPTns
Just saw this for the first time on another website and I was thinking this was an original promo for S6. It's still pretty creepy/cool.
Just saw this for the first time on another website and I was thinking this was an original promo for S6. It's still pretty creepy/cool.
SpeedingUptoStop
will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
Holy shit :lol :lolSpeedingUptoStop said:
Just drowning my sorrows, Kate... just drowning my sorrows...
.....alright, he lives over in that foot over there....
"Ben" rubbing his hands together was killin' me.
Fuck, awesome family.
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
Catalix said:
AAAAH IT'S THE BOMB!
I would like some sort of Richard Alpert flashback in season 6 - and I would like it to be something like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoG0ieI2g94
I'm sure this has been posted before, so sorry if old.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KoG0ieI2g94
I'm sure this has been posted before, so sorry if old.
I rewatched "Cabin Fever", still one of my favorite episodes. There's just so many great scenes in it, and it has even more meaning after watching season five.
I'm not convinced that Richard "Doesn't Age", as people say. The whole Mittelos ("Lost Time") anagram for the company he created/works for suggests that he's just skipping large chunks of time between the eras we see him in, perhaps associated with traveling on and off the island.
I'm not convinced that Richard "Doesn't Age", as people say. The whole Mittelos ("Lost Time") anagram for the company he created/works for suggests that he's just skipping large chunks of time between the eras we see him in, perhaps associated with traveling on and off the island.
The Big Rig
Member
:lol That's fantastic, and surprisingly informative.SpeedingUptoStop said:
Gamer @ Heart
Member
Season 6 will start with a Richard backstory that will somehow introduce this new presentation element we keep hearing about. I FEEL IT!!
SpeedingUptoStop
will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
Spoiler or not?Gamer @ Heart said:
More Richard is always welcome on this planet.
Gamer @ Heart
Member
Pure speculation on my part, but i feel it has a chance.
I think they'll make us wait for the Richard episode, I'm guessing it's Jack, Kate and John for the first three in that order.
Richard might be a main character this season, but he never was before, he'd be on the island if the bomb works or not. If it's flash-sideways they're introducing, he wouldn't be an ideal character to do it with.
Richard might be a main character this season, but he never was before, he'd be on the island if the bomb works or not. If it's flash-sideways they're introducing, he wouldn't be an ideal character to do it with.
StuBurns said:
If you read the ep titles (which I do - its as far as I go with "spoilers"), you already know who ep 3 (after the two part premiere) is about :lol In fact, its the exact same name as a previous episode for said character, only with the last word tweaked.
Ive read the first 4 ep titles, and Im guesing its:
Ep.1/Ep.2 (premiere) - Everyone
Ep. 3 -
Kate, duh :lol
Locke or Facob
UltimaPooh
Member
Solo said:
I'm re-watching the incident right now and Episode 4 could actually be about
Frank Lapidus
Ilana and crew talk about him being a candidate... a candidate for what re-birth of Jacob or something else?
Yaweee said:
I still think Darlton never intended for Richard to be like that, why did he have long hair when he first spoke to Ben? Yet every other scene he looks the same. But remember that, not sure if it really is a spoiler - plus its season 5
Locke did ask Richard why he doesn't age and Richard responded Jacob made me this way. So it does look like the answer is he doesn't age.
Pretty sure they just fucked up on making him look younger - then saw that people were asking why he doesnt age so they decided to mindfuck them more. But I dont really mind, Richard is still one of the most interesting characters on the show. And I like how in season 5, for once, he doesn't really know whats going on but senses something aint right.
gdt5016 said:
I was just saying that I wasn't sure that it was always the plan. If Darlton wanted to show from the start that he doesn't age then in Ben's flashback when he first sees Richard, surely they would make him look the same like every other scene he's in since then.
Even if it wasn't the plan from the start, it works and made richard one of the most interesting characters on the show.
EliCash said:
Ok, so you're saying the Richard we see in the present, talking to Ben in his tent, is 65+ years old? Or could have been? It's just clear that that was the plan from his first appearance.
The hair was just more of the Hostiles' misdirection they're so fond of using.
beelzebozo
Jealous Bastard
i agree with you calcaneus.
on a tangentially related topic, it's interesting to read the TWOP forums about shows that often get discussed here, and compare the general consensus on characters and situations with the way things pan out over there; just as a for instance, the MAD MEN season 3 finale--particularly the views on henry francis--were at least so far as i can tell generally agreed upon here. over there, it's the exact opposite. i won't go into details, but i think a lot of the TWOP forums maybe can't see tell the difference between
(using the spoiler just to be safe. it's still very vague, but hey, i'm cross-referencing which is always a gamble)
on a tangentially related topic, it's interesting to read the TWOP forums about shows that often get discussed here, and compare the general consensus on characters and situations with the way things pan out over there; just as a for instance, the MAD MEN season 3 finale--particularly the views on henry francis--were at least so far as i can tell generally agreed upon here. over there, it's the exact opposite. i won't go into details, but i think a lot of the TWOP forums maybe can't see tell the difference between
romantic veneer and romantic sincerity.
(using the spoiler just to be safe. it's still very vague, but hey, i'm cross-referencing which is always a gamble)
Nameless
Member
I was randomly watching Flashes Before Your Eyes at work last night, god damn. Two things came to mind:
1. Its a better episode than The Constant(and that's saying a lot). Such a brilliantly shot and perfectly executed episode of Lost, and certainly a far more important episode than The Constant in that it's exactly what the show is currently about. It all but introduced What Happened Happened to the Lost universe.
2. This could be the narrative structure Darlton keep talking about. Imaging FBYE/The Constant on but on a much larger scale. The bomb detonates, there is a flash of light everyone disappears and experiences their consciousness flashing to a point in their life before the crash or to a reality where 815 never crashes--memory intact or slowly returning over time, as with Desmondo. There's tons of story they could tell this way that would be relevant to the overall plot... At a certain point, of course, possibly after their "death" there's another flash they appear in 2007 as we saw them in The Incident. Like Desmond, fully aware of what just happened.
1. Its a better episode than The Constant(and that's saying a lot). Such a brilliantly shot and perfectly executed episode of Lost, and certainly a far more important episode than The Constant in that it's exactly what the show is currently about. It all but introduced What Happened Happened to the Lost universe.
2. This could be the narrative structure Darlton keep talking about. Imaging FBYE/The Constant on but on a much larger scale. The bomb detonates, there is a flash of light everyone disappears and experiences their consciousness flashing to a point in their life before the crash or to a reality where 815 never crashes--memory intact or slowly returning over time, as with Desmondo. There's tons of story they could tell this way that would be relevant to the overall plot... At a certain point, of course, possibly after their "death" there's another flash they appear in 2007 as we saw them in The Incident. Like Desmond, fully aware of what just happened.
gdt5016 said:
No, I said above in response to another comment that Richard definatly doesn't age and that the show addressed that. It's just that we've seen Richard march into dharmaville in a shirt and short hair as we always see him, and whenever the other others are doing the whole misdirection thing he isn't, apart from when we first see him.
But you're probably right, and it looks like Richard has a major role to play in season 6 so it was probably all planned from the get-go.
SpeedingUptoStop
will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
No, he was talking about how, if the audience didn't like the LaFleur stuff with Juliet, they only had to deal with it for 8 episodes. That was always the plan, whether the audience liked it or not - that's what he was trying to say.Calcaneus said:
TheGreatDave
Banned
BenjaminBirdie
Banned
MMaRsu said:
That's just as new as any previous season's "new style" of storytelling.
They just mean replacing Flashbacks or Flashforwards with something else.
In this case it would be Sun's time spliced with these other...reality...stuffs?
Catalix
And on the sixth day the LORD David Bowie created man and woman in His image. And he saw that it was good. On the seventh day the LORD created videogames so that He might take the bloody day off for once.
That's what I'm thinking. I see the Jughead explosion at ground zero and the turning of the fail safe key as similar events, bookends if you will. I expect a similar outcome, just on a more ambitious scale.Nameless said:
The Desmond stuff in S3 and S4 was just preparing us for the final grand execution of this concept.
Lindelof posted this on his Twitter. Figured it would fit better in the rewatch thread than the S6 Discussion!
Flight 815 in real time
Flight 815 in real time
Nameless
Member
Catalix said:
They really are. I love the fact that both events are end results of Jack & Locke taking on the other's role(Man of Science Man of Faith). It's note worthy that in season 4 Faraday even asks if Desmond had ever been exposed to "high levels of radiation" as he's flips shit on helicopter. Which he had thanks to jughead. We've seen twice that radiation + island squeezed electromagneticsm = space/time/mind fuckery and The Incident is the origin of of that.
TheGreatDave said:
I see things ultimately playing out that way however the narrative is structured. More or less the "Its a wonderful life" dynamic. They'll have memories of their post jughead experiences when they get to 2007, but the impact of those events will stop at them--which is how it should be.
Epic fan made video to prepare you for the 6th season. Couldn't see it here, I did look - probably has been posted though. So sorry if old, just felt that most lost fans should see this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_7CRpHEwa8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_7CRpHEwa8
SpeedingUptoStop
will totally Facebook friend you! *giggle* *LOL*
It's kind of weird how this video seems to imply that Christian was resurrected almost immediately.RichardAM said:
Sup with that.
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