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Project Cafe Rumor Cafe [Weinerpoop Post 7513]

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Portugeezer

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chaosblade said:
You people are either crazy or don't know what you're talking about. Fake or otherwise, 512MB system RAM would be great. This is not a PC. It's not going to be doing much multitasking, it's not going to be running a massive Windows OS. It's going to run a small OS that will probably have 32-64MB reserved, and the rest is for nothing but games. Combined with 1GB GDDR5, that's perfect for a next-gen console, and honestly, it's about what I would expect the PS4/360 to have a year later.

If Nintendo doesn't go with unified RAM, it's more likely they would have like 256MB system RAM and 768MB video RAM. 512MB/1GB would really surprise me.
Doesn't matter that it's not a PC, 512MB would be too low. 360/PS3 have pushed that amount of memory to the limits, we need more.

Also yes PC does more than games, but a lot of the memory goes to pagefile or whatever. Games like Crysis uses about 1.5GB's of main memory, many PC games us more these days, a lot more. (and this is how much it actually uses, not system requirements!)
 

StevieP

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EuropeOG said:
Doesn't matter that it's not a PC, 512MB would be too low. 360/PS3 have pushed that amount of memory to the limits, we need more.

Also yes PC does more than games, but a lot of the memory goes to pagefile or whatever. Games like Crysis uses about 1.5GB's of main memory, many PC games us more these days, a lot more.

You're thinking about ram with a PC mentality. Change that method of thinking.
Main memory and video memory are 2 different things, based on this spec sheet. Unified memory would also mean something different.
 

swerve

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antonz said:
As has been mentioned the thing about the sheet is really the fact none of it is really outlandish to the point of being able to outright say thats bullshit.

-'Devkit 1.3'
-'Theoretical peak performance'
-Overly detailed display outputs yet no mention of the mysterious controller or inputs/networking.

Edit: -'Fox' and 'Wolf' not 'Fox' and 'Falco', or 'Pepper' for the CPU and 'Fox' for the GPU.
 

Fourth Storm

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antonz said:
As has been mentioned the thing about the sheet is really the fact none of it is really outlandish to the point of being able to outright say thats bullshit.

XDR2 is the odd part out mostly because it would be pretty expensive though Nintendo does like its exotic ram. XDR2 basically offers double the bandwidth of DDR5 so even 512MB of it would be pretty sufficient.

Nintendo was the first company to use RDRAM with the N64. Yes, Gamecube was designed with a different philosophy in mind, but I think we've all come to see over the years that things do change. Rambus may very well have given them a sweet deal after seeing how many units the Wii sold.
 

chaosblade

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antonz said:
As has been mentioned the thing about the sheet is really the fact none of it is really outlandish to the point of being able to outright say thats bullshit.

XDR2 is the odd part out mostly because it would be pretty expensive though Nintendo does like its exotic ram. XDR2 basically offers double the bandwidth of DDR5 so even 512MB of it would be pretty sufficient.
The CPU is arguably outlandish. I thought a POWER6 based CPU would probably be a solid console CPU, but Nintendo is going to want out of order execution because both the Wii and GCN used that. It wouldn't be required for backward compatibility, but it would make things a lot quicker and easier. Maybe I'm mistaken, but OoOE would require some pretty big changes, more than they usually do when getting a custom processor.

The GPU mentioned is basically a 4890. Doesn't really match the other rumors, but I wouldn't call it outlandish.

The wording is really off on the whole thing though. The new disc would probably just be called the Nintendo Optical Disc 3.0. Just like the Wii disc was 2.0. They also wouldn't call the components "custom AMD RV770," they would just call it a custom AMD GPU "[codename]", likewise with the CPU.
 

wsippel

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Hylian said:
Cpu - > Pretty high clocks, what might be the power consumption a chip like this?
3.5GHz is actually pretty damn low for a POWER6 CPU. In fact, it would be underclocked. Off-the-self, POWER6 starts at 3.6GHz and goes all the way up to 5GHz.
 

Alexios

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Just saw that IGN thing where they built a PC to be like Cafe. Wtf, lol. How pointless can you get, trying to show off the cafe by showing off games that aren't even made for those specs, but rather made for much lower end systems (especially considering a lot of those are console ports) with a few extra bells and whistles for the more powerful PCs, nothing to really take advantage of the platform at its core with the use of physics, larger ram, or whatever else for anything more than superficial improvements. How pretty games would you get by building a PC to be as powerful, in numbers like these, as the Wii? Nothing like Super Mario Galaxy, that's for sure. I guess they're starting the trolling super early this time, by showing there's practically no difference to the current generation of systems (COD being the "clearest" improvement? Really?). I mean, if current gen ports (which all new systems get, it's not a point worthy of much thought) is all they care about then they would never look more than marginally better. People will want to see the games made specifically for that hardware more than anything else, ports of good games are just bonuses on top of that single major point. Nothing more.
 

Reallink

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EuropeOG said:
Doesn't matter that it's not a PC, 512MB would be too low. 360/PS3 have pushed that amount of memory to the limits, we need more.

Also yes PC does more than games, but a lot of the memory goes to pagefile or whatever. Games like Crysis uses about 1.5GB's of main memory, many PC games us more these days, a lot more. (and this is how much it actually uses, not system requirements!)

Just to point out the obvious, this proposed Cafe (for all intents and purposes) has 1.5GB of RAM if you're trying to draw a parallel to the PS360.
 

Hylian

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StevieP said:
At the very least, I can answer this one for you (because the other questions are quite valid).

Nintendo, since the GC, has been using DVD tech. Standard, decades old DVD tech. Mini DVD in the GC, Dual Layer DVD on the Wii. However, with a caveat. 1) No DVD license, so no DVD playback. 2) They're printed differently than standard DVDs (i.e. won't read in most DVD drives).

It is speculated (by IGN, Kotaku I think) that the Wii2 will use similar blue-laser tech but without the BluRay license, so no movie playback but same capactiy and (now) low-cost laser. And likely, the same printing method as the Wii/GC's optical discs (so that you can't rip the games in a standard BD-ROM).

Ah okay, makes sense. So there is no ĺegal issues when sidestepping around license costs this way?. Do you think Microsoft could take route as well to decrease cost if they indeed is no issues with it from the part of the creators of Blueray Spec?.
 

[Nintex]

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wsippel said:
3.5GHz is actually pretty damn low for a POWER6 CPU. In fact, it would be underclocked. Off-the-self, POWER6 starts at 3.6GHz and goes all the way up to 5GHz.
Underclocking is also a typical 'Nintendo-thing' to do because that would increase yields.

For example if I were to make a fake list of Wii2 specs I would come up with like 2GB of system RAM, Radeon HD5770 and a touchscreen iPad controller with cream on top, I wouldn't come up with a design like this.
 
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wsippel said:
Except for the GPU performance. At that clock speed, it'd need 912 shader units to achieve the performance claimed. Problem is that with R700, the number of shader units need to multiples of five. Northern Islands on the other hand uses multiples of four. If true, the GPU would be so heavily modified that it wouldn't really be an HD4xxx anymore, it'd basically be a R700/ Northern Islands hybrid. While the numbers are odd, the math is sound - 912 is indeed also a multiple of 16, so that would lead to the unusual, but possible number of 57 TMUs. It's also kinda odd that both chips are supposedly 32nm parts. The AMD roadmap posted all over the internet only mentions 40nm and 28nm if I remember correctly, but IBM actually does manufacture 32nm chips in their East Fishkill plant. Don't know, maybe all that actually makes the rumor more believable - or the faker did his homework. I don't think the guy who posted the image would be knowledgeable enough to come up with that...


32nm? roadmap from an older thread

herzogzwei1989 said:
On the process front, a roadmap has appeared:



http://www.brightsideofnews.com/new...-2q-20112c-20nm-in-2012-and-14nm-in-2014.aspx

28nm in Q2 2011. I don't see why Cafe's GPU couldn't be 28nm if things go well for AMD's manufacturing partners.
 

StevieP

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Hylian said:
Ah okay, makes sense. So there is no ĺegal issues when sidestepping around license costs this way?. Do you think Microsoft could take route as well to decrease cost if they indeed is no issues with it from the part of the creators of Blueray Spec?.

You're not really running into legal issues in any sense, just saving money by not having to pay BluRay a licensing fee to play movies. In either case, it's purported that it's a standard blue-laser drive much in the same way that Wii/GC use a standard dvd-laser. And yes, MS could easily do this. However, people would bitch more at MS for not paying the movie-playing license more than Nintendo, which has never given it to us.

32nm? roadmap from an older thread

Expecting TSMC to meet a deadline is like expecting Valve to meet its deadlines.
 

The Hermit

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Those are the worst kind of fake, the ones where everything fits...

I still remember NIntendo ON just because it was too well elaborated.

:(
 

Hylian

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szaromir said:
R700 was 55nm, this one is 32nm. So yes, definitely.

Yeah but that gpu had a 160W peak power consumption and was guite hot. Taking that to even higher clocks at 32nm would still mean pretty high power consumption/heat. If every process gives you 20-30% saving in power consumption. That would still leave you with pretty considerable amount of Heat/Power. Much more so than what is produced by RSX or xenos , even at 32nm. That would mean nintendo is going to invest in to some considerable cooling this time around.
 
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I love it when threads 'explode' with new technical discussion like this one is doing, whether the slide is fake or not.

Hey, this is post #3333 :)
 

Fourth Storm

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Hylian said:
Yeah but that gpu had a 160W peak power consumption and was guite hot. Taking that to even higher clocks at 32nm would still mean pretty high power consumption/heat. If every process gives you 20-30% saving in power consumption. That would still leave you with pretty considerable amount of Heat/Power. Much more so than what is produced by RSX or xenos , even at 32nm. That would mean nintendo is going to invest in to some considerable cooling this time around.

Would explain IGN's reports of an original Xbox 360-sized box. This often gets overlooked but this (supposed) fact is a very telling indicator of what type of technology Nintendo are pursuing.
 

Fourth Storm

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I saw people have mentioned a possible MGS reference with "Fox" and "Wolf" codenames, but has anyone brought up the more obvious Starfox link?

Edit: Mother....
 

swerve

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Fourth Storm said:
Would explain IGN's reports of an original Xbox 360-sized box. This often gets overlooked but this (supposed) fact is a very telling indicator of what type of technology Nintendo are pursuing.

It means nothing when it's Nintendo. The controller could dock on the main unit, which would mean it had to be bigger than a Wii already.
 
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herzogzwei1989 said:
I love it when threads 'explode' with new technical discussion like this one is doing, whether the slide is fake or not.

Hey, this is post #3333 :)

when you think of the last specs comes from IGN I don't see no reason not to give this fake sheet a chance
 

Death Dealer

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bgassassin said:
LOL. Yeah I figured you were missing the point.

Your earlier post lacked much detail. I'm supposed to know everything you just wrote implied off your meandering first post ?

I think Nintendo is breaking from the past with Cafe. They're going closer to mainstream with the Cafe. As they say hw is designed like a buffed up X360. I doubt there will be any architecture spill over from the ancient GC and Wii hw designs.
 

Jackano

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Hylian said:
Wow , Where did this come from ?. I want this to be true. But.

Cpu - > Pretty high clocks, what might be the power consumption a chip like this?
Gpu - > Is it possible to get that high flops from r770 withou making it a power hog/heater?.
RAM - > Is 512MB XDR2 Really financially feasible, how much benefit would there be to DDR3?
HDD - > 250/320GB Hard drive from Nintendo ? -> where is my 8gb flash?.
32nm -> Will this be ready for cafe lauch with high enough yields and low enough premiums?.
Rom -> Custom Blue Ray?, is this for copy protection/ DRM and what would be the costs?.

I love those fakes. So pathetic. This one is great!
Lovely low jpeg compression, careless use of words we never see in actual facts sheet like "internal use only", "theorical", "Custom AMD", and, on a more abstract way, an author who in barely 10 years of Nintendo difference never understood the sentence "we does not announce the specs because it really doesn't matter" and/or produced his fake by melting developers oriented specs like the actual chipset reference with consumer/press oriented fact specs with mentions of backward compatibility and SD Card use.
 

Fourth Storm

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swerve said:
It means nothing when it's Nintendo. The controller could dock on the main unit, which would mean it had to be bigger than a Wii already.

While I am a proponent of the "dock theory," I still see the rumored size of the console as a hint into what technology lies inside. Docking is cool, but not worth blowing up system dimensions for, especially when the last two Nintendo home consoles were praised for their relative portability.
 

Plinko

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herzogzwei1989 said:
So what's the source of this likely-fake spec sheet anyway?

Somebody's friend on a German message board.

It sounds even more ridiculous now that I've typed it out.
 

Oblivion

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So it has 512 MB of main ram, and 1 gig of Video RAM.

Isn't that pretty damn good, in comparison to the 360/PS3?
 

Hylian

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wsippel said:
3.5GHz is actually pretty damn low for a POWER6 CPU. In fact, it would be underclocked. Off-the-self, POWER6 starts at 3.6GHz and goes all the way up to 5GHz.

Okay, that would mean its not that big of a power hog then , Good candidate for a Cafe from a power consumption/heat standpoint ?.
 

antonz

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herzogzwei1989 said:
Haha, yeah it does :)
It sounds silly but the reality is thats how leaks happen. Someones friend says something they arent supposed too even if sites like IGN etc dont relay it that way.

I doubt its legit but none of the specs are off the wall and are all reasonable enough
 

AceBandage

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Oblivion said:
So it has 512 MB of main ram, and 1 gig of Video RAM.

Isn't that pretty damn good, in comparison to the 360/PS3?


Both the 360 and PS3 have 512MB of RAM total (divided differently for each system).
So that's 3 times.
I think 1.5GB is what they'll go for, regardless of how fake that image is.
 
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AceBandage said:
Both the 360 and PS3 have 512MB of RAM total (divided differently for each system).
So that's 3 times.
I think 1.5GB is what they'll go for, regardless of how fake that image is.

Would be really sweet, and don't forget that 16 MB eDRAM, that's 60% more than Xbox360's Xenos GPU.
 

Gamer @ Heart

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Who gives a shit if its fake! We needed this a week ago!
Its fun has got me excited aagain for the possibilities.

Anyway, isn't XDR RAM expensive? How much faster is it than more regular RAM?
 

demonturkey

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DR3AM said:
who said that the system will be revealed before e3? i remember seeing it in a thread title

From memory... a few weeks prior to Nintendo's last investor's meeting Nintendo issued a small statement responding to the various rumours that had started spreading, confirming they had a new home console ready and their intention to reveal at E3 (like the 3DS last year.) They also said there would be more info in the coming weeks, and people thought this meant they might reveal some things at the investor's meeting.

Of course, they didn't really say anything there. Except that it existed again and that they would reveal at E3 again.
 

AceBandage

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Gamer @ Heart said:
Who gives a shit if its fake! We needed this a week ago!
Its fun has got me excited aagain for the possibilities.

Anyway, isn't XDR RAM expensive? How much faster is it than more regular RAM?


Very expensive, but that wouldn't be uncommon for Nintendo to splurge on RAM type. It's something like twice the bandwidth of DDR5, I think.
 

antonz

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Gamer @ Heart said:
Who gives a shit if its fake! We needed this a week ago!
Its fun has got me excited aagain for the possibilities.

Anyway, isn't XDR RAM expensive? How much faster is it than more regular RAM?
The XDR2 memory solution provides incredible bandwidth performance and does so at far lower power than GDDR5 memory. In fact, XDR2 consumes 30% less power than GDDR5 at equal bandwidth performance. Given equal power budget, XDR2 memory provides 50% more bandwidth than GDDR5. And at full speed, XDR2 DRAM deliver twice the bandwidth of GDDR5 devices.

thats some basic look at it
 

AceBandage

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herzogzwei1989 said:
These next 8 days (okay slightly less now) will be torture.


I'm just counting it as 5 more days of work (the rest of this week and next Monday).
Plus, Monday night we'll get the eShop for the 3DS, which will help to tide me over until the conference.
 
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