C'mon, there are only a few entitled posters in here, and even then their entitlement is slightly scaled back from usual.
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PS+ version of Driveclub will have 5 tracks (1 country) and 10 cars.
- Thread starter ShogunDarius
- Start date
C'mon, there are only a few entitled posters in here, and even then their entitlement is slightly scaled back from usual.
We were told we are getting a scaled back version of the game. No details on the content, and when it is shared, it apparently isn't what was promised even though nothing side from the game itself was promised. How is it scaled back if we never knew what we were exactly getting? People were expecting a full fledged AAA game for free and they're not. That's all there is to it.
It may feel like it's going around in circles if you categorically believe anyone with a different view from you must be wrong, but I assure you, the language quoted would give many people the reaction you're seeing here. Again, this from someone planning to buy the full commercial version. You're giving a needlessly sharp retort to even mild clarification on the topic.
Saying a game will be missing a few cars or tracks, to have it missing all but ten cars and 80 percent of the tracks matters quite a bit. In particular for a title predicated on multiplayer and community challenges. Calling it the full experience when you effectively won't be able to play online or react to 80% of community challenges is inconsistent. The original statements describing the PS+ version were unfortunate. The reactions you're seeing aren't made up; they're from people who feel misled by it. I have trouble believing your way of looking at it is motivated by a sincere consideration of the language used. Particularly since you're so unwilling to even entertain the premise.
Totally different? Are they giving you a different game or something?
Totally scaled back? Based on what evidence? If the game was originally going to launch with 12 tracks and 20 cars, would having 5 tracks and 10 cars still not be enough?
The game was delayed for 11 months. Do you think the environmental artists just sat on their hands while the UI/social guys worked on getting that part of the game up to snuff? Do you think the modelers just jerked off in the bathroom to pictures of a McLaren P1?
If content was added over those 11 months, but the content that was included in the PS+ version wasn't, how is that scaled back?
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Please let the water be safe!
no i was expecting a good portion of the game from their comments about the amount of content being held back. they shouldn't have said a few or slightly less, if they meant we get 20% of the game with plus. if they added tons of new content and kept plus the same, they should have come out and said that.
as to plating the game, it has to be a weird group of achievements. no achievements for any races outside the plus edition races? or achievements for racing in any cars outside the plus edition cars? just sounds weird to me.
Camp Freddie
Member
This is ridiculous, and I can't believe the people who are defending the developers.
Driveclub was a major part of the marketing and they said the PS+ version would only be slightly reduced, while having all the main features.
This is pretty much like the difference between Forza 4 and the Forza 4 VIP Edition, which had a few extra tracks and cars.
Instead, "slightly" less becomes at least 80% less. This isn't quibbling over the precise definition of "slightly". This an inconceivable failure to understand what words actually mean.
How on earth can the Campaign be in the game if there are only one country of tracks?
If a game has a campaign mode, I'd expect it to include almost all of the tracks. This pretty much guarantees that the campaign mode is a Battlefield-style "Oh, just chuck some crap together so we can claim we have a single player mode".
Also, anyone spot the stealth 'tweak' to clubs, limiting them to 6 people?
That pretty much guarantees that unless your club are hardcore gamers and hardcore driveclub fans, then you are rarely going to have anyone to race with.
My Forza 4 club had about 50 people. Typically one or two were online when I was. My "close friends" club had a dozen people and it was rare to see any of them online.
It could be okay if the upgrade fee is small. I doubt the discount will be significant though (especially since it'll be a discount off a highly inflated MSRP). I mean, who would buy driveclub without PS+ ? The game practically requires you to be online. Presumably it's the same people that bought Battlefield 4 and only played offline.
Driveclub was a major part of the marketing and they said the PS+ version would only be slightly reduced, while having all the main features.
This is pretty much like the difference between Forza 4 and the Forza 4 VIP Edition, which had a few extra tracks and cars.
Instead, "slightly" less becomes at least 80% less. This isn't quibbling over the precise definition of "slightly". This an inconceivable failure to understand what words actually mean.
How on earth can the Campaign be in the game if there are only one country of tracks?
If a game has a campaign mode, I'd expect it to include almost all of the tracks. This pretty much guarantees that the campaign mode is a Battlefield-style "Oh, just chuck some crap together so we can claim we have a single player mode".
Also, anyone spot the stealth 'tweak' to clubs, limiting them to 6 people?
That pretty much guarantees that unless your club are hardcore gamers and hardcore driveclub fans, then you are rarely going to have anyone to race with.
My Forza 4 club had about 50 people. Typically one or two were online when I was. My "close friends" club had a dozen people and it was rare to see any of them online.
It could be okay if the upgrade fee is small. I doubt the discount will be significant though (especially since it'll be a discount off a highly inflated MSRP). I mean, who would buy driveclub without PS+ ? The game practically requires you to be online. Presumably it's the same people that bought Battlefield 4 and only played offline.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Given Rushy has confirmed the game to be able to be completed offline I don't see how the game practically requires it.
I swear the criticisms have moved from the main point of the thread to Plus and other reasons. It's like someone calling a skinny guy fat and he fails at the point but then proceeds to say "yea, well your face is ugly".
The game will still have a fine amount of content on release and the Plus version is more than enough to whet the appetite. Whether or not this has 5 tracks/10 cars or 6 tracks/20 cars should have little bearing on whether or not someone should buy this game.
Camp Freddie
Member
It's when people make trollish complaints about something on behalf of someone (or a group of people) that don't actually exist.
e.g. If you post a funny video of a parent teasing a naughty child, a "concern troll" would attack you "because you're causing the child distress and they will probably grow up to hate their life and become a mass murderer or something".
It is concern trolling if someone who has no intention of buying a PS4 uses this as a trollish opportunity to bash Sony.
Concern trolling doesn't apply here. Most of us 'trolls' have a PS4 and PS+, and have been looking forward to getting almost the full game for 'free', so the issue affects us directly.
Please do.
"I only own a PS4 but it's really worrying seeing the lack of indie games on the XB1. I hope it doesn't fail catastrophically and stop being produced completely in its first year because of it."
Mix passive aggressiveness with back handed complements.
The "few" controversy has run its course. The cycle starts over every 5 pages or so. Some people took it literally, which was [varying quantitative term] gullible of them. And some disregarded it completely as PR fluff. Which it was, and that produces mistrust. Which is also bad. The benefit is that I'm pretty the last two days of discussion are equal to or greater than, all of the Driveclub discussion before hand. Which is a feat with the length Delay Thread we had. But, you know what they say, there's no such thing as bad publicity. Especially when your product is available to download "at no extra cost" or for "free" or is "included in your PS+ subscription" or for "approximately $1". I bet everyone on my friends list is at least going to download it if they have PS+.
Can we get back to the "PS+ Edition" thing? I personally think it's more pertinent.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
That explains a guy like Loch Dun, a known XB fanboy in this thread. I won't call out anymore but please, I've read almost the entity of this circus of a thread and there absolutely is concern trolling.
I still don't get it, that didn't sound like a back handed complement at all. It just sounds sarcastic. Never mind though. It's off topic. Thanks for the replies guys.
OK, so you are not trolling, you just genuinely feel that you are entitled to a $60 game for your $50 subscription that already gives you tons of value?
Makes sense, I guess.
I absolutely agree with this. I'm in the camp of being thrilled with the advancements we're seeing with extra work put into the title since its original release window, though that being said, I think there's legitimate reason for people to be annoyed if the PS+ version was going to be their way of playing the game. I think when the language was that it would only be missing a few cars or tracks, I can't agree that what's ending up included is in the spirit of that. With a focus on multiplayer and community challenges, that makes it an even more meaningful difference. That doesn't mean the game is bad for it, but the expectations built up for the PS+ version sounds out of line to me.
What I mean to say is in the future I don't want something described as only missing a few of something while still offering a full experience ending up like this. It seems to actively invite confusion from players. Unless that reaction is a dramatic outlier, that seems like something to be taken into account with the language used.
I was expecting something along the lines of forza 4 essential edition.
It really seems to me like a lot of the people that feel ripped off honestly believe they were led to believe that the PS+ version would only be missing a small number of cars or tracks compared to the full retail release.
I would like to see the actual quotes where Evolution or Sony said "here's what you're gonna get in the free version" that they have now since backpedaled on. From what I remember, they never made any promises to us as consumers other than that there would be a free version and that it would have reduced content compared to the retail version.
If they gave you 80-90% of the game for free, would you really go out and pay full price just to get the few cars and maybe the one environment that you were missing? HIGHLY UNLIKELY. You would expect that to come in at a DLC pricetag of $15. They have to balance how much they give you for free to give you enough to be sure you want more, but to still incentivize the $60 purchase so they can actually get some return on their development costs.
Sure, you pay for PS+... Sony makes that well worth your while by letting that service pay for PS4 online gaming, cloud storage, and the plethora of free games they give you every single month. When you complain that this particular free offering you get as a subscriber is a "ripoff" because it doesn't have as much content (that you were never promised) as you were expecting... yeah you sound a little bit entitled.
I think there will be more hours of gameplay here than there were in Ground Zeroes, and so many people happily paid $29 for that. I plan to buy Driveclub in full on release day, so why I even participate in this argument I'll never know. But I do feel that it's more than a demo (especially if you have access to all of the modes), and for the low low price of FREE is still generous of the developer. However, they are giving the game out this way to encourage more people to buy it. I understand that, I never expected anything different from them, nor was I led to believe one way or the other by the reveal speech.
I would like to see the actual quotes where Evolution or Sony said "here's what you're gonna get in the free version" that they have now since backpedaled on. From what I remember, they never made any promises to us as consumers other than that there would be a free version and that it would have reduced content compared to the retail version.
If they gave you 80-90% of the game for free, would you really go out and pay full price just to get the few cars and maybe the one environment that you were missing? HIGHLY UNLIKELY. You would expect that to come in at a DLC pricetag of $15. They have to balance how much they give you for free to give you enough to be sure you want more, but to still incentivize the $60 purchase so they can actually get some return on their development costs.
Sure, you pay for PS+... Sony makes that well worth your while by letting that service pay for PS4 online gaming, cloud storage, and the plethora of free games they give you every single month. When you complain that this particular free offering you get as a subscriber is a "ripoff" because it doesn't have as much content (that you were never promised) as you were expecting... yeah you sound a little bit entitled.
I think there will be more hours of gameplay here than there were in Ground Zeroes, and so many people happily paid $29 for that. I plan to buy Driveclub in full on release day, so why I even participate in this argument I'll never know. But I do feel that it's more than a demo (especially if you have access to all of the modes), and for the low low price of FREE is still generous of the developer. However, they are giving the game out this way to encourage more people to buy it. I understand that, I never expected anything different from them, nor was I led to believe one way or the other by the reveal speech.
serversurfer
Member
Speaking for myself, I expected to get like 80-90% of the game, and 100% of the core content, and then pay like $20 for the remaining 10-20% of the content.
Now it's sounding more like I'll be getting 10-20% of the game, and even if I can still get the remaining 80% for the same $20, I'd feel like that still doesn't match the offer originally presented, even though I originally intended to upgrade regardless.
I think people are entitled to what the game director promised, which seemed like it would be at least half the game. People wouldn't be mad if these promises were never made.
zackmorris
Member
I just don't agree with most of that stuff.
If you think the first party games are good I guess that's your opinion, I would disagree with the exception of infamous.
Superior 3rd party games? Superior to what? Compared to PC versions an argument could be made that they are inferior versions.
The "free" PS plus games are nice but with the exception of Resogun I wouldn't have bought any of them and really didn't care for any of them. Also most of them aren't exclusive to the PS4 and since you pay for PS plus I don't think it's fair to say the games are free.
Most of the F2P games are not exclusive to the PS4
Cheaper price? Again cheaper than what?
I've never opened playroom once and don't see why I ever would.
Again if that's your opinion on those things that's fine, I'm glad your enjoying your console. Personably my PS3 has gotten much more use than my PS4 since I got it on launch day.
No it's not. If you don't like service which you actually paid for, then good for you.
It's free enough that I really don't want to see any more clarification of what "free" means in this thread.
You don't have to give concrete values to mislead people's expectations. This...
...combined with this...
...does not match the product that is now being presented. It's not insane for people to expect a full game when the developer describes it as such. People are claiming that this quote can't be blamed for setting expectations due to the imprecise nature a the word "few", which doesn't work because "few" can mean either of the following:
- A very small number... lets say between 2 and 4.
- A small amount... so something that isn't the majority.
Now you can say that people were gullible for having believed what the developers told them they would receive, but that's not the same argument as claiming they weren't misled in the first place. I also don't want to hear anymore about how a post on NeoGAF holds no weight, because Rushy just posted that the Platinum was still obtainable, and everybody on both sides of the argument immediately accepted this NeoGAF forum post to be a valid confirmation. You don't get to decide that forums posts are pointless when negative, but reliable when positive.
I was always intending to buy the full version of the game also, so I'm not really affected by any changes. I just think telling people that are affected to shut up and deal makes no sense. The content they are offering today is still a good deal when considering what is being asked in order to play it. However, it doesn't appear to be anywhere near as good a deal as it was originally made to seem. That's all people are trying to say, but are being shouted down for not being ecstatic about the perceived changes to the PS+ offering over the last year.
Not really. Much like DR:Case Zero, Ground Zeroes can not be accurately described as a demo as the content it contains is completely unique to that of The Phantom Pain. It is its own product, regardless of its length. Buying both Ground Zeroes and The Phantom Pain on the same day wouldn't be redundant. Buying Driveclub PS+ and Driveclub retail would be.
Ground Zeroes is already free. You just pay for it, and then it's free to play whenever you want.
Hoho for breakfast
Member
You really should not have to spell it all out like this, but thanks for doing it anyway.
Thanks for the links. At least in those you can see the dev say "the free version will have slightly less." I would agree that including 20% of the tracks and 30% of the cars (hypothetical numbers because I don't know the final counts on either) in the free version is a damn sight more than "slightly" less content than the full game. In that statement, they did set the bar a little high.
That at least lets me understand why some people feel that they're getting stiffed by Evolution at this point. I am still satisfied with what they are giving away for free, and it doesn't really affect me because I am buying in anyway, but... it does give me a little more perspective.
It is not entitlement drama but rather it is people upset at a broken promise. Also people would probably be less upset if this was rare for Sony but instead it is common to have broken promises from things Sony says at E3.
serversurfer
Member
Eh?
Its crazy lol
BouncyFrag
Member
GribbleGrunger
Dreams in Digital
Your agenda is showing.
So glad I didn't have to pay for this car I use. I just give a small percentage of my monthly income to the dealership and they let me use it for free!
We were actually getting somewhere with the conversation with the "PS+ editions" taking up IGC slots and the ethics of the situation.
Then we got to arguing the semantics of "free", which also got into people thinking those concerned are "entitled" and "trolling" which painted the majority as having a completely different approach.
Then we got to inane derailing of the thread about the, wonderful, value of PS+.
This thread definitely has run its "course".
Then we got to arguing the semantics of "free", which also got into people thinking those concerned are "entitled" and "trolling" which painted the majority as having a completely different approach.
Then we got to inane derailing of the thread about the, wonderful, value of PS+.
This thread definitely has run its "course".
I realized later what it meant. I read it as trolling concerned posts, not faking concern to troll.I'm surprised GAF didn't pop up in your search. Tis a subtle art form.
"I really hope the Wii U sales pick up, otherwise they'll have to slash the console price and people will be picking up bundles with Bayonetta 2 for next to nothing."
That's concern trolling. Although I still don't get the point really, you could just say what you actually mean and you wouldn't be banned for it.
BurnOutBrighter
Banned
Um, no we haven't. Anyone with a basic understanding of what words mean knew we were not getting anything close to a full game as part of our PS+ subscriptions.
Did anyone of sound mind ever actually think this? You are the definition of a concern troll
HORRORSHØW
Member
nope. i never expected a near-complete game to be offered on +. i do remember the devs stating that we'll be able to finish the game (platinum) with the + version. as long as that's still the case, i see no reason to think that the + version is "false advertisement" in any fashion. if i'm remembering wrong, please correct me.
BurnOutBrighter
Banned
Buying the game is a paywall. I've heard everything now.
Family Fry
Member
It's weird, you need PS+ to play #driveclub online, take full advantage of the game modes. Also with that subscription you receive a free variant of the same game.
Seems like a waste bothering with a plus edition of the game. Unless Sony are using the plus edition to drive more PS+ subscriptions or digital conversions to full price to drive digital sales?
Seems like a waste bothering with a plus edition of the game. Unless Sony are using the plus edition to drive more PS+ subscriptions or digital conversions to full price to drive digital sales?
And because everything is now free, everyone is "entitled" if they complain about anything.
Time to shut down GAF.
I think they were pushing this game as a way to get more ps+ subs. especially when they were doing the 50% off ps+ with purchase of the game, which they recently removed. putting a driveclub lite version on ps+ was to get people to buy the full game. it looks like now they are just releasing a ps+ version because they said they would.
bigboss370
Member
I don't think the PS+ stuff has been scaled back at all. Its just that the rest of the game has been scaled up, because of the delay. Hence the free stuff is now a smaller portion of the whole than it was before.
Number of countries was confirmed before the delay, so no.