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PS3 v2.70 walkthrough up!
- Thread starter gofreak
- Start date
LiquidMetal14 said:
Fair enough. I was really more commenting on my awe with the guys fellating this update, like it was suddenly the panacea for the PS3's online gaming ills.
The problem comes into play when people assume I'm a troll, and then I go off on a tangent. I really, truly don't understand why some console owners get so defensive so quickly.
Cheech said:
You can mute "YoNutzMyMowth89" and the rest of his squad.
The lack of party system in KZ2 is serious omission but you can end up playing with your buddies anyway by just putting yourselves on the same side. Unless autobalancing is activated.
Also, it's cool to be able to chat with your friends even if on opposing sides. No question. But one can wonder if a dedicated channel for that does more good to you than hurt the game for the rest of the participants. As far as I know party chatting doesn't mix with normal game chatting so you don't talk with people in your squad nor u can hear them. Not sure I want to be on the same side with someone talking shit with another guy on the opposing team.
For offline solo gaming tho, it's ok.
PuMa said:If by "a few", you mean "way too many so shut the fuck up you stupid crybabies its a damn free update you fucks", then, yes, I agree.
I think you, chubigans, and a few others are missing the point of my criticism.
Sony has perpetually this generation taken the best features of the 360's dash and implemented them in the most half-assed and haphazard way imaginable. Everything from in-game XMB, to now the party chat, and even minor things like the clock have been screwed up.
It shows a lack of commitment on Sony's part to the expensive black albatross I have sitting in my basement. If they don't want to spend the money to "get it right", why should I reward them by buying games for the thing?
All that said, if a PS3 was my only gaming system, I'd think it was the greatest console since the NES. Only by having a 360 in the same AV rack does the PS3's lack of attention by Sony become glaring. Microsoft will spend the money to implement features their customers are asking for. Sony won't.
I don't think this is a difficult argument to digest and accept, at least for the multi-console owner.
tfur
Member
I like the new feature. The immature trolling seems silly. It reminds me of a mix of the blackberry messenger and irc. Web and mobile access to this might be a good addition.
I think I will pick up the little keyboard attachment soon.
Feel free to add me. I play mostly Killzone 2 and Warhawk... I also plan to be plumping up the Fat Princess when that releases as well...
I think I will pick up the little keyboard attachment soon.
Feel free to add me. I play mostly Killzone 2 and Warhawk... I also plan to be plumping up the Fat Princess when that releases as well...
TTP said:
Yeah, that's the biggest problem I found. I know the problem they were trying to fix with the autobalancing, but it's frustrating to find a really sweet match and not be able to get on the team your buddies are on.
I think Killzone 2 is one of the better multiplayer shooters I've bought in the last couple years. It's certainly more fun than any of last fall's crop of games (on either system).
But the matchmaking is very frustrating. I hope March's sales justify them putting some serious work into the multiplayer.
Cheech said:
That's not the solution either since your party will include both enemies and allies. The problem is KZ2 does not implement party management. It can't be solved by an external party chat system.
The last time Sebbb brought it up, GG is looking at it.
Text chat is not meant for in-game squad communication. The in-game voice messaging already does that. In KZ2, they decided to take a different approach (proximity based). I guess it's intended to keep the team together, but failed.
Text chat is useful for keeping tab on what your friends are doing, and keeping in touch with them. You can also multicast messages quickly (when you respawn, in the lobby or outside a game).
The best thing about the system is the "Room" concept. People in the room don't have to be in your friends list directly. The entire GAF user base can have a link to the room, and we can talk to 16 of them when they are online. That keeps my friends list clean.
It also helps to introduce new friends to me via GAF. A party system simply keeps a group of people together. It is not as powerful as the chat room for community building. In fact, the best course of action for Sony is to layer voice chat over the chat room. That way people who prefer to type can communicate with people who can talk. Not everyone is comfortable enough to talk/speak fluent English.
What you don't seem to understand is that tech wise, Sony is working backwards. MS got all of their features in as soon as the 360 launched. Games support these features. MS patented some of them (like custom soundtracks.)Cheech said:
What Sony has to do now is slowly add these new features in while (1) not breaking current games (2) keep the memory as low as possible, and (3) not break any patent rights. It's a very tricky thing to do.
If you think Sony should just add voice chat party support quickly and easily, well, you're wrong again and once again I'll have to quote myself:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=15322027&postcount=166
What you want is Sony to match every single thing that MS has done for their console while keeping it all free. That is impossible from a tech standpoint, impossible from a business standpoint. I actually do like text chat. I don't like some of the other features they've taken away, like movie playing while in the XMB and such. Approving of a firmware update isn't exactly "fellating" Sony, you weirdo. It means...gasp...we actually like these new features. And that doesn't mean I wouldn't like more features either.
Get a grip.
Sony has half-assed some things, but in this case I don't think they were trying to really mimic a Live feature here, I think that's where your approach to it is misguided. I think it was a genuine attempt to do something a little different to what's on Live, and in terms of providing something useful that is a bit different, it does that quite well IMO.
If you view everything through the (rose-tinted) lens of Live, of course you're going to upset where something else differs from it. I mentioned this phenomenon earlier, of people with Live-comparison complexes, unable to appreciate anything that differs from the Live 'standard' even if it's good on its own..and I think you may be falling into that trap.
If anything one could argue it's a much more fleshed out and 'game' appropriate implementation of the realtime text communication MS tried to bring with the MSN integration..if you must compare it to parties on Live, then even then I can see plusses and minuses for either next to each other (though their goals are somewhat different).
If you view everything through the (rose-tinted) lens of Live, of course you're going to upset where something else differs from it. I mentioned this phenomenon earlier, of people with Live-comparison complexes, unable to appreciate anything that differs from the Live 'standard' even if it's good on its own..and I think you may be falling into that trap.
If anything one could argue it's a much more fleshed out and 'game' appropriate implementation of the realtime text communication MS tried to bring with the MSN integration..if you must compare it to parties on Live, then even then I can see plusses and minuses for either next to each other (though their goals are somewhat different).
This is an example of a dumbass who instead of testing the new feature , goes and complains about it. Yes obviously its not for use when playing KZ2 online but for the lobby it is and SP gaming too. Also this is great for nighly SOCOM games since Im unable to use mic while everyone sleeps. Only thing they should fix is add more slots and put the ppls names on the right as a list with what they are playing.Cheech said:
The chat room feature is better then I originally thought.
Now it's really easy to start up the PS3, enter the GAF room and ask, "Hey, who wants to play LBP?" and get a group to play. The persistance nature of the room and the large number of users is what makes it useful IMO.
Now it's really easy to start up the PS3, enter the GAF room and ask, "Hey, who wants to play LBP?" and get a group to play. The persistance nature of the room and the large number of users is what makes it useful IMO.
Cheech said:
Or a console with a hard drive that stores files, or a browser that downloads them, being able to select any downloadable game from within another one, the ability to BUY movies (some in HD) and keep them on your hard drive, animated game previews, or you know, other things that absolutely cannot be done without a separate piece of software on another console because they ran out of memory.
If love my Xbox 360, but if Microsoft spent all that money on NXE and it still is less user-friendly than the generic, sterile XMB, I'll just stick what what works.
chubigans said:
I would GLADLY give Sony $50 a year for a similar experience to what I get on XBL. The fact they decided not to charge was their business decision; if they decide to maintain the status quo on their service, I will end up buying less PS3 games as a result.
Based on what Sony execs have said in the past, I think they had thought they'd pay for a lot of this stuff with selling virtual crap to people via Home. Now that that product is DOA, they need to come to the realization that you know what, free online is not a sustainable business model so we need to charge some bucks.
I know for some people the fact that the PSN was free when the PS3 launched was a selling point, but I have a feeling we're not going to get that super awesome unified online service until we start paying for it.
Cheech -
Are you saying that PSN as it is currently isn't sustainable for free online play, or that PSN if it had - say - cross game voice chat wouldn't be sustainable?
And if the latter..why? XMB already has group video and audio chat..it's not going to cost them any more to put it in the in-game OS. What it costs them is expertise and implementation time, which is why we haven't seen it yet... it doesn't incur (significant) ongoing infrastructural costs.
Neither does P2P online play, for that matter..which no one charges for except MS. Dedicated servers actually carry an infrastructural cost, but Sony has seemed more than willing to provide those for its own games for free.
I'd also hazard to guess that PSN is, at least, paying for itself overall. Free as a business model for online play works when it encourages more people to come online, play games, and buy more games online. PSN's revenue stream isn't simple Home items*..there is the store..
*Not to mention, Sony seemed quite proud of how much coin they'd extracted with home items..$1m or so in just the first few weeks. Undeserved? Stupid? Maybe, but if we're talking revenue generation, it seems to be working for them.
Are you saying that PSN as it is currently isn't sustainable for free online play, or that PSN if it had - say - cross game voice chat wouldn't be sustainable?
And if the latter..why? XMB already has group video and audio chat..it's not going to cost them any more to put it in the in-game OS. What it costs them is expertise and implementation time, which is why we haven't seen it yet... it doesn't incur (significant) ongoing infrastructural costs.
Neither does P2P online play, for that matter..which no one charges for except MS. Dedicated servers actually carry an infrastructural cost, but Sony has seemed more than willing to provide those for its own games for free.
I'd also hazard to guess that PSN is, at least, paying for itself overall. Free as a business model for online play works when it encourages more people to come online, play games, and buy more games online. PSN's revenue stream isn't simple Home items*..there is the store..
*Not to mention, Sony seemed quite proud of how much coin they'd extracted with home items..$1m or so in just the first few weeks. Undeserved? Stupid? Maybe, but if we're talking revenue generation, it seems to be working for them.
Speevy said:
I think the NXE does some things well, but as it stands right now it is essentially broken because of what I guess you'd call "gamerpic lag" when you hit the guide button. To reply to a previous poster, the MSN integration is also a joke because a) that has never worked well, and b) nobody really uses MSN.
I'm being straight-up truthful, I'm not here to just crap on the PS3. I actually prefer the simplicity and speed of the XMB. That's not the issue, though. What is the issue is Sony pushing out all these updates that don't fix the core problems of their online service. It's been a recurring theme since the system launched, and I'm gone from mildly amused to pissed off. Primarily because KZ2 is the first game I've bought for the system in quite some time that is truly stellar, but is kneecapped because the back-end service behind it is such garbage.
So, yes. Please, Sony, take my $50. Cash, check, or charge, I don't care.
PjotrStroganov
Member
Cheech said:
American right?:lol
I think the PS3 does a ton of things, but what is it you're mainly wanting?
In-game XMB is there, is it multi-user voice chat in game?
What is the essential group of features that would make this work for you? And by essential, I don't mean things like the clock. I mean, when you play Killzone 2, what can you absolutely not do in any way, shape, or form that Sony should add today?
In-game XMB is there, is it multi-user voice chat in game?
What is the essential group of features that would make this work for you? And by essential, I don't mean things like the clock. I mean, when you play Killzone 2, what can you absolutely not do in any way, shape, or form that Sony should add today?
gofreak said:
It was apparently 1 million in the first 4 days which it took the video store a week to accomplish. And that was back then when there was a huge dearth of home items. Now, all I see is a gazillion people walking around in those hideously overpriced SFIV costumes, or other pay-for attire. Sony must be making a grip on that. Plus all the third-party advertising.
Nightz said:
.
Cheech said:
This response is exactly correct. Sony can't have it both ways; the relative price difference is only relevant if there is feature parity. Put another way, if two things are of vastly different quality, then it's completely intuitive that they're priced differently.
What's wrong, however, is someone earlier in the thread saying that Sony couldn't offer the same features without charging. This is obviously incorrect. If their business strategy to entice customers away from Microsoft was to offer equivalent features for free, then that is a valid business decision, in which the revenue lost in not charging for PSN is made up by increased sales of premium content and a greater install base. Therefore, they _could_ offer the same features, but don't, either because of patent concerns, or because their early OS design decisions have boxed them into a corner that they aren't willing to spend development resources to get out of.
I own all 3 systems, and to be honest, I _like_ the PS3 more for a lot of small reasons. It's quieter, has a much longer controller battery life, uses standard connectors where possible, allows the user to upgrade the harddrive, allows linux to be installed, and has a ton of unique games on PSN. That being said, the experience that PSN offers for communication is plainly and obviously inferior to Live. I usually buy primarily single-player multi-platform releases on PS3, but I can't do the same or primarily multi-player games because the experience of playing with friends is markedly worse. For me, multi-player gaming is a chance to catch up and hang out with friends while playing games; to replicate the living room experience. The party system is perfect for this, and as long as the PS3 has no equivalent, I'll keep buying multiplayer games on the 360.
Cheech said:
To me it doesn't work well in a game context because managing multiple 1-1 IM sessions is a bit impractical in that context..it's not really suited to a game environment.
My only point was that it didn't really work well..but that Sony's implementation of text chat among a group alongside games does work well.
Cheech said:
Maybe this is where we're talking passed each other..what we all consider to be 'core issues'.
For me a core issue with PSN has been that 'lonely' feeling of not being connected with your friends across games. Yes, there was the friends list, but no one messaged one another just to chew the fat..it was an occasional use thing, not for casual contact. XBLers have raved about the feeling of 'connectedness' on Live across all games etc. and that's been missing from PSN. I think this update, the text chat stuff, 'fixes' that to a large extent. Connecting to TTP's GAF chat every time I log on, I've feel the platform has never been stickier or as friendly or as 'connected' for groups. To that extent I think this has been one of the best and most welcome features added to the service since launch.
Perhaps you think the core problems lie elsewhere, and that's where differences in opinion are stemming from..?
gofreak said:
I think it was Chubigans who made a pretty good point where he mentioned that part of the *real* problem here may be anything from the hardware limitations (e.g. not enough memory to do a persistant voice party system), to Microsoft's patents. We don't really know.
The thing that annoys me with both Sony and Microsoft is they don't really communicate these things to their customers. Microsoft used to do it through Major Nelson, but I think they locked him down to the point where he is basically just a full-time marketing tool and nothing more. His podcasts haven't been entertaining in months, I feel like I'm being just constantly sold every time I listen.
gofreak said:
The only thing I can figure is that dedicated servers are much cheaper than software engineers.
Microsoft puts a lot of money into things that aren't necessarily visible but have a huge impact on the online "experience". We've come a long way since the days of clicking and picking a random server in Quake and hoping for the best.
The biggest mistake Sony made in the online gaming space this gen, above all else, is not developing a unified gaming service and then REQUIRING game developers to use it. That's not a "Microsoft" thing, it's just good business sense. It's cheaper for the developers, and will result in a better experience for their customers.
I don't know. I suspect that part of it may be the Japanese hesitancy towards online gaming. You see strange things like the MGSO/Mario Kart scenarios and start to wonder if there is something the Japanese just do not fundamentally understand about the desire of gamers to get together and play games. And, to do it as easily and quickly as possible, and remain together throughout the duration.
It's like when we were kids and we'd play Jacks, get sick of it, then go play kickball. At the end of the day, all we want as gamers is the ability to have a smooth game and stay in constant communication with our friends.
Cheech said:
We'll see..but looking at how Sony rolls out stuff slooowwwlly, I wouldn't be surprised if this is simply a 'time' issue.
Cheech said:
This is true, but a certain base of features is universal, and is growing..I figured if this was what your concerns are, you'd quite welcome a new addition to the in-game xmb that facilitates cross-game communication in a much much better way than before.
Cheech said:
Constant communication is unlocked with text-chat...dare I ask if you've used it with a decent group of friends or one of the GAF rooms? Did you not see how it brings that feeling of being in constant touch with your group?
It doesn't (yet) automate party management (in terms of inviting and pulling people into games automagically) or the like, but it brings that constant feeling of being together across games.
Musashi Wins!
FLAWLESS VICTOLY!
mh56 said:
No one knows. But yea, across game, continuous chat with someone or someones on my friends list is really what I'd like.
Tideas said:
Last summer, a buddy of mine got his 360 stolen, and another buddy had his shipped to Mexico for RROD.
So, Battlefield: BC drops, and we're frothing at the mouth to play this game. We'd normally buy it on the 360, but thanks to the delightful combo of home invasion and the worst game hardware design since the N-Gage, we bought it for our PS3s.
The party system for the game was hacked on using the PS3's mail system, but it worked well. However, voice was 100% broken. It didn't even PRETEND to work.
So, we ended up using our computers and running a Ventrilo server to make it happen. After those two dudes got working 360s back, we ended up using a Halo 3 lobby (since it was pre-party chat).
My point is, if you want a well maintained and unified service amongst all your games for a console, it costs money. A LOT of money. And, apparently more money than Sony is taking in at the moment with PS3 games and Home. So, while you may be happy with the performance of the online gaming experience in game X, there is no guarantee the next PS3 online game you buy will provide the same experience.
your saying to get unified chat working across the xmb is gonna costs sony mad money? it doesnt have to work for every game, it could just work like the text chat system, why would you and your friendd even have to load halo 3 to get voice woriking? couldnt you just use the chat party?Cheech said:
Musashi Wins!
FLAWLESS VICTOLY!
Mik2121 said:
He's probably under 30. Does anyone under 30 use MSN?
I gotta agree with him yea its probably the largest IM service, I even use it, but as people get older, more and more of my friends have stopped ussing i, going from when I was 18 like 4 years ago, our whole grade in school used it, but now...only a few friends use it, everyone uses fucking facebook to communicate now yea it sucksMik2121 said:
yea cheech but your making it sound like getting a unified voice system in psn is gonnna cost sony a lot of money, I bet there gonna release this sort of system by year end