• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • Hi Guest. We've rebooted and consolidated our Communities section, so be sure to check it out and subscribe to some threads. Thanks!

News Rumor PS5 could possibly play PS1, PS2 and PS3 discs

Hostile_18

Member
Jun 7, 2015
1,534
724
470
UK
It's crazy how a few select people praise BC on a PS (even though it won't happen), while shitting all over BC on the Xbox. Really shows how far out fanboyism can get you.
It's a minority and the internet ;) Personally speaking the more back compatible every console is the better. As a gamer preserving legacy is important to me and as a fan of tech the more a single box can do the better. That's why I love my Microwave/oven after all :messenger_tears_of_joy:
 

TBiddy

Member
Mar 16, 2015
2,522
405
415
Denmark
It's a minority and the internet ;) Personally speaking the more back compatible every console is the better. As a gamer preserving legacy is important to me and as a fan of tech the more a single box can do the better. That's why I love my Microwave/oven after all :messenger_tears_of_joy:
You're right. And yes, BC for everyone is win/win. It would be awesome to see a PS5 with full BC all the way back to PS1.. but the chances of that happening are slim to none.
 

SleepDoctor

Gold Member
Nov 11, 2019
211
207
345
I don't mind it. More options, the better but I wouldn't be bothered if it isn't.

Only time Ive used bc on the xbox was out of boredom cuz i couldn't decide what to play. I used it to play Double Dragon Neon. Hate it doesn't have online coop tho.
 

Hostile_18

Member
Jun 7, 2015
1,534
724
470
UK
You're right. And yes, BC for everyone is win/win. It would be awesome to see a PS5 with full BC all the way back to PS1.. but the chances of that happening are slim to none.
I definitely think the chances are higher than that. Of the 4 main consoles one wasnt eligible for BC, 2 had BC and only the PS4 didn't. That's a good track record.

Given the market conditions now I'd say our chances are around 50% tbh.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CatLady

01011001

Member
Dec 4, 2018
414
535
350
Too late, already bought a ps3 to play the original Nier.
bad decision, the 360 version runs better and looks slightly better. it also loads way faster when installed to the hard drive.

rule of thumb: if you want to play a multiplatform last gen game, 90% of the time the 360 is the better choice. they usually run better or look better, or both.
 
Last edited:

Phase

Member
Sep 25, 2019
517
803
495
You still might benefit from any improvements the emulators make and some attainable games added to the PSN store digitally etc.
True. I was tired of waiting for them to put it on the PS store. I won't be getting a ps5 until years down the line, if I get one at all.
 

Trimesh

Member
Jun 8, 2019
188
213
255
I definitely think the chances are higher than that. Of the 4 main consoles one wasnt eligible for BC, 2 had BC and only the PS4 didn't. That's a good track record.

Given the market conditions now I'd say our chances are around 50% tbh.
The thing is you can also read that as reflecting decreasing interest in providing backwards compatibility. The PS3 started with full PS2 BC, then emulation based and then dropped entirely. Since there was apparently no great outcry over this, the PS4 was then released without any BC at all - and still went on to be very successful.
 

Komatsu

Gold Member
Oct 17, 2016
576
1,121
700
Between Chicago and NYC
My day one PS3 could play every single game for every single Sony platform ever released.

In fact, the PS4 is as of today still the only Sony platform ever released that couldn’t play PSX games.

Microsoft’s BC program was fantastic and it’s now the benchmark against which future efforts will be judged. Very happy with playing Witcher 2 in 4K with enhanced textures, KotOR in 4K or Panzer Dragoon Orta in 4K60FPS glory.
 

DeepEnigma

Gold Member
Dec 3, 2013
27,605
32,511
1,170
It's crazy how a few select people praise BC on a PS (even though it won't happen), while shitting all over BC on the Xbox. Really shows how far out fanboyism can get you.
It’s very non self-reflective isn’t it?
 

Rayderism

Member
Mar 4, 2017
411
207
275
Cleveland, Ohio
I don't want any BC to be dependent on digital solely. Digital BC is dependent on licensing to "allow" an older gen game to be downloaded and run on the newer gen system., which ultimately limits what games you even have a choice of getting. We NEED the BC to be physical disk support to bypass licensing issues. Have digital BC, sure, but also physical BC for the games that never get released in digital form.

To me, it's not true BC if it's not physical BC. If I have to re-buy a digital version of a PS1/2/3/4 game I already own physically on a PS5, that's not really "true BC", IMO.

Even if it ends up only being PS4 BC, it needs to support the physical disks as well as digital.

I know a lot of people don't care about BC in the least, but I do, and how soon I buy a PS5 after it releases is highly dependent on many aspects of its ability to play older consoles, and how it goes about doing it......and how many older systems it will support.
 

leo-j

Member
Jun 27, 2018
187
161
245
Ps4 BC yes. Maybe even ps2 and ps1 physical BC with an up res to 2160p. But no ps3. I only expect ps4 BC along with an even better ps now giving you access to ps1-ps4 and eventually ps5 games.
 

01011001

Member
Dec 4, 2018
414
535
350
Ps4 BC yes. Maybe even ps2 and ps1 physical BC with an up res to 2160p. But no ps3. I only expect ps4 BC along with an even better ps now giving you access to ps1-ps4 and eventually ps5 games.
I could see a full Back Compat with PS1 and PS2,
and for the PS3 they do it like Microsoft on Xbox One, they manually adjust and test games to be compatible. I also see no way of making the PS5 100% backwards compatible with the PS3... like no way...
 

Inviusx

Member
Jan 4, 2016
1,203
694
410
If it's done in a way where at launch every single PS1/PS2/PS3 disc will play in a PS5 then yes, that would be unprecedented and amazing.

If it's a "and these select titles will run via backwards compatability" deal then who cares.
 
  • Like
Reactions: anthraticus

01011001

Member
Dec 4, 2018
414
535
350
If it's done in a way where at launch every single PS1/PS2/PS3 disc will play in a PS5 then yes, that would be unprecedented and amazing.

If it's a "and these select titles will run via backwards compatability" deal then who cares.
well it depends how many would be compatible.
the launch PS3 was also not compatible with all PS2 games, some simply didn't work, but more than enough did.
 

Inviusx

Member
Jan 4, 2016
1,203
694
410
well it depends how many would be compatible.
the launch PS3 was also not compatible with all PS2 games, some simply didn't work, but more than enough did.
Exactly, either go all in or don't bother. Find the games that don't work, figure out why and fix the issue.

If Sony takes it seriously I see it as a possibility and one of the best selling points of the PS5. Their entire history in one console.
 
Last edited:

01011001

Member
Dec 4, 2018
414
535
350
Exactly, either go all in or don't bother. Find the games that don't work, figure out why and fix the issue.

If Sony takes it seriously I see it as a possibility and one of the best selling points of the PS5. Their entire history in one console.
well for PS2 and PS1 that should not be an issue, but for PS3 that's not possible I think.
even 360 and og Xbox gave Microsoft issues and those are way easier to emulate than the PS3.
if, say, all PS3 exclusives and maybe half of the overall library work day 1, I would be happy... but I won't get my hopes up.
 

Dr.Morris79

Member
Nov 19, 2018
336
323
270
Essex
I am very sceptical about this, especially in the ongoing remaster craze and with how Sony handled the topic this gen by releasing a shitty PS1 emulator and forcing people to pay quite a lot for shitty PS2 ports.
The Ps2 version of Psychonauts on the Playstation 4 is a fucking disgrace, that and Max Payne.
 

bhunachicken

Member
Apr 11, 2018
459
579
345
I can't remember where I read it (might've been Eurogamer) but when MS first did BC on the Xbox One, Halo was running at 5fps.

One of the playtesters went through the entire game like that, to see if it worked.

I'll repeat that: one of the playtesters went through the whole of Halo's campaign at 5fps.

Wow.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Inviusx

01011001

Member
Dec 4, 2018
414
535
350
The Ps2 version of Psychonauts on the Playstation 4 is a fucking disgrace, that and Max Payne.
that has to do with the original PS2 versions being shit in the first place tho... not much the emulator can save there. Especially the PS2 versions of Max Payne 1 and 2 are just absolutely terrible. the Xbox ports where just eons ahead... maybe because of the hardware in play but maybe because they were ported by 2 separate teams and the team that made the PS2 ports... could be both


I can't remember where I read it (might've been Eurogamer) but when MS first did BC on the Xbox One, Halo was running at 5fps.

One of the playtesters went through the entire game like that, to see if it worked.

I'll repeat that: one of the playtesters went through the whole of Halo's campaign at 5fps.

Wow.
JESUS FUCKING CHRIST... a true warrior!
 
Last edited:

Sign

Member
Jun 4, 2012
316
275
565
Ideally, it would also play digital copies of psp / vita games as well. Regardless . . . Awwwww yissss finally get to play my copy of Dragon Quest VIII.
 

01011001

Member
Dec 4, 2018
414
535
350
Ideally, it would also play digital copies of psp / vita games as well. Regardless . . . Awwwww yissss finally get to play my copy of Dragon Quest VIII.
this would also be super easy to accomplish, at least PSP... because the Vitas has all the Camera, Touch Screen and back Touch Pad stuff going on...
but the PSP is extremely easy to emulate (I remember playing Crisis Core at 4K full speed on my Shield K1 Tablet connected to my TV via mini HDMI)

so yes, if they go for the back compat stuff, PSP would be super easy to support and would be a sad omission.
 

Agent X

Member
Jun 7, 2004
7,212
30
1,535
New Jersey
I still have all of my old PS games. I wouldn't need to buy anything. It'd be nice to see them all playable on one system, but when the PS4 can easily play PSX and PS2 games, but Sony decides to resell them instead, I'll believe it when I see it.
The sad thing is that they don't even sell PS1 games for the PS4.

I think it would be great for them to bring PS1 games (discs and digital downloads) to PS5. However, doing this might also raise the question of why they never bothered with PS1 games on PS4, when several other prior Sony systems (including their portables) had that ability.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Negotiator

AndrewRyan

Member
Jul 23, 2015
144
89
295
It would definitely make me more likely to purchase a PS5 sooner if it were ps4/ps3/ps2 compatible. I play mostly on PC with the PS4 primarily for exclusives. My plan is to wait for the first major PS5 refresh a few years after release but full backwards compatibility would be tempting to buy it more towards launch. Still have a decent library of older games but don't have the older consoles hooked up since it looks so messy around the tv.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nimoy

Hostile_18

Member
Jun 7, 2015
1,534
724
470
UK
It would definitely make me more likely to purchase a PS5 sooner if it were ps4/ps3/ps2 compatible. I play mostly on PC with the PS4 primarily for exclusives. My plan is to wait for the first major PS5 refresh a few years after release but full backwards compatibility would be tempting to buy it more towards launch. Still have a decent library of older games but don't have the older consoles hooked up since it looks so messy around the tv.
I often find console refreshes less quality in some of the parts/features in order to cut costs (unless were talking about Pro/X performance ones, but who knows if were going to get those after how strong these consoles will be, relative to the original PS4 at time of release).

I just bought the PS2 version of one of the greatest games ever made... Deus ex. At this rate if there isn't back compat I'm going to have to get a PS2 😂
 

Hostile_18

Member
Jun 7, 2015
1,534
724
470
UK
The person who leaked this said "See you Tuesday" on Twitter Hmmm.

He did accurately predict the Last of us 2 release two months before they announced it (before delay).
 
  • Fire
Reactions: Negotiator

Knightime_X

Member
Dec 17, 2018
100
75
215
If I can download ps1-3 games and play them on PS5 without the need for ps now I will need to win the lottery for the amount of purchases I will be making.

Now if only you can change native resolutions and such I will be immensely happy.
playing the discs is cool but give me digital downloads pls.
 

Trimesh

Member
Jun 8, 2019
188
213
255
The sad thing is that they don't even sell PS1 games for the PS4.

I think it would be great for them to bring PS1 games (discs and digital downloads) to PS5. However, doing this might also raise the question of why they never bothered with PS1 games on PS4, when several other prior Sony systems (including their portables) had that ability.
If you mean as downloads, possibly they just thought that people weren't going to be interested. If you mean the original discs, the drive in the PS4 is incapable of reading any CD format based media at all because it only contains 405nm (blue/violet) and 650nm (red) laser diodes used for Bluray and DVD respectively. The PS3 optical drive supported those and also 780nm (infrared) used for reading CDs and CD-ROMS. This is also the reason that the PS4 can't play audio CDs.

If you put an audio CD or CD-ROM into the PS4 with the cover off you can see the drive trying both the Bluray laser and the DVD one, then giving up.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Jun 7, 2004
13,891
2,166
1,975
If you mean as downloads, possibly they just thought that people weren't going to be interested. If you mean the original discs, the drive in the PS4 is incapable of reading any CD format based media at all because it only contains 405nm (blue/violet) and 650nm (red) laser diodes used for Bluray and DVD respectively. The PS3 optical drive supported those and also 780nm (infrared) used for reading CDs and CD-ROMS. This is also the reason that the PS4 can't play audio CDs.

If you put an audio CD or CD-ROM into the PS4 with the cover off you can see the drive trying both the Bluray laser and the DVD one, then giving up.
I thought so too, but looking at the manuals and drive specs sheet, it looks like the infrared laser is there, but CD playback is not enabled...
 
Jul 6, 2015
3,861
1,001
490
If I can download ps1-3 games and play them on PS5 without the need for ps now I will need to win the lottery for the amount of purchases I will be making.

Now if only you can change native resolutions and such I will be immensely happy.
playing the discs is cool but give me digital downloads pls.
Digital will almost certainly be available but only for games they can get the licenses to, just like Microsoft's BC, physical is the only way to get complete BC.
 

Trimesh

Member
Jun 8, 2019
188
213
255
I thought so too, but looking at the manuals and drive specs sheet, it looks like the infrared laser is there, but CD playback is not enabled...
Or the documentation is wrong. All I can say is that the laser diode assembly in the PS3 optical drive has 5 pins - ground, monitor diode and the anodes for the 3 lasers. The one in the PS4 only has 4 pins, and since there is no sign of an external monitor diode, so I have to assume they are ground, monitor and the DVD and BR lasers.
 
  • Triggered
Reactions: Negotiator

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Jun 7, 2004
13,891
2,166
1,975
Or the documentation is wrong. All I can say is that the laser diode assembly in the PS3 optical drive has 5 pins - ground, monitor diode and the anodes for the 3 lasers. The one in the PS4 only has 4 pins, and since there is no sign of an external monitor diode, so I have to assume they are ground, monitor and the DVD and BR lasers.
... or it is a mix of both worlds and the disc reader is a regular Blu-Ray drive with triple lasers (FCC and CE requirements that could get them fined For not disclosing it), but they disconnected / did not connect the fifth pin to remove support for CD.

Still proves ManaByte ManaByte point that the drive could read CD’s and disprove it at the same time as it is physically prevented from doing that... and no custom FW/SW hack has given it the ability to read CD’s ( DeepEnigma DeepEnigma N Negotiator ).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Negotiator

Esppiral

Member
Nov 19, 2018
340
394
280
I've heard of that, the only game that I'd have with that problem is Metal Gear Solid 4, none of my Saturn, Dreamcast, psx, PS2 and older game media has suffered from this.
 

Negotiator

Member
Jun 28, 2011
4,625
1,311
750
Or the documentation is wrong. All I can say is that the laser diode assembly in the PS3 optical drive has 5 pins - ground, monitor diode and the anodes for the 3 lasers. The one in the PS4 only has 4 pins, and since there is no sign of an external monitor diode, so I have to assume they are ground, monitor and the DVD and BR lasers.
Even if that's the case, they can rectify it on the PS5 (the cost should be minimal). Besides, the PS4 is more than capable to emulate digital PS1 games from the PS store.
 

Trimesh

Member
Jun 8, 2019
188
213
255
... or it is a mix of both worlds and the disc reader is a regular Blu-Ray drive with triple lasers (FCC and CE requirements that could get them fined For not disclosing it), but they disconnected / did not connect the fifth pin to remove support for CD.

Still proves ManaByte ManaByte point that the drive could read CD’s and disprove it at the same time as it is physically prevented from doing that... and no custom FW/SW hack has given it the ability to read CD’s ( DeepEnigma DeepEnigma N Negotiator ).
I don't think the pin was cut off it looks very much like it was never there at all - here are some images I lifted from the net of the KES-400A (used in the PS3) and the KES-490A (used in the PS4):



KES-400 (used in the PS3) - this has a triple wavelength laser diode in a 5 pin metal can


KES-490A (Used in the PS4) - this has a 4 pin plastic encapsulated (presumably dual wavelength) laser diode

The other thing is that the disc check logic is clearly different - if you put a CD into PS4 drive, it tries to detect the disc using the 405nm laser then switches to 650nm to check for a DVD and then stops. If you do the same thing with a PS3, then it switches to the 780nm laser, finds the disc and starts reading the TOC. I don't think it's a licensing issue because at this point pretty much all of the CD patents have expired. The only thing I can think of is that someone thought that removing the CD playback functions at the hardware level would save some money and most people wouldn't care anyway.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Negotiator

Negotiator

Member
Jun 28, 2011
4,625
1,311
750
Someone could argue that the 780nm infrared wavelength is not visible by the human eye, but good point about the pins anyway.

Still doesn't explain why the official PS4 manual mentions the CD laser though. Has anyone dissected the optical drive assembly to see how many lasers it contains?
 

Trimesh

Member
Jun 8, 2019
188
213
255
Someone could argue that the 780nm infrared wavelength is not visible by the human eye, but good point about the pins anyway.

Still doesn't explain why the official PS4 manual mentions the CD laser though. Has anyone dissected the optical drive assembly to see how many lasers it contains?
Even if you can't see the laser, you can see the lens sweeping up and down looking for the focus point - and on the PS4 it doesn't do that. Once it finishes the DVD focus search (with visible red light) it just shuts down, the lens retracts and the spindle stops. I have taken apart both of these optical pickups (dead ones that had been replaced in consoles) - the KES-490 is definitely simpler, but it's hard to tell if that's just being a later design or down to reduced functionality.
 

Hostile_18

Member
Jun 7, 2015
1,534
724
470
UK
Just ordered this series that was absolutely essential to my collection (for the price of one modern game).

 

Justin9mm

Member
May 9, 2018
501
323
290
Melbourne, Australia
Theres been recent comments that there still working on it been ,*fully* compatible with all PS4 games "trying to find a solution" as little as a month ago. :)

At the very least your digital PS4 Games in your library would be backwards capable otherwise it would be suicide for them. They need a reason for people to make the immediate switch from PS4 to PS5 and rendering your digital PS4 games useless with the current tech we have now would be devastating to Sony, I'm willing to bet that all digital titles from the PS Store will be BC. Otherwise what would of been the point of this generation trying to get us to convert over to digital in the first place, all that effort would of been for nothing. It's not good business. PS4 Games will work.
 

Badenergytroll

Junior Member
Aug 28, 2007
2,754
250
1,050
I bet there will be a "Ps3 Classics" section on the PS5 PS Store, with games like Infamous, Killzone 2, Resistance, ect. Probably emulated in 4k. I'd wager that a year from now we will all be discussing how well these games have aged.
 
Last edited:

Hostile_18

Member
Jun 7, 2015
1,534
724
470
UK
Seems like something big is going to happen at the Game awards today, the account is very active. Could today be the day we get confirmation?



 
Last edited:

Hostile_18

Member
Jun 7, 2015
1,534
724
470
UK
Yeah, don't call us "haters" for knowing better than blindly believing random tweets.
If he is the real deal, that will be shown soon.
Oh yeah I wouldn't take it personally I think it's just a bit of playfulness on his part, we shall soon see as you say :)
 

synce

Member
Sep 18, 2012
3,543
19
515
People just have to use their common sense. What reason does Sony have for incorporating BC for PS1-3 into PS5? Clearly wasn't necessary for PS4 in terms of sales. It's just money lost any way you look at it. I think the only time something like this makes sense is if they're way behind on market share and need to provide better value.