and you are again there to defend the impossible warrior.
i respect you lol
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PS5 Die Shot has been revealed
- Thread starter LivingD3AD
- Start date
i respect you lol
OptimistPrime
Member
I hope this post is satire.
is marketing brainwash and brand loyalty and above all ignorance
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HoofHearted
Member
how about...
They're both REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY REALLY....
REALLY REALLY REALLY...
.... REALLY close to RDNA2?
HoofHearted
Member
DaGwaphics
Member
You saying you think PS5 is RDNA2 just because AMD said so....
Okay, maybe it is, I guess those AMD folks might know a little about it, maybe...
FatKingBallman
Banned
And TimDog, Blue, MrX, Gavin Stevens, Kirby Louise, Shpeshal Ed, Fatal Enigma, Astal, Senjutsu... Oh yes, he can't go against himself...
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Member
You know now that you bring it up, he did say that quote about MS 'bragging' of RDNA 2 in alluding to PS5 being RDNA 3 (or having features that'd be in RDNA 3)
. Just from me watching their content a lot, I get a tinge of smugness with him in the way he presents his content, where at least in the console side of things there's tonal usage and phrasing seemingly in favor of Sony and against favor of Microsoft, like changes in vocal inflections and the such. I think that's something they could improve on.And just having finished watching the part of their latest podcast where they go into the PS5 SOC, there's still stubbornness from him in wanting to admit anything shown of the x-rays is even legit because it hasn't been officiated, when the truth is the window where Sony would've officiated much or any of this stuff has seemingly passed. And the reasoning he gave near the end for why he alluded to IC or unified L3$ for example, to explain the performance results between the consoles in 3P games, well honestly that was whimsical reaching. Figure people into following tech to the degree they do would not jump to fantasy customizations when more logical things based on what Sony and Microsoft already have told us officially (or could be concretely documented) would've served better even if less "exciting".
All that said tho it was worth watching just to see the proverbial bodies pile up under the bus and to MLID's credit there were/have been others pushing ahead with the crazier RDNA 3 custom tech angle, he even named some of them. He's still insisting that Sony've done something with the caches but at least they seem to have settled on that probably just being the cache scrubbers (which, in all likelihood, those could be a reason for some of the results we're seeing, just depends on how easily Sony have made the use of those scrubbers, what type of scrubbing they're using (I'm guessing patrol scrubbing would be easier for devs and more "automated"?), etc.).
This one's been my favorite for the entertainment value but MGB's was the best for being genuinely apologetic for leading his audience on perhaps too strongly. And to MGB's credit he has not claimed to be an insider or connected to insiders in the industry.
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HoofHearted
Member
Perhaps.. they did invent the damn marketing term ...You saying you think PS5 is RDNA2 just because AMD said so....
Okay, maybe it is, I guess those AMD folks might know a little about it, maybe...
That being said - I'm more interested in the actual technical breakdown of the die shot more than marketing speak of "iz dis RDNA2?" ... give me the same level of detail on versions like locuza did in his XSX video ... THAT's something actually interesting to discuss..
....not whether or not Infinity Cache is included or not..
I'm so damn waiting for itPerhaps.. they did invent the damn marketing term ...
That being said - I'm more interested in the actual technical breakdown of the die shot more than marketing speak of "iz dis RDNA2?" ... give me the same level of detail on versions like locuza did in his XSX video ... THAT's something actually interesting to discuss..
....not whether or not Infinity Cache is included or not..
VAVA Mk2
Member
Sony's marketing said SM MM was exclusive to PS5 until the fall showcased they backtracked and said it was coming to PS5. Same with Horizon FW. Jim Ryan lied about that being PS5 exclusive before they back tracked 3 months later about. Disingenuous at best, lying at worse.
John Wick
Member
Bigger offender of what? Post on here what he said was hard confirmed fact.
John Wick
Member
Ok fangirl/cheerleader
Go and ask Locuza if PS5 is RDNA1.5? Then ask him the specs for it
Ok, I'll take your word on that.
Now, what about the 4 games I mentioned? Because it seems some ppl get hung up on Miles and HFW, and just dismiss the others that are PS5 exclusive.
Some ppl are acting like every PS5 game announced for PS5 only has a PS4 version. They dont. And that could still change. But for now.... 2 games dont equal a full blown lie about believing in generations.
DaGwaphics
Member
Relax, it's a figure of speech in a video game forum not a legal dispute.
All these types include that disclaimer, but they still trade in the idea that the sources they have are accurate. Espousing the same ideas many times over is still misleading despite the disclaimer, especially when the ideas are really being sold. That's why the content creators dance when they need to in this context.
I feel bad for this thread, I've really leaned in on helping this be a trainwreck. My bad. Everything is off topic. LOL
Also, I'm not advocating for these YT personalities to be burned at the stake, I'll probably keep watching myself. I just find the dancing amusing, that is all.
Also, I'm not advocating for these YT personalities to be burned at the stake, I'll probably keep watching myself. I just find the dancing amusing, that is all.
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OptimistPrime
Member
At this point I’m thinking the PS6 will be nothing but cache scrubbers all the way through.
Loxus
Member
Where in the world did you see me say the PS5 and XBSX isn't RDNA 2?
1) we do have photos of RDNA2
2) PS5's APU is damn near carbon copy of the RDNA2 Big Navi layout, minus the Infinity Cache
3) XSX APU's layout is practically the same as the one used by the Xbox One (yeah, the first one, the always connected thing that got trolled to the moon by Yoshida with the funny "how to share a game with your friend")
So what? They are both RDNA2 based and have a different layout for different priorities and latencies. You can't compare to other chip's layout.
I said it's laid out similar, learn to read.
ethomaz
Banned
Yes... it is half the size.
The point is what are the differences? Nobody has a answer.
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Clear
CliffyB's Cock Holster
The thing that's bugging me about this whole topic is the way its actively avoiding all the actually interesting stuff.
The reality is that PS5 APU gives over more die space to "other" function than the entire cpu part! And yet, because there's no easy analog with PC parts we're supposed not to be interested in why its there and what its doing in conjunction with the rest of the chip?
Remember this isn't a co-processor soldered onto the board, its positioned just as centrally as the cpu meaning it likely has just as much access. Its a pretty big deal, especially as you cannot conflate transistor usage with functional impact. MS in their documentation repeatedly referenced that a lot of the new featureset occupies relatively little room on the die.
The reality is that PS5 APU gives over more die space to "other" function than the entire cpu part! And yet, because there's no easy analog with PC parts we're supposed not to be interested in why its there and what its doing in conjunction with the rest of the chip?
Remember this isn't a co-processor soldered onto the board, its positioned just as centrally as the cpu meaning it likely has just as much access. Its a pretty big deal, especially as you cannot conflate transistor usage with functional impact. MS in their documentation repeatedly referenced that a lot of the new featureset occupies relatively little room on the die.
Knitted Knight
Banned
How many iterations of diagrams from twitter randoms until we get an official one from Sony or a proper leak...
Should be a poll on the OP.
Should be a poll on the OP.
alabtrosMyster
Banned
ethomaz
Banned
Actually it is pretty hard to know what it is if you have no example in another chip.
Alder
Neo Member
It reduces the efficiency and precision of the core in general, besides reducing the physical floating point registers.
But I believe that you have to be satisfied, it seems to me that this cut was to enable energy and thermal space for GPU to reach high clock.
ethomaz
Banned
That is not true.
You can have all the precision even with less silicon... in fact the lower precision theory was the first to be removed from the list.
Looks more like they cut things like FPADD from the unit.
From what the experts believes the native 256bits precision is still there.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
especially when their cross gen game looks so good we all thought it was next gen.
Now if they downgrade the shit out of this game come launch then yes we can start to criticize Sony on the same level as Microsoft.
Alder
Neo Member
alabtrosMyster
Banned
I would say it's at best RDNA 1.3 or 1.45, but no way it's 1.5.
I'm an expert in version numbering schemes, I tell you it's not that close to RDNA 2, the xbox is full Direct X 12 Ultimate RDNA 2, this is why it's in a league of it's own in terms of performance. I mean, you can't even compare series X to other consoles, it's not even fair.
ToTTenTranz
Banned
To be fair, the PS4 Pro's rapid packed math was confirmed by Cerny pretty late in the game IIRC (almost half a year after release?).
Besides, there's still one big peripheral coming for the PS5 that warrants its own set of optimizations, which is PSVR2. It could very well be that features like foveated rendering will only be mentioned when PSVR2 is announced.
Speaking of which:
Displayport over USB!
So VirtualLink got shelved in the Summer of 2020, but a couple of months later AMD launches a line of GPUs supporting it and Sony supports it on the PS5?
Maybe it's coming back in some other yet-unannounced form? I did hear there are a lot of new headsets coming out in 2021.
Regardless, it looks like PSVR2 will be using a single cable for power, comms and display. No more dedicated power bricks, breakout boxes and half a dozen cables running around. One wire between the headset and the console and that's it. Great news!
This could also be the reason why the PS5 is using a 350W PSU despite showing the same power consumption as the SeriesX. The VirtualLink can send up to 27W of power towards the headset. Subtracting the wattage difference needed for powering VirtualLink from the PS5's PSU would put it practically with the same power requirements as the SeriesX (315 vs 323W).
PaintTinJr
Member
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't those RDNA2 PC card clocks a boost clock - meaning not a sustained game clock? And on the PS5, it is a continuous boost clock - IIRC from Road to PS5 wording - so not actually an AMD boost clock or an AMD game clock, no?
Kenpachii
Member
No RDNA1 card can push PS5 clocks let alone for a mass product like the PS5.
RDNA2 easily can hit it.
I am convinced its RDNA2, but things could have been cut for the sake of heat / power control. Still makes it RDNA2 tho.
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PaintTinJr
Member
The predetermined and pre-emptive clock changing on the PS5, multiple times per frame - every 2ms IIRC - seems like something beyond current AMD products IMHO, and was even noted by Cerny as the reason they had to cap the clock at 2.23Ghz to make sure the thermal control logic was stable - paraphrasing a touch there - so presumably using that control logic, and just beefing up power supply and cooling for edge cases would have allowed them to take the clock higher.
Cerny's self posing Road to Ps5 question, about whether they would minimally use 256bit instructions, or major 256bit instruction usage - that can draw a lot of power - also brings in the continuous boost clocking topic IMO, because if by using pre-emptive variable clocks can keep power usage the same, you would then assume that circuit impedance - for the active circuitry - would remain constant too.
So if block design previously left space between logic/transistors to accommodate a temporal latency for heat build up in a functional block - to keep it stable when resistance rose - then maybe with the new paradigm shift to continuous boosting even nullifies the heavy power draw of 256bit instructions, and has given them latitude to even reduce spacing for transistors, because the heat never comes in the normal way, because clocking pre-emptively avoids the rise in resistance.
/probably wishful thinking and completely wrong, but Cerny definitely seems happy about the self posing question, as though the option was available because they had a solution.
Cerny's self posing Road to Ps5 question, about whether they would minimally use 256bit instructions, or major 256bit instruction usage - that can draw a lot of power - also brings in the continuous boost clocking topic IMO, because if by using pre-emptive variable clocks can keep power usage the same, you would then assume that circuit impedance - for the active circuitry - would remain constant too.
So if block design previously left space between logic/transistors to accommodate a temporal latency for heat build up in a functional block - to keep it stable when resistance rose - then maybe with the new paradigm shift to continuous boosting even nullifies the heavy power draw of 256bit instructions, and has given them latitude to even reduce spacing for transistors, because the heat never comes in the normal way, because clocking pre-emptively avoids the rise in resistance.
/probably wishful thinking and completely wrong, but Cerny definitely seems happy about the self posing question, as though the option was available because they had a solution.
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Chris_Rivera
Member
Because my definition of RDNA2 says it’s impossible. /s
The rdna2 “based” notion obviously requires the 7nm+ process, at the very least.
longdi
Banned
yep it's down to sony to tell us more about their custom works done on ps5 soc. until then, cerny did gone into details about his I/O works, api tools and a bit of audio. so we can infer that's where ps5 strengths lies in.
imo we should be seeing the strengths of SX custom works on the more 'traditional' areas of gpu/cpu/ram. proof is in the pudding, soon.
what i expect to see higher fidelity on SX and more dev friendly on ps5 helping it to punch above it's weight for a year or so.
will SX fidelity run away like ps4? of course not, but it will do well enough to question the value of $499+gp+higher fidelity..
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Kenpachii
Member
Honestly i don't see why people even debate if its rdna1 its not. its 2.
It's probably on 7nm because that what was available at the time. I don't see how u can enhance rdna1 to run at 2,23ghz even remotely without it automatically becoming RDNA2.
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MasterCornholio
Member
If there's one specific part that's been confirmed to be RDNA2 it's the GPUs CUs.
Without that it would be impossible to hit those clocks. They also have a robust cooling system which also helps.
HoofHearted
Member
Interesting thread/chatter going on..
SenjutsuSage
Banned
He was going on for quite a while, but help me out with what I'm suppose to be seeing there. I understand various sections or functional blocks of the different GPU may have version numbers and such, but often times those version numbers aren't even settled on and can even change. For the record, Locuza himself readily acknowledges he himself is no expert on these things either.
What I do know, however, is this.
Xbox Series X is packing all the same DirectX 12 Ultimate Feature support as all RX 6000 GPUs, has built in hardware support for every new feature AMD highlighted at their reveal. Sampler Feedback Streaming, as built for Series X is actually not a default DX 12 Ultimate feature and has additional customizations on top of it according to a Graphics R&D & Engine Architect at Microsoft. Sampler Feedback is just a core feature of what Microsoft built custom for Xbox Series X. Not only does Xbox Series X cover the full DX 12 Ultimate feature set, it actually exceeds the DX 12 Ultimate spec for Mesh Shaders for thread group size. Max on RX 6000 series is 128. Series X goes up to 256, and 256 on Series X does indeed produce superior results to all other thread sizes. RX 6000's main advantage would be it's a much larger GPU, but Series X actually has a more advanced Mesh Shader implementation.
What else? Xbox Series X has Machine Learning Acceleration hardware support whereas RX 6000 does not. So Series X isn't only RDNA 2. By all documented accounts, it actually exceeds it.
Xbox Series X goes beyond the standard DX12 Ultimate feature Sampler Feedback, and has custom hardware built into the GPU to make it even better for streaming purposes. Drop this GPU on PC and give it as many compute units as RX 6800XT while freeing it from the power restraints of a console, and it's likely the superior chip in the long run when DX12 Ultimate becomes more prominent. Oh, and as a desktop chip it would also have IC.
MasterCornholio
Member
Doncabesa
Member
PS5 SoC Die Shots Reveal RDNA 1.1 GPU and Zen 2 CPU Cores w/ Cut-Down FP Units | Hardware Times
Breakdown of the SoC die shot.
Breakdown of the SoC die shot.
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MasterCornholio
Member
Rops?
Sounds like RDNA1.1 and RDNA2 are extremely close to each other. Well I'm glad the PS5 has RDNA2 CUs.
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ethomaz
Banned
More like jumping conclusions lol
The article is basically getting posts on tweet without any base... the fact RDNA 1.1 doesn’t exists tells you a lot.
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