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[VFXVeteran]

Are you kidding? Look at those shadows - there is noise which you can see in all ray-traced games. Look more carefully. I know DF are blind nowdays, but you are VFXveteran

You guys can't even see RT GI and claim every RT game looks 'negligible' at best and yet, you can identify shadows and RT reflections in a gameplay demo that doesn't even isolate the feature for all to see like in Spiderman MM? Yea, not going there. Pretend to only have eyes for the PS5 games.... not going there.

 

[alucard0712_rus]

You guys can't even see RT GI and claim every RT game looks 'negligible' at best and yet, you can identify shadows and RT reflections in a gameplay demo that doesn't even isolate the feature for all to see like in Spiderman MM? Yea, not going there. Pretend to only have eyes for the PS5 games.... not going there.

Just one question - do you have RTX graphics card?

 

[Azurro]

Don't be so sure.

Aside from the fact that that slide was a mistake since it was clearly meant for a third party console exclusive, I'm pretty sure because it doesn't make strategic sense, at least not over the short or medium term. You give up the best PS5 exclusive for what?? 800,000 copies on steam? That's a pittance compared to what they can make by using it to sell the PS platform.

 

[FrankWza]

I'm 32 and was around for Atari and had an NES. Calm down.

a 2600? How’s that possible? You started gaming when you were 3? Even then it was pretty obsolete at that point

 

[VFXVeteran]

Aside from the fact that that slide was a mistake since it was clearly meant for a third party console exclusive, I'm pretty sure because it doesn't make strategic sense, at least not over the short or medium term. You give up the best PS5 exclusive for what?? 800,000 copies on steam? That's a pittance compared to what they can make by using it to sell the PS platform.

This site has been trying to 'think' for these companies for the last year or so. You would think that what people want and what makes sense for the business has been such a disparity that no one should speak on their own opinion with any sort of confidence. DS isn't out yet so we can't claim it's the best exclusive just because everyone is drawn to it's graphics. That's the first wrong assumption there. Sales will dictate what is the #1 exclusive and we aren't there yet. Secondly, I"ve stressed over and over again that Sony has moved to supporting the PC. Whether it's 800k steam users or 10k epic game users, the decision has been made already. That means the pipelines have already made adjustments and we are just waiting for announcements.

If ND is changing their pipeline for supporting both PS5 and PC, then there is no reason to believe that other developers aren't doing the same. Just because there is no announcement doesn't make it never going to be a reality.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

I won't argue people's opinions. I just want to clarify facts.

It is a fact if the majority say this.
No other game before it and no 2020 game close.

 

[VFXVeteran]

It is a fact if the majority say this.
No other game before it and no 2020 game close.

What are you talking about? I'm speaking about RT being rendered during the 1440/60FPS gameplay demos. Devs never said there was RT during those gameplay demos. That's a fact.

What is this "no other game before it and no 2020 game close" mean?

 

[FrankWza]

Anyone thinking this is next gen can go fuck themselves

damn. What games are you getting for your PS5 then?

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

This site has been trying to 'think' for these companies for the last year or so. You would think that what people want and what makes sense for the business has been such a disparity that no one should speak on their own opinion with any sort of confidence. DS isn't out yet so we can't claim it's the best exclusive just because everyone is drawn to it's graphics. That's the first wrong assumption there. Sales will dictate what is the #1 exclusive and we aren't there yet. Secondly, I"ve stressed over and over again that Sony has moved to supporting the PC. Whether it's 800k steam users or 10k epic game users, the decision has been made already. That means the pipelines have already made adjustments and we are just waiting for announcements.

If ND is changing their pipeline for supporting both PS5 and PC, then there is no reason to believe that DS developers aren't doing the same. Just because there is no announcement doesn't make it never going to be a reality.

Sony isn't bringing PS5 titles to PC and if they did bring them they would be years down the line.(not worth mentioning)

PC market(700k and change Horizon ZD ONE month sales) pales to the PlayStation market( HZD PS4 over 2.6 million in about 10 days | over 10 million lifetime) and Sony knows this.

Just like Sony didn't launch a Pro model alongside PS5 like you claimed.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

What are you talking about? I'm speaking about RT being rendered during the 1440/60FPS gameplay demos. Devs never said there was RT during those gameplay demos. That's a fact.

What is this "no other game before it and no 2020 game close" mean?

A game DOES NOT have to have RT to be the best looking.
Nothing is touching it in this visual style visually.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Sony isn't bringing PS5 titles to PC and if they did bring them they would be years down the line.(not worth mentioning)

You don't know what Sony is going to do. You have no contacts there so you shouldn't speak as if you know. Sony has already made a lot of you guys go into meltdown. Don't assume again and be wrong again.

PC market(700k and change Horizon ZD ONE month sales) pales to the PlayStation market( HZD PS4 over 2.6 million in about 10 days | over 10 million lifetime) and Sony knows this.

PC market is to supplement Sony sales.. not go against them.

Just like Sony didn't launch a Pro model alongside PS5 like you claimed.

Don't start this shit again.

 

[VFXVeteran]

A game DOES NOT have to have RT to be the best looking.
Nothing is touching it in this visual style visually.

I'm done talking to you. Reread my posts and stay on topic. This is not a thread about best looking next-gen game of all time. I know better than to beat that dead horse to the Sony fans on these boards. You can have your 'best looking game ever to grace the gaming world' claims for every exclusive that comes out on the PS5.

 

[Azurro]

This site has been trying to 'think' for these companies for the last year or so. You would think that what people want and what makes sense for the business has been such a disparity that no one should speak on their own opinion with any sort of confidence. DS isn't out yet so we can't claim it's the best exclusive just because everyone is drawn to it's graphics. That's the first wrong assumption there. Sales will dictate what is the #1 exclusive and we aren't there yet. Secondly, I"ve stressed over and over again that Sony has moved to supporting the PC. Whether it's 800k steam users or 10k epic game users, the decision has been made already. That means the pipelines have already made adjustments and we are just waiting for announcements.

If ND is changing their pipeline for supporting both PS5 and PC, then there is no reason to believe that other developers aren't doing the same. Just because there is no announcement doesn't make it never going to be a reality.

So, you criticize my point for "thinking for Sony" and yet you are doing the same. Sony isn't supporting the PC, Sony is using the PC as marketing for PC gamers to buy a PS5, and they have literally said that. I think your point is stupid in the sense that they would be damaging their own eco system to sell a pittance in terms of units sold and they give 30% of the revenue to steam. Why would they do that?

Tell you what, if Sony was really supporting the PC, why aren't they bringing their titles day and date to the PC, if selling units there is so important? You are only repeating that silly point over a mistaken powerpoint slide over and over again because you are a PC Master Race guy that dislikes PS for some reason.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

You don't know what Sony is going to do. You have no contacts there so you shouldn't speak as if you know. Sony has already made a lot of you guys go into meltdown. Don't assume again and be wrong again.



PC market is to supplement Sony sales.. not go against them.



Don't start this shit again.

No YOU don't know what Sony is going to do.

700k is pennies compared to what it has done on PS4.
With those lack luster PC sales expect Sony to continue to not release current games on the PC right away like I said.
Keeping actual exclusives on the PS platform IS one of the reasons for the mega sales on the PS versions and Sony isn't going to hinder this.

I didn't start the PS5 Pro launching alongside the PS5 talk you did.
It's your shit and you gotta eat it.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

So, you criticize my point for "thinking for Sony" and yet you are doing the same. Sony isn't supporting the PC, Sony is using the PC as marketing for PC gamers to buy a PS5, and they have literally said that. I think your point is stupid in the sense that they would be damaging their own eco system to sell a pittance in terms of units sold and they give 30% of the revenue to steam. Why would they do that?

Tell you what, if Sony was really supporting the PC, why aren't they bringing their titles day and date to the PC, if selling units there is so important? You are only repeating that silly point over a mistaken powerpoint slide over and over again because you are a PC Master Race guy that dislikes PS for some reason.

dunno how he isn't banned like he is everywhere else for trolling PlayStation.

 

[Azurro]

I'm done talking to you. Reread my posts and stay on topic. This is not a thread about best looking next-gen game of all time. I know better than to beat that dead horse to the Sony fans on these boards. You can have your 'best looking game ever to grace the gaming world' claims for every exclusive that comes out on the PS5.

Your anger at Sony fans really shows through here, some people value more better animations, asset quality and overall image. Even you with your thorough and pure hate for Sony, you have to admit they pull off incredible looking games even with the limitations of the console hardware that get more plaudits in comparison to third party games on PC with some sliders a bit more to the right with higher res.

 

[notseqi]

It is a fact if the majority say this.
No other game before it and no 2020 game close.

That's not how facts work, mate.

PC market is to supplement Sony sales.. not go against them.

I think Xbox took that place, didn't it? I am on the side that exclusives make the console, giving 'everything' to PC is not conducive for full trust in a console.

 

[VFXVeteran]

I think Xbox took that place, didn't it? I am on the side that exclusives make the console, giving 'everything' to PC is not conducive for full trust in a console.

I don't think it's about exclusives selling consoles anymore. Times are changing and studios have to adapt. New tech is evolving that will eventually deprecate old paradigms (i.e. cloud services and pure digital).

 

[notseqi]

I don't think it's about exclusives selling consoles anymore. Times are changing and studios have to adapt. New tech is evolving that will eventually deprecate old paradigms.

I think the opposite, people that would have wised up on this would have bought PC hardware. (BUY AMD!)
Like apple does with the iphone I think that the market for 'easy access, cheap' begs for consoles. Apart from updates you don't have to change shit. (iphone isn't cheap ofc but if there is only one company in the mix?)

 

[martino]

I don't think it's about exclusives selling consoles anymore. Times are changing and studios have to adapt. New tech is evolving that will eventually deprecate old paradigms (i.e. cloud services and pure digital).

i'm really not sure we are there but it's not rare the leader miss those moments.
also it's possible new ways stack on top of others with little impact.

 

[LivingD3AD]

Mighty impressive

 

[VFXVeteran]

I think the opposite, people that would have wised up on this would have bought PC hardware. (BUY AMD!)
Like apple does with the iphone I think that the market for 'easy access, cheap' begs for consoles. Apart from updates you don't have to change shit. (iphone isn't cheap ofc but if there is only one company in the mix?)

The cost of consoles are increasing in price. They are not ever going to reach parity with the latest technology on day 1 of a new generation. Graphics engines that offer multiple platform support are the new standard (i.e. Unity/UE) and therefore many companies can spend more time on asset creation as opposed to R&D for a particular platform.

Not saying that consoles will go away (they may though). But making every studio only make for a closed box in these times is not a good business idea... which is why Sony is changing that.

 

[notseqi]

The cost of consoles are increasing in price. They are not ever going to reach parity with the latest technology on day 1 of a new generation. Graphics engines that offer multiple platform support are the new standard (i.e. Unity/UE) and therefore many companies can spend more time on asset creation as opposed to R&D for a particular platform.

Not saying that consoles will go away (they may though). But making every studio only make for a closed box in these times is not a good business idea... which is why Sony is changing that.

Again, I am viewing this completely different: Consoles are the base for development of games as young kids are not able to get into PC gaming without parental supervision. PC is getting (shitty?) console ports, easier with the switch to x64, badly upscaled taking PC performance to compensate for that port.

Consoles are increasing in price but they seem to have noticed that there is no problem until they reach PC + monitor + KB + Mouse + Energy Drink prices. Hence why they are heavy on pushing stuff via eSports.

 

[S0ULZB0URNE]

I don't think it's about exclusives selling consoles anymore. Times are changing and studios have to adapt. New tech is evolving that will eventually deprecate old paradigms (i.e. cloud services and pure digital).

You don't think?
Well ask Sony and Nintendo how it's working for them.

 

[VFXVeteran]

Again, I am viewing this completely different: Consoles are the base for development of games as young kids are not able to get into PC gaming without parental supervision.

PC platform is our basis for development. We build to consoles. Most of the Sony exclusives had custom graphics engines built to PS4 only and my friends have told me that that paradigm is undergoing changes. There is money to be made with releasing to PC for the Sony games. It's just going to happen whether some like it or not. Detroit, HZD, TLOU1, Godfall, and several others only coming to PC/PS5/PS4 are the evidence for this change.

 

[notseqi]

PC platform is our basis for development. We build to consoles. Most of the Sony exclusives had custom graphics engines built to PS4 only and my friends have told me that that transition is undergoing. There is money to be made with releasing to PC for the Sony games. It's just going to happen whether some like it or not.

I know that the dev kits are PC based but you are certainly not setting a LoD-switch to PS5 or XseX.
Is there something you could say about how that stuff is developed, in a new thread maybe? I'd be very interested to hear about it and it might clear up some misconceptions I have.

 

[VFXVeteran]

I know that the dev kits are PC based but you are certainly not setting a LoD-switch to PS5 or XseX.
Is there something you could say about how that stuff is developed, in a new thread maybe? I'd be very interested to hear about it and it might clear up some misconceptions I have.

Let me find something I might have started before..

 

[Yoboman]

It'd be cool if world tendency affected the visuals of the world. Like even darker and depressing the more the world goes towards black, lighter and more towards the original colouring and visuals if the world is moving towards white

 

[notseqi]

It'd be cool if world tendency affected the visuals of the world. Like even darker and depressing the more the world goes towards black, lighter and more towards the original colouring and visuals if the world is moving towards white

Aw man I didn't get that world tendency stuff. Is there a tl;dr?

 

[VFXVeteran]

Aw man I didn't get that world tendency stuff. Is there a tl;dr?

notseqi

I started this back in Dec 2019. A LOT of the discussion of graphics with screenshots, etc.. should go there but a lot of people may be put off by the technicality of the thread.

Graphics Tech | OT

Welcome to the Graphics Tech thread! Let's begin by expressing what this thread is NOT: 1) A screenshot war thread. If you want to post screenshots of a game to show off some graphical prowess, it must be accompanied by factual data and information about the screenshot. Don't just make a...

www.neogaf.com

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Are you kidding? Look at those shadows - there is noise which you can see in all ray-traced games. Look more carefully. I know DF are blind nowdays, but you are VFXveteran

Edit: Look at the picture. This how ray-traced soft shadows looks like:

It is indeed raytracing.

 

[notseqi]

notseqi

I started this back in Dec 2019. A LOT of the discussion of graphics with screenshots, etc.. should go there but a lot of people may be put off by the technicality of the thread.

Graphics Tech | OT

Welcome to the Graphics Tech thread! Let's begin by expressing what this thread is NOT: 1) A screenshot war thread. If you want to post screenshots of a game to show off some graphical prowess, it must be accompanied by factual data and information about the screenshot. Don't just make a...

www.neogaf.com

Intro already looks like good shit, thanks man.

 

[Yoboman]

Aw man I didn't get that world tendency stuff. Is there a tl;dr?

The more you die, the more your world moves towards a black world, killing bosses shifts it towards a white world. The black world tendency means harder enemies, but also much better item drops. At the extreme ends, unique NPCs, and events open up

 

[notseqi]

notseqi

I started this back in Dec 2019. A LOT of the discussion of graphics with screenshots, etc.. should go there but a lot of people may be put off by the technicality of the thread.

Graphics Tech | OT

Welcome to the Graphics Tech thread! Let's begin by expressing what this thread is NOT: 1) A screenshot war thread. If you want to post screenshots of a game to show off some graphical prowess, it must be accompanied by factual data and information about the screenshot. Don't just make a...

www.neogaf.com

Man that thread is great.

edit:
Post #5 is about a Mercedes which is shit because the aluminium doesn't reflect in that way. The guy hasn't sat in that car and is wondering into the void.

 

[VFXVeteran]

It is indeed raytracing.

Bo_Hazem that is not RT dude. RT shadows have sharp edges where the shadow is closest to the object casting on the ground and fade to a large area of blur the further away the shadow is from the object. Look at Shadow of the Tomb Raider clip for what RT shadows look like. Those shadows look like typical shadow volumes with a blur kernel.



Let's take this discussion to the OT| Graphics thread I made.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

Bo_Hazem that is not RT dude. RT shadows have sharp edges where the shadow is closest to the object casting on the ground and fade to a large area of blur the further away the shadow is from the object. Look at Shadow of the Tomb Raider clip for what RT shadows look like. Those shadows look like typical shadow volumes with a blur kernel.



Let's take this discussion to the OT| Graphics thread I made.

Thanks for the details.

 

[Azurro]

PC platform is our basis for development. We build to consoles. Most of the Sony exclusives had custom graphics engines built to PS4 only and my friends have told me that that paradigm is undergoing changes. There is money to be made with releasing to PC for the Sony games. It's just going to happen whether some like it or not. Detroit, HZD, TLOU1, Godfall, and several others only coming to PC/PS5/PS4 are the evidence for this change.

Let me do a proposition to you. How about instead of talking about your conspiracy theories, and trolling on how less than a million copies minus 30% of the revenue significantly add to the revenue of multiple millions of copies sold on their own platform...why don't you shut up until we see Demon's Souls on the PC?

We don't need your habitual retarded trolling.

 

[Derktron]

That picture with the helmet.

I’m in shock in seeing that, that’s amazing!!

 

[notseqi]

Let me do a proposition to you. How about instead of talking about your conspiracy theories, and trolling on how less than a million copies minus 30% of the revenue significantly add to the revenue of multiple millions of copies sold on their own platform...why don't you shut up until we see Demon's Souls on the PC?

We don't need your habitual retarded trolling.

Why don't you stop being a massive cunt and take opposition to what you were actually quoting?
There is so much info you can gain from that post but I suppose the hard hitting calls you are taking are from your mom and the work you do is sucking dicks under a bridge, dio boia.

 

[Spukc]

Fuck you motherfucker
Did i offend you personally?
3 days on this site fucking hell what a shit place

Hahahaha wtf happened here dude.
Gaf is a very chill place tbh.

who the hell managed to piss you off that bad?

 

[iHaunter]

a 2600? How’s that possible? You started gaming when you were 3? Even then it was pretty obsolete at that point

I grew up in Russia, we still had them even that late into their life-cycles.

 

[NoMoChokeSJ]

Let me do a proposition to you. How about instead of talking about your conspiracy theories, and trolling on how less than a million copies minus 30% of the revenue significantly add to the revenue of multiple millions of copies sold on their own platform...why don't you shut up until we see Demon's Souls on the PC?

We don't need your habitual retarded trolling.

But it was 700k more copies than were sold before it was released to PC. One doesn't have to canabalize the other. I would imagine Horizons sales were at a standstill due to the age of the game. And $25 Million in sales (700k x $50 x 70%) is not a paltry sum, especially on a 3 year old game, who's budget was roughly twice that.

 

[notseqi]

I grew up in Russia, we still had them even that late into their life-cycles.

hahaha, enjoy your [insert national dish here]!

 

[FunkMiller]

It'd be cool if world tendency affected the visuals of the world. Like even darker and depressing the more the world goes towards black, lighter and more towards the original colouring and visuals if the world is moving towards white

Ooh... I like that That’d be great... And I’ll frankly be disappointed if it’s not a thing now!

 

[Azurro]

But it was 700k more copies than were sold before it was released to PC. One doesn't have to canabalize the other. I would imagine Horizons sales were at a standstill due to the age of the game. And $25 Million in sales (700k x $50 x 70%) is not a paltry sum, especially on a 3 year old game, who's budget was roughly twice that.

It absolutely does, Sony PS5 exclusives are not just the units sold of the game themselves, it's a reason for people to get a Playstation. Do you understand why it's so important? Because if someone gets a PS5 due to exclusives like Demon's Souls, then they will also buy on average 10 more games in the lifespan of the console, plus a 30% portion of every single online transaction this customer will ever do plus whatever this particular user spends on PS Plus or PS Now.

Selling on a platform that belongs to a competitor that takes away 30% of your revenue is an absolute pittance compared to what I described above and it's not worth jeopardizing your platform just to earn 25 million in revenue.

Why would Sony decide to release everything on PC and let people know "I'll just get it on PC" and lose their business? To make some insufferable PCMR trolls happy? It makes no sense, so that's why I suggest VFXVeteran to shut up until it happens.

 

[notseqi]

So, you criticize my point for "thinking for Sony" and yet you are doing the same. Sony isn't supporting the PC, Sony is using the PC as marketing for PC gamers to buy a PS5, and they have literally said that. I think your point is stupid in the sense that they would be damaging their own eco system to sell a pittance in terms of units sold and they give 30% of the revenue to steam. Why would they do that?

Tell you what, if Sony was really supporting the PC, why aren't they bringing their titles day and date to the PC, if selling units there is so important? You are only repeating that silly point over a mistaken powerpoint slide over and over again because you are a PC Master Race guy that dislikes PS for some reason.

Because they are still selling and they have better metrics than you.
Fucking hell.

The one thing I'd expect from a company is 'not changing anything'. Like Nintendo, do you that company?

 

[Yoboman]

Bo_Hazem that is not RT dude. RT shadows have sharp edges where the shadow is closest to the object casting on the ground and fade to a large area of blur the further away the shadow is from the object. Look at Shadow of the Tomb Raider clip for what RT shadows look like. Those shadows look like typical shadow volumes with a blur kernel.



Let's take this discussion to the OT| Graphics thread I made.

RT shadows from a close single light source like a spot light will look totally different from the shadows you get from the sun as a source. Thats why your video has those penumbra effects

Turn on RT in a day time scene and that type of shadow effect wont be visible or much less so

 

[iHaunter]

hahaha, enjoy your [insert national dish here]!

My grandmother made borsch a lot. Thanks!

 

[Northeastmonk]

I wonder if those beautiful loading screens are now gone. They could have handed those out as post cards or something inside the game case.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Incredible game but it's not the face of SONY.