• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

PS5 specs revealed. Up to 10.2 Tflops.

FireFly

Member
Aug 5, 2007
825
383
1,060
There's nothing to not believe in your quote.

It says right there that the power budget is tied to the thermal limits of the cooling assembly. This is normal.

And what Cerny is describing is not some different paradigm. He literally just described how every PC GPU operates. PC GPU's don't operate at a constant frequency. The frequency varies based on the workload and thermal limits.
Cerny is saying that the performance level is the same, irrespective of the environement. If the boost algorithm throttled the GPU based on ambient temperature, wouldn't this lead to different performance in different environments?

Sounds like PR nonsense to me. It is ultimately based on temperature. The difference is that putting a temperature sensor would be expensive. It's cheaper to simply test the capability of the cooler, and create a table of what temperatures are reached at which loads, and limit the hardware based on that. It eliminates the need for real-time temperature measurements.

The whole "new paradigm" stuff sounds like PR nonsense. I'm reminded of "4D graphics" eerily often today...
Ok, then it that case it wouldn't throttle based on the users' actual ambient temperature but their "modelled" one. So it would still be deterministic in a certain kind of way, because it would be based on the workload itself. I can believe that.
 

laser_printer

Member
Dec 10, 2019
1,056
1,560
445
Sactown
Let’s see what the prices are.

Most expensive pretty much does not win.

And with the economy tanking right now........
True, I think what hurt the PS3 in hindsight was that we were heading into a recession and a game console did not look like a good purchase whatsoever much less one that's 600 dollars.
 

gspat

Member
Apr 23, 2016
410
203
340
So, dumb question with probably no real answer...

With all the custom stuff Sony will have, how much load will it take off the CPU/GPU of the system?

1%? 2% 10% ???
 

Journey

Member
Aug 18, 2014
2,413
1,546
540
Bloodborne was my favorite game of last generation, and it ran like fucking shit.

Hell Breath of the Wild was another one. It also ran like shit. It also was on Switch.

Don't really care, it's always going to be about the games.

How about games that DON'T run like shit?? wouldn't that be better?
 

DragoonKain

Member
Nov 13, 2013
4,646
7,050
960
As a PS fanboy i have to say im extremely disappointed with today. The 10.2 tflops was welcome but finding out that its not fixed and can dip sounds like marketing spin BS to me and that its actually 9tflops with some marketing spin.. The fact gitgub was/is real is also disappointing. MS built a console for the future, sony built one for 2019. And the backwards compatibility not working with even most games? Fuck outta here. I was initially a day one buyer, now im a wait see,
BW works on all games. They worded it misleadingly.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OSC

LittleBusters

Member
Jun 4, 2018
1,869
1,364
430
41
Also it seems Sony is trying to do some 'special sauce' with the variable clocking on GPU. Ask Microsoft what that 32MB of ESRAM did for them this generation. Yeah, fuck all. 'special sauce' is just PR spin to distract from having the less powerful console! I can't wait for the side-by-side loading time vs side-by-side Res/FR comparisons! It's gonna be hilarious with loads of salty fans on both sides.
 
  • LOL
Reactions: GymWolf

vpance

Member
Jun 20, 2005
7,869
1,306
1,630
Sounds like PR nonsense to me. It is ultimately based on temperature. The difference is that putting a temperature sensor would be expensive. It's cheaper to simply test the capability of the cooler, and create a table of what temperatures are reached at which loads, and limit the hardware based on that. It eliminates the need for real-time temperature measurements.

The whole "new paradigm" stuff sounds like PR nonsense. I'm reminded of "4D graphics" eerily often today...
The cooling solution is efficient enough to sustain some combination of 3.5GHz CPU and 2.23GHz GPU, except for the most demanding of games. And what that is we'll see.

It's a limiter based on power draw, not temperature. More demanding games draw more power from the system. Indie games will run at full clocks, unless it's not necessary (maybe dev controlled in that case).
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Mendou

CJY

Banned
Jan 8, 2016
2,563
5,620
725
As a PS fanboy i have to say im extremely disappointed with today. The 10.2 tflops was welcome but finding out that its not fixed and can dip sounds like marketing spin BS to me and that its actually 9tflops with some marketing spin.. The fact gitgub was/is real is also disappointing. MS built a console for the future, sony built one for 2019. And the backwards compatibility not working with even most games? Fuck outta here. I was initially a day one buyer, now im a wait see,
I appreciate this. I believe I'm as big a PS fan as there could be, but no matter what, companies should be called out if they fail to deliver on what you or I want and not just blindly follow them regardless. Today was a total let-down, but the core fundamentals of what makes PS great hasn't changed much, and that's the games. Actually, the outlook on games looks better than ever if the MGS/Silent Hill rumours are true. In the end, PS5 is gonna be a beast anyway. Just a shame we don't get to gloat about obvious technological superiority, but fuck it, I'll live.
 

NickFire

Member
Mar 12, 2014
7,137
7,123
860
Also it seems Sony is trying to do some 'special sauce' with the variable clocking on GPU. Ask Microsoft what that 32MB of ESRAM did for them this generation. Yeah, fuck all. 'special sauce' is just PR spin to distract from having the less powerful console! I can't wait for the side-by-side loading time vs side-by-side Res/FR comparisons! It's gonna be hilarious with loads of salty fans on both sides.
I'm no tech wizard, but to my common man tech brain it just sounded like: We wanted to sound more competitive on Flops. But to get to 10 we have to slow down the CPU. No win there IMO.
 

jakinov

Member
Nov 19, 2008
531
538
950
Its sad that you think hardware only influences pixels in game development.
Firstly, the context of the conversation is about resolution which is pxiels which is why I talk about DPI/resolution. I then even finishing off my post talking about graphical results beyond resolution (pixels). In the same post I even talk implicitly about the PS5's very fast SSD by talking about how developers gamer can more dynamic and immersive experiences. It seems like you just read my first sentence, saw that I mentioned pixels, ignored the post I was replying to (i.e. the context of the conversation) and then got "sad" and decided to reply.
 
Oct 26, 2018
11,225
14,014
595
Also it seems Sony is trying to do some 'special sauce' with the variable clocking on GPU. Ask Microsoft what that 32MB of ESRAM did for them this generation. Yeah, fuck all. 'special sauce' is just PR spin to distract from having the less powerful console! I can't wait for the side-by-side loading time vs side-by-side Res/FR comparisons! It's gonna be hilarious with loads of salty fans on both sides.
You never know. Maybe there's a hidden 5700xt gpu in the gpu. lol
 

Yams

Member
Oct 22, 2014
83
149
385
It sounds like you might think PS5 boost is similar to how a PC CPU has boost clocks. Not so. From the Eurogamer Article:
So this means that MS will lose a lot on XBX hardware, while Sony can keep the price low and they won't even lose money on it. Nice. Oh and XBX will be fn loud :DD. Or it will have a 5 kg.
I thought the word in the street was that the XSX was very quiet. Makes sense considering it’s a box with a giant fan on top.
 

Dabaus

Member
Apr 23, 2018
957
1,661
425
I appreciate this. I believe I'm as big a PS fan as there could be, but no matter what, companies should be called out if they fail to deliver on what you or I want and not just blindly follow them regardless. Today was a total let-down, but the core fundamentals of what makes PS great hasn't changed much, and that's the games. Actually, the outlook on games looks better than ever if the MGS/Silent Hill rumours are true. In the end, PS5 is gonna be a beast anyway. Just a shame we don't get to gloat about obvious technological superiority, but fuck it, I'll live.
They dropped the ball on almost everything so far i dont see how they wont drop the ball on games as well. Alot of sony's success is because of former leaders, not the current regime.
 

Samsomite

Member
Oct 24, 2018
710
1,695
375
I hate to say it, but they all sounded bullshit form the beginning
Especially OsirisBlack OsirisBlack 's cock was quite keenly being sucked here, even though me amongst others have been giving him shit and doubting his legitness for at least two years now.

But riddles and bullshit, they seem to sink like hot knife into butter here.
 

splattered

Member
Feb 8, 2012
1,284
942
680
Proprierty SSDs won't be cheap. Surely. Remember X360s HDD?
Expandable with the PS5 is only going to be for select drives... we don't even know what those drives are or how much they are going to cost yet.

XsX has proprietary cards but they get to control cost AND performance... a non proprietary solution could end up biting Sony in the ass if there are performance issues because people don't want to spend more money on the better drives.

I'm honestly surprised Sony didn't go proprietary cards as well (They might even be looking for a partner right now to accomplish this for all we know)
 

TLZ

Member
Oct 20, 2015
9,140
11,681
865
Sydney
So speaking seriously now, this should effectively confirm Sony are after that $399 price with 10.3tf right? I cannot see them selling at the same price as XSX 12tf, most probably $499.
 

Rolling_Start

Banned
Jul 25, 2019
614
826
325
So, dumb question with probably no real answer...

With all the custom stuff Sony will have, how much load will it take off the CPU/GPU of the system?

1%? 2% 10% ???
Not enough information to say.

XSX has custom hardware that can do the work of up to something like 5 Zen CPU cores on the storage front, and Sony likely have something similar.

I think both will have made whatever hardware is needed to maximise throughput but minimise CPU overhead.
 

martino

Member
Apr 25, 2013
3,875
1,353
640
France
GitHub isn't real man. None of the info was right. Let's forget that now and just talk about the hard fact official specs we have now.
github seems to be 7nm chip version of what we got....
it was more real , more contexial and less biased or "chinese whispers" than any third hand leaks from insiders.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: siekro1983

48086

Member
Jan 10, 2017
717
1,332
500
So speaking seriously now, this should effectively confirm Sony are after that $399 price with 10.3tf right? I cannot see them selling at the same price as XSX 12tf, most probably $499.
My guess is the ps5 will be $450 or $499 and Microsoft will match the price. If the ps5 is $399 Microsoft will price the Series X at $450. I will gladly bet my avatar on that.

Also, something a lot people aren't talking about, the Series X has 12tf outside of RT. So, even after RT in enabled, devs have 12tf to play with. 😲
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: TLZ

Batiman

Danger: male feminist
Feb 11, 2020
813
928
520
Especially OsirisBlack OsirisBlack 's cock was quite keenly being sucked here, even though me amongst others have been giving him shit and doubting his legitness for at least two years now.

But riddles and bullshit, they seem to sink like hot knife into butter here.
I just didn’t want to get banned for calling them out. People are too gullible. The bullshit was way too obvious. Sad how much damage these fakes can cause. This really hurt Sony IMO. People let these insiders fill their head with what they want to hear while bashing anyone who mentioned github
 
  • Praise the Sun
Reactions: Samsomite

Rolling_Start

Banned
Jul 25, 2019
614
826
325
github seems to be 7nm chip version of what we got....
it was more real , more contexial and less biased or "chinese whispers" than any third hand leaks from insiders.
Yup. Github was real. Clocks moved upwards but CU count and bus stayed the same, naturally.

"Insiders" were full of shit.
 
  • Like
Reactions: BigLee74

TLZ

Member
Oct 20, 2015
9,140
11,681
865
Sydney
My guess is the ps5 will be $450 or $499 and Microsoft will match the price. If the ps5 is $399 Microsoft will price the Series X at $450. I will gladly bet my avatar on that.

Also, something a lot people aren't talking about, the Series X has 12tf outside of RT. So, even after RT in enabled, devs have 12tf to play with. 😲
Hm. Well they both have the same hardware accelerated RT right? But they spoke differently about it. So I'm guessing they'll behave the same, but don't know. We need more info on that from Sony.
 
  • Like
Reactions: OSC and 48086

it_wasn't_me

Banned
May 22, 2017
1,991
3,122
395
Expandable with the PS5 is only going to be for select drives... we don't even know what those drives are or how much they are going to cost yet.

XsX has proprietary cards but they get to control cost AND performance... a non proprietary solution could end up biting Sony in the ass if there are performance issues because people don't want to spend more money on the better drives.

I'm honestly surprised Sony didn't go proprietary cards as well (They might even be looking for a partner right now to accomplish this for all we know)
Yeah, PSVita proprietary cards deja vu.

Anyway Samsungs 980 Pro was advertised at CES for PS5, speed similar to PS5 stock SSD. Sony also can control cost and performance for 3rd party SSD because they need to be verified for PS5. So, it's not a problem.
 

ruvikx

Member
Jan 12, 2018
1,527
2,951
420
CPU is not fixed and GPU is not fixed in otherwords they can't hold those speeds the thing is slower and probably a lot slower then that on top of it.

They blew their budget on a SSD nobody gives 2 shits about.
Yep. I'd never sacrifice graphics & performance for faster loading times. It seems like Sony has totally forgotten what made ps4 so successful (power + price). Microsoft has them beaten on power, we'll see what the price is.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kenpachii

SurprisedPikachu

Gold Member
Feb 16, 2014
839
1,168
835
Earth
Honestly.. I don't even care how powerful it is. I want good games and backwards compatibility. I'll buy whatever console comes out if it has a good game.
 
Oct 26, 2018
11,225
14,014
595
Especially OsirisBlack OsirisBlack 's cock was quite keenly being sucked here, even though me amongst others have been giving him shit and doubting his legitness for at least two years now.

But riddles and bullshit, they seem to sink like hot knife into butter here.
I doubted that guy. And occasionally made fun of his riddles.

Earlier today in one of these threads I also brought up how be bragged about "having video proof" of knowing PS5 specs (which he said was 12.4 or 12.6 I forget which one). And he could only "show the forum" the day after due to some NDA he claimed to have.

Ok, I'm patient and will wait till tomorrow for that video.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Samsomite

vpance

Member
Jun 20, 2005
7,869
1,306
1,630
So, dumb question with probably no real answer...

With all the custom stuff Sony will have, how much load will it take off the CPU/GPU of the system?

1%? 2% 10% ???
Nothing XSX doesn't also have I think. Is their audio better?
 

oldergamer

Member
Aug 20, 2004
2,287
1,119
1,550
Also it seems Sony is trying to do some 'special sauce' with the variable clocking on GPU. Ask Microsoft what that 32MB of ESRAM did for them this generation. Yeah, fuck all. 'special sauce' is just PR spin to distract from having the less powerful console! I can't wait for the side-by-side loading time vs side-by-side Res/FR comparisons! It's gonna be hilarious with loads of salty fans on both sides.
Sony doesn't have any real secret sauce this time.
 
  • Like
Reactions: LittleBusters

BadBurger

Gold Member
Nov 6, 2019
1,050
1,463
490
Oh thank god they have a UHD bluray drive. I won't have to worry about keeping around an older console just for the drive if I don't want.
 

48086

Member
Jan 10, 2017
717
1,332
500
Nothing XSX doesn't also have I think. Is their audio better?
Is the ps5 audio going to be any or even noticeably better than Windows Sonic or Dolby Atmos? The x1 has had 3d for quite some time. I could be missing something on the ps5 side of things though.
 
Jan 29, 2019
3,038
2,517
400
Sony gonna drop a $299 bomb I can feel it 😂
It better not be above 350& Cerny mentioned that a reasonable price was one of the design goals (I suspect that the series x had a much higher target price, at least I hope for Sony... because they will have to pull another generation of amazing first party titles to get out of this one).

So if the price is the same, I just can't tell what will happen, I won't be in line to buy it day one anyway, with the whole corona thing I have no income and no real opportunities that are not closed off.

My bet is, in the end games will be pretty close to equivalent, but I think that they should have gone the way of fixed clocks (like all previous consoles).
 

TBiddy

Member
Mar 16, 2015
3,548
3,006
675
Denmark
Well, it looks like I got what I wanted. Almost. They didn't screw it up that much. That SSD is bonkers, and I'm curious to see what difference it'll make. I don't think there'll be much of a difference in terms of graphical fidelity either, unless the stuff about RT being a weak point in the PS5 turns out to be true.

I sometimes wish for Sony to completely screw up the PS5, just to watch a few of the most crazy fans here on Gaf, have complete mental breakdowns.

They deserve it.