• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

PS5: VRR Update Is Reportedly Coming In December

ToTTenTranz

Member
Feb 4, 2021
522
1,068
340
The statements refer to Sony TV. Why is there an association to the PS5?

AFAIK when the PS5 released there were no HDMI 2.1 models from Sony's most popular TV lines either. They work as two separate entities and they don't wait on each other for feature releases.
 
Last edited:

Riky

My little VRR pleasure pearl goes vrrrooommm.
May 11, 2013
4,509
9,967
990
England
Which is ridiculous and they should be called out for. It's astounding that the video game "journalists" haven't been pushing sony on this for the last 9 months. Should have been there from day 1.

Over a year to get a feature that other consoles had not only day one but last gen.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MrFunSocks

ManaByte

Gold Member
Jun 10, 2004
42,435
74,700
2,525
California
manabyte.com
AFAIK when the PS5 released there were no HDMI 2.1 models from Sony's most popular TV lines either.

Absolutely not true at all. The 2020 Bravias supported HDMI 2.1, although the processor used in those sets cause the 120hz mode to be blurry; even after updates. The 2021 models support HDMI 2.1 and use a new more powerful chip so the 120hz modes don't have the blurring problem.

Again, Sony is waiting for HDMI 2.1 to be officially finalized. When that happens they'll push a FW update to the Bravias to enable VRR and then shortly after that the PS5 will get support for it.
 

dvdvideo

Member
Sep 15, 2005
3,070
3,297
1,690
I don't think most gamers have the hardware to make this matter at this point, but I'm genuinely confused as to why it would take sony this long to support it. I mean how hard could it be to turn it on or off? How did ms manage to have it at launch if its so hard?
 

ManaByte

Gold Member
Jun 10, 2004
42,435
74,700
2,525
California
manabyte.com
I don't think most gamers have the hardware to make this matter at this point, but I'm genuinely confused as to why it would take sony this long to support it. I mean how hard could it be to turn it on or off? How did ms manage to have it at launch if its so hard?

1. The HDMI port on the XSX is 48Gbps, the one on the PS5 is capped at 32Gbps.
2. Sony claims that they want to wait for the HDMI 2.1 standard to be finalized before enabling VRR on the Bravias. Until they do that it won't be enabled on PS5.
 

DinoD

Member
Mar 7, 2020
476
1,188
340
1. The HDMI port on the XSX is 48Gbps, the one on the PS5 is capped at 32Gbps.
2. Sony claims that they want to wait for the HDMI 2.1 standard to be finalized before enabling VRR on the Bravias. Until they do that it won't be enabled on PS5.

Thanks for the info.

However it doesn't make any sense for Sony not to support it out of the box for other TV brands. Unless. They are expecting the standard to change and they don't wish to do anything until endorsed by the HDMI group?
 

rofif

Member
Sep 13, 2019
7,783
10,975
670
they should just make rock solid 60fps mandatory.

vrr makes little sense on a console.
You are quite right.
Console games run 30 or 60fps and vrr is best within fluctuations at higher framerate. Let's say 90-120.
Below 40, it's lfc territory which is not ideal.
Not sure how it is on other TVs, but on OLEDS, the vrr causes some issues. I know people swear they don't see it but it's there.
Just start up resident evil 2 or 7 and with vrr enabled, switch ingame fps limiter 60 120 back and forth. You will clearly see gamma changing and being more washed out at 60fps/hz. If that happens quickly and your framerate jumps a lot, it is the so called "vrr flicker".
This happens because of the way OLED pxiels are calbirated at 120hz voltage and it cannot dynamicaly change or something like that.. hdtv guy explains it perfectly.


What I would wish is a way to have ANY game run at 30,40 or 60. Any of these locked with always 120hz option.
Exactly like Ratchet does. This way, oled users get proper 120hz gamma all the time and lowest possible lag.
Vrr is not that useful. If devs will go "whatever, make it run 30+ and the game will be 30-50-33-67-29-55 etc... the dark area gamma flicker will ruin the experience.

I loved vrr on my 40-60hz lg 27" 4k ips monitor. no issues. Rtss always locked to 58fps and I was safe with drops down to 41. 144hz, 240hz monitors also but TVs are way more complex with hdr and dimming zones
 
Last edited:

Allandor

Member
Feb 8, 2018
1,395
1,101
435
Germany
Sony is planning to introduce the long-awaited VRR update not only for the PS5 in December, but for all compatible TVs that will then also receive the upgrade. The President of Value Electronics is now explaining why the whole thing is taking so long to come.


PS5 VRR update coming in December 2021?​

In an interview with Robert Zohn, Founder of Value Electronics, who goes apparently deeper into the matter, some changes to the CEC protocol (Consumer Electronics Control) are coming up, including the CEC-Link, Arc, and eArc. Their specifications are updated within HDMI, which Sony would like to wait and see before finally implementing VRR etc.

“I spoke a little bit on the side about the long-awaited upgrade to Variable Refresh Rate (VRR) on the x900h and x90 and x95 and all the other 2021 TVs (most recent Sony TV models with HDMI 2.1), and that’s still on target for December this year”, said Zohn. “What they are waiting for is HDMI is going to be updating some of their specs on CEC. The CEC link is going to be changing and so is ARC (Audio Return Channel) and eARC (Enhanced Audio Return Channel). There will be some protocol changes in the way that HDMI is configuring that and Sony engineers want to wait and see. They have one firmware update for that.”

What is ruled out is that there are also problems within the chips here, as was the case recently with the HDMI boards of some audio manufacturers, which were actually due to the hardware. That definitely is ruled out by Sony. In this respect, buyers of the previous year’s XH-9xxx models do not have to worry about it.

As is so often the case, it is a problem of a lack of communication in which one simply leaves customers in the dark as to why the promised features are not being upgraded.

PS5: VRR Update Will Be Available Reportedly in December (technclub.com)
Would be great but ...
the Update for x900h systems should have arrived with/before PS5, than in december 2020, than march 2021, than end of 2021 ... I really only believe it when it is published but have high hopes that it will finally arrive.
 
  • Like
Reactions: reinking

Bo_Hazem

Gold Dealer
Feb 10, 2020
17,432
81,650
965
35
Salalah, Oman
1. The HDMI port on the XSX is 48Gbps, the one on the PS5 is capped at 32Gbps.
2. Sony claims that they want to wait for the HDMI 2.1 standard to be finalized before enabling VRR on the Bravias. Until they do that it won't be enabled on PS5.

The port on the XSX is 40Gbps though, not 48Gbps. So far it's unknown what's the bandwidth in the PS5 but most assumptions are that it's capped at 32Gbps as you've said instead of being maxed out at 32Gbps. Whether it's 40 or 48Gbps time will tell.
 
Last edited:

HeisenbergFX4

Member
Dec 28, 2016
4,974
31,060
950
Some Beach
Its Been A Long Time Reaction GIF
 

REDRZA MWS

Member
Jan 7, 2018
1,047
1,376
450
The port on the XSX is 40Gbps though, not 48Gbps. So far it's unknown what's the bandwidth in the PS5 but most assumption are that it's capped at 32Gbps as you've said instead of being maxed out at 32Gbps. Whether it's 40 or 48Gbps time will tell.
If the PS5 port is limited to 32gb/s Sony should have never said that 4K/120hz/VRR etc we’re going to be features and or added in a later software update. 32gb/s is not hdmi 2.1 standard.
 

8BiTw0LF

Member
Jun 5, 2013
1,428
3,598
800
If the PS5 port is limited to 32gb/s Sony should have never said that 4K/120hz/VRR etc we’re going to be features and or added in a later software update. 32gb/s is not hdmi 2.1 standard.
If Sony lied about 4K/HDR/120hz/VRR, they are facing a major lawsuit - like every PS5 sold needs to be replaced. That would kill the PlayStation brand.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Bo_Hazem

DenchDeckard

Member
Feb 28, 2021
2,503
4,495
395
Not even 10% of TVs will support this, so what's the point?

If you're a console owner and buying a new tv in 2021 or later and it doesn't have one HDMI 2.1 port and vrr support that's on you. My mate bought some Samsung q70 or something fir like 500 quid and it has one port that supports VRR. I don't get how people can't get one.
 

rofif

Member
Sep 13, 2019
7,783
10,975
670
As the gen drags on and 30 fps becomes standard for consoles again then it will be pointless.
Any next major game will be 30.
Now would it be better if they had 30 and 60fps mode or 30 and 30+ vrr move that will probably never go up to 60 because with vrr they don't care?
 

rofif

Member
Sep 13, 2019
7,783
10,975
670
Once again, my series x has zero issues on my lg GX. 4K check, 120hz check, VRR, check. Dunno wtf you are talking about.
That's not true. Check my video earlier from hdtv. I confirm this.
If you don't run 120hz, this tvs, pixels don't receive proper voltage.
This results in a bit wrong gamma below 120hz and flicker if fps changes aggressively. It's only visible on dark scenes. It's not a huge issue do I don't care much too
 
Last edited:

rofif

Member
Sep 13, 2019
7,783
10,975
670
Like... HDMI 2.1..? or.. 120hz?

Definitely not for the majority, but for 1st movers (like myself) VRR is a pretty big deal - especially with upcoming games running in 40fps (120hz) - like R&C: Rift Apart.
Ratchet is running at 40fps with 120hz. If it was unlocked at the same settings it would run about 45 fps according to digital foundry.
So you will gain handful of fps in this case but change Hz from 120 to 40-50...
Now the questions are:
-if a game is running 40fps, will vrr or locked 120hz be faster? With 40fps vrr, the screen enters LFC and refresh rate becomes 80.
That is lower than 120 so maybe vrr is worse on this case?
-would the OLED gamma change be very noticeable going from 120hz to 40hz. I think only on underwater dark level

Also, 120hz or vrr means 422 and not full rgb which is a drawback too
 
Last edited:

Kagey K

Member
Dec 18, 2013
12,270
18,958
995
Imagine holing a feature back that other have had for 3+ plus years because you couldn’t get it to work in another item that your customers may or may not own.

I guess this is what owining an iPhone feels like.
 

8BiTw0LF

Member
Jun 5, 2013
1,428
3,598
800
Ratchet is running at 40fps with 120hz. If it was unlocked at the same settings it would run about 45 fps according to digital foundry.
So you will gain handful of fps in this case but change Hz from 120 to 40-50...
Now the questions are:
-if a game is running 40fps, will vrr or locked 120hz be faster? With 40fps vrr, the screen enters LFC and refresh rate becomes 80.
That is lower than 120 so maybe vrr is worse on this case?
-would the OLED gamma change be very noticeable going from 120hz to 40hz. I think only on underwater dark level

Also, 120hz or vrr means 422 and not full rgb which is a drawback too
Jesus Christ! Not everyone have a goddamn LG tv 😂

Your whole text is based on LG CX series.

I'm a monitor user, so couldn't care less for TV's.
 

rofif

Member
Sep 13, 2019
7,783
10,975
670
Jesus Christ! Not everyone have a goddamn LG tv 😂

Your whole text is based on LG CX series.

I'm a monitor user, so couldn't care less for TV's.
This happens in all OLED and fald supposedly.
Man, PS5 is a waste on a small, shit HDR monitor :p
 

Kagey K

Member
Dec 18, 2013
12,270
18,958
995
This happens in all OLED and fald supposedly.
Man, PS5 is a waste on a small, shit HDR monitor :p
Might as well shut it all down and go back to 720p 30 to make sure all users can handle the awesomeness of it all.

No point putting in features that a growing subset of users are going to want to take advantage of, better to think about the majority instead.
 
Last edited:

8BiTw0LF

Member
Jun 5, 2013
1,428
3,598
800
This happens in all OLED and fald supposedly.
Man, PS5 is a waste on a small, shit HDR monitor :p
Get ur head out of your ass, man 😂
What's the PPI for a 55" 4K TV? 80 PPI
What's the PPI for a 27" 4K monitor? 163 PPI

80 PPI isn't even rated retina. Puny TV user - get back in your hole!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chukhopops

rofif

Member
Sep 13, 2019
7,783
10,975
670
Get ur head out of your ass, man 😂
What's the PPI for a 55" 4K TV? 80 PPI
What's the PPI for a 27" 4K monitor? 163 PPI

80 PPI isn't even rated retina. Puny TV user - get back in your hole!
You joking? I had 27" 4k IPs for last 2 years. I know about ppi.... I had 10 monitors on last 3 years. Even one moment when I had 27" 1080 and 4k 27" side by side so made comparisons. That's why 27uk650 won. It was there best quality monitor.
But 48" lg C1 shits on all of this even at only 92 ppi. Perfect image quality, contrast, 120hz, HDR(amazing), no blooming, ghosting, IPs glow....
Ppi is lower but it's not noticeable at all. I don't notice it and don't miss it. You would be crazy to choose a monitor after seeing oled. I would take it even if it was 48" 1080p
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: skneogaf

8BiTw0LF

Member
Jun 5, 2013
1,428
3,598
800
You joking? I had 27" 4k IPs for last 2 years. I know about ppi.... I had 10 monitors on last 3 years. Even one moment when I had 27" 1080 and 4k 27" side by side so made comparisons. That's why 27uk650 won. It was there best quality monitor.
But 48" lg C1 shits on all of this even at only 92 ppi. Perfect image quality, contrast, 120hz, HDR(amazing), no blooming, ghosting, IPs glow....
Ppi is lower but it's not noticeable at all. I don't notice it and don't miss it. You would be crazy to choose a monitor after seeing oled. I would take it even if it was 48" 1080p
I wonder why not a single competitive gamer is using an OLED TV then 🤔😂 and yeah, if you sit 8 feet from that 48" the pixels are hard to find. I can sit 1 feet from a 27" and not find a pixel. There's the difference for you - hence the retina rating.
 

skneogaf

Member
Aug 31, 2017
1,622
2,223
495
England 🏴󠁧󠁢󠁥󠁮󠁧󠁿
Vrr will be a great addition but so many still want 1440p.

There are lots of things needed for the playstation like the ability to upgrade your game from standard to deluxe.

I really messed up by buying the standard demon souls as I wasn't aware of the deluxe version and now I'd have to buy the whole deluxe version to have the armour etc that us part if that version.
 

rofif

Member
Sep 13, 2019
7,783
10,975
670
I wonder why not a single competitive gamer is using an OLED TV then 🤔😂 and yeah, if you sit 8 feet from that 48" the pixels are hard to find. I can sit 1 feet from a 27" and not find a pixel. There's the difference for you - hence the retina rating.
I don't know why. For me battlefield 5 is easier. No scope and low input delay at 120hz! The tv is like 8ms which is great and handles motion better than any LCD.

I don't sit 8 feet away. I sit the same distance as I did too a monitor. The tv just replaced it on a desk. There are no visible pixels. I was afraid of that coming from 27 4k but nope it's crystal clear and amazing. And I can lean back in my chair comfortably since 27 4k was too small to do that.
But when I play pc games with mouse, it's great. No drawbacks. Took 2 days to get used to the size.

 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Bo_Hazem

TorturedMoon

Member
Aug 30, 2016
137
105
390
I'm glad there's finally some information on this and, even if it's over 12 months late, it's better late than never. I'm looking forward to it.

It's still a little frustrating — especially the lack of transparency on it from Sony — as you've been able to use the Xbox Series X with VRR on most HDMI 2.1 TVs without problem since day one yet we've had to wait to get a promised feature while they scramble to get their TVs in order. I get that it's not a good look to have VRR on their console when their own TVs don't support it but it's also not a good look to hold a promised feature back for everyone else, especially when you're the "For The Players" company.
 
Jun 1, 2021
714
999
365
Vrr will be a great addition but so many still want 1440p.
That may happen at some point and it would be good for the people who want it but I'm not quite convinced that it will happen anytime soon. Sony have a long history of staying in spec for this sort of thing and 1440p is not a part of any HDMI spec and never has been. It is the sort of out of spec thing that they tend to avoid.
Not saying it won't happen at some point though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: skneogaf

rofif

Member
Sep 13, 2019
7,783
10,975
670
Vrr will be a great addition but so many still want 1440p.

There are lots of things needed for the playstation like the ability to upgrade your game from standard to deluxe.

I really messed up by buying the standard demon souls as I wasn't aware of the deluxe version and now I'd have to buy the whole deluxe version to have the armour etc that us part if that version.
1440p is dead transition res. Forget about it
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bo_Hazem

Venuspower

Member
Sep 30, 2015
553
411
545
Germoney
Some insiders claimed the PS5 will be updated to output the full HDMI 2.1 (40) later (probably with the VRR update).

This is highly unlikely because Sony is using a DP 1.4 => HDMI Converter chip.
As we all know DP 1.4 is limited to 32 Gbps. This would also explain why Sony never mentioned ALLM (=> there is no ALLM for DP).


If Sony lied about 4K/HDR/120hz/VRR, they are facing a major lawsuit - like every PS5 sold needs to be replaced. That would kill the PlayStation brand.

They did not lie. 4K/HDR/120 is already possible. VRR does not incrase the bandwidth.
In other words: 32 Gbps is totally fine. Of course 422 chroma subsampling must be used in order to fit the signal into 32 Gbps, but Sony never claimed support for 4K@HDR@120@10Bit@RGB. Even 8K will work just fine with 32 Gbps with the help of DSC (Sony did not say that the 8K works uncompressed). In fact: Even 24 Gbps is enough for an 8K signal that is compressed with DSC.

You have to thank the HDMI Forum for the lack of transparency regarding the HDMI specifications/advertisements etc.
 
Last edited:

Ivan

Member
Nov 5, 2011
1,180
47
780
2. Sony claims that they want to wait for the HDMI 2.1 standard to be finalized before enabling VRR on the Bravias. Until they do that it won't be enabled on PS5.
When is it expected to be finalized?
 
Last edited: