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[Thirty7ven]

Only real games (and developers) can provide an answer to this question. If developers will end up using less or more than 5GB for streaming purposes we will know whitch company has smarter engineers. Right now we can only ask some obvious questions. For example we know for a fact GPU alocate the most memory for non streaming textures in order to use them right away, and streaming memory pool should be a lot smaller like Killzone memory usage analysis shows.

There's a dev in this forum called Falafada, he's a programmer who I know for a fact has worked in the industry and believe still does. To cut to the chase, the only numbers we need to know is 2.4 vs 5.5, and what applied before with HDDs in previous generations doesn't apply anymore. New tech, new tools, new ways. This will impact a lot of things, not just textures, but for example animations (big time).

Why reserve so much memory for non-streaming data when you are dealing with these new kinds of speeds? Like it has been explained before, next gen devs won't be managing memory with the next 30 seconds of gameplay in mind(imagine how far you can go with Spiderman in 30 seconds, or with a car in GTA), but with the next second. Obviously I can only touch the surface of how it works, but I will trust the devs over a prediction based on a game from 2013. And of course next gen games will have higher demands which means the faster the better. Let's not go the way of "there's no need for more speed" bullshit.

 

[pawel86ck]

There's a dev in this forum called Falafada, he's a programmer who I know for a fact has worked in the industry and believe still does. To cut to the chase, the only numbers we need to know is 2.4 vs 5.5, and what applied before with HDDs in previous generations doesn't apply anymore. New tech, new tools, new ways. This will impact a lot of things, not just textures, but for example animations (big time).

Why reserve so much memory for non-streaming data when you are dealing with these new kinds of speeds? Like it has been explained before, next gen devs won't be managing memory with the next 30 seconds of gameplay (imagine how far you can go with Spiderman in 30 seconds, or with a car in GTA), but with the next second. Obviously I can only touch the surface of how it works, but I will trust the devs over a prediction based on a game from 2013.

I'm not familiar with "Falafada" posts, but he works on XSX / PS5 game currently and knows all possible limits in regards to streaming pool on these consoles? If not then why people should trust his opinion.... and not to mention I dont even know what his opinion is, because you didnt quoted anything related to possible memory pool size on next gen consoles.

 

[EverydayBeast]

Microsoft will have the better specs and STILL lose to Sony next generation.

 

[RaySoft]

He is not lying, though.

The XsX is much more prepared to do Ray Tracing than the PS5.

The fact that all the talk Sony does is about the SSD and audio while MS has already shown Ray Tracing demos, already tells everything.

Agreed. People are too eager to find som "dirt" to discredit or fudge what others are saying.
I think he's talking to the best of his knowledge. It will be a natural conclusion if RT is tied to CU # and SXS simply has more of them.
XSX likely has a stronger RT implementation than the PS5. We'll find out soon enough anyways.

I feel sorry for many of the devs that are kinda "pressed" into a corner with questions, they can't know the answer to since they don't have the full picture. All they can do is draw on their experience and come up with a best possible answer based on the few facts they have.
So as an interviewer, with an angle, it's not that hard to construct your questions/statements in certain ways to push your narrative across.

 

[oldergamer]

PS3 fans like to claim that microsoft lost the 360 vs PS3 generation, but realistically they where pretty much dead even in sales worldwide. They were both hovering around 77 million units sold. So no, sony doesn't win every generation. We all know MS changed focus the last 3 years of the 360 with new management that pushed kinect and 3rd party with a lack of console exclusive first party. That hurt them out of the gate on Xbox one.

This time around, MS has more first party studios then they ever have, and will potentially release more games then they did for the 360/PS3 generation ( and that likely won't change over the course of the upcoming generation )

I'm looking at this gen as a return to the Xbox 360 way of providing more game selection out of gate, and 3rd parties having games perform better on the platform. So i will expect them to sell more units then previously.

 

[Aceofspades]

That didn't age well for you

 

[Hendrick's]

Oh man you really coming up with Alex’s idea for a puzzle that works around light? That’s it? Clearly coming from the dude(Alex) who couldn’t fathom how a SSD could change a game aside from loadings.

I know what Ray tracing is, it’s not new technology. It’s only now starting to become possible in games, but it’s old stuff.

Sure sound, that adds immersion specially in VR no doubt. But lighting and reflections, these are things that will make the game look better but they won’t change the actual games. Once developers can fully get on board, it will change development because devs get to see the changes they make in real time. For smaller studios? It will be a game changer. You can iterate so much faster!

Sure you could for example make a game sequence where you the player are in a hall of mirrors, and suddenly ray tracing is enabling a gaming moment that wouldn’t really be possible otherwise. But that’s a moment, it’s not a game.

For a graphics nerd, it’s the holy grail, but for game design? SSD, CPU, RAM, these are the things that enable you to do games not possible before.

Ray tracing is going to give stealth games a resurgence.

 

[Thirty7ven]

Ray tracing is going to give stealth games a resurgence.

It really won't. The problem with stealth games isn't that the A.I doesn't react realistically to sound or light, it's that most gamers have no patience and they would rather drop a body with a bang. Hence stealth games turned into action games with stealth in places.

 

[thicc_girls_are_teh_best]

It's a game changer for game developers (artists), because just like Minecraft shows, it's easier for artists. Which by the way only means anything if the game is developed from the ground up with Ray Tracing in mind. Otherwise it won't even help with development time.

Game design? Sorry but no, it's lighting and I don't care what people like Alex say about that end as they are bonafide pixel counters.

If a game is designed around the intricate interplay of shadow and light, I think RT would be very influential in that regard for the game design. I remember the insane shadows in Xbox version of the Splinter Cell games, imagine a stealth game utilizing a next-gen version of that design focus around light and shadow using RT.

That'd be pretty phenomenal. We don't honestly need to pit these features against each other. RT, GPGPU asynchronous compute, SSDs etc. They're ALL going to bring big shifts to next-gen game design. Some of us may have our preference in which will have the biggest impact (for myself, I think it's GPGPU asynchronous compute), but they're all going to be vital for next-gen game design, no doubt.

It really won't. The problem with stealth games isn't that the A.I doesn't react realistically to sound or light, it's that most gamers have no patience and they would rather drop a body with a bang. Hence stealth games turned into action games with stealth in places.

Gaming tastes change and go in phases/cycles somewhat predictably. Even if it's not a large market, there IS a market for that type of smart stealth game where patience in gameplay is paramount.

 

[Thirty7ven]

I love stealth games and I welcome the RT future don’t get me wrong. Not to mention our eyes are or primary sense we use to navigate through this world, and any jump in visuals is something I’m eager to see.

As you said the point isn’t to pit these features against each other. It’s just that both of these SSDs(BOTH) will really have a big impact, both on the games and on the development of these games. And that impact is going to be felt with the XSX and the PS5.

One of the big problems of the 360->PS4 shift was that it was really more of the same. Sure devs got smarter, came up with new tricks etc but the big shift came elsewhere, the advent of social, the sharing, the streaming. I would say this generation, when it comes to the actual games, they were all about increasing the production values in SP games and the advent of F2P games that took over the zeitgeist.

There was very little innovation though, and our expectations of the experiences themselves hardly moved an inch compared to the 360 days.

I honestly think the SSDs and how they are implemented will makes us look back in a few years and realize we had been stuck in the Stone Age for awhile there.

I think midgen refreshes will really unlock Ray tracing on a larger scale though and it will become the norm from then on. One more generation and every game will be built from the ground up on RT based tools.