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[BigJoeGrizzly]

Honestly, if putting online multiplayer behind a paywall guarantees an improved network infrastructure with further improvements in the future, I'm all for it. Sony could also use the additional revenue stream to provide additional services, and possible sure up some future gaming partnerships. Considering their consumer-friendly approach, I am willing to pay the extra membership fee to show my support.

 

[TheSeks]

If people see value in PS+ then fine. Whatever. What I hate is people dismissing others for not finding value in it and only seeing now they are losing something that they must pay for to regain.

You're my new favorite member. The GAF mental gymnastics to spin this move as a "well who doesn't like PS+?" is hilarious. I don't. 90% of what they offer I either 1) own or planned to own and 2) the rest of it is shit I don't care about.

 

[8byte]

Fewer people are "outraged" because PS+, at a surface level, looks like more than a simple paid unlock code, like XBL.

The perception of value is there, so it's an easier pill to swallow.

 

[Not Spaceghost]

Honestly, if putting online multiplayer behind a paywall guarantees an improved network infrastructure with further improvements in the future, I'm all for it. Sony could also use the additional revenue stream to provide additional services, and possible sure up some future gaming partnerships. Considering their consumer-friendly approach, I am willing to pay the extra membership fee to show my support.

I totally agree, while sure it sucks it makes total sense and I am surprised it didn't come earlier. I am not raving about it but it isn't like PSN+ is a bad value especially at 50 dollars a year, and getting driveclub free basically pays for itself.

Seriously at worst you can think of it as I am getting free games year round.

 

[RionaaM]

They're still not forcing you to subscribe.

Just like they're not forcing me to buy the console, sure. But if I want to play online, then I am forced to subscribe. Which is the point I'm making.

 

[Trey]

You're my new favorite member. The GAF mental gymnastics to spin this move as a "well who doesn't like PS+?" is hilarious. I don't. 90% of what they offer I either 1) own or planned to own and 2) the rest of it is shit I don't care about.

Yep. If I wanted PSN by now, I would have it. Forcing me into subscribing for it is a downgrade, even if it's not as bad as it could be.

 

[Alienous]

I don't think people realise how detrimental making PS Plus the only way to play online on the PS4 will be to what consumers receive from the service.

Why would they fight to have AAA content for a service that 80% of all PS4 customers have (assuming that at least 80% appreciate having access to 50% of their games)? They no longer need to dance to secure your money, they can withhold access to half of your game with the same results.

PS Plus won't be as good as it has been. I feel like it will just slowly start to mirror Xbox Live Gold.

 

[Dead Man]

If people see value in PS+ then fine. Whatever. What I hate is people dismissing others for not finding value in it and only seeing now they are losing something that they must pay for to regain.

Pretty much.

 

[Sblargh]

Yep. If I wanted PSN by now, I would have it. Forcing me into subscribing for it is a downgrade, even if it's not as bad as it could be.

I liked PS+ and I had it on my PS3 ever since it exists (only stop subscribing now because, well, I don't really have a PS3 anymore).

There's no way this isn't a downgrade. Paying for the advantages of PS+ and paying because your multiplayer is being held at ransom when it used to be free can't be considered good.

I don't think people realise how detrimental making PS Plus the only way to play online on the PS4 will be to what consumers receive from the service.

Why would they fight to have AAA content for a service that 80% of all PS4 customers have (assuming that at least 80% appreciate having access to 50% of their games)? They no longer need to dance to secure your money, that can withhold access to half of your game with the same results.

PS Plus won't be as good as it has been. I feel like it will just slowly start to mirror Xbox Live Gold.

And maybe this. Damn.

 

[Corto]

Question to PS+ users: Does Sony make it almost impossible to cancel you membership or your credit card info like Micro$oft? Because if they do, no PS4 for me.

http://imgur.com/a/5F1Uc

No. If you disable auto renewal it's completely transparent and straightforward. My Plus subscription ended last week and I had forgot I disabled auto renewall. Only when I wanted to play one of my IGC games and wasn't able to did I remembered that I needed to renew. They send an email a few days before ending as a warning to renew.

 

[test_account]

I actually wouldnt mind to pay a bit to play online (i had this opinion with Xbox Live Gold too eventhough i didnt own a Xbox 360), but i'm glad that i already see the value in PS+ on PS3 and Vita, so i was planing on continue to subscribe to PS+ anyway. This means that i wont pay anything "extra" for online play on the PS4. Kinda pity for those who dont have PS+ and want to play online on PS4 though, but at least the media apps doesnt require PS+

 

[rashbeep]

You're my new favorite member. The GAF mental gymnastics to spin this move as a "well who doesn't like PS+?" is hilarious. I don't. 90% of what they offer I either 1) own or planned to own and 2) the rest of it is shit I don't care about.

I find it irritating as well. Consoles will always be secondary to me to PC, the only game I play online is the NHL series with my club. That's it. Why should I have to pay for a service that I don't care about in order to continue doing what I've been doing for years? Like I said before it's a good service, but if I cared to have it, I'd have it already.

 

[billsmugs]

All Sony have to do for me to be completely happy about this is to allow be to buy only the single player campaign of a game for a (significantly) reduced price. They can make the online mode a 100kb unlock key for the stuff on the disc so you don't have to download it, but I shouldn't have to pay for multiplayer content that I quite likely don't want and can't use without an additional fee.

Assuming PS+ stays as good as it is now (which I'm worried will not be the case) then I'd be happy to stay a subscriber in that case. Perhaps people will think I'm stupid, but despite being a happy subscriber, I still don't want to buy a PS4 simply because of the fact that online play is tied up in the subscription.

This makes me really angry at Microsoft (and, to a certain extent, their supporters), too. If it weren't for the Xbox One DRM and XBL Gold, Sony would be getting huge amounts of flack for this decision, but as it is people are actually celebrating how great Sony is and how they care for their customers. I always saw XBL Gold subscribers as a bit daft, but I thought their willingness to pay for things that were free elsewhere wouldn't affect me. Now though, because people were happy to be ripped off in huge numbers, Sony are adopting the same strategy. I realise that from a business point of view this makes perfect sense, but that doesn't make me happy about it.

Call me an idiot if you want, but if the PS4 was £450 with free online, I'd preorder one now and keep paying for my PS+ membership, but the mere fact that that membership now includes something that should be free puts me off the console to the point that even if it cost £250 I'd still be unsure of a purchase. I realise this sounds daft, but it's not just a matter of principle: I can see the quality of the PS+ service dropping significantly as a result of this (after all, they could just never scale up the quality of the PS4 IGC beyond the current "1 cut down game or small indie title per month" and no-one could complain that they'd ever promised anything more) and there is also no guarantee that they won't raise the price of PS+ in the future (I believe MS did at least once during the 360 lifecycle with Gold).

 

[jag0]

If its a matter of principle then stand by your principles.

To be honest I am not buying a PS4 at launch. I have a PS3 + Vita + PC with enough games to last me until the second cycle where the PS4 will have dropped in price and cheap greatest hits games are available. PS+ was one of the reasons so Sony shot themselves in the foot, for me personally.

this. The leap from this gen to next so at launch isn't really that impressive that i feel really compelled to shell out 400+ dollars day 1. Couple that with the fact that day 1 hardware almost always has issues, I think I'll work through my current backlog, and start picking up the games I missed on the cheap.

STRONGLY considering a PS+ subscription though, the games they offer monthly are pretty damn compelling!

 

[LosDaddie]

Subscribed. Maybe the most enjoyable & hilarious thread on GAF in all the years I've been here! I read every page.

After all the frequent anti-XBL threads on GAF, I'm loving all the "It's just $5/mo. Have 1 less Starbucks each month" posts. There's just that tinge of irony that makes reading those posts so enjoyable.

Personally, I'm switching from maining X360 to PS4 next gen. So paying for PS+ is no big deal for me. I never paid more than $35/yr for XBL, and I'm sure there will be PS+ sub sales that I'll snag. The $100 difference & better hardware are why I'm making the switch.

I think it's hilarious that PS fans are trying to justify this. This was the biggest problem with Xbox Live. It's a ridiculous decision by Sony.

Hilarious indeed, but also completely expected.

Now all of a sudden it's ok to pay for play on Playstation. Funny how that works!

Correct.

Isn't it a bit hypocritical to blast Microsoft for 8 years for the online paywall and now shrug off Sony's policy as "eh, no big deal"?

Oh, it is very hypocritical.

 

[Violater]

Give and take, it stings but you can still play for free on PS3 no?

 

[AranhaHunter]

So I think it's the "immersive" part that will be behind the paywall. So the stuff Jack announced on stage like cross game chat will require PS+, but normal MP stays free.

I would be ok with this. Need to be clarified.

 

[Killing_Joke]

Too early to judge. It's a shitty move for non plus members. But they'll need to explain why..more dedicated servers? does it include mmos? If this was a way to give publishers some side cash then it's understandable. But at least sony is going balls to the wall to make psn+ an amazing service which it already is. So i don't think anyone is HAPPY about it or being hypocritical but simply understanding the situation. But we'll see.

 

[mf luder]

Will I be able to download game updates and patches without ps+? Firmware updates? Visit Ps store and download demos?

 

[CrunchinJelly]

Will I be able to download game updates and patches without ps+? Firmware updates? Visit Ps store and download demos?

Yeah.

Auto-patching is behind the paywall, though.

 

[Dead Man]

All Sony have to do for me to be completely happy about this is to allow be to buy only the single player campaign of a game for a (significantly) reduced price. They can make the online mode a 100kb unlock key for the stuff on the disc so you don't have to download it, but I shouldn't have to pay for multiplayer content that I quite likely don't want and can't use without an additional fee.

Assuming PS+ stays as good as it is now (which I'm worried will not be the case) then I'd be happy to stay a subscriber in that case. Perhaps people will think I'm stupid, but despite being a happy subscriber, I still don't want to buy a PS4 simply because of the fact that online play is tied up in the subscription.

This makes me really angry at Microsoft (and, to a certain extent, their supporters), too. If it weren't for the Xbox One DRM and XBL Gold, Sony would be getting huge amounts of flack for this decision, but as it is people are actually celebrating how great Sony is and how they care for their customers. I always saw XBL Gold subscribers as a bit daft, but I thought their willingness to pay for things that were free elsewhere wouldn't affect me. Now though, because people were happy to be ripped off in huge numbers, Sony are adopting the same strategy. I realise that from a business point of view this makes perfect sense, but that doesn't make me happy about it.

Call me an idiot if you want, but if the PS4 was £450 with free online, I'd preorder one now and keep paying for my PS+ membership, but the mere fact that that membership now includes something that should be free puts me off the console to the point that even if it cost £250 I'd still be unsure of a purchase. I realise this sounds daft, but it's not just a matter of principle: I can see the quality of the PS+ service dropping significantly as a result of this (after all, they could just never scale up the quality of the PS4 IGC beyond the current "1 cut down game or small indie title per month" and no-one could complain that they'd ever promised anything more) and there is also no guarantee that they won't raise the price of PS+ in the future (I believe MS did at least once during the 360 lifecycle with Gold).

I like the idea, but it ain't happening.

 

[mbmonk]

So I think it's the "immersive" part that will be behind the paywall. So the stuff Jack announced on stage like cross game chat will require PS+, but normal MP stays free.

Jack Trenton's interview on Gametrailers today said MP was behind a paywall. He didn't qualify that statement all. So it looks like the above is not the case.

Yeah.

Auto-patching is behind the paywall, though.

Really? That seems pretty crappy. Auto update and patching should be for all PSN accounts.

 

[Yazuka]

Yeah, it sucks. But it doesn't bother me as much as I think it should. Might be because I already have PS+ and think it offers a great value. Still suck though and suck even more for those without ps+.

 

[Jomjom]

Sucks that Sony is following MS by charging for online. The only reason I'm even remotely ok with this is because PS+ is such a good deal with just the free games that I have it subbed until the end of the world already anyway.

 

[test_account]

Isn't it a bit hypocritical to blast Microsoft for 8 years for the online paywall and now shrug off Sony's policy as "eh, no big deal"?

Oh, it is very hypocritical.

Did anyone say this? What reason did they give that it was not ok on Xbox Live, but ok on PSN?

 

[Ikuu]

Did anyone say this? What reason did they give that it was not ok on Xbox Live, but ok on PSN?

You get Drive Club PS+ Version.

 

[Freshmaker]

Yeah, it sucks. But it doesn't bother me as much as I think it should. Might be because I already have PS+ and think it offers a great value. Still suck though and suck even more for those without ps+.

Works for me since I won't be renewing Live again. Might as well put that money towards Sony instead.

 

[crazygambit]

On the one hand this sucks and I would never pay for online, since I'm such a light user. But then right now PS+ is the best $50 I've ever spent on gaming given I have a PS3 and Vita, so it's not so terrible.

It might get new PS4 owners to buy a Vita though, seeing all the free games, so that would be a plus.

If at any time the service starts to decline I can always opt out I guess.

 

[MIMIC]

How much is their online network going to be?

EDIT: $50?

 

[Iced_Eagle]

How much is their online network going to be?

EDIT: $50?

$5 / month, so $60 a year, unless they have a discount if you buy a year at once, and then it could be $50.

 

[Darth Kupi]

Whats all this bullshit about "yeah but its expected".

MS' DRM policy was also "expected", all entertainment media companies are moving towards this kind of bullshit DRM, but we saw no end of bitching towards that and rightly so.

Being a sony fanboy is not suddenly cool just because sony won a victory today.

Organise another #PS4NOPAIDONLINE campaign then, bitch about this, raise awareness, make sony and sony's potential customers understand this is NOT COOL.

How many people here went PS3 because of the free online? People pay for PS+ as an extra, to support sony even though theres no obligation. It doesn't cost them anything to make a digital copy of a game appear in your library that you would'nt have bought anyway.


Put up or shut up about "customer first".


I've never bought an xbox because I don't want to pay for online so xbone was a no-go for me even before DRM-gate, and if sony charges, then sorry even with their great decision to reject DRM which I give them much kudos for, I'll stick with PC for multiplayer, maybe buy a PS4 many years down the line after a few revisions/price cuts to play exclusive singleplayer games.

Its this same bullshit "b-b-but its okayyyyy, its great valueeee" that was spouted by xbox fanboys which led to XBL gold adoption in the first place. Its like looking into a mirror into the past.

Why are the same multiplat games, running on dedicated servers, not even XBL crap P2P, free to play multiplayer online on PC?

 

[Fixed1979]

$5 / month, so $60 a year, unless they have a discount if you buy a year at once, and then it could be $50.

They do.

 

[illmatic19]

Yeah it sucks but it's certainly not a deal breaker. I've been paying for Live since the start.

 

[Joeki11a]

Lets be honest PS+ is not a bad deal so all PS gamers need to get on this train and support it, however I hope they keep adding alot more features for PS4.

 

[Shambles]

Lets be honest PS+ is not a bad deal so all PS gamers need to get on this train and support it, however I hope they keep adding alot more features for PS4.

PS+ on the PS3 was a good deal, one that I gladly passed on but had value for what you got. Locking multiplayer behind a paywall on the PS4 is utter shit.

 

[MightyHedgehog]

Over the years, there were so many hundreds if not thousands of posts that declared that people would quit the system or even refuse to buy it if online was paid for. Are those people sticking to their guns or have they realized that it's a bit of an empty bluff? Curious to see how quickly people adapt to this change. I mean, Sony didn't technically change their DRM for PS4, but, in fact, they really have with this change to something so near-identical to how XBL works.

 

[PaulLFC]

This sucks for people who weren't subscribed to Plus, and didn't plan on subscribing. It's okay for me since it's "free" while I already have Plus, but it's annoying for people that don't have it. I do think that as a service PS+ is better value than Xbox Live, though. I feel personally that I get more for my money. Let's compare, and if I've missed out anything that should be included I'll edit:

PS+
1 free PS4 game per month (DriveClub PS+ edition at launch)
3 free PS3 games per month
2 free Vita games per month
Cloud save backups
Automatic updates
PS4 online multiplayer
Various discounts
Exclusive betas

XBL Gold
Online multiplayer on 360 and Xbox One
2 free Xbox 360 games per month (but you get to keep them (I think)?)
Video streaming services (Netflix etc)
Social services (Facebook, Twitter etc)
Internet Explorer (think this is Gold only, not sure)
Various discounts
Exclusivity period for demos


How much value each service is all depends on what other consoles you own, and what games you buy for those consoles. For me I've found PS+ to be a great way to catch up on games I either hadn't got around to buying yet, or wasn't sure enough about to buy at their current price points. Since they're "free" it gave me a good opportunity to play them, and having a Vita meant more "free" stuff, so the sub made, and currently still makes, sense for me.

There's no denying this is a step back in the "things Sony had over MS" list, but if it means a better network and more innovations like Gaikai, I can live with it. I'm glad it's not an extra sub on top of PS+, that would have been too far.

 

[Revan]

Sony just updated the PS plus IGC for June.

Uncharted 3, on the games main page, is 40GB download.....

or so I thought. I went to the the download list and saw that there are options for downloading UC3:

SP Only
MP Only
Language Packs
etc

Point of this is I highly....HIGHLY believe that this method is what will be used on PSN going forward, and I do think that it is entirely possible that we will be able to purchase SP only, MP only or the whole game in the next gen.

Having the option to split up the services makes me think that more devs might embrace this, meaning lower cost of games depending on what you want.

Hell, it is entirely possible that devs might say that the SP is 30$ and the MP is 15$, but required to have PS+ membership to buy it.

The PS+ paywall, while not great, isn't nearly as bad in my eyes, especially compared to XBLA. Being forced to sub for fifty bucks a year for MP blows but I think that Sony is the lesser of two evils this gen (well, currently in this gen. Who knows how MS will react to this).

EDIT: Spelling.

 

[entremet]

So this is cognitive dissonance the thread lol.

 

[funkystudent]

Will Sony having paid online mean they are handling all the matchmaking and servers like MS?

 

[something fishy]

When I get a console it'll be this as its cheaper and its more powerful without forced kinect crap but it'll be a while as I haven't seen the games that interest yet. Pc only for the first year I think.

I've paid for live so it would not be a problem for me really, I don't currently bother with ps plus though as I don't have a vita and have always owned the big games already.

 

[BigDug13]

Here's my issue with it. They didn't have to do it. At all.

Between Drive Club, all the free SOE games like Planetside 2, free games each month, heavily discounted digital game purchases, cloud storage, 1 hour free trials of full games instead of alpha build demos, for ALL Playstation systems including PSP, PSV, PS3, PS4.

It's incredible value right now and if you own these systems it's one of the best deals currently available. But then they decide to basically force players into purchasing it by making it mandatory for online. Why was this needed? Are there really that many Playstation 3 owners who aren't doing PS+?

My other issue is that with people being forced to get it, eventually they'll scale back the free games and content. Why? Because they already have you in their online ecosystem, so they're not going to lose you. So why should they keep giving you free stuff at that point? So PS+ free games will get scaled back. It's inevitable.

I hope the Sony Online Entertainment offerings make up for the scaled back PS+ benefits list we'll eventually have.

 

[offshore]

It sucks, as I usually dip in and out of PS+ depending on what's offered.

But yeah, watching the total about turn from the Sony cohort is very amusing.

 

[Dreams-Visions]

Already being a PS+ subscriber, it's fine for me.

But if I weren't already a PS+ member, I'd be salty. Not that PS+ isn't a great service, but free online play was a big deal for a long time and still is for many PS gamers. Now that I've had PS+ for maybe 6 months, there's no way I'd have a PS system without it...but that's something you kinda have to discover.

They should add 3 months of free PS+ to launch window buyers. Something to give people the opportunity to see how nice getting all this free shit every month really is.

 

[CrunchinJelly]

Here's my issue with it. They didn't have to do it. At all.

Between Drive Club, all the free SOE games like Planetside 2, free games each month, heavily discounted digital game purchases, cloud storage, 1 hour free trials of full games instead of alpha build demos, for ALL Playstation systems including PSP, PSV, PS3, PS4.

It's incredible value right now and if you own these systems it's one of the best deals currently available. But then they decide to basically force players into purchasing it by making it mandatory for online. Why was this needed? Are there really that many Playstation 3 owners who aren't doing PS+?

My other issue is that with people being forced to get it, eventually they'll scale back the free games and content. Why? Because they already have you in their online ecosystem, so they're not going to lose you. So why should they keep giving you free stuff at that point? So PS+ free games will get scaled back. It's inevitable.

I hope the Sony Online Entertainment offerings make up for the scaled back PS+ benefits list we'll eventually have.

It was needed because online play is a huge hook which ensures millions more people will subscribe.

 

[Face it Tiger..]

Overall that's disappointing

But there is more give than there is take from SCEI.

You win this time, Sqaure-Enix box.

 

[Izick]

Okay, I said it before but as long as they:

1.) Increase stabilty
2.) Faster download speeds
3.) Set a date and time for the PS store (this is a must, and it's terrible how neither the PS360 do this by now; inexcusable, really)

If I get those, then I'm fine with it. I know that PS4 + isn't going to be as good as PS3 plus early on, likely because they're not going to give full games away (even DriveCulb is somewhat limited) and the cloud stuff is coming in 2014, but I'll be more than happy to pay for a better service if I get those three things. I did it for Gold and was fine then, and I'll do it for Plus if it delivers a better experience as well.

 

[Jacksonlee]

for a gamer like me who don't game often. - (but games hard when i do) - this is.... a huge setback, after considering the quality of the PS+ that will surely decrease from now on.

i'd really like to play BF4 or Destiny public events /commander whatnot, but then i guess i have to purchase the PS+ now then.


well, i guess i can stock up when its on sale for 29.99 on ebay ha.

 

[spwolf]

You're my new favorite member. The GAF mental gymnastics to spin this move as a "well who doesn't like PS+?" is hilarious. I don't. 90% of what they offer I either 1) own or planned to own and 2) the rest of it is shit I don't care about.

i understand what you are saying... but PS+is so awesome to me that I cant properly comprehend your stance. It basically got me back to console gaming and thanks to it I played some awesome games that I never would have, and got tons and tons of value.

I think us PS+ owners are being selfish a bit... on the other hand, it will make my bro get PS+ for his son, which will also get him tons of games he usually would not have gotten due to moneyz.

So PS+ is making world a better place

 

[EGM1966]

Whats all this bullshit about "yeah but its expected".

MS' DRM policy was also "expected", all entertainment media companies are moving towards this kind of bullshit DRM, but we saw no end of bitching towards that and rightly so.

Being a sony fanboy is not suddenly cool just because sony won a victory today.

Organise another #PS4NOPAIDONLINE campaign then, bitch about this, raise awareness, make sony and sony's potential customers understand this is NOT COOL.

How many people here went PS3 because of the free online? People pay for PS+ as an extra, to support sony even though theres no obligation. It doesn't cost them anything to make a digital copy of a game appear in your library that you would'nt have bought anyway.


Put up or shut up about "customer first".


I've never bought an xbox because I don't want to pay for online so xbone was a no-go for me even before DRM-gate, and if sony charges, then sorry even with their great decision to reject DRM which I give them much kudos for, I'll stick with PC for multiplayer, maybe buy a PS4 many years down the line after a few revisions/price cuts to play exclusive singleplayer games.

Its this same bullshit "b-b-but its okayyyyy, its great valueeee" that was spouted by xbox fanboys which led to XBL gold adoption in the first place. Its like looking into a mirror into the past.

Why are the same multiplat games, running on dedicated servers, not even XBL crap P2P, free to play multiplayer online on PC?

I don't like it but it's expected because the market voted for it. I don't like it because I didn't like Live Gold but the reality is the market showed it would pay for online. The difference with the DRM is Xbone is that there is no precedent - and indeed it seems (thankfully) a fair chunk of the market is rejecting it.

Sadly the market did not reject Xbox Live Gold (I blame myself too paying for it for three years before ditching it) so the damage was done by the market and Sony is simply responding to a revenue stream many have shown they are willing to pay.

I'm annoyed - but:

• they are not putting anything else behind the paywall like MS did
• I understand a single Plus membership on a console covers all other accounts unlike MS where each accout needed Gold or you needed a family account
• DRM is optional and in the hands of publishers making it very easy to skip those I don't like/approve

So while it's a shame Plus is still very much the lesser of two evils in my book - it's going to cost a lot less for multiple accounts and you actually get more than Live in terms of free games, etc.

Still, I wish I'd never paid for Live and that most others hadn't either. But we did and this is the result. I really don't blame Sony for the most part and I just hope the line in the sand is drawn with the much more consumer friendly Plus vs Live policies.