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[dark10x]

Well it's a safe assumption they're shooting for 30 fps and would cap it there. So if there's tearing, it must be because the fps is dropping below 30.

Why must that be so?

I just tested Half-Life 2 on my PC with vertical sync disabled and used "FPS_MAX 30" to prevent the framerate from going beyond 30 fps. The framerate was clocking in at 30 fps on the dot, yet there was tearing all over the place. If what you are saying were true, this would not be the case, would it? We've seen this plenty of times in the past on consoles. It is obviously possible to prevent a framerate from exceeding a certain point while tearing continues to occur.

thats simply not true, ive been playing quake 3 @ 125fps for more years than i can remember and the game has zero tearing, absolutely none

/slaps head

When dealing with the PC, you actually have OPTIONS! That's right, you can enable or disable vertical sync! If you don't see tearing, chances are good that v-sync is enabled (though that would require your monitor to display at 125hz).

With Vista SP1, a bug was introduced that prevented nVidia control panel from enabling system wide v-sync. Many games lack the ability to enable this from within the software, however, so tearing occured. Halo 2 on the PC, for instance, was running at an insanely high framerate but also suffered from hardcore tearing.

Anyways, if you people want to think I'm just making shit up to support the PS3, do as you please.

 

[Core407]

Holy shit, nothing touches GT5P still.

 

[CrapSandwich]

Why must that be so?

I just tested Half-Life 2 on my PC with vertical sync disabled and used "FPS_MAX 30" to prevent the framerate from going beyond 30 fps. The framerate was clocking in at 30 fps on the dot, yet there was tearing all over the place. If what you are saying were true, this would not be the case, would it? We've seen this plenty of times in the past on consoles. It is obviously possible to prevent a framerate from exceeding a certain point while tearing continues to occur.

It depends on if you monitor is set to refresh at a multiple of 30. If you're running at a solid 30 FPS, but your monitor's refreshing at 100, then yes there would be tearing.

edit: Basically there's only 2 ways you're getting tearing since we know the target fps is 30. Either the fps is jumping above 30 fps or below. To assume it's going over 30 fps is to suggest they didn't cap it. That would be insane! They'd be introducing tearing in every instance where the fps goes over 30. Obviously you want to cap your frame rate at 30 or 60 for anything played on a TV.

 

[tha_con]

The game clearly looks/runs better on the 360. I honestly don't know what Dark is looking at.

(neutral) JB1981
I am full of shit.
Rich, smooth, creamy shit.
(Today, 01:21 AM)
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I do not agree.

It is smoother, but does not run 'better'. Played both, and both ran at 30fps. I agree with Dark, the differences really boil down to AA and tearing, and that's all I could really notice.

There's not denying that the 360 version is smoother, for certain, but in no way is it 'night and day'.

Your reactions are always over the top anyway, so I hardly expect anything less.

 

[WindyMan]

I played the demo a good bit online for a while and I have to say I love it. It definitely has the Race Driver feel to it. It really feels like you're driving a race car against other people and you really need to be careful about being overly aggressive. If you take a turn too hard you'll come out too slow, or worse, clip the outside dirt and take a spin. I don't see why people are saying the handling feels terrible, though. It can do better, but maybe you guys should grow a pair and turn off some of the driving aids.

However, it seems that with the brave new online world of crash-damage racing, EVERYONE assumes that if two people crash, it's the other guy's fault. More than a couple of times someone rammed into me from behind while I was diving into a slow-speed corner in the middle of a race, for no reason that I could come up with. Other times I'm racing hard with someone and am either level with them or slightly ahead, holding my line on a turn, and they decide to completely ignore the fact that I'm there and swing wide (right into me) to setup for the corner or not to bother braking early to let me pass when I've clearly made the move. I always give people room when they've earned it. Instead of expecting the same from other people, I get kicked from rooms any time I slam into an accident in front of me that I have no way to avoid.

The game is great online, but unless everyone is really good at keeping their space while racing, it's not going to be fun for many people.

 

[dark10x]

It depends on if you monitor is set to refresh at a multiple of 30. If you're running at a solid 30 FPS, but your monitor's refreshing at 100, then yes there would be tearing.

edit: Basically there's only 2 ways you're getting tearing since we know the target fps is 30. Either the fps is jumping above 30 fps or below. To assume it's going over 30 fps is to suggest they didn't cap it. That would be insane! They'd be introducing tearing in every instance where the fps goes over 30. Obviously you want to cap your frame rate at 30 or 60 for anything played on a TV.

My monitor is set to 60hz and the framerate was locked at 30 fps (in Half-Life 2). There was tearing.

Oddly enough, I spun the cars around in GRID on PS3 and the tearing is very much like the HL2 example. If you watch the edges of everything you see the typical 30 fps doubling effect and it remains rock solid. Tearing lines occur in addition to this, however. The main point is, the areas of the screen where tearing does not occur continue to move at a constant rate.

Basically, the framerate in GRID PS3 is exactly the same as Half-Life 2 locked at 30 fps with v-sync disabled. I can do this in older Quake engine games too and get the same result (they also offer a framerate limiter).

I will say that, after flipping back and forth between the PS3 and 360 versions of GRID it may actually be possible that I was wrong about the resolution. It MIGHT be running at sub-720p. However, it may also be the fact that the PS3 is outputting straight 720p via HDMI while I'm using 1360x768 over VGA on 360. That tends to improve the image quality a bit on all 360 games. Halo 3 has very soft edges when using other cables, but VGA at 1360x768 produces razor sharp imagery on my TV.

I also noticed a slight difference in lighting when looking very closely. The 360 version has a bit more intensity to its colors. It's similar to the differences in GTAIV only in reverse (360 version has warmer colors).

 

[rabhw]

Just played GRID online, it's pretty fun, I am not really liking how the cars handle though. I'm not really great at racing games, but I'm pretty sure cars don't react that way in real life. If you accelerate when your wheels aren't turned and you aren't moving, but have just finished spinning out, WHY DO I KEEP SPINNING IN CIRCLES. It's like my wheels are suddenly made of egg whites and the road is made of ice.

Edit: Also, is there a way to play online with just friends? I don't see any friends options, although its just a demo obviously. PS3 version btw. I'm eager to play the

Spoiler

definitive?

PC version tomorrow @ 1200p + 60fps + as much AA and AF as I want.

 

[bee]

/slaps head

When dealing with the PC, you actually have OPTIONS! That's right, you can enable or disable vertical sync! If you don't see tearing, chances are good that v-sync is enabled (though that would require your monitor to display at 125hz).

With Vista SP1, a bug was introduced that prevented nVidia control panel from enabling system wide v-sync. Many games lack the ability to enable this from within the software, however, so tearing occured. Halo 2 on the PC, for instance, was running at an insanely high framerate but also suffered from hardcore tearing.
.

umm i know you have options, im saying the monitor is running 120hz, the game is running 125fps and vsync is 100% not turned on and the game has zero tearing not a single one, i think i'd notice if it did being that ive been playing it with those settings for over 6 years

 

[belvedere]

Holy shit, nothing touches GT5P still.

/thread

 

[Agent Ironside]

My biggest complaint is the 3rd person camera, its too tight, I hate when racing games do that, when the camera follows your every movement. Forza 2 did a great job with it though.

 

[Kibbles]

How the hell do you drift in this game? They want me to go over 700,000!? I can barley get 200,000 :lol

[edit] Getting better now, I was at 694,000 Got 200,000 in one large drift, x8.

 

[dark10x]

Here's what annoys me about this situation. I WAS giving honest impressions but basically told that I was full of shit. When Call of Duty 4 was just released I immediately noted that the PS3 version was using lower resolution textures and suffered from more slowdown. Yet, people slammed me and claimed I was lying in that case. I was claiming the 360 version was vastly superior.

In this case, I'm still claiming the 360 version is superior, but I don't believe the difference is particularly large (assets are the same this time). The differences seemed very minor to me yet people claim I'm full of shit and starting to slip?! You guys are out of control.

I'm telling it like I see it. I didn't actually "study" the game with my first impressions, but I wasn't spewing bullshit.

...and the framerate thing. I KNOW what f*cking 30 fps looks like. I can see clearly that the framerate is 30 fps while spinning in place. I can't explain why there is screen tearing within a stable framerate environment, but there it is and I've witnessed it within a PC environment as well.

umm i know you have options, im saying the monitor is running 120hz, the game is running 125fps and vsync is 100% not turned on and the game has zero tearing not a single one, i think i'd notice if it did being that ive been playing it with those settings for over 6 years

I'd have to see that to believe it as I was unable to reproduce that. How exactly are you getting exactly 125 fps? Are you using some sort of command to lock it at 125? That doesn't even make sense if your refresh is 120. Also, if you have no troubles hitting that framerate, why the hell wouldn't you use v-sync?! It doesn't make sense to me that you would have your monitor at 120hz while getting 125 fps without v-sync. That's not a multiple so it would tear and even if it were a multiple you'd still see tearing.

What type of display are you using (make/model)?

I just tried it myself. Unlocked framerate without v-sync produces 992 frames per second. 0_o The demo was over in just a couple of seconds, but the tearing was so extreme it looked as if the screen were broken into 50 pieces.

 

[rabhw]

Also, I know it was like this in DiRT, but is it REALLY necessary to have the windshield crack when some douchebag decides to play bumper cars and drive backwards on the track, etc. It makes cockpit view TOTALLY unplayable. Yeah it's more realistic, but it sucks.

 

[Router]

Hmmmmmm. Ok, I finally got the hang of the drifting. Since the rest of the racing series are "serious" I have no idea why your drifting in a dockyard with boxed ans shit in the way.

Getting used to the handling... Not nearly as good as it was in the last toca game, they really need to change it before the game comes out.

Visually its freaking amazing. The cleanest racer by a long shot. Cockpit view on San Fran in the middle of the pack had my mouth wide open.

I'm still trying to find a good mix of settings... Really cant find the sweet spot.

Online was very good. No lag at all just the usual "wobbly cars" that you get when racing online most o the time. Won all but two of my racers since the retards figured rather than loose to me they should t-bone me out of the race so they could win.... Go team retard!

I really want them to fix up the handling before they release it, if they don't then I guess I can adapt if the settings are more complex in the release version. I adapted to DiRT just fine. I don't know. I guess I can appreciate different racing games rather than stupidly hold one above all others, no matter what comes out.

 

[Shogmaster]

You know what this thread sez to me? That the SDF are now a bitter bitter lot. But I love the bitter taste and this thread is just up my alley. *sips on ice old bottle of Tejava*

 

[GauntletFan]

WOW the gfx are insane. The car models, track, environment, lighting, reflections, everything. This is the best looking racer of the gen so far, in my opinion, especially when you take into account the extensive damage model. And the best part is it doesn't even feel like 30 fps.

Visually its freaking amazing. The cleanest racer by a long shot. Cockpit view on San Fran in the middle of the pack had my mouth wide open.

True words. Truly a stunning game. San Fran track shows they managed to match the initial gameplay trailer.

And why the GT5 defense force are in here is beyond me, can't we discuss GRID?

 

[bee]

I'd have to see that to believe it as I was unable to reproduce that. How exactly are you getting exactly 125 fps? Are you using some sort of command to lock it at 125? That doesn't even make sense if your refresh is 120. Also, if you have no troubles hitting that framerate, why the hell wouldn't you use v-sync?! It doesn't make sense to me that you would have your monitor at 120hz while getting 125 fps without v-sync. That's not a multiple so it would tear and even if it were a multiple you'd still see tearing.

What type of display are you using (make/model)?

I just tried it myself. Unlocked framerate without v-sync produces 992 frames per second. 0_o The demo was over in just a couple of seconds, but the tearing was so extreme it looked as if the screen were broken into 50 pieces.

/com_maxfps 125 (physics are fps based, 125 is a magic number, setting 120 will still give 125)
/r_displayrefresh 120 (monitors cant do 125hz)

Iiyama Vision Master Pro 454

vsync gives minor input lag and i have no tearing so why enable it, anyway enough of that back to grid or waiting for the pc demo anyway :/

 

[Mutagenic]

My monitor is set to 60hz

I feel so sorry for your eyes.

 

[nib95]

The PS3 version doesn't run with 2xAA. It's definitely 4xAA imo. There's not a single jag in sight when I'm playing, and my Kuro is professionally calibrated. My guess is dark has the sharpness turned up way too much.

Also, it will be interesting to see which version is better. With DIRT, the 360 version was the tiniest bit sharper, but the PS3 version had better lighting, better colours, a smoother frame rate, less bloom and a few extra little effects here and there. Codemasters even went on record saying the PS3 version was the superior version and that it was the "younger slimmer and healthier version of the game". I believe Codemasters actually use a multiplatform PS3 engine.

I'd compare the versions with screens, but my GOLD subscription ran out, and I refuse to renew.

 

[chespace]

True words. Truly a stunning game. San Fran track shows they managed to match the initial gameplay trailer.

And why the GT5 defense force are in here is beyond me, can't we discuss GRID?

What I love about this game is that the track environments feel so full of life, whether it's the crowds, the destructable barriers, the waving flags and banners, and particles/debris from contact and burnt rubber.

Does a very good job of feeling gritty.

 

[Sinnoch]

What I love about this game is that the track environments feel so full of life, whether it's the crowds, the destructable barriers, the waving flags and banners, and particles/debris from contact and burnt rubber.

Does a very good job of feeling gritty.

If you get Forza 3 looking like this, I'll be in heaven. I don't need GT5 car models, just a nice clean sharp image like GRID is doing.

 

[Router]

And why the GT5 defense force are in here is beyond me, can't we discuss GRID?

Its a rule here. All racing game threads not about GT5 must be turned into threads about GT5.

 

[dark10x]

/com_maxfps 125 (physics are fps based, 125 is a magic number, setting 120 will still give 125)
/r_displayrefresh 120 (monitors cant do 125hz)

Iiyama Vision Master Pro 454

vsync gives minor input lag and i have no tearing so why enable it, anyway enough of that back to grid or waiting for the pc demo anyway :/

Doesn't work for me. 120hz + 125 framerate limit = tearing

Magic monitor?

I feel so sorry for your eyes.

Only when I game, of course. 60hz looks much better than 120hz (which produces additional blurring). The extra blurring is very slight, however, so most wouldn't notice it, but it bugs me. It's also easier to drive games at 60hz with v-sync.

I use an LCD at work and my living room TV is a plasma so it's not as if I'm straining my eyes. I can't stand using a CRT at 60hz while in Windows, however. It doesn't bother me in gaming.

The PS3 version doesn't run with 2xAA. It's definitely 4xAA imo. There's not a single jag in sight when I'm playing, and my Kuro is professionally calibrated. My guess is dark has the sharpness turned up way too much.

No, it's not that. The 360 version sports superior image quality, that much is certain.

I'm using the PS3 in 720p mode with my Kuro set to PC input over HDMI (no overscan). That produces the cleanest image and sharpness controls become disabled. It's still very clean on PS3, but not to the same degree as the 360 version.

 

[SolidSnakex]

Its a rule here. All racing game threads not about GT5 must be turned into threads about GT5.

Very few people have even mentioned it in this thread. And it's rather amusing that GauntletFan would take issue with it given his actions in the Prologue thread.

 

[CrapSandwich]

My monitor is set to 60hz and the framerate was locked at 30 fps (in Half-Life 2). There was tearing.

You got me on this one, then. I guess v-sync must be enabled no matter what, even with a steady fps. I'm guessing if it's updating its frames at the wrong moment, that's going to cause tearing, even with a solid fps. I think I learned something new today!

Still, the tearing is pretty minimal on the PS3 version. I don't think it's much of an issue. Overall the graphics are okay... I love IQ more than anything and the aliasing killed my joy after looking at the 360 ver. OTOH, I thought the game felt much better with the sixaxis than with the 360 pad. Playing the 360 ver. felt boring and lifeless. On PS3 it really jived with me. However, 360 ver. with the wheel was fucktastic. I would probably not get this game if I only had a 360 pad to play it with. Otherwise it was a solid experience.

 

[plagiarize]

Oh, once again. Not that I care, this game is shit anyway, but why is PS3 inferior so often? I own both consoles and I play more with my PS3 (warhawk etc.) but I'm really starting to think that the PS3 is inferior. Maybe not with the potential but overall...

PS3 is harder to code for and only a few developers are currently up to the task.

to eek out the extra power (or it seems to even run par with the 360) you need to really put a lot more time and focus into the PS3 version.

it absolutely can be done as we've seen with Burnout Paradise. as developers have gained experience we've seen the gap narrow to where it is today... with the 360 still slightly ahead in multiplatform games, but by the smallest of margins.

as PS3 sales make up more of the multiplatform sales, more money will be spent on the PS3 versions and things will improve.

don't expect the ps3 to do any more than reverse the tables though. i'm sure in a year or two your average ps3 game will be as marginally better than 360 games, as 360 games are marginally better than ps3 games today.

 

[AgentOtaku]

Played the PS3 version for a bit via HDMI on 40" Bravia at 720p

...and yeah, 360 version looks better to me as well. Especially when you load up the BMW Touring Car challenge. 360 version is a solid 30 where as PS3 version struggles noticably....also, did anyone by chance notice the PS3 version putting out less smoke during skids and what not?
Oh and while I don't know specifically what amount of AA the PS3 sku is putting out...it most definitely does not match the 360 version
So for me it's a shame to actually see the PS3 version with these short-comings, as I was someone who skipped out on the 360 version of DiRT for PS3 sku

...though to be fair, this really is the nit-pickiest of shit and the average player is gonna have a ball regardless of what platform they pick it up on

PS: playing it with a DualShock3 felt niiiice!

 

[Mutagenic]

Only when I game, of course.

I have a CRT, and there's no way I'd game without 100hz refresh and v-sync on. I play older games at low resolutions, so luckily my system is far from taxed.

 

[Bidermaier]

What I love about this game is that the track environments feel so full of life, whether it's the crowds, the destructable barriers, the waving flags and banners, and particles/debris from contact and burnt rubber.

Does a very good job of feeling gritty.

You forget one of the most important ingredients that help things look natural. Antialiasing.

Jaggies makes graphics look like graphics.
Smoothness helps graphics look like actual things

 

[Core407]

Played the PS3 version for a bit via HDMI on 40" Bravia at 720p

...and yeah, 360 version looks better to me as well. Especially when you load up the BMW Touring Car challenge. 360 version is a solid 30 where as PS3 version struggles noticably....also, did anyone by chance notice the PS3 version putting out less smoke during skids and what not?
Oh and while I don't know specifically what amount of AA the PS3 sku is putting out...it most definitely does not match the 360 version
So for me it's a shame to actually see the PS3 version with these short-comings, as I was someone who skipped out on the 360 version of DiRT for PS3 sku

...though to be fair, this really is the nit-pickiest of shit and the average player is gonna have a ball regardless of what platform they pick it up on

PS: playing it with a DualShock3 felt niiiice!

I don't get it. NEon was designed for the PS3 with Sony helping. DiRT looked better on PS3 too, so I can't see how this doesn't. Also, i didn't notice any slow down at all on the PS3 demo.

 

[AgentOtaku]

I don't get it. NEon was designed for the PS3 with Sony helping. DiRT looked better on PS3 too, so I can't see how this doesn't. Also, i didn't notice any slow down at all on the PS3 demo.

I didn't notice any slowdown at all either at first....then I loaded up the Touring Car challenge

....and someone a few pages back actually posted the specifics of the PS3 and Codemasters supposed co-development of the neon engine

But yes, I was suprised as you were...but then again not really, when all of Codemasters PR came from the 360 version

 

[Router]

Very few people have even mentioned it in this thread. And it's rather amusing that GauntletFan would take issue with it given his actions in the Prologue thread.

Yeah, I just realized it was GauntletFan I was replying to. Still, looking back on some Forza and PGR threads... Its a sad state

 

[burgerdog]

Tried the ps3 version, can't deny the fact that it is jaggier, but that's a given considering one is 4x and the other 2x. Other than that, there's not much of a difference. I only encountered tearing during the race start up, nothing after that. No framerate drops either, I'm with Dark on this one.

 

[Yoboman]

This game is so awesome, absolutely love it. Best racer so far this gen IMO

I hope Codemasters continues to give unique Aussie V8 content like they did last gen

 

[burgerdog]

Oh! btw, the xboxlivefiles.com site is awesome. I was getting 5mb/s on my Grid demo.

 

[Drewsy]

meh, I liked Dirt better.

This game is like a fusion of Motorstorm Midnight Club and Forza.

 

[Router]

I hope Codemasters continues to give unique Aussie V8 content like they did last gen

Not very likely... I still hold out hope. Plus I plan on spamming Codemasters with emails until they give me my V8's and Mt Panorama.

 

[sinnergy]

Played the PS3 version for a bit via HDMI on 40" Bravia at 720p

...and yeah, 360 version looks better to me as well. Especially when you load up the BMW Touring Car challenge. 360 version is a solid 30 where as PS3 version struggles noticably....also, did anyone by chance notice the PS3 version putting out less smoke during skids and what not?
Oh and while I don't know specifically what amount of AA the PS3 sku is putting out...it most definitely does not match the 360 version
So for me it's a shame to actually see the PS3 version with these short-comings, as I was someone who skipped out on the 360 version of DiRT for PS3 sku

...though to be fair, this really is the nit-pickiest of shit and the average player is gonna have a ball regardless of what platform they pick it up on

PS: playing it with a DualShock3 felt niiiice!

PS3 version has 2x AA, X360 version 4X.

I don't get it. NEon was designed for the PS3 with Sony helping. DiRT looked better on PS3 too, so I can't see how this doesn't. Also, i didn't notice any slow down at all on the PS3 demo.

To be honest they did cut polygons from DIRT in the PS3 version to let it run smoother....

 

[RBH]

Just tried out the 360 demo, and I had a lot of fun with it.

Presentation is slick, framerate is really smooth, and even though the handling is a little iffy, it was actually pretty enjoyable (something I didn't expect since I hated the DiRT demo). As someone else said, it reminded me a little of Daytona.

Overall, a really nice demo that exceeded my expectations.

 

[chubigans]

I like how the XMB preview video is 60 fps.

 

[Omeyocan]

After giving it a try....

GT5P>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>GRID

 

[sinnergy]

After giving it a try....

GT5P>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>GRID

No shit?? They don't even compare :lol

 

[AgentOtaku]

No shit?? They don't even compare :lol

 

[2real4tv]

Is it me or is there pop-up in the reflections on the hood:
http://www.gamersyde.com/stream_7134_en.html

 

[thirtytwoutside]

I've been playing the demo for a bit. The drifting is exactly what I hoped it would be - if there was an entire game based on the drift event, I would buy it day 1.

 

[rgun]

LOVE .. THIS >> GAME!!!!

Awesome.

And the COCKPIT View is just amazing.

Although it does look very much like DiRT but thats a good thing.

FIRST DAY PICK UP.

 

[SIP YEK NOD]

I've been playing the demo for a bit. The drifting is exactly what I hoped it would be - if there was an entire game based on the drift event, I would buy it day 1.

you expected it to reward track position 20 times better than angle or speed, and it to only begin counting the scoring immediately if you use the E-brake, and not if you simply power over?

you have damn low standards. Juiced 2s Drifting was far less realistic, but far more fun.

 

[rgun]

you have damn low standards. Juiced 2s Drifting was far less realistic, but far more fun.

Oh god NO!! Do not compare this amazing GEM to that Shitty Juiced game. That game simply terrible. I think I puked all over my floor after playing that game. Dis Gus Ting.

 

[Router]

After giving it a try....

GT5P>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>GRID

 

[antiloop]

oh god, terrible framerate and terrible bloom. But at least it looks next-gen.