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[chillybright]

Tagged spoilers below.

I watched through Stardust Crusaders (anime) and really enjoyed it. It had all good things I like about shonen anime and very few things that kept me away from them.

1. It has no bullshit paddling or filler, and gets into action immediately.
2. The plot is simplistic and effective:
   Spoiler

   we need to defeat the baddies to save someone, let's go.
3. The powers are interesting and both sides are creative in abusing them.
4. Villains are well designed and there is actual stake in play.
5. Combats are brutal and don't get resolved by Talk-No-Jutsu.
6. Most characters are exaggeratedly masculine which is a breath of fresh air in anime. (No more boy band style.)
7. No more high school tropes, it actually feels like an adventure. (Like Onepiece.)

So after finishing Stardust Crusaders, I was thrilled to jump into Diamond Is Unbreakable. However to my surprise I had to drag myself even to the 13th episode. (

Spoiler

Currently the crew has encountered the crazy manga artist who can turn people into books.

) The change is style is so drastic and I hate most of them:

1. The first thing I noticed was the art style change. It is less detailed and more "funky"? Characters are less masculine.
2. There are
   Spoiler

   idiotic main character (Okuyasu Nijimura) and whiny helpless main character (Koichi Hirose). Seriously I cannot stand the second guy he is so whiny and his voice is very high-pitched. Polnareff was hot headed but he was not whiny.
3. Even the intro music is way less masculine. wtf is this? Crazy funky bizarre town?
4. Plot moves slowly with no clear overarching goal. This is one of the biggest reason that kept me away from animes. I cannot tell whether some of these episodes are filler or not because they seriously feel like such.
5. Tropes are back!
   Spoiler

   Even with love affairs! Most villains so far are high school students. And many have been "converted" or not even vile at all. Episodes revolves around everyday high school life instead of an adventure.
6. Powers are meh.
   Spoiler

   Main protagonist is a healer? His side kick has a Metapod which evolves? The villains' powers are also more mundane and less threatening. Most don't have the intent to kill so the stake is a lot less here.

Overall it feels like a significant downgrade in all aspects from stardust crusaders for me. My question is, does it get better from here? Is it worth watching if I have to drag through the first 13 episodes?

 

[RecRoulette]

Yes it will. A major character will show up eventually and stuff gets a lot better.

I personally am not fond of Part 4 as a whole (compared to other arcs) but it has some of the best stuff in the whole series, it is definitely worth sticking with.

 

[wwm0nkey]

I don't understand the complaint about powers at all, this is the part where Araki got creative with Stands and Killer Queen is a fucking deadly stand, but you haven't got to that part just yet

Sounds like you'll like part 5 though

 

[Killer Queen]

It gets a lot better, but it does take quite a while to get on with it. It's not like Stardust Crusaders but a lot of the powers start to get used in more interesting ways, its more Slice of Life and monster of the week than adventure like SDC was.

I hated Koichi too and thought Okuyasu was a moron. But the characters to get development and the show really starts to pick up in the later half.

Part 5 you'll probably enjoy more once that gets animated though, as it takes the really weird stands from the end of DiU and uses it as a jumping off point to create more stands of that weird level and its an adventure again like SDC.

But you might as well finish DiU since you already started it and should watch it if you're going to continue the series, and it does get a lot better and pick up. Its one of those things that has a lot of subtle foreshadowing and is a lot better overall once you've completed it.

 

[HStallion]

It gets more bizarre.

 

[kobu]

I grew to really like every character in part 4 so I say stick with it.

 

[Puck Beaverton]

your complaints are bizarre

 

[NinjaCoachZ]

What's funny is I find Stardust Crusaders kind of boring for the reasons you like it. I just feel like it's too no-frills monster-of-the-week and while there's plenty of fun moments, it's honestly a bit repetitive to me and probably even worse about the whole filler angle. Most of the villains-of-the-week and side excursions can be cut without changing too much and the character writing is a bit thin (as much as I like Kakyoin and Polnareff).

Anyway Diamond is Unbreakable is a lot more comedic, character-focused and slice-of-life but Kira is great for SC fans and you really get attached to the characters. I love how much personality there is to everything, and the individual episodes at least have something interesting to remember about them compared to SC's throwaway stand users of the week.

The "masculinity" thing is kind of a weird hangup but the character designs generally skew a lot more slender and less rugged from DIU onward. But Araki's art has honestly always had a very "fashion model" influence to it. It's just that eventually he ditches the Fist of the North Star knockoff angle.

 

[Sou Da]

Part 4 is a lot better than Part 3 in general.

"less masculine"

Nevermind, just stop watching JoJo.

 

[SigmasonicX]

If by "less masculine", you're referring to the fact that the characters are no longer as muscular, then that's a permanent change in Araki's art style.

There's no denying that Part 4 is less focused on its overall plot than the previous parts, but it does eventually introduce a main villain that's widely considered one of the best of all of JJBA. Still, viewing episodes as being "filler" or not is the wrong way to look at it. The point is to show day to day encounters in this small town.

 

[LotusHD]

You'll come to enjoy Part 4. Keep watching.

 

[RandomExpletive]

I loved part 3 when I watched it. Part 4 started slow for me as well, but it grew on me QUICKLY

I love me some Dio, but Kira is fucking GREAT as a villain.


I'd say stick with it, you never know when you'll turn around on it

 

[Moaradin]

Part 4 is better than Part 3 in every way though

 

[HStallion]

OP sounds like he would love HxH right up until the Chimera Ant arc

 

[Mr.Sumal]

Second half of DiU is superb

 

[Killer Queen]

Also warning: The male characters in this series only get more and more feminine from here on out, so if that's a major complaint then it's probably time to stop.

 

[BenjiGAF]

I started reading through all of the series back in college, and I actually put it down for about a year because I was so tired of what i referred to as "all the Scooby-Doo bullshit" when discussing it with friends. Several of your grievances with the show mirror my own issues with the manga...but I'm glad I decided to return and see it through. Fantastic conclusion to the arc. Worth sticking around for imo.

 

[HStallion]

Also warning: The male characters in this series only get more and more feminine from here on out, so if that's a major complaint then it's probably time to stop.

Or start watching Fist of the North Star.

 

[Sorcerer Supreme]

Also warning: The male characters in this series only get more and more feminine from here on out, so if that's a major complaint then it's probably time to stop.

you mean more manly

 

[Capella]

I'm still making my way through Part 4 but from what I know of the other parts, if the art style change and characters being less masculine looking bothers you, it's not going to change in the others.

 

[D-Man]

Keep watching. You have yet to reach the "meat" of DiU's plot and it is magnificent.

Also, expect to never see buff dudes in this series ever again. ESPECIALLY with Part 5.

 

[Matsukaze]

[*]The first thing I noticed was the art style change. It is less detailed and more "funky"? Characters are less masculine.

If this really matters to you, then this is the part where you get off the ride. Otherwise, you're gonna have to embrace how fabulous JoJo gets. One of Araki's most distinct traits as a writer has been his presentation of male characters, both heroes and villains, as being atypical when it comes to gender norms.

Otherwise, I'd say stick with it, cuz Part 4 is much better than Part 3.

 

[chillybright]

If by "less masculine", you're referring to the fact that the characters are no longer as muscular, then that's a permanent change in Araki's art style.

There's no denying that Part 4 is less focused on its overall plot than the previous parts, but it does eventually introduce a main villain that's widely considered one of the best of all of JJBA. Still, viewing episodes as being "filler" or not is the wrong way to look at it. The point is to show day to day encounters in this small town.

Yeah I meant the character design. Tall and full of muscles like Fist of the Northern Star. The combat felt more impactful and old school as a result for me.

OP sounds like he would love HxH right up until the Chimera Ant arc

You are absolutely correct.

Also loved Yu Yu Hakusho.

 

[Killer Queen]

you mean more manly

I mean, if OP's definition of manly is super tall absurdly muscular men, then no. Especially since it starts with Giorno and he's of super average build.

 

[wwm0nkey]

Yeah I meant the character design. Tall and full of muscles like Fist of the Northern Star. The combat felt more impactful and old school as a result for me.

Well the mucesles are gone from here on out so if that really matters to you then switch trains now.

 

[Slick Butter]

Give it just a couple more episodes and from there it will get better and better. I didn't really like DiU a ton at first, though I did appreciate the new style a lot. I really did like it from episode ~15 (I think) onward. Koichi is whiny but he continues to mature throughout Part 4.
I never did like Part 3 very much, however, and part of why I didn't like Part 4 initially was because it seemed to be more of Part 3 is some ways (e.g. the Monster (Stand user) of-the-Week style, I think it's the worst part so far).
Characters do get less buff as the series goes on, but honestly I love Araki's current artstyle (and the imitation of the style in the anime) more than I like the Jojo series itself.

The Italian food episode annoyed me in Part 4, but it helps to think about it as a joke about Part 3's constant "ok let's relax in this new place OH NO IT'S AN ENEMY STAND." It was kind of a fun episode otherwise but nothing happens really.

 

[SENPAIatLARGE]

One of the future protagonist's is a woman, so if you need over the top machoness, it's time to leave.
If you do go, you'll miss out on one of the best written villains' in anime/ manga, some of the most creative fights and fantastic music and presentation.

 

[Maximo]

Haha dam was about to post a LTTP thread about JoJo binged watched it this whole week, only just up to DIU but mean Stardust was my least favorite so far ,just a monster of the week that grew more repetitive bringing back a amazing short lived villain only him to do absolutely fuck all nothing till the end having lost most of his personality from the first season.

 

[chillybright]

If this really matters to you, then this is the part where you get off the ride. Otherwise, you're gonna have to embrace how fabulous JoJo gets. One of Araki's most distinct traits as a writer has been his presentation of male characters, both heroes and villains, as being atypical when it comes to gender norms.

Otherwise, I'd say stick with it, cuz Part 4 is much better than Part 3.

I mean, if OP's definition of manly is super tall absurdly muscular men, then no. Especially since it starts with Giorno and he's of super average build.

Well the mucesles are gone from here on out so if that really matters to you then switch trains now.

I see.

The missing muscles is not a deal breaker for me, but the switch in character build was the first thing I noticed when starting DIU and it keeps bugging me, that's all. I enjoyed some other shonen mangas with average build perfectly fine.

 

[Frozenprince]

You gotta understand this came out in 1995, the change in art style is what the series looks like going forward, because that's how Araki's art style changed over the years.

Honestly if you're not liking DIU, JoJo just isn't for you, the future parts just get weirder.

 

[wwm0nkey]

I see.

The missing muscles is not a deal breaker for me, but the switch in character build was the first thing I noticed when starting DIU and it keeps bugging me, that's all. I enjoyed some other shonen mangas with average build perfectly fine.

If you liked SDC you'll like the last half of DiU and you'll probably love part 5

 

[HeartlessNobody213]

Stick with it. I was the same as you but I eventually grew to really enjoy it after watching the second half. If you're around episode 13 then episode 21 is when things take off.

 

[Lulubop]

Only read the manga, but I hated DIU. Still much better than part 5.

 

[JadedWriter]

All of DiU is superb

ftfy

I've tried answering enough shit like this in the main DiU thread.

 

[BinaryPork2737]

Most characters are exaggeratedly masculine which is a breath of fresh air in anime. (No more boy band style.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=As9ScybYxKY

chillybright confirmed to be Boingo's gaf account.

 

[Killer Queen]

I see.

The missing muscles is not a deal breaker for me, but the switch in character build was the first thing I noticed when starting DIU and it keeps bugging me, that's all. I enjoyed some other shonen mangas with average build perfectly fine.

Honestly, you'll probably come out of this loving DiU, especially if you appreciate good story telling and subtleties so just keep going, because the whole thing wraps around super nicely and if not, Part 5 will be right up your alley, character designs aside.

 

[SENPAIatLARGE]

You couldn't have the increasingly diverse cast of heroes and villains' with interesting powers and abilities if everyone was a buff dude. Araki knew he wrote himself into a corner with part 2, and knew he just couldn't make stronger enemies for the heroes to fight. Stands are based on mental, not physical power

 

[wwm0nkey]

Only read the manga, but I hated DIU. Still much better than part 5.

Did you read the really bad translation? Re-read the new one, made things so much better

 

[PK Gaming]

1) The first thing I noticed was the art style change. It is less detailed and more "funky"? Characters are less masculine.

The art direction and animation is MUCH better than SC's. The transitions from the first episode alone put the entirety of SC to shame.

2)There are idiotic main character (Okuyasu Nijimura) and whiny helpless main character (Koichi Hirose). Seriously I cannot stand the second guy he is so whiny and his voice is very high-pitched. Polnareff was hot headed but he was not whiny.

Just keep watching. Koichi steps up in a big way.

3)Even the intro music is way less masculine. wtf is this? Crazy funky bizarre town?

You... you're not one of those "MANLINESS IS GOD" type of people, aren't you?

4) Plot moves slowly with no clear overarching goal. This is one of the biggest reason that kept me away from animes. I cannot tell whether some of these episodes are filler or not because they seriously feel like such.

I can understand your concerns about it feeling directionless, but it becomes much more focused when the main antagonist appears. Just stick with it a little longer.

Tropes are back! Even with love affairs! Most villains so far are high school students. And many have been "converted" or not even vile at all. Episodes revolves around everyday high school life instead of an adventure.

???

JoJo is pretty tropey, but it always has an unusual twist on them. That hasn't changed from SC.

6) Powers are meh. Main protagonist is a healer? His side kick has a Metapod which evolves? The villains' powers are also more mundane and less threatening. Most don't have the intent to kill so the stake is a lot less here.

I'm sorry, WHAT. Josuke's powers are among the most interesting in the series; reducing it to just healing totally undermines the cool shit he's already done with it (and he hasn't even scratched the surface). Dude unquestionably has a better stand than Jotaro, which was pretty basic for 98% of SC.

As for the bolded... Again, keep watching!

 

[Atom Heart Mother]

[*]Even the intro music is way less masculine. wtf is this? Crazy funky bizarre town?

This is seriously the #1 pet peeve I have with JoJo anime watchers. Part 4 represents a funky-pop style of music for its part due to having a younger protag. in a high school setting in the 1990s. It's suppose to be funky and colorful. JoJo isn't about OVERLY buff masculine figures. Only the first 3 parts were like that due to his drawing style and then it gradually gets more feminine -- which is awesome. It's more unique.

I watched Stardust Crusaders and found it such a boring ride. The first ~26 episodes except for some were legitimately boring and too drawn out. The pacing in SDC was absolute garbage and the pacing in DiU is VERY well done. Avdol did absolutely nothing except punch Polarneff so Vanilla Ice wouldn't get him. Kakyoin was so underused he was benched until he came back and was only used to figure out Dio's stand. Joseph was nerfed and was barely like his part 2 self (I don't want him to be a OP Hamon user, but it could've done better). Iggy was Iggy was ok. Polarneff was alot of fun to follow, I'll admit. But Jotaro man. He was just so boring. Every fight ended the same with him just punching the guy alot and bailing out everyone's asses. His best fight was D'arby #1 because he used his stoicness to his advantage. That was smart.

The final fight of SDC was just such an ass pull. It only ended because Jotaro was "so mad" that he could defeat Dio..like what the fuck? That's so lame. Maybe if I read it I would've loved it, but in animated form it was just so lame. I read DiU right after SDC ending and found it such a nice change of pace.

Part 4's town setting and recurring bad guys into good guys was such a welcoming change. I liked the everyday life aspect of it, made the characters feel more real and have an actual day ahead of them. I agree Kira could've been done A LOT sooner, but the anime fixes this problem the best it could be, for example showing him with the very first second of the season. I thought every fight was SDC +1 and just executed very well. Josuke's healing ability is used super creatively instead of Star Platinum "me so strong I punch". The whole cast is different and has a lot of funny interaction. Kira is also by far the best Jojo villain if we're comparing anime only. Dio 1 was cool, Kars was boring, Dio 3 did shit until the last fight. Kira had a constant presence. He was written extremely well and you wanted to see him more. Every panel with him was a treat.

Just stick with DiU. It isn't meant to be viewed as a GRAND EPIC ADVENTURE, but a nice, relaxed look into a town with stand users. Remember, Morioh is a character of it self in DiU. Don't bother with Jojo if you want more "epic meme manliness" . It ends in Part 3, but in exchange you get the rest of Jojo which is extremely good and much, much better than the last 3 parts.

 

[massoluk]

Part 3 Stand Battle is Jojo showing up and punching the bad guy
Part 4 Stand Battle is where the author gets good on the premise of Stands

 

[hosannainexcelsis]

If by "less masculine", you're referring to the fact that the characters are no longer as muscular, then that's a permanent change in Araki's art style.

Also, it's significant that Diamond is Unbreakable's anime character designs are handled by a woman, Terumi Nishii. She has a softer style than the character designers of the previous Jojo TV seasons - see also her work on Penguindrum.

 

[Goodstyle]

Part 4 gets more focused the second the villain's arc begins. Power through, because this character is the best Jojo villain period.

 

[Atom Heart Mother]

Also, it's significant that Diamond is Unbreakable's anime character designs are handled by a woman, Terumi Nishii. She has a softer style than the character designers of the previous Jojo TV seasons - see also her work on Penguindrum.

Her character designs are well really done and translate well from the manga. Only one I have a problem with his KQ's red eyes.

 

[Lulubop]

Did you read the really bad translation? Re-read the new one, made things so much better

Yes, but I'm not a fan of Jojo's format in general.

 

[chillybright]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=As9ScybYxKY

chillybright confirmed to be Boingo's gaf account.

Plz no. Most useless stand period.

You couldn't have the increasingly diverse cast of heroes and villains' with interesting powers and abilities if everyone was a buff dude. Araki knew he wrote himself into a corner with part 2, and knew he just couldn't make stronger enemies for the heroes to fight. Stands are based on mental, not physical power

good point.

You... you're not one of those "MANLINESS IS GOD" type of people, aren't you?

No. It's just buffed dudes and fist actions are rare in anime for long, which was fresh for me. Don't like or dislike it. Just the contrast between SDC and DIU is bizarre for me.

 

[Frozenprince]

If y'all hate Scooby Doo with punch ghosts we can't be friends.

 

[Imperfected]

The first thing I noticed was the art style change. It is less detailed and more "funky"? Characters are less masculine.

That's not really going to change. To be honest, there's only one or two character designs from the arc I like, and one of them actually gets jettisoned twice over for honestly worse versions.

That said, I do consider the arc worth watching for basically two characters, one of whom you haven't been introduced to yet.

There are

Spoiler

idiotic main character (Okuyasu Nijimura) and whiny helpless main character (Koichi Hirose)

. Seriously I cannot stand the second guy he is so whiny and his voice is very high-pitched. Polnareff was hot headed but he was not whiny.

I'm not a huge fan of the supporting cast, either, and frankly it's likely to get worse for you before it gets better, though there might be some nice guilty pleasure once the plot actually kicks off because of that.

The good news is most of the supporting cast get relegated to full-on supporting/filler roles as things go on. The bad news is, well... there is actually quite a bit of filler.

Even the intro music is way less masculine. wtf is this? Crazy funky bizarre town?

I don't know about "more masculine", but the intros do get better, at least in my opinion. I hated Crazy Noisy Bizarre Town, but Chase and Breakdown are both better, particularly visually. I know some people like it, but compared to the visual richness and metaphor in the previous opening songs I personally considered CNBT to be a barren wasteland of merit and visually tacky. Though, Chase while visually better is pretty divisive in terms of the actual audio (it's a little "standard shonen" for a lot of people). I think Breakdown is almost universally loved, though?

Plot moves slowly with no clear overarching goal. This is one of the biggest reason that kept me away from animes. I cannot tell whether some of these episodes are filler or not because they seriously feel like such.

The arc doesn't find a plot until the halfway point, and sadly while it initially gives the promise of pursuing that plot at a breakneck pace, it does veer off into some extremely filler-y (and in my opinion, just plain awful) side-stories even once the actual antagonist and central conflict are introduced.

That said, everything directly relating to that central conflict I'm a big fan of. I'm not sure I can actually say with a straight face that you need to have watched that much of the first half of the arc to appreciate the second half, though. I honestly think 90% of the episodes before the antagonist is introduced are probably skippable.

Tropes are back!

Spoiler

Even with love affairs! Most villains so far are high school students. And many have been "converted" or not even vile at all. Episodes revolves around everyday high school life instead of an adventure.

Spoiler

They get a real villain. There's still a lot of doofy high school characters who for some reason we're supposed to believe aren't actually that bad despite immediately being willing to try and murder people they've never met before because some asshole they don't know told them it'd be rad, but most of them are just worthless filler anyway.

Powers are meh.

Spoiler

Main protagonist is a healer?

His side kick has a Metapod which evolves? The villains' powers are also more mundane and less threatening. Most don't have the intent to kill so the stake is a lot less here.

The powers get appropriately more bizarre. The boring characters are mostly front-loaded, and for better or worse (it's a mixed bag) everyone in the second half of the arc has some weird-ass Stand abilities.

Overall it feels like a significant downgrade in all aspects from stardust crusaders for me. My question is, does it get better from here? Is it worth watching if I have to drag through the first 13 episodes?

You're through the worst of it, honestly. The best advice I can give is to keep watching, but maybe ask someone you trust for a list of episodes that feature "villain of the week" stooges that you can just skip. They pretty badly mar an otherwise excellent second half of the arc.

 

[Killer Queen]

If y'all hate Scooby Doo with punch ghosts we can't be friends.

"BUT LIKE, OKUYASU THATS NO STAND, ITS A GHOST!"

 

[EmCeeGramr]

Araki deliberately began to make Stands more unique and less obviously threatening or overpowered because

A) He wanted to avoid the standard "power curve" that existed in other shonen manga, where there was always a clearly stronger opponent (This happened in JoJo's itself with Parts 1 and 2... once you have an immortal being who has to be launched into space and frozen to stop, where do you go?)

B) It makes Stand battles more interesting when it's more about figuring out the specific rules of the Stand and how manipulate the battle to defeat it. It's an interesting twist in JoJo that the protagonists almost always have powers that, if they can get a direct hit in, would easily overpower the bad guys... but the opponents always have a new and unexpected ability that can take the heroes off guard.

C) Part 4 isn't about saving the world or defeating a nefarious mastermind (well, the second half sorta is, but even then he's a villain whose motivations and actions are meant to be a contrast to the megalomaniac DIO of the previous part). The opponents aren't hired assassins or devoted minions; they're regular people who got superpowers one day. Stands are meant to be a projection of your own soul and psyche; having Stands be less simplistically combat-focused and more unique but flawed reflects back on the bad guys and makes them more human. Araki himself mentioned this when he addressed the fact that some readers thought the villains and their Stands weren't "threatening" enough: showing villains' faults and weaknesses makes them more endearing and memorable.