Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
lol, it's still dropping. $483k now.
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Red Ash The Kalkanon Incident (PS4/XB1) development to proceed with Fuze Etertainme
- Thread starter Busaiku
- Start date
rockman zx
Member
orthodoxy1095
Banned
If anything, it's reassuring to know that people aren't complete sheep. They see through the problems.
exmachina64
Banned
You're not wrong that having a polished prototype will help their crowdfunding campaign greatly, but the way that you've written implies that they've only worked on the prototype for a week.
MrCunningham
Member
I wonder if the remaining days will be all in negative numbers.
I haven't really been following this kickstarter at all, people have been pulling out in large numbers? Oh man...
orthodoxy1095
Banned
That's not what what I was trying to imply at all. I was trying to say that the Indivisible crowdfunding hasn't even started, and look at what they've already done. What they've done and shown before their campaign even started has already begin to look more impressive than what Red Ash has managed to do over an entire month. It's yet another example in being properly prepared for a campaign, something Inafune should learn from.
HP_Wuvcraft
Banned
I love how shit like this happens, and yet my friends struggle to make even $19k on their comic book campaigns.
rockman zx
Member
Some people pulled out their money now and then but it was never like yesterday or today, straight negative numbers.
In the other hand, the anime....
Funding: $113,578 of $150,000
That's fine but like......just say that. I think most agree that having a good prototype at the start would have been beneficial but comparing two products of coding with wildly different amounts of time and money put into them isn't really helpful especially when you're often getting posts of like "Bingo" and "thereitis.gif". Plus, lets be a bit more honest here - the issue here isn't really the prototype by itself. Many kickstarters have and in the future will be wildly successful without a prototype. The issue is people feeling burned by MN9 regardless if those feelings are justified or not and thus demanding a prototype in this scenario avoid another similar scenario. If Comcept were more on the ball they would have been appropriately prepared for this but also extra scrutiny was placed on this project due to "perceived" issues from another one.
You say "already" as if the Indivisible prototype began development at exactly the same time as the Red Ash prototype even though we know it's been in the works for a lot longer.
"They should have prepared a prototype for the launch of the campaign!" is a different issue and I don't disagree with that statement, but I also don't think it's fair to compare prototypes that were made under different circumstances with different schedules.
Exactly, and what I find most bewildering is that their AP is surely aware of these issues, real or perceived, but he seems surprised and/or confused by a lot of the responses to the Red Ash campaign and hasn't done much of anything to mitigate peoples' concerns.
I'm not suggesting he's solely responsible for the campaign floundering and I accept that he's not running point on the entire campaign and that he has people to answer to, but at the same time, he's the western liaison and I wonder if he's even parsing peoples' complaints, let alone communicating them internally.
To be fair, Lab Zero has some money from 505 Games to make that prototype (though they were smart enough to actually try to negotiate for that setup). They are also one of the hardest working and most transparent indie developers I know so a lot of other indie operations look bad next to them
So again, yeah, there's no question that a lot more pre-planning should have gone into the Red Ash campaign to avoid the issues that have befallen it. However, being that we are in the preset and not the past where you can fix those things, I really don't think the Red Ash demo and like Yooka Laylee demo are really worth comparing.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Except that's totally not what I'm saying, and that's your defense force reading into my words. I understand the difference in the timeframes here. That's really the entire point. Comcept ran a shit campaign and topped it off with a shit prototype. Other big campaigns have seemingly put both more time and effort into their campaign preparations.
You're right, because in the end, one was impressive and the other will haunt them forever.
I wonder if this is how Legends 3 ended.
"Boss, I want to develop a prototype of a sequel of an old game we had"
"Alright."
[3 months later]
"Here, look, I made a thing. We're gonna release a demo of it soon."
"But where's the marketing plan?"
"...I need 4 mil to finish the full game!"
"Bye."
"Boss, I want to develop a prototype of a sequel of an old game we had"
"Alright."
[3 months later]
"Here, look, I made a thing. We're gonna release a demo of it soon."
"But where's the marketing plan?"
"...I need 4 mil to finish the full game!"
"Bye."
Fine Ham Abounds
Member
That sounds more like what happened to Kojima
RichiRamjag
Member
Dude, you just got me kicked out bed as I couldn't stop laughing.
exmachina64
Banned
We're in complete agreement.
Harkins1721
Banned
Im glad its being funded. Just wish they handled it better.
zeopower6
Member
Maybe the last meeting for MML3 had Inafune bring in a can kicking animation before the higher-ups were like... "We're done here, cancel the project" lol~
Sure, but the reason Playtonic, Lab Zero, etc are able to provide advanced prototypes upfront is because they have external partners willing to fund these things; Comcept didn't, and there were other factors like the availability of Hyde and the anime studio that forced them to work to a certain timetable (or so they claim).
This campaign has been a complete shitshow for reasons totally independent of budget, but in this instance I'm only speaking about the objective quality of the prototype they delivered based on how long they spent working on it, and in that respect I think it's... adequate. Not good, and certainly not enough to change peoples' minds about the state of the project, but I think it accurately reflects the amount of time that went into it, and in that respect I don't think it's helpful to make comparisons to builds/footage that are clearly at a more advance state.
The argument about whether they should have had something prepared much earlier isn't even an argument: it's obvious that they should have and that the people running the campaign have failed to understand that point and/or impress it upon the people calling the shots.
Seems like most Kickstarters including well known japanese developers, designers and/or producers start in the design phase, without a vertical slice or prototype of the game. Mighty No. 9, Shenmue III, Bloodstained, Unsong Story, Red Ash now... I also believe that a lot of people got burned on Mighty No. 9 and are rather conservative about this game.
It seems like your friend wasn't able to pull in half of the backers from the first volume until now. So they are either pushing it at the end, or a lot of people didn't like what they got with the first volume to consider funding for the second one.
It seems like your friend wasn't able to pull in half of the backers from the first volume until now. So they are either pushing it at the end, or a lot of people didn't like what they got with the first volume to consider funding for the second one.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
I mean, they didn't show a huge amount of stuff, but Shenmue had some rough test footage and Bloodstained had a working prototype that they showed off-camera by the end of the Kickstarter.
I have to wonder if doing something off-camera like that would have been a better idea.
TFRazorsaw
Banned
Part of what sired me on backing Red Ash well before the kickstarter was mishandled was... well. Inafune is as much a reason for Legends 3 being cancelled as Capcom is.
Let's look at the facts. He himself stated the Legends series put Capcom "in the red" in regards to its production in an interview with Hitoshi Ariga for the Megamix volumes. That means that Capcom lost money. Legends 3 was purely a passion project, one Inafune had to fight for years to make, and...
Well, I'm just going to come out and say it. The whole Legends 3 thing was handled poorly from start to finish. It starts with the announcement that the GAME IS TOTALLY BEING MADE YEAH, and... wait, no, it relies on sales of the prototype version. Okay. But then Inafune decides he has to be a Maverick and quits before the prototype version comes out.
Whether you think he was justified in leaving or not, whether you think he was part of the problem at Capcom or the lone bastion of quality or not, you have to stop and ask yourself...
What did he THINK was going to happen?
That's why I side-eyed this whole "Inafune is bringing Legends back!" from the start. How blatantly uninspired it is, how designed it is to play on nostalgia to the point it feels more like it was structured to play off of people's emotions and nostalgia rather than creativity, how badly the kickstarter was ran, and now, getting funding from what looks like a highly dubious company in lieu of kickstarter failure was just icing on the jivey cake.
Let's look at the facts. He himself stated the Legends series put Capcom "in the red" in regards to its production in an interview with Hitoshi Ariga for the Megamix volumes. That means that Capcom lost money. Legends 3 was purely a passion project, one Inafune had to fight for years to make, and...
Well, I'm just going to come out and say it. The whole Legends 3 thing was handled poorly from start to finish. It starts with the announcement that the GAME IS TOTALLY BEING MADE YEAH, and... wait, no, it relies on sales of the prototype version. Okay. But then Inafune decides he has to be a Maverick and quits before the prototype version comes out.
Whether you think he was justified in leaving or not, whether you think he was part of the problem at Capcom or the lone bastion of quality or not, you have to stop and ask yourself...
What did he THINK was going to happen?
That's why I side-eyed this whole "Inafune is bringing Legends back!" from the start. How blatantly uninspired it is, how designed it is to play on nostalgia to the point it feels more like it was structured to play off of people's emotions and nostalgia rather than creativity, how badly the kickstarter was ran, and now, getting funding from what looks like a highly dubious company in lieu of kickstarter failure was just icing on the jivey cake.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
How in the hell is this allowed.
I love that company's website.
"Oh yeah, our CEO is great! He tells such great jokes!" I wonder if the CEO wrote that himself.
Oh wow!
How in the hell is this allowed.
Edit: Oh, re-looking at it, they are saying if they hit $800,000 THEN they're going to make those. OK thats less...weird, but also is kind of like funding nothing.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
It's a really weird way of funding things...like what are we supposed to think, "Oh boy, yay?!"
Imagine a fully finished game like dragon age coming to kickstarter and asking for money to make dlc quests and an extra party member. Now this is that.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
I mean given that it's not an AAA studio like a BioWare/EA game would be, so I guess in theory, I don't mind the idea of an indie/small title going back to the crowdfunding pool to have fans add more content...not my favorite idea, but it's not outlandish.
But the way this has been done has been a total joke.
Alex_Mexico
Member
In other slightly more positive news: the Red Ash anime KS is turning out to be like the ignored little brother that could. At $145,800 and change it is only lacking a little over $4,000 with 9 hours to go to get funded.
Unless there's a troll pledge that might bail in the last second I see this KS getting funded. And for that I'm happy.
Unless there's a troll pledge that might bail in the last second I see this KS getting funded. And for that I'm happy.