CyberPanda
Banned
True, but the ‘teraplots’.
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Reddit Anaconda dev kit (Dante) leak.
- Thread starter CyberPanda
- Start date
Codes 208
Member
It would make sense. It would probably easier to have a architecture to read ps3 games than trying to powerhouse through it.
SonGoku
Member
Probably a typo, woulnt look too much into itTrue, but the ‘teraplots’.
DynamiteCop!
Banned
This is the dumbest thing I've ever read. That much HBM2 would cost $450 alone, HBM3 though? I can't even put a number on that...
PS5 Secret Sauce - Pastebin.com
Pastebin.com is the number one paste tool since 2002. Pastebin is a website where you can store text online for a set period of time.pastebin.com
Garbage.
CyberPanda
Banned
Yea, but it made me chuckle.
Braldryr
Banned
Funny thing is that I predicted that Xbox Infinite is a new name for the next Xbox and one of those Pastebins leaks actually calls it Xbox Infinite (Anaconda) and Xbox Infinite Value (Lockhart) Honestly Infinite makes the most sense naming wise for the next xbox - reason being that you have Project xCloud and access to basically infinite game library spanning across OG Xbox, 360, Xbox One, and of course the new gen and beyond that. You also have access to all of your games on any device as well. It also lines up with Halo Infinite as well. This is just my crazy speculation though...
That pastebin sounds very believable with the exception of the SSD part...
That pastebin sounds very believable with the exception of the SSD part...
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SonGoku
Member
Dude HBM3 is expected to release a cheaper version with no interposer and binned slower chips.
DynamiteCop!
Banned
Sure it is... Keep dreaming. You people are lunatics.
The mental gymnastics out to make these consoles super computers is a psychosis and you're trying to take us all along for the ride.
SonGoku
Member
Not saying its real but i wouldn't outright dismiss it as crazy either.
DynamiteCop!
Banned
I'm going to outright dismiss it, thanks.
SonGoku
Member
HBM3: Cheaper, up to 64GB on-package, and terabytes-per-second bandwidth
Plus, Samsung unveils GDDR6 and "low cost" HBM technologies.
arstechnica.com
Interesting read if anything
Stuart360
Member
Yeah iike the 'better than 1080ti/2080' performance. I mean yeah on paper they might be, but when the consoles are released and we get consoles vs 1080ti/2080 vids, well it will be funny.
SonGoku
Member
idk about better than but going by navis reveal i could definitely see it being on the same ballpark
1.25x IPC claim now withstanding, all it would take is a 12TF Navi gpu.
Stuart360
Member
lol, we will see.
DynamiteCop!
Banned
The peak either of these systems will reach is Vega 64 level performance. My personal expectation is the PS5 will be leaning more towards 56 and the Xbox whatever will be leaning closer to the 64.
SonGoku
Member
Vega 64 is 12.7TF lol
Navi at 12TF would be roughly on par with a RTX2080
All it would take to get that is 56CUs at 1680MHz
DynamiteCop!
Banned
That's an assumption based upon AMD's claims, I would expect more grounded real world extrapolation. Also I'm not talking about Teraflops, I'm talking about raw rendering capability.
SonGoku
Member
Im being conservative to take into account that 12*1.25= 15TF worth of vega floating point (actually better than rtx2080/Radeon7)
Navi is a full arch change that has improved upon several fronts, we'll see more arch details come june.
DynamiteCop!
Banned
I don't care about Navi and preliminary mumbo jumbo from conferences that never pans out. While what AMD, Nvidia and Intel always say is technically true they selectively choose their battles with specific render loads and programs to assert those claims.
The point is in terms of practical compute performance I'm expecting the rendering throughput of a Vega 64 at peak and at a low Vega 56, whatever Navi is I am expecting the former in terms of performance from these systems and nothing more.
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Stuart360
Member
But the consoles will probably get some variant of these cards, i mean all these AMD conferences are about PC cards right?, the consle version could be some cut down variant.
Imo the consoles will probably be in the 11-12 AMD tf range, and about 9-10 Nvidia TF. Forget the 1.25x efficiancy seller talk.
DynamiteCop!
Banned
They always are some cut down and modified variant, these people are talking about cards running at 1650+ Mhz with 250+ TDP's and shit like that's a consoles reality.
These systems will probably have a peak of 200w at a system level.
SonGoku
Member
Prepare to be blown away then, you are basically expecting Navi to be a carbon copy of Vega
Which cards? Consoles this gen used their own custom designs not cut down cards, the X in fact was beefed up compared to the rx580.
You need to keep in mind that on a 350mm2 APU there is room to spare for a 64CU GPU, it doesn't make sense to use less than 56CUs given the silicon budget.
12 Navi would match RTX2080
and rtx2080 is 10TF you are agreeing with me lol
Please understand Navi RDNA is different from GCN, Navi was designed around gaming and high clocks. A 56CU card at 1680MHz next year will probably have a tdp lower than 150W.
You are free to make up your mind as you will, im just laying out all the available info.
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DynamiteCop!
Banned
That's not at all what I am saying, what I AM saying is whatever is in these consoles expect the performance profile of a Vega 56 to 64.
It's beefed up and then cut down in some other regards. Both of its fill rates are lower than the 580 and it's clocked considerably lower.
I understand that you're biting off more than you can chew and have sucked down the AMD Koolaid like it's going out of style. Is RDNA a new architecture? Sure, but is it a NEW architecture? Can it go beyond the 64 CU limitation? Well that remains to be seen, as do AMD's claims which mind you never pan out to the degree as they are relayed to the customer.
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Stuart360
Member
9-10 Nvidia TF would be slightly below 2080. And i'm not talking purely TF, the 2080 will out perform the consoles at 10tf even if the consoles end up 12tf. Like i said, i;'m not getting into all this seller talk that AMD are saying, real world performence of the consoles will be below a 2080, the 'next gen consoles vs 2080' vids will show that after launch.
SonGoku
Member
Except you are lol, you could get Vega64 perf on consoles by shrinking to 7nm.
HW wise its not cut down, it improves in every area.
Its clocked lower because it hits a perf/watt sweet spot with more CUs clocked lower.
Its not about sucking kool aid, its about working with all available info instead of making ignorant remarks based on unfounded assumptions.
Keep in mind 12TF Navi would equal 15TF VEGA there's more than enough headroom for margin of error.
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Stuart360
Member
If the 1.25x talk is anything other than seller talk, which it isnt. Sure it may be true in conttolled benchmarks, but when it comes to game performance, i doubt it.
Like i said, the comparison vids made when the consoles release will prove it.
DynamiteCop!
Banned
No I am not, you are just being an AMD fanboy right now and have trouble reading. What is hard to understand in the statement of "expect the performance profile of a Vega 56 to 64"? It's self-evident, it's self-explanatory.
It improves in every area except its fill rates likely as a result of its lower clock speeds out of necessity to curb heat and power consumption, not because of some "sweet spot", it's a packaging limitation.
Empirically speaking it is sucking down Koolaid because you're ignoring the last decade of AMD speak that never pans out to the degree in which it is claimed and just running with it. It's the same song and dance with you people over, and over, and over again.
SonGoku
Member
Its across 30 games....
But let's say the 15TF is exaggerated, let's bring it down to 14TF that still puts it on 2080 ballpark even if it fall a little behind (~10%)
Another real possibility is consoles hitting close to 13TF
My personal estimates are anything between 12-13TFs
Sure thing.
SonGoku
Member
Dude chill no need to get overtly exited or name calling, if you cant handle a convo exchange take a breather and come back with a fresh mind.
and i explained to you how that's underselling Navi, you could get Vega 56 to 64 performance on consoles by shrinking Vega 10 to 7nm alone
580 is actually 6.175TF vs 6TF the fill rate advantage come from that, its a tiny 5.3GB/s gap
The X has a bandwidth and TMU advantage
Its a tiny compromise in exchange for massively better perf/watt. 150W vs 185W
When GCN was introduced it was a game changer and very competitive, you are downplaying the significance of a post GCN arch.
DynamiteCop!
Banned
You can't handle the conversation because you're nauseatingly not understanding the simplest of things being said to you and siding with what AMD is directly spitting to you which is a historically dumb thing to do.
It's not underselling Navi because it's not being used as any kind of comparative to Navi, what I am saying to you for the umpteenth time and in the most rudimentary of fashion humanly possible is as follows. Whatever Navi derivative that is in these console I expect to perform in the range of throughput that is akin to and between the Vega 56 and 64.
In terms of bandwidth the X has an on paper bandwidth advantage, not real world, also its bus is being shared with the CPU so that's cutting into the memory pipeline as well.
"285 GB/s peak in the lab for mem bandwidth" -Hot Chips
When GCN was introduced it was kind of competitive, Nvidia was still carrying the torch and even with AMD pushing out the 7970 Ghz Edition it was a short lived parallel that hasn't been seen since.
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Dontero
Banned
lol 14-15TF
You should be happy if you get 10.
1. It is for sure they will switch off CUs to improve yields
2. Console hardware will not run at speeds PC parts do.
3. 64CU even with disabled CUs. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. 64CU is the limit of CUs possible on GCN (and RDNA is still GCN) and this is reserved for their biggest dies which cost going above 500$
Remember folks that PS4 is 1,8TF so going from 1,8TF to 10TF is still huge imporvement and pretty typical jump in performance from current to next gen console.
You should be happy if you get 10.
1. It is for sure they will switch off CUs to improve yields
2. Console hardware will not run at speeds PC parts do.
3. 64CU even with disabled CUs. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. 64CU is the limit of CUs possible on GCN (and RDNA is still GCN) and this is reserved for their biggest dies which cost going above 500$
Remember folks that PS4 is 1,8TF so going from 1,8TF to 10TF is still huge imporvement and pretty typical jump in performance from current to next gen console.
DynamiteCop!
Banned
I think the mid-gen systems muddled the waters for people expectations. They think we should be having some massive extrapolation from them, no it's going from as you said the base systems.
10-11 teraflops is a huge leap from the PlayStation 4 and Xbox One, but because of say the Xbox One X it seems minuscule.
bitbydeath
Member
I thinking you’re underestimating the arch change.
It was already expected to be above Stadia which is 10.7TFs right?
So let’s say they hit 11TF which is on the very low end, with the arch change that brings it to around 13-14TF right?
Keep in mind that is the low end.
You say not to trust AMD due to past claims but this wasn’t just AMD working on it this time round.
Dontero
Banned
Those pro versions shouldn't be used as any indicator of next gen. Because every developer had to work with lowest common denominator in mind which was XboxOne with 1,2TF.
In reality this time industry is going from around 1,2TF to 10tf which is almost 8-9 times as much power increase instead of pretty typical 5 times.
Why do you expect stadia to not use Navi ? Why do you think Stadia launches summer instead of few months ago or now ? Because hardware wasn't ready.
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bitbydeath
Member
It’s already confirmed/leaked to use a custom 56 Vega.
Edit: And just read they’re using 14nm to top it all off.
Google Stadia to use First-Gen AMD Vega GPU Architecture: Khronos
It is now almost certain that Google is using a modified version of AMD's last-gen Vega 56 GPU for its Stadia cloud gaming service.
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Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
Source for this? AMD was tremendously clear about this not being the case to the point of inciting a PR slaughtering or worse if they lied about it so many time in official PR.
Dontero
Banned
Reasons:
- No company uses two different architectures for cost reasons. Which is why Nvidia uses same architecture for gaming, pro-work and even industry things like AI
- AMD already said that Vega arch will be used now for pro work and other stuff than gaming
- As 3 main features they described 3 pretty minor upgrades relatively to actual huge architecture change
- Still limit of 64CU by all leaks and sources.
- Despite being on 7nm it beats nvidia 2070 only by 6%. 2070 is on 12nm.
- GCN is ISA not an architecture. AMD does call revisions of GCN 2.0 3.0 etc but GCN effectively is ISA like x86 is.
Which means this is effectively just GCN revision much like Polaris. Polaris also said that it improves by 50% efficiency etc.
Of course there could be bigger changes than Polaris but it still will be the same ISA aka GCN
I am more interested on extra featues it will have that Sony and MS requested.
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TeamGhobad
Banned
why would a navi TF be more powerful than a vega TF?
llien
Member
GCN is a 7 years old instruction set.
CUDA is 11 years old instruction set.
x86 is 39 years old instruction set.
They are not going anywhere.
(and "but it's GCN" talk is silly. IPC has changed even when going from Vega to VII, even though formally it was called "die shrink")
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bitbydeath
Member
TeamGhobad
Banned
ya but Tflops is the output power of a gpu so why would one be more powerful that the other? isn't that the measuring stick we compare gpus?
Panajev2001a
GAF's Pleasant Genius
?
x86-64 is hardly 39 years old, GCN has evolved as an ISA too, and the architectural limitation is not the same thing as its ISA...
Stuart360
Member
Navi is supposed to be 1.25 times more efficiant, so people are taking it as 1.25 times more Terraflops compared to Vega. It doesnt really work like that.
CrustyBritches
Gold Member
TFLOPS is a measurement of potential compute ability. If you are talking something like ethereum mining then it's a decent way to gauge performance. IIRC the 1060 was around 20-22Mh/s, RX 480 with mod bios 26-28MH/s, and GTX 1070 around 30MH/s. That's more in alignment with their TFLOPS rating(4.5TF, 6TF, 6.5TF respectively).
Gaming load is different than compute. Memory compression, cache configuration, and many other factors come into play. One of AMD's biggest weaknesses recently was non-coherent pixel and texture memory access in comparison to Nvidia's tile based caching(L2 cache coherency). On AMD the pixel engine has to go through a slower memory controller before having access to the L2 cache. Vega allegedly fixed this issue by making the ROPs clients of the L2. I believe the feature was botched or didn't work correctly.
Notice Lisa Su recently mentioned new "multi-level cache hierarchy" and we've heard of AMD having "Maxwell's secret sauce". This is one of reasons AMD had worse perf in relation to compute than Nvidia. I'm not knowledgeable enough to get into the compute unit redesign except to say that it's made for better efficiency.
So for gaming performance currently the RTX 2060(6.5TFLOPS/170W) is a little better than Vega 64(12TFLOPS/300W). The Navi 10 they demoed had Vega 64's Strange Brigade result. Once we know it's retail config we can see how much they've improved in relation to Vega and Nvidia. Maybe a 10TF/190W Navi = 12TF Vega in gaming perf? We'll see.
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thelastword
Banned
No TF is greater than any TF....NV TF greater than AMD TF is all mumbo jumbo, the only differentiator is the arch and what it's strengths and weaknesses are..........The thing about Polaris and especially Vega, is that they slayed in shader heavy games; games with lots of PP etc... and yes, perhaps their Pixel engine could have been better or maybe it's because NV implements VRS on certain games, but with Navi, they are concentrating more on pure gaming, so they have redesigned their shader engine for higher geometry output, whilst reworking the CU pipeline entirely.....It's a more balanced architecture for pure gaming.......
mckmas8808
Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
PS5 Secret Sauce - Pastebin.com
Pastebin.com is the number one paste tool since 2002. Pastebin is a website where you can store text online for a set period of time.
There's literally no way this is true right?
Thabass
Member
Why in god's name would they want to even remotely use the Cell name anymore. Screams fake to me.
Braldryr
Banned
To go back into the Arragont Sony meme again and bring back the old days and price the system at $599 and then repeat the amazing comeback with PS6 while the Xbox 5 fails on day 1 of announcement.
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