• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

RedGamingTech: Xbox Series X Hot Chips Analysis Part 1 - GPU, CPU & Overview

JonnyMP3

Member
May 31, 2020
1,657
5,259
410
Paul's video's have a Sony bias to them though. He has way too many PS5 secret sauce videos. "Insiders" giving him the scoop on RDNA 3 and now Zen 3 nonsense. He does have that accent though that works for these type of videos. Even though he calls the SOC (system on chip) a sock.
You are correct!

Paul's voice is much more soothing than Rich's.
 

Bo_Hazem

Gold Dealer
Feb 10, 2020
16,160
75,447
965
35
Salalah, Oman
I don't recall Xbox fans stating any of that you mentioned. And so what if they speculated? All i see is Hot Chips stating that XSX's audio chip, design is just as capable as the PS5s, which sony/fans have been touting heavily. I guess you can basically take the PS5 superior audio narrative out of the equation now.




Read.
 

3liteDragon

Member
Mar 3, 2020
1,804
11,558
655
I don't recall Xbox fans stating any of that you mentioned. And so what if they speculated? All i see is Hot Chips stating that XSX's audio chip, design is just as capable as the PS5s, which sony/fans have been touting heavily. I guess you can basically take the PS5 superior audio narrative out of the equation now.
The audio chip isn’t as capable as Sony’s for processing 3D audio but isn’t that bad either based on the Hot Chips presentation. And the chips aren’t even processing the same thing, Sony’s Tempest engine is designed for processing HRTF’s (Head Related Transfer Functions) which are computationally expensive and also supports 100’s of sound sources. PS5’s 3D audio is vastly superior to the Series X’s, Sony just went hardcore on this specific feature compared to Microsoft.
 
Last edited:

splattered

Member
Feb 8, 2012
2,434
2,801
825
The audio chip isn’t as capable as Sony’s for processing 3D audio but isn’t that bad either based on the Hot Chips presentation. And the chips aren’t even processing the same thing, Sony’s Tempest engine is designed for processing HRTF’s (Head Related Transfer Functions) which are computationally expensive and also supports 100’s of sound sources. PS5’s 3D audio is vastly superior to the Series X’s, Sony just went hardcore on this specific feature compared to Microsoft.

Yep and it's too bad they didn't hardcore go after more console power instead :/
 

Hobbygaming

has been asked to post in 'Grounded' mode.
Sep 30, 2019
4,790
9,165
580
Paul's video's have a Sony bias to them though. He has way too many PS5 secret sauce videos. "Insiders" giving him the scoop on RDNA 3 and now Zen 3 nonsense. He does have that accent though that works for these type of videos. Even though he calls the SOC (system on chip) a sock.
Paul is good he's been right about his stuff going back to before last generation even started. He definitely has someone from the industry in his ear.
 
Last edited:

Lysandros

Member
Jul 28, 2020
865
3,197
350
I was expecting a bit more than 5 mb of gpu L2 cache since 5700 xt has 4 mb for 40 cus, but it's more than enough apparently. Has anyone any knowledge on how cache/cache per cu size affects performance?
 

onQ123

Member
May 1, 2010
17,268
9,135
1,420
I was expecting a bit more than 5 mb of gpu L2 cache since 5700 xt has 4 mb for 40 cus, but it's more than enough apparently. Has anyone any knowledge on how cache/cache per cu size affects performance?


Why did you expect more? 4MB for 40 CU is about the same ratio as 5MB for 52 CU.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lysandros

Lysandros

Member
Jul 28, 2020
865
3,197
350
Why did you expect more? 4MB for 40 CU is about the same ratio as 5MB for 52 CU.
I expected a bit more mainly from the jump to the RDN2 architecture. But yes, it'about 4% of difference, that's meaningless. I forgot about the disabled cus.
 

johnjohn

Member
Dec 7, 2019
491
805
285
So turns out the audio tech in the SX is just as good as the PS5.. kinda funny after people on here were clutching onto it as the reason PS5 was better than Series X lol.

All that's left for the PS5 is the SSD, and it's yet to be seen if they went overkill with it.

Series X seems like the much more balanced and much more capable console. Pricing is going to be very interesting. If they can match the price of the PS5... Oh boy
 
Last edited:

Gavon West

Member
Jan 12, 2018
2,143
2,405
405
So turns out the audio tech in the SX is just as good as the PS5.. kinda funny after people on here were clutching onto it as the reason PS5 was better than Series X lol.

All that's left for the PS5 is the SSD, and it's yet to be seen if they went overkill with it.

Series X seems like the much more balanced and much more capable console. Pricing is going to be very interesting. If they can match the price of the PS5... Oh boy
Match? I legit think Microsoft is looking to under cut Sony with the Series X and S. Promptly why we have this game of chicken going on between them.
 
  • LOL
Reactions: mejin
Mar 27, 2020
12,193
33,637
720
Uncharted bunghole
Nice try, at least try adding in the full clip.

"So far my opinion on either machine (PS5 and Series X has not changed) the Xbox Series X is very very powerful, it's monstrous honestly and in terms of of raw parallel performance it's just incredible, Sony's machine is designed for raw throughput, and I know those two approaches may sound the same, but believe me they are very different. Ultimately for the average game which doesn't push either console to its limits, which console performs the best? honestly it's going to depend on the lead development system, the game engine used and the developer talent, but if a game fully leverages the platforms, both consoles will get their positives and negatives and both the PS5 and Series X will have their own unique look."

Might as well include the whole thing so people can understand what Paul is trying to say.

@Dan_of_Rivia thanks for the extraction in the next gen thread since it's relevant here as well.

You do know he prefers xbox, right?

Isn't he more of a PC guy?
 
Last edited:
Jun 13, 2020
1,761
3,375
400
Might as well include the whole thing so people can understand what Paul is trying to say.

I dont know why you felt you had to do a repetition here, but since you did, you should have included my reply too:

----------------------
nothing of importance was missed in my clip.
saying that one machine is more powerful (very different), and that only the average games that don't push for nothing will look the same, is just sweet talking.

we know that all 3rd party games -give or take the indies- always push for all the power they can extract.
most of you have been counting pixels and foliage densities in every third party release since 2006, just switching winning sides from time to time.
and there are differences, as we all know

and even for the indies, about 3-4 minutes before that, he says that he thinks that they will push for full path tracing on xbox



one more notable thing he says is that -just as xbox does it- ray tracing must be combined with inference acceleration, otherwise it will be too taxing.
then he goes on to say that its crucial also for amd rdna2 in order to compete with nvidia and for ps5 to respectively compete (with xbox) to have this.
then he pauses, and says he is sure about amd having it


edit: I'll add the clip just to avoid having to answer to posts like the above

------------------




and since I had to write this again, here's a bonus video, the conclusion
 
Last edited:

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
Jun 7, 2004
18,806
12,371
2,110

Lol, that was the video summary on the article part which speculated about the limits rounded down to 100s GFLOPS range, the data comes from DF’s interview which says 64 FP ops/cycle at GPU clocks (2.23 GHz) which is way over 130 GFLOPS... 142.72 GFLOPS.

You are also counting fixed function HW as if it were fully user programmable there on XSX... it is “technically true” in the sense of equivalent performance/FP execution HW, but it is a bit misleading and Sony is not counting the equivalent audio HW just Tempest alone. I know not trying to beat their chests incessantly is a new concept for some ;).
 
Last edited:

Kazekage1981

Member
Apr 7, 2019
1,228
2,142
410
So turns out the audio tech in the SX is just as good as the PS5.. kinda funny after people on here were clutching onto it as the reason PS5 was better than Series X lol.

All that's left for the PS5 is the SSD, and it's yet to be seen if they went overkill with it.

Series X seems like the much more balanced and much more capable console. Pricing is going to be very interesting. If they can match the price of the PS5... Oh boy

I agree, the only thing that PS5 might also have a lead on (besides SSD) is its haptic feedback. Does MS have haptic feedback function similar to PS5? They haven't talked about it much.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CatLady and CobraXT
Jun 13, 2020
1,761
3,375
400
I agree, the only thing that PS5 might also have a lead on (besides SSD) is its haptic feedback. Does MS have haptic feedback function similar to PS5? They haven't talked about it much.
xbox has had impulse triggers only since .....the beggining of previous generation :]

see forza ...5 here, 2013

and a pre-xbone release demo
 
Last edited:

jimbojim

Banned
May 7, 2020
1,196
3,811
480
I agree, the only thing that PS5 might also have a lead on (besides SSD) is its haptic feedback. Does MS have haptic feedback function similar to PS5? They haven't talked about it much.

X1/XSX doesn't have haptic feedback nor adaptive triggers. Not even a damn gyro controls.

xbox has had impulse triggers only since .....the beggining of previous generation :]

see forza ...5 here, 2013

and a pre-xbone release demo

This is not the same as haptic feedback nor adaptive triggers
Wasn't impressed by this in Forza. Just different vibration when you driving on different surfaces.
 
Last edited:

jimbojim

Banned
May 7, 2020
1,196
3,811
480
Is it haptics or just your standard rumble?

It is just standard rumble, nothing else. These are the vibration motors in X1/XSX gamepad



Smallest ones are under triggers, of course
 
Last edited:
Jun 13, 2020
1,761
3,375
400
Is it haptics or just your standard rumble?
its programmable, variable feedback
for example in forza your left trigger progressively kicks as you block your wheels, the right trigger gives different feedback when you are about to spin your wheels and loose traction, shooters have had a recoil on the shooting trigger as your clip was about to empty, gears had feedback for perfect reload point etc.

Wasn't impressed by this in Forza. Just different vibration when you driving on different surfaces.
and I'm not impressed by this post of yours.
using the el-cheapo ps4 triggers for gran turismo sport, you should definitely have felt like being in heaven with xbox's triggers
 
Last edited:
Mar 27, 2020
12,193
33,637
720
Uncharted bunghole
It is just standard rumble, nothing else. These are the vibration motors in X1/XSX gamepad



Smallest ones are under triggers, of course

I knew it had standard rumble in the grips but I didn't know it was standard rumble and not haptics in the triggers

Thank you.

its programmable, variable feedback
for example in forza your left trigger progressively kicks as you block your wheels, the right trigger gives different feedback when you are about to spin your wheels, shooters have had a recoil on the shooting trigger as your clip was about to empty, etc.


and I'm not impressed by this post of yours

I was just wondering if the triggers had haptics or more old school rumble. They are a bit different.
 
Last edited:

jimbojim

Banned
May 7, 2020
1,196
3,811
480
its programmable, variable feedback
for example in forza your left trigger progressively kicks as you block your wheels, the right trigger gives different feedback when you are about to spin your wheels, shooters have had a recoil on the shooting trigger as your clip was about to empty, etc.


and I'm not impressed by this post of yours

What's the problem? I've just said what is true, though.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Lysandros

Kazekage1981

Member
Apr 7, 2019
1,228
2,142
410
so lets say a character touches water with his/her hands, would you able to feel the water?

the icestorm is cold, would you be able to feel the cold?

a character accidently touches fire, would u feel it getting hot? or running through a hot scorching desert?

the wind is about to blow your character away from a tornado, and you hold on to a poll with dear life, would u be able to feel the wind?

your character touches a mechanics of the electrical circuit, would u be able to feel the electrical shock?

your character digs dirt out of his hands to plant a seed, woud you be able to feel the dirt?



 
  • Praise the Sun
Reactions: Vognerful

jimbojim

Banned
May 7, 2020
1,196
3,811
480
its programmable, variable feedback
for example in forza your left trigger progressively kicks as you block your wheels, the right trigger gives different feedback when you are about to spin your wheels, shooters have had a recoil on the shooting trigger as your clip was about to empty, etc.

Lol. What is programmable? They just rumble. There is no resistance in X1 triggers at all.
EDIT: they are programmable, for weaker and stronger vibration. Just like every gamepad with basic rumble
 
Last edited:

Dnice1

Member
Mar 31, 2020
200
579
330
The audio chip isn’t as capable as Sony’s for processing 3D audio but isn’t that bad either based on the Hot Chips presentation. And the chips aren’t even processing the same thing, Sony’s Tempest engine is designed for processing HRTF’s (Head Related Transfer Functions) which are computationally expensive and also supports 100’s of sound sources. PS5’s 3D audio is vastly superior to the Series X’s, Sony just went hardcore on this specific feature compared to Microsoft.

John already confirmed in the DF video that XSX has HRTF support.
 

3liteDragon

Member
Mar 3, 2020
1,804
11,558
655
John already confirmed in the DF video that XSX has HRTF support.
Nice, but how many sound sources are being processed? On the Hot Chips slide, it says the Series X supports Dolby Atmos, DTS:X (surround sound speakers) and Windows Sonic. As far as I know, Atmos supports 32 sound sources, PS5 supports 100+ sound sources that can have 3D effects applied to them while being processed by the engine.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Rea and SynTha1

onQ123

Member
May 1, 2010
17,268
9,135
1,420
Nice, but how many sound sources are being processed? On the Hot Chips slide, it says the Series X supports Dolby Atmos, DTS:X and Windows Sonic. As far as I know, Atmos supports 32 sound sources, PS5 supports 100+ sound sources that can have 3D effects applied to them while being processed by the engine.

I think Xbox Series X support 400 sound sources or something like that


Edit: over 300 channels


 
Last edited:

NoMoChokeSJ

Banned
Jun 3, 2014
1,575
1,408
580
I agree, the only thing that PS5 might also have a lead on (besides SSD) is its haptic feedback. Does MS have haptic feedback function similar to PS5? They haven't talked about it much.
God I hope not. But Im one of these people that find rumble to be annoying, and the gimmicks of the DS4 controller unnecessary, even though GOT did use the touch pad decently. I'd rather they focus on VR for immersion than controller gimmicks.
 

TBiddy

Member
Mar 16, 2015
4,790
6,966
830
Denmark
Nice, but how many sound sources are being processed? On the Hot Chips slide, it says the Series X supports Dolby Atmos, DTS:X (surround sound speakers) and Windows Sonic. As far as I know, Atmos supports 32 sound sources, PS5 supports 100+ sound sources that can have 3D effects applied to them while being processed by the engine.

According to Anandtech it supports 300 channels.
 

jimbojim

Banned
May 7, 2020
1,196
3,811
480
The variance of trigger impulse effects is programmable


Lol. Rumble motors can ONLY provide stronger and weaker vibration, like every gamepad with basic vibration motors. Bunch of games has option for weak vibration, middle or stronger vibration. That's just simplistic. As i just stated abover rumble motors can't provide any resistance nor blocking the button. They just simply rumble, sometimes weaker, sometimes stronger. There is nothing else in it



 
Last edited: