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[Darth Ghandi]

Would You repeat that if she was your sister/daughter/girlfriend/wife ?

Reading in statements from the family in question they would agree with that.
Most people are talking about the how we must fix the horrendous situation in the centers but you guys are just yelling "STOP THEM ALL AND KICK EM OUT".

This article was written a few days ago and it has some very good suggestions regarding this meta discussion about destructive masculine norms.




Give training on how sexist remarks, sexual harassment is prevented and combated, and education about standards, masculinity, sexuality and violence from preschool to college.
Make it a compulsory part of all teacher training programs and law program.

Allocate public resources to education and long-term, structured violence prevention.

Sexual harassment and sexual violence is a crime and a problem of democracy, which must be reflected in the law.
The judiciary must ensure sexual violence, in everything from sexual molestation, sexual acts without consent to what is today the rape as criminal acts and to respond to them accordingly.

There are men and men in the group who perform these actions. Policy Proposals that focus on this, and that leads to more men involved, react and act against sexism and sexual harassment must be developed.

Politicians men should turn to the people and organizations who have long pushed the issue, understand the knowledge field seriously and take responsibility for new policies created.

Develop policy proposals, mainly for education, which leads to the popular culture, the pornography industry and the stories which today are often conveyed addressed, discussed and question on a knowledge-based way.

We live in a dual culture in which we have a public gender ideals with a feminist government. At the same time, we have a popular culture where women are devalued and where guys to be macho.

http://www.svt.se/opinion/article5965310.svt


The article is a great read. We have people working with preventing crap like this, shouldn't we listen to them?

 

[Fallout-NL]

Which is logical. And well founded.



It is really fucked up. Sadly most of these single men have no respect for women.

Come the fuck on man. You're better than this. Yes this is absolutely tragic, but making blanket statements like that doesn't help anybody.

 

[KurtSloane]

The death of one person is a tragedy but the long term consequences of a rise of the far right shouldn't be ignored.

Then countries need to stop implementing stupid immigration policies that are above their means, in terms of resources and political support.

 

[Darth Ghandi]

Then countries need to stop implementing stupid immigration policies that are above their means, in terms of resources and political support.

Or, you know. not have policies that give billions to the private sector. Thus keeping the money they need for the people in need.

 

[KurtSloane]

Or, you know. not have policies that give billions to the private sector. Thus keeping the money they need for the people in need.

Those people are not the responsibility of anyone, these people are taken in as an act of charity, not obligation.


Secondly, those policies don't change to aid citizens, it ain't going to change for a few refugees. Also money doesn't get rid off criminals within the refugees, doesn't immediately cause more police, health workers or hospitals, schools or homes to jump into existence.

Infrastructure takes decades to build, not months.

Let's deal with the realities of the situation, pie in the sky sentiment does nothing, ignoring the realities gets people killed or causes suffering.

 

[michaelius]

Reading in statements from the family in question they would agree with that.
Most people are talking about the how we must fix the horrendous situation in the centers but you guys are just yelling "STOP THEM ALL AND KICK EM OUT".

This article was written a few days ago and it has some very good suggestions regarding this meta discussion about destructive masculine norms.




Give training on how sexist remarks, sexual harassment is prevented and combated, and education about standards, masculinity, sexuality and violence from preschool to college.
Make it a compulsory part of all teacher training programs and law program.

Allocate public resources to education and long-term, structured violence prevention.

Sexual harassment and sexual violence is a crime and a problem of democracy, which must be reflected in the law.
The judiciary must ensure sexual violence, in everything from sexual molestation, sexual acts without consent to what is today the rape as criminal acts and to respond to them accordingly.

There are men and men in the group who perform these actions. Policy Proposals that focus on this, and that leads to more men involved, react and act against sexism and sexual harassment must be developed.

Politicians men should turn to the people and organizations who have long pushed the issue, understand the knowledge field seriously and take responsibility for new policies created.

Develop policy proposals, mainly for education, which leads to the popular culture, the pornography industry and the stories which today are often conveyed addressed, discussed and question on a knowledge-based way.

We live in a dual culture in which we have a public gender ideals with a feminist government. At the same time, we have a popular culture where women are devalued and where guys to be macho.

http://www.svt.se/opinion/article5965310.svt


The article is a great read. We have people working with preventing crap like this, shouldn't we listen to them?

Training and education is one thing but there needs to be political will to say accept our rules or go back to where you came from for those who don't follow it.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Or, you know. not have policies that give billions to the private sector. Thus keeping the money they need for the people in need.

If you're worried about misuse of money you should be in favor of closing borders and have the money saved here help a whole lot more people in the refugee camps to better housing, food, medicine and education. That way it gets directly to people in need.

 

[Calabria]

It was pretty big news. Canada is only accepting children, women, and families-
http://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-refugee-plan-women-children-families-1.3330185

I really do hope our government really stick by this criteria

The problem is that years of indoctrination will is nog something an hour long class or whatever is going to fix sadly.

it's hopeless trying to change someone's mindset by mere a few hours of courses

 

[TatteredHat]

Well, it definitely won't be the last occurrence of violence against refugee workers.

 

[SolidusDave]

Yes, its all about teams obviously, its not like the rise of anti-refugee sentiment is going to result in people saying and getting hurt, no. All the refugee centers set on fire are just imagination!

The latter would not happen as often if these incidents were not treated like points for either political sport team but as fact. It's not racist to go against criminals.
If the left and central parties acknowledge the existing problems and offer solutions instead of thinking it would go against their ideology, people would not have to seek out the far right or feel the need that they have to "solve" the situation themselves via vigilante crimes.

 

[Hoya Destroyer]

Very sad, but completely inevitable.
Ah, Europe. What are you doing? Your priority should be the safety of your own citizens. Its not up to you to save the world.

 

[Calabria]

Reading in statements from the family in question they would agree with that.
Most people are talking about the how we must fix the horrendous situation in the centers but you guys are just yelling "STOP THEM ALL AND KICK EM OUT".

This article was written a few days ago and it has some very good suggestions regarding this meta discussion about destructive masculine norms.




Give training on how sexist remarks, sexual harassment is prevented and combated, and education about standards, masculinity, sexuality and violence from preschool to college.
Make it a compulsory part of all teacher training programs and law program.

Allocate public resources to education and long-term, structured violence prevention.

Sexual harassment and sexual violence is a crime and a problem of democracy, which must be reflected in the law.
The judiciary must ensure sexual violence, in everything from sexual molestation, sexual acts without consent to what is today the rape as criminal acts and to respond to them accordingly.

There are men and men in the group who perform these actions. Policy Proposals that focus on this, and that leads to more men involved, react and act against sexism and sexual harassment must be developed.

Politicians men should turn to the people and organizations who have long pushed the issue, understand the knowledge field seriously and take responsibility for new policies created.

Develop policy proposals, mainly for education, which leads to the popular culture, the pornography industry and the stories which today are often conveyed addressed, discussed and question on a knowledge-based way.

We live in a dual culture in which we have a public gender ideals with a feminist government. At the same time, we have a popular culture where women are devalued and where guys to be macho.

http://www.svt.se/opinion/article5965310.svt


The article is a great read. We have people working with preventing crap like this, shouldn't we listen to them?

thing is talk is cheap, implementation is the hard part, you need a lot of money, time, and extreme resolved at government level and society level to follow thru, thru thick and thin, with no guarantee of success whatsoever.....and there will be casualties along the way........if the right-wing can't take it anymore, if they feel that their voice is not heard anymore, then they'd go to extreme measures

 

[HoodWinked]

its sort of not exclusive to refugees, young males just tend to make up a fairly high percentage of violent crimes but its exacerbated by not having some type of preoccupation like school or work. maybe biological/chemical changes in the body during teenage years can cause some irrational behavior.

you may be able to sort of get an idea of what may have been going though this teenager's head at the time possibly frustrated, pretty much a chaotic up bringing, no real direction seeing an attractive woman who is of lebanese decent with blonde hair. maybe something may have resonated with him to become fixated on her.

i think canada is sort of being very pragmatic about how they're accepting migrants despite how non pc it is.

 

[NaughtyGod]

You so running away from
monsters and then become a monster to kill someone who help you when you are most desperate. Even animals don't
do this.

 

[Greddleok]

I agree, it's based on ignorance and fear.

You're right, it is based on fear. I am scared that my family is more at risk by letting these people in. It seems that recent events make that a rather logical fear. It's not like all these attacks are a single one off event.

 

[norinrad]

RIP young lady. You did good with your time on earth.

 

[GeordieMark]

It's annoying that people will turn this into support for stopping support for refugees when the truth is that murders happen.

And its pretty sad that people are shrugging their shoulders at the death of a young girl who was there to help refugees, because, "hey murders happen".

 

[Zaph]

Terrible tragedy. It takes incredible compassion (and courage to match) to work those centres.

And this is why Canada is turning away single men in their refugee pools. Policing large groups of sexually frustrated teenagers who don't speak the language from tearing each other and their aid workers apart is just going to sap resources.

Yes, but this is only a nice choice to have when you're separated by 3000 miles of ocean and can cherry-pick and vet your refugees.

In mainland Europe, the problem is on the doorstep. Migrants and refugees are travelling for miles through Turkey, or coming ashore in Greece and Italy. If every EU country said 'no young men', they'd still have to deal with them - can't choose who to process and expect the rest to walk home.

No clue what the solution is, but the gender imbalance in certain demographic groups is going to make it a much harder problem to solve the longer they leave it.

 

[hodgy100]

You should really read up on womens rights in mentioned countries.

Syria (considered progressive in comparison to other Arab nations)



No need to talk about gay and transgender rights, there are none.

But keep pretending that those countries and the majority of people who live there don't have a different view on women and minorities rights.

Are you what they call regressive left?

does that mean we should deny aid to the populace of a country because their laws differ from ours?

Just because their civil rights are in the gutter doesn't mean we should abandon these people to die.

 

[Tony Redgrave]

Rest in Peace.

What an incredibly sad situation, I don't even know what to say.

 

[Calabria]

meantime

Greece about to be suspended from Schengen Zone

http://www.newsweek.com/greece-schengen-suspension-refugee-crisis-419590

sorry can't create thread, so i post refugee-related news here

 

[Lime]

And its pretty sad that people are shrugging their shoulders at the death of a young girl who was there to help refugees, because, "hey murders happen".

No one is dismissing the gravity of the situation, but the solution isn't to generalize and think that this is somehow a reason to let refugees die wherever they are coming from or think that somehow this is endemic to all refugees (which many people are doing - "it's in their nature", "it's their culture", "they need to learn about Western ideals", etc.). Rather this tragedy highlights how we need to properly consider some of the more unstable and traumatized refugees, along with proper security procedures for personnel.

 

[Darth Ghandi]

Those people are not the responsibility of anyone, these people are taken in as an act of charity, not obligation.


Secondly, those policies don't change to aid citizens, it ain't going to change for a few refugees. Also money doesn't get rid off criminals within the refugees, doesn't immediately cause more police, health workers or hospitals, schools or homes to jump into existence.

Infrastructure takes decades to build, not months.

Let's deal with the realities of the situation, pie in the sky sentiment does nothing, ignoring the realities gets people killed or causes suffering.

Well I personally would say countries are obligated to uphold human rights which the right to asylum is one.

You are talking about in you post that countries can't deal which I say is wrong. That we can help if we change how the system works.

Training and education is one thing but there needs to be political will to say accept our rules or go back to where you came from for those who don't follow it.

I largely agree.

If you're worried about misuse of money you should be in favor of closing borders and have the money saved here help a whole lot more people in the refugee camps to better housing, food, medicine and education. That way it gets directly to people in need.

I'm personally done with this line of thinking. Asking people who work en represent UNICEF they nothing of the sort. They ask for more resources and that we keep taking people in.

thing is talk is cheap, implementation is the hard part, you need a lot of money, time, and extreme resolved at government level and society level to follow thru, thru thick and thin, with no guarantee of success whatsoever.....and there will be casualties along the way........if the right-wing can't take it anymore, if they feel that their voice is not heard anymore, then they'd go to extreme measures

Well the people writing the article aren't just cheap talk. They are people working with the issues we are talking about.

Studies have shown that men you have regressive ideals of manhood are more likely to commit sexual crimes. This is dealing with that.

And regarding extreme measures from the right: Have you seen the number of arson attacks in Sweden just in 2015? Not montion the school attack in trollhättan that had racial motives?
The right are already doing plenty extreme stuff, just doesn't generate that many threads on neogaf.

 

[Calabria]

does that mean we should deny aid to the populace of a country because their laws differ from ours?

Just because their civil rights are in the gutter doesn't mean we should abandon these people to die.

Many of them are actually economic refugee.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/condi...that-iraqi-refugees-are-returning-home-2016-1

The conditions in German refugee shelters are so bad that some migrants would rather return to the homes they fled than stay where they are.

“They gather people in horrible camps with no space to sleep, bathe or relax. There is no hope here in Germany," Heval Aram, an Iraqi asylum seeker in Germany, told Euronews.

Aram had travelled for 12 days with his family to come to Germany.

"I hope nobody will leave their home to come here,” he said.

Others complain that the asylum process is too slow.

"I am not allowed to bring my family, and I haven't received a permit to stay yet. I can't work, I can't move around freely," Mohammed Mohsen, who has been seeking asylum for over 5 months, told Deutsche Welle.

"You can't open the doors to refugees and then not see the process through," Mohsen said.

Hamid Maheed, a booking agent at Iraqi Airways, told Deutsche Welle that since October he had helped around 50 refugees go back to Iraq every week, and twice as many in January.

Other people have come to the conclusion that the culture in Germany is too different from theirs back home and that they won't be able to adapt.

Abdullah Alsoaan, a 51-year-old Syrian, told the Wall Street Journal that he came to Germany to be treated for diabetes and that he was now waiting for a new passport to return home.

After seeing teenagers kiss in public, he realized he could not raise his daughters there. “The problem isn’t with the Germans or Germany, people are very nice,” Alsoaan told the Journal. “But they have their way of living their lives and we have ours,” he explained.

The Iraqi embassy in Germany has in the last four months issued almost 1,500 passports for people who want to go back home, DW reports. The passports are "single use" and only allow them to fly to Iraq. Some asylum seekers had lost their passports on their way to Europe. Others had thrown them away to pretend they were Syrians, as asylum requests from Syrians are often prioritized.

Some of the asylum seekers sold their last jewellery items in order to afford a ticket to go back back home. Alla Hadrous, who owns a gold shop and runs a travel agency told Euronews that a lot of people had already left: "I don’t have the exact figure, but it’s a lot. Some have had to sell their valuables... in order to buy a ticket back to Erbil or Baghdad.”

 

[GeordieMark]

No one is dismissing the gravity of the situation, but the solution isn't to generalize and think that this is somehow a reason to let refugees die wherever they are coming from or think that somehow this is endemic to all refugees (which many people are doing - "it's in their nature", "it's their culture", "they need to learn about Western ideals", etc.). Rather this tragedy highlights how we need to properly consider some of the more unstable and traumatized refugees, along with proper security procedures for personnel.

Read the post I quoted. He literally said "murders happen". If the poster had written any of the things you just did, it would have been a different response. The post I quoted wasn't even responding to anyone. It was just a dumbshit generalisation.

 

[Chuckie]

does that mean we should deny aid to the populace of a country because their laws differ from ours?

Just because their civil rights are in the gutter doesn't mean we should abandon these people to die.

Did I say that anywhere?

I merely responded to they guy who is somehow pretending there is no problem with the way women are treated/seen in the countries these refugees come from.

 

[Silexx]

Its not really clear in that source, but the basic plan is women, children and families first. They did not say they will not take single men. They said they are taking the other groups first before considering single men. I'm can't disagree with this plan, if they are not enough families then they will have to move on to single men. I guess I'm old school but I'm fine with this.

Link

And ease up on the hyperbole no one is saying you have to take all, the point is don't take none based on one.

Also, this only for government sponsored refugees. There is no selection criteria for privately-sponsored refugees.

 

[hodgy100]

Did I say that anywhere?

I merely responded to they guy who is somehow pretending there is no problem with the way women are treated/seen in the countries these refugees come from.

sorry It was more adressing people saying we should refuse refugees because their morals aren't the same as ours rather than a specific retort to you.

Many of them are actually economic refugee.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/condi...that-iraqi-refugees-are-returning-home-2016-1

and they are going home because they discovered the service being provided by germany isn't for them but for people who were fleeing for their life. The piece comes across more about how badly organised the system is in germany than anything.

 

[Lime]

Read the post I quoted. He literally said "murders happen". If the poster had written any of the things you just did, it would have been a different response. The post I quoted wasn't even responding to anyone. It was just a dumbshit generalisation.

The point being made (I assume) is that one shouldn't jump to conclusions and think that this is somehow endemic to refugees.

 

[G.ZZZ]

Economic refugees aren't going back, that's wishful thinking and it should be clear to anyone that work in the sector

 

[Kinokou]

Any reports on if the stabbing is affecting the number of volunteers in Sweden? I could imagine a lot of people quitting or "forcing" their loved ones to quit out of fear.

Many of them are actually economic refugee.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/condi...that-iraqi-refugees-are-returning-home-2016-1

Norway had a news spread on the Syrian woman "Aisha" (Norwegian) who had lived in Dubai since before the civil war started, and found out that she wanted to go to Norway since the benefits were so good, but went back after two months: here is some of her reasoning via google translate:

- Honestly, I was shocked. I thought Norway was more modern and more civilized. It was so cold there. Cold in all respects. We stayed in a very small village, with only two supermarkets. We had to walk for an hour to get there. And then you had to bear all the heavy goods back to the refugee center, on your own feet. It was very tough for me.

It seems the effect can be that those who don't really need protection will go back if they can achive a higher standard of living that way, it just too bad when they waste their money and time on going to Europe before finding out that they had it better where they were. It would be a big help if they never came so we could focus on helping those actually in need of protection .

 

[GeordieMark]

The point being made (I assume) is that one shouldn't jump to conclusions and think that this is somehow endemic to refugees.

You could equally say that one shouldn't jump to the conclusion that most people will assume this is endemic to refugees. Basically, it was a pointless post.

 

[Evolution of Metal]

Economic refugees aren't going back, that's wishful thinking and it should be clear to anyone that work in the sector

Nobody is going back, you would need to transport people like prisoners to do so.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/11/28/swedish-police-14000-migrants-due-deportation-vanished/

 

[EmSeta]

that's what happens when you treat politics like a sport. oh no my team might take a hit from this.

Yup. I really do worry about the political consequences of these incidents long term, but it's frankly disgusting how some people's knee-jerk reactions always only focus on how it might affect the politics.

Sort of like how gun nuts only worry about the second amendment when massacres occur. Ew.

 

[ClosingADoor]

I'm personally done with this line of thinking. Asking people who work en represent UNICEF they nothing of the sort. They ask for more resources and that we keep taking people in.

Help organisations asks people to help more. Of course. But if you are so worried about money, then you should acknowledge the current situation is wasting a ton of money that could go to people in need. We are taking in people from regions that are not at war, yet make tens of thousands of euros in costs per person. Resources are limited, so they should be put to use to help the most and the ones who need it the most.

Close borders. Sent more help to refugee camps. Take in families directly from those camps to help the ones in need. Basically, what Canada and the US do, but on a larger scale since we are next to the trouble.

How anybody can support a policy that basically tells people "make a dangerous journey across an ocean where you can drown and then walk across a continent on your own, and then we help" is beyond me.

 

[Calabria]

Sad thing is that Italy has warned and been asking for help with refugees since 2009-2010, even before the Arab Spring. Boats of refugees come to Lampedusa, and Italy had asked for other EU countries for help and refugee policy. But Germany and other countries didn't listen, they acted like it's all Italy's problem

 

[hodgy100]

Nobody is going back, you would need to transport people like prisoners to do so.

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2015/11/28/swedish-police-14000-migrants-due-deportation-vanished/

breitbart... really?

 

[leatherhat]

breitbart... really?

http://www.thelocal.se/20151127/14000-illegal-immigrants-disappear-without-trace

 

[hodgy100]

http://www.thelocal.se/20151127/14000-illegal-immigrants-disappear-without-trace

Thanks, That's quite the gaffe by the swedish authorities.

The incident does not involve economic migrants fleeing deportation like the poster that originally linked to the incident implied. Unless you are conflating all asylum seekers with economic migrants, which is obviously flawed reasoning as there are clearly people that do need genuine help. I'm not sure I can blame people trying not to be deported back to countries that are ill equipped to deal with them.

I don't blame people for trying to flee either extreme poverty or war. I jsut shake my head at how badly many european countries have dealt with the issue as it will just lead to further strife for all.

 

[ClosingADoor]

Thanks, That's quite the gaffe by the swedish authorities.

Wait until you read about the 600.000 people Germany lost because of the bugs in their system. People applying with multiple identities, traveling to other countries, disappearing into an illegal life. And the impossibility to deport people.

In many places, refugees simply disappear soon after arrival, without anyone knowing where they've gone. The operators of some asylum-seeker camps, like one in the state of Hesse outside of Frankfurt, report a disappearance rate among refugees as high as 50 percent within the first two days after arrival.

One German government document states that around 5,500 Algerians, Moroccans and Tunisians were "subject to deportation" as of the end of July, but officials only managed to deport 53 nationals from those countries during the first half of 2015.

http://www.spiegel.de/international...ill-safe-after-cologne-attacks-a-1073165.html

 

[1.21Gigawatts]

but I can't really blame people anymore when things like this happen.

I can. I will always blame people for their racist and hateful views.

 

[hodgy100]

Wait until you read about the 600.000 people Germany lost because of the bugs in their system. People applying with multiple identities, traveling to other countries, disappearing into an illegal life. And the impossibility to deport people.

http://www.spiegel.de/international...ill-safe-after-cologne-attacks-a-1073165.html

yet again another show of bad organisation.

 

[ClosingADoor]

I can. I will always blame people for their racist and hateful views.

Once again. Questioning the current immigration policy is not racist or hateful in any way. There are serious problems that need to be solved, which has nothing to do with racism. Just painting everyone who is against the current policies as racist is not helping anything.

yet again another show of bad organisation.

Pretty much. Europe was unprepared and looked away until they couldn't anymore. And now we are dealing with the mess, leading to sad situations like this.

 

[leatherhat]

Once again. Questioning the current immigration policy is not racist or hateful in any way. There are serious problems that need to be solved, which has nothing to do with racism. Just painting everyone who is against the current policies as racist is not helping anything.

Its helping them to feel morally superior to other people and thats the most important thing.

 

[Chuckie]

Thanks, That's quite the gaffe by the swedish authorities.

The incident does not involve economic migrants fleeing deportation like the poster that originally linked to the incident implied. Unless you are conflating all asylum seekers with economic migrants, which is obviously flawed reasoning as there are clearly people that do need genuine help.

These are illegal immigrants who are marked for deportation. If they were asylum seekers from a war torn area, the would have gotten asylum. The fact that they were about to be deported means they were economic refugees.

The original poster posted said article because it shows you that economic refugees don't just 'go'.

 

[hodgy100]

These are illegal immigrants who are marked for deportation. If they were asylum seekers from a war torn area, the would have gotten asylum. The fact that they were about to be deported means they were economic refugees.

The original poster posted said article because it shows you that economic refugees don't just 'go'.

no the article doesn't say they aren't refugees. it says they were being deported to the first european country they entered for them to be processed there.

Its helping them to feel morally superior to other people and thats the most important thing.

come on now. We want europe to deal with this better because at the end of the day people are only getting harmed due to the ineptitude that europe's governments are showing while dealing with these issues.

 

[FyreWulff]

A government should protect its citizens over non-citizens.

Women (and men) get stabbed working with similar age populations in the countries taking in refugees already - it's called the juvenile detention system. And the trauma and conditions some refugees will experience are not much different than the ones that will cause your own citizens to end up in facilities similar to this, who end up stabbing people.

The same stuff happens in the homeless shelter system as well. Homeless shelters are one of the worst places to be, even the "good ones". Men get stabbed and killed. Women get stabbed and killed and raped. In first world countries, in your own fucking city, and now you're going to start suddenly being concerned about the safety of your own citizens?

Nah, breh.

 

[Chuckie]

no the article doesn't say they aren't refugees. it says they were being deported to the first european country they entered for them to be processed there.

You are right. I didn't see the story continued below some photo links to other articles.

 

[leatherhat]

Women (and men) get stabbed working with similar age populations in the countries taking in refugees already - it's called the juvenile detention system. And the trauma and conditions some refugees will experience are not much different than the ones that will cause your own citizens to end up in facilities similar to this, who end up stabbing people.

The same stuff happens in the homeless shelter system as well. Homeless shelters are one of the worst places to be, even the "good ones".

So at this point you're basically arguing that we should stop all birth, you know, just in case.

How is it that people cannot see a difference between dealing with native criminals and importing more of them? Every country has criminals, only stupid ones take in other countries criminals.

 

[FyreWulff]

How is it that people cannot see a difference between dealing with native criminals and importing more of them? Every country has criminals, only stupid ones take in other countries criminals.

Do you know how statistics work?

Are you going to also suggest we stop all births right now because that will just make more criminals?

Are you aware that we literally make criminals as a byproduct of our "western value" systems? We send people with expired plates to jail and they're forced to join a gang to survive. This happens in the United States. And then we rotate the gang leaders to other jails and they recruit even more people to their gangs, and the gang power expands, forcing more people to join them or be killed.

The math makes it impossible to ever not have criminals in any group of people. Instead of abandoning one's own humanity the response should be more funding and better facilities and better processing.