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[SLoWMoTIoN]

Do you believe adoption is a right or a privilege?

Is it a right or a privilege to have kids?

 

[JordanN]

Is it a right or a privilege to have kids?

The government makes it a privilege.
But biologically, it's quite clear heterosexuals will produce children naturally.

 

[Vicetrailia]

Jordan, Rick Santorums talking point is not useful. The data says here's no significant difference.

 

[SLoWMoTIoN]

The government makes it a privilege.
But biologically, it's quite clear heterosexuals will produce children naturally.

The fact that anybody can preggo somebody doesn't make it a priviledge. There are no tests to being a paremt and any idiot can have a kid. It isn't a priviledge or enforced this isn't China although I wish it was when it comes to having 5+ kids "just cause you can" while mooching of the government.

 

[JordanN]

The fact that anybody can preggo somebody doesn't make it a priviledge. There are no tests to being a paremt and any idiot can have a kid. It isn't a priviledge or enforced this isn't China although I wish it was when it comes to having 5+ kids "just cause you can" while mooching of the government.

As long as government exists, we don't live in a world where parents have unlimited rights over children. Even outside of China. For example, the government can force children to get blood transfusions which some religions consider a violation.

But when the government is not involved, having kids is a natural right. As long as you have a penis and a vagina. The same can't be said for same-sex couples.

 

[BraveOne]

As long as government exists, we don't live in a world where parents have unlimited rights over children. Even outside of China. For example, the government can force children to get blood transfusions which some religions consider a violation.

But when the government is not involved, having kids is a natural right. As long as you have a penis and a vagina. The same can't be said for same-sex couples.

That has nothing to do with a same sex couple adopting a child. Your just projecting your own prejudice onto a system that clearly works. They have done the studies and same sex couples will raise a child to the same standards a hetro couple will. As the user posted before you need to do your research before you make silly hot takes then pivot the conversation away into the Chinese government doing blood transfusions.

Flaks, D. K., Ficher, I., Masterpasqua, F., & Joseph, G. (1995) Lesbians choosing motherhood: a comparative study of lesbian and heterosexual parents and their children. Developmental Psychology, 31(1), 105-114.

Compared 15 lesbian couples and the 3- to 9-yr-old children born to them through donor insemination with 15 matched, heterosexual-parent families. A variety of assessment measures were used to evaluate the children’s cognitive functioning and behavioral adjustment as well as the parents’ relationship quality and parenting skills. Results revealed no significant differences between the 2 groups of children, who also compared favorably with the standardization samples for the instruments used. In addition, no significant differences were found between dyadic adjustment of lesbian and heterosexual couples. Only in the area of parenting did the 2 groups of couples differ; lesbian couples exhibited more parenting awareness skills than did heterosexual couples. The implications of these findings are discussed.

 

[JordanN]

That has nothing to do with a same sex couple adopting a child. Your just projecting your own prejudice onto a system that clearly works. They have done the studies and same sex couples will raise a child to the same standards a hetro couple will. As the user posted before you need to do your research before you make silly hot takes then pivot the conversation away into the Chinese government doing blood transfusions.

How can I be prejudice when I said I'm in favor of same-sex adoption? Maybe you're the one doing projections?

And once again, I've never seen a society that has had same-sex adoption exist for the same amount of time as heterosexual ones. No study debunks this.
It's not prejudice to trust a system nature created for us and has been working for far longer than same-sex ones have.

 

[Gander]

I like to see the end goal in things and I usually do even if the answer is only money.

I just don't see what the GOP after with it's intrusiveness in reproduction in general. No abortions, No gov't provided birth control, No sex education but no increasing the number families that can adopt. It's like they are purposely trying to ruin our civilization.

I have not checked the numbers but it might possible they may actually want the waiting period for abortion to be longer than the waiting period to get a gun.

 

[Coffe Time]

How can I be prejudice when I said I'm in favor of same-sex adoption? Maybe you're the one doing projections?

I hope you know the different between being against same sex couples adopting and being in favor of discrimination against same sex couples adopting.

And once again, I've never seen a society that has had same-sex adoption exist for the same amount of time as heterosexual ones. No study debunks this.

By this logic, same sex couples will never be as qualified to adopt. This is a fallacy.

It's not prejudice to trust a system nature created for us and has been working for far longer than same-sex ones have.

This is also a fallacy.

 

[BraveOne]

How can I be prejudice when I said I'm in favor of same-sex adoption? Maybe you're the one doing projections?

And once again, I've never seen a society that has had same-sex adoption exist for the same amount of time as heterosexual ones. No study debunks this.
It's not prejudice to trust a system nature created for us and has been working for far longer than same-sex ones have.

I'm not for banning same-sex adoption, but I would like a system that puts heterosexual couples first on priority before same-sex ones.

You clearly want a system that will discriminate against same sex couples because of their sexual orientation because you dont understand in your own words the long term effect of same sex adoption. There is nothing to understand when it comes to children who are in need of a home, as long as you meet the requirements needed to bring a child up in a safe and loving environment their upbringing will be the same as a hetro couple.

As for the study you are asking for .. you wont find as its an unreasonable study to conduct since same sex adoption itself was not around hundreds of years ago, so no point in making claims against same sex adoption when studies have been conducted on adults who grew up with gay parents are just being dismissed.

 

[JordanN]

I hope you know the different between being against same sex couples adopting and being in favor of discrimination against same sex couples adopting.

prej·u·dice
ˈprejədəs/
noun
1.
preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.
"English prejudice against foreigners"
synonyms reconceived idea, preconception, prejudgment
"male prejudices about women"

2. LAW
harm or injury that results or may result from some action or judgment.
"prejudice resulting from delay in the institution of the proceedings"

How are same sex couples being harmed when I said they could still adopt but preference is given to heterosexual ones?

By this logic, same sex couples will never be as qualified to adopt. This is a fallacy.

Maybe it could be, maybe it's not. But why does this have to be a bad thing? Unless you believe adoption to be a right and not a privilege.

 

[BraveOne]

How are same sex couples being harmed when I said they could still adopt but preference is given to heterosexual ones?

discrimination
dɪˌskrɪmɪˈneɪʃ(ə)n/
noun
noun: discrimination; plural noun: discriminations

1. 1.
   the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.
   "victims of racial discrimination"
   synonyms rejudice, bias, bigotry, intolerance, narrow-mindedness, unfairness, inequity, favouritism, one-sidedness, partisanship; More
   
   
   

 

[JordanN]

discrimination
dɪˌskrɪmɪˈneɪʃ(ə)n/
noun
noun: discrimination; plural noun: discriminations

1. 1.
   the unjust or prejudicial treatment of different categories of people, especially on the grounds of race, age, or sex.
   "victims of racial discrimination"
   synonyms rejudice, bias, bigotry, intolerance, narrow-mindedness, unfairness, inequity, favouritism, one-sidedness, partisanship; More
   

If a man walks into a women's bathroom and is told to leave on the basis of his gender, is that discrimination/prejudice?

 

[BraveOne]

If a man walks into a women's bathroom and is told to leave on the basis of his gender, is that discrimination/prejudice?

Ladies and Gentlemen .. this is the stupidity we are dealing with

I believe that regardless to what anyone says you'll fall back to your same tired talking points over and over again. Interacting with you is a pointless and frustrating endeavor and I suggest that everyone ignore all your posts if to do nothing more than protect their blood pressure.

Should have taken your advice ... sorry

 

[JordanN]

Ladies and Gentlemen .. this is the stupidity we are dealing with

When the reaction gifs gets posted, it means you concede my point is right.

 

[Coffe Time]

prej·u·dice
ˈprejədəs/
noun
1.
preconceived opinion that is not based on reason or actual experience.
"English prejudice against foreigners"
synonyms reconceived idea, preconception, prejudgment
"male prejudices about women"

2. LAW
harm or injury that results or may result from some action or judgment.
"prejudice resulting from delay in the institution of the proceedings"

How are same sex couples being harmed when I said they could still adopt but preference is given to heterosexual ones?

You’re twisting my words by providing a definition to something unrelated. Both don’t work in context to what I said.

Maybe it could be, maybe it's not. But why does this have to be a bad thing? Unless you believe adoption to be a right and not a privilege.

Ok, so what’s even the point of your argument?

 

[Corrik]

Homosexuality isnt a complex or traumatizing thing. Its just a thing that exists. If we treat it as this thing that you have to be older to understand, we're discriminating against same sex couples. If we just acknowledge it as something normal, like it is, kids will be fine. Studies show that kids who are introduced to the concept of homosexuality and transgenderism at an early age, they are likely to be less bigoted and just accept it. That's what we want.
What you want is perpetuating bigotry. Kids are fine with these things. Trust me.

I disagree. While there is nothing wrong with either of the lifestyles, they are not the normal lifestyle. And, you cannot explain to a child this without diving into matters of sexuality which a kid cannot understand.

In addition to the way they may be treated by others also due to the same sex parents.

The child should be utmost and paramount the person that should be the primary concern here. I believe it is too confusing for a child to understand before they understand sexuality.

Same with the reading of a transgender book to kindgerarten students controversy.


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/transgender-reveal-kindergarten-class-rocklin-academy-parents-upset/

Like, this is something that should not be pushed on children of young ages who do not understand sex yet. And, parents should be allowed to opt their children out of it.

It is nothing against those who are transgender or are same sex. They are just regular people and have the right to do as they wish. But, I think when this starts to be thrust on others who cannot understand it yet, such as the book reading in kindergarten, or at the detriment to others, such as transgender athletes dominating women's sports and being allowed to compete, or so on that it has gone too far.

Thus, I do not agree with adoption in those scenarios.

That is my opinion regarding it whether you like it or not.

 

[Coffe Time]

I disagree. While there is nothing wrong with either of the lifestyles, they are not the normal lifestyle. And, you cannot explain to a child this without diving into matters of sexuality which a kid cannot understand.

In addition to the way they may be treated by others also due to the same sex parents.

The child should be utmost and paramount the person that should be the primary concern here. I believe it is too confusing for a child to understand before they understand sexuality.

Same with the reading of a transgender book to kindgerarten students controversy.


https://www.cbsnews.com/news/transgender-reveal-kindergarten-class-rocklin-academy-parents-upset/

Like, this is something that should not be pushed on children of young ages who do not understand sex yet. And, parents should be allowed to opt their children out of it.

It is nothing against those who are transgender or are same sex. They are just regular people and have the right to do as they wish. But, I think when this starts to be thrust on others who cannot understand it yet, such as the book reading in kindergarten, or at the detriment to others, such as transgender athletes dominating women's sports and being allowed to compete, or so on that it has gone too far.

Thus, I do not agree with adoption in those scenarios.

That is my opinion regarding it whether you like it or not.

First of all, that link has nothing to do with how well a same sex couple can raise children. Trans and gender issues are weird at the moment, because we, as a society haven’t found a way to explain it to kids in a nuanced way. I mean, this topic became mainstream very recently so it’ll take a while to figure out.
Secondly, the truth is that normalizing LGBTQ will help kids understand the concept more without even having them question it. If they grow up around same sex couples, they will just assume that’s part of reality, and it is.
By making it this sensitive topic, you’re making them bigots (or will struggle to understand the concept), or ashamed to come out if they happen to be gay.

 

[Corrik]

First of all, that link has nothing to do with how well a same sex couple can raise children. Trans and gender issues are weird at the moment, because we, as a society haven’t found a way to explain it to kids in a nuanced way. I mean, this topic became mainstream very recently so it’ll take a while to figure out.
Secondly, the truth is that normalizing LGBTQ will help kids understand the concept more without even having them question it. If they grow up around same sex couples, they will just assume that’s part of reality, and it is.
By making it this sensitive topic, you’re making them bigots (or will struggle to understand the concept), or ashamed to come out if they happen to be gay.

I disagree. They can learn about that lifestyle just fine when at the age they learn about sexual education. I just do not think it is proper to do that before that age.

 

[Coffe Time]

I disagree. They can learn about that lifestyle just fine when at the age they learn about sexual education. I just do not think it is proper to do that before that age.

Why do you think it’s not appropriate? What are you concerned about that may affect them?

 

[Corrik]

Why do you think it’s not appropriate? What are you concerned about that may affect them?

I do not believe they can understand it at such ages and it causes confusion.

 

[Coffe Time]

I do not believe they can understand it at such ages and it causes confusion.

Confusion in what way?

 

[Corrik]

Confusion in what way?

Trying to explain a sexual lifestyle to kids who do not understand what sex is yet?

 

[Coffe Time]

Trying to explain a sexual lifestyle to kids who do not understand what sex is yet?

But you don’t have to talk about sex. We teach children about the concept of love from a very early age, ie: “mommy loves you”, “mommy loves daddy”, etc. The simplest way for them to learn the concept is to say “a man can love a man” or “a woman can love a woman” in the context of whatever the parent feels best fits. Being gay isn’t all about sex; children don’t even learn about hetero sex until they’re around 10 years old.

 

[BraveOne]

When the reaction gifs gets posted, it means you concede my point is right.

I'll help you out here .. if there not a men's toilet within a reasonable walk from the females toilet or even in the same building. Then cry discimination from the hill tops. But your stupid hyperbole situation again has nothing to do with same sex adoption just you justifying your discimination againts gay people

 

[i_am_ben]

Trying to explain a sexual lifestyle to kids who do not understand what sex is yet?

eh, You don't really need to explain anything sexual.

what kids understand the sexual angle of their parents at a young age? They just view them as their parents.

 

[Big4reel]

If a single person can adopt a kid I don`t see why a gay couple can`t

 

[JordanN]

I'll help you out here .. if there not a men's toilet within a reasonable walk from the females toilet or even in the same building. Then cry discimination from the hill tops.

Ok, but I said same-sex are not barred from adopting.

But your stupid hyperbole situation again has nothing to do with same sex adoption just you justifying your discimination againts gay people

You said it's discrimination if adoption prefers heterosexual couples. So why is that wrong, but a man being asked to leave a woman's bathroom for his gender is not?
Do you think men have a right to access women's spaces?

 

[BraveOne]

Ok, but I said same-sex are not barred from adopting.


You said it's discrimination if adoption prefers heterosexual couples. So why is that wrong, but a man being asked to leave a woman's bathroom for his gender is not?
Do you think men have a right to access women's spaces?

You said you want to discriminate against same sex couples adopting .. that's what you said . You would have a system of preference that would put them at a disadvantage.. that is discrimination.

Again this is not about toilets is about same sex adoption so stop trying to detail and pivot from the topic at hand because you want to go into women's toilets

 

[JordanN]

You said you want to discriminate against same sex couples adopting .. that's what you said . You would have a system of preference that would put them at a disadvantage.. that is discrimination.

Again this is not about toilets is about same sex adoption so stop trying to detail and pivot from the topic at hand because you want to go into women's toilets

Both deal with placing limitations on sex for their own reasons but only one is publicly acceptable to you.

 

[BraveOne]

Both deal with placing limitations on sex for their own reasons but only one is publicly acceptable to you.

No they don't one is about child upbringing and the other is about a perverts dream

 

[JordanN]

No they don't one is about child upbringing and the other is about a perverts dream

So all men are perverts? And perversion cannot exist in child upbringing if we're going by that logic?
That would mean no male-male adoption.

 

[Jon Neu]

Lesibisn and gay people have been proven to love and raise children just as normal as hedrosexual couples.

That's not entirely true. There are lesbian and gay couples who inflict a level of brainwashing upon their children that lefts them severely damaged as human beings. They toy with their sexuality from a very early age, I'm sure you have heard of those little kids who "want" to cut their penis and transition and stuff like that.

There are some creepy videos of little boys dressed basically as top models being harrased in public while their "parents" look so happy. All in the name of being LGTB and open about your sexuality.

40% of trans people attempt suicide. Trying to brainwash your child into that, it's just pure children abuse.

 

[BraveOne]

So all men are perverts? And perversion cannot exist in child upbringing if we're going by that logic?

All men don't want to walk into women's toilets that's your own little sick narrative you want to do.

Again this is not about women's toilets but you seem to want to make it so . So be my guest I'm not entertaining your perverted fantasy on using a women's toilets even though the men's is just across the hall. If you want to use the public toilets that little girls use as a grown ass man go do it.

 

[JordanN]

All men don't want to walk into women's toilets that's your own little sick narrative you want to do.

Again this is not about women's toilets but you seem to want to make it so . So be my guest I'm not entertaining your perverted fantasy on using a women's toilets even though the men's is just across the hall. If you want to use the public toilets that little girls use as a grown ass man go do it.

So does this mean you view men entering a women's bathroom a right? Any complaints or forceful ejections by women would be considered discrimination?

 

[BraveOne]

So does this mean you view men entering a women's bathroom a right? Any complaints or forceful ejections by women would be considered discrimination?

Answer your own perverted question. When you want to talk about your discimination againts same sex couples be my guest.

 

[5secondrulesucks]

i imagine braveone is like 5'2 but is someone who always wears shorts and a black t shirt with one of those weight belts who hangs out in front of his apartment and tries to be cool with the high school kids and always has his arm resting on something

 

[luigimario]

When the reaction gifs gets posted, it means you concede my point is right.

I know this is pointless but fuck it, I'll bite.

JordanN: Prioritising heterocouples over homocouples for adoption is not discrimination/prejudice.

Using your logic, prioritising white couples, over black couples for adoption is also not discrimination? Prioritising white people over black people when it comes to government services is not discrimination?

Well this actually explains alot about you and your positions......

 

[Forthefuture]

i imagine braveone is like 5'2 but is someone who always wears shorts and a black t shirt with one of those weight belts who hangs out in front of his apartment and tries to be cool with the high school kids and always has his arm resting on something

Really creepy dude.

 

[5secondrulesucks]

Really creepy dude.

well why you telling me about it

 

[dropkick!]

Just dropping this one here... maybe relevant to the topic or maybe not...

 

[5secondrulesucks]

so i got flagged for a personal attack but what if the personal attack is super funny?

i mean what i said about braveone was pretty good

 

[JordanN]

I know this is pointless but fuck it, I'll bite.

JordanN: Prioritising heterocouples over homocouples for adoption is not discrimination/prejudice.

Using your logic, prioritising white couples, over black couples for adoption is also not discrimination? Prioritising white people over black people when it comes to government services is not discrimination?

Well this actually explains alot about you and your positions......

Are you against affirmative action?

 

[BraveOne]

Are you against affirmative action?

Don't pivot .. affrimative action and a same sex couple have nothing in common. Stop using strawman arguments around racial politics. it's not going to work in this thread.

Do you have any recent study that shows same sex couples will not be effective parents ?

 

[Blood Borne]

If the adoption agency is private, then they should be free to discriminate, even though I personally think it's stupid to discrimate. However, if the adoption agency is government funded, then they shouldn't be allowed to discriminate.

 

[JordanN]

Don't pivot .. affrimative action and a same sex couple have nothing in common.

No, I want to hear the answer to this first. LuigiMario brought up an interesting point.

Prioritising white people over black people when it comes to government services is not discrimination?

So affirmative action has to be discrimination then since it prioritizes race, no? Does he oppose this?

 

[Forthefuture]

well why you telling me about it

Cuz its creepy and you might wanna re-adjust?

 

[Greedings]

This seems pretty fucking stupid. While it's clear that all things being equal a mother and father is better than 2 mothers or 2 fathers, having SOMETHING is 1000x better than having nothing.

This isn't even based on logic, there aren't millions of straight couples desperate to adopt, don't make it harder for kids to get into a family.

 

[BraveOne]

No, I want to hear the answer to this first. LuigiMario brought up an interesting point.


So affirmative action has to be discrimination then since it prioritizes race, no? Does he oppose this?

Then make the point you want to make. You can easily assume both outcomes

 

[cyclone88]

I know this is pointless but fuck it, I'll bite.

JordanN: Prioritising heterocouples over homocouples for adoption is not discrimination/prejudice.

Using your logic, prioritising white couples, over black couples for adoption is also not discrimination? Prioritising white people over black people when it comes to government services is not discrimination?

Wouldn't he support that though? Prioritize a child's race to the same as those of the adopters. It helps his homogenous argument that's been popping up half the threads here.