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Rescuing next-gen gaming noobs from themselves

Gary Whitta

Member
Nov 21, 2005
19,403
0
0
San Francisco, CA
This happened to me over Xmas... I suspect it has happened to other GAFers too.

My gf's nephew got an Xbox 360 Premium for Christmas. They have a wall-mounted plasma HDTV so I figure they're all set. I even offer to help them set it up, but the nephew's older brother says don't worry, he's got it covered, he claims to know his shit.

Anyway, the gf and I head back over there the next day to play Scene It 360 with the family (it's great fun, btw) and the picture quality looks like ASS. It's a pretty decent TV so that's not the issue. I convince the family to let me poke around behind their TV, and what do you know... yup, composite input.

Two minutes later, the component cables are plugged in, HD switch flipped and 360 set to 720p output and suddenly everyone in the room is going HOLY SHIT LOOK AT THAT THAT'S AMAZING IT'S SO CLEAR. The previous day they'd been wondering why they were having trouble reading the smaller text on Scene It and now everything is suddenly super crystal clear. Even though they owned an HDTV I don't think they'd ever seen much (if any) HD content on it so seeing the crystal clarity of 360 graphics as they're meant to be seen was a bit of a revelation.

So all's well that ends well in this case, but it did make me wonder about just how many noobs out there have their consoles/HDTVs set up all wrong without even knowing it. It's easy as a geek to take for granted knowing the difference beween composite and component and how important that is, and not appreciate how many people don't have a clue about this stuff. It was a wake-up call for me, I'm sure it's at least part of what is holding the HD generation back, and it made me want to fly around the country fixing people's setups for them.
 

stuminus3

Member
Nov 29, 2006
13,598
8
1,345
Ontario
I am the only person I know that has any clue about HDTVs, yet I have probably the cheapest, nastiest set ever made, compared to friends and family who have all the top stuff but no idea how to use it. :(

I was just recently visiting some relatives who have a brand new top-of-the-line 1080p set dwarfing everything else in their living room. It's a thing of real beauty. "Picture's not as good as I thought it would be... sometimes it looks even worse!" they say, as their favourite shows beam to their shiny new TV in SD through a crusty old RF cable...

It makes me sad. What a waste.
 

Link316

Banned
Jun 8, 2004
2,844
0
0
my sis got a Bravia, she has HD channels and I even added them to the channel lineup for her, but she still watches the SD versions and says she doesn't see a huge difference
 

oneHeero

Member
Nov 1, 2007
5,536
0
1,185
San Antonio, Tx
My gf's dad did that with his Ps3.

Had to old composite cables hooked up, finally got component cables and hooked those up but didnt change the settings. I went over and saw it, changed it and he was like "wtf that shit is awesome now" he bought me a 6pk and called me daddy.
 

Azelover

Titanic was called the Ship of Dreams, and it was. It really was.
Dec 3, 2004
4,191
1,763
1,755
Let them in their ignorance, they're meant to not get it. Hopefully eventually more people will refrain from buying those TVs now, which is the right decision anyway.
 

fushi

Member
Feb 23, 2005
1,851
3
1,460
Estonia
The only way to save them is to completely remove the composite, S-Video and RF inputs from HD sets.
 

LJ11

Member
Jan 2, 2005
22,306
1
0
NYC
I could understand not flipping the HD switch, but why didn't he match the colors of the cables to the colors of the input? Didn't he realize that he had extra wires just dangling?

Stuminus, you can actually receive HD signals over an RF cable. My HDTV gets HD signals with this shitty old antenna on the roof of my house.
 

Christine

Member
Apr 2, 2007
9,098
0
1,040
Among people I know, even when they do know better, half the time they don't care. I can't even get my brother to stop watching 4:3 TV in 16:9. One button, I tell him. One fucking button. I guess that is too much work for him.
 

trupclow

Member
Dec 28, 2006
222
0
0
Missouri
Link316 said:
my sis got a Bravia, she has HD channels and I even added them to the channel lineup for her, but she still watches the SD versions and says she doesn't see a huge difference

Your sister must need corrective lenses. The difference between HD and SD, especially on something top of the line like a bravia is night and day. Even my grandparents were wowing at HD, and they are senile.
 

Livin_Lovin

Member
Aug 2, 2007
1,766
0
0
My friend has a 60 inch Sony HDTV (Rear-Projection SXRD) and he got a 360 for Christmas. He used component input and everything, but when I came over it just wasn't the jump we all thought it was going to be.

Then, I flipped the HD switch.
 

Valkyr Junkie

Member
Mar 29, 2007
12,481
0
0
That's why Sony not including an HDMI cable is probably the biggest blunder they've made this gen. HDMI is a 2-way connection and when the PS3 knows one of those cables is plugged in it automatically sets supported resolutions. Sony will include a BD movie to give you the "total HD experience out of the box," but won't include cables any better than what the NES with.
 

Eteric Rice

Member
Jan 13, 2007
16,608
160
1,205
You have to realize that we're at a point where tech generation is taking over, and the older generation really don't completely understand it all.

But, then again, the fact that HDMI isn't bundled with these TVs is fucking stupid.
 

Eteric Rice

Member
Jan 13, 2007
16,608
160
1,205
Sho Nuff said:
I have heard stories of JAPANESE DEVELOPERS who were 'accidentally' still working on composite.

We're doomed.

I remember reading that Sakaguchi (Final Fantasy, Blue Dragon, LO) uses an old tube TV. :D
 

Atomspike

Member
Aug 28, 2007
691
0
0
Frickin ignorant people watching standard definition on expensive HDTVs! it's like having a Ferrari and always driving in second gear .




.
 

Diablohead

Member
Jun 4, 2006
43,511
0
0
Most stores I go into advertise hd ready/1080p htdv stuff but i've never once heard any member of staff explain what HD is over the last 2 years.

My father wants a HDTV and i've tried to explain to him that if he does buy one at least let me look at it, but he just says "it's ok I know" :/

To explain to my mother I just basicly said that standard tv is this size, and HD is bigger, using the SD inputs would resize the standard size image to fill the space making things look blurry. Seems to work.
 

CrushDance

Banned
Sep 9, 2006
15,027
0
0
The manufacturers are to blame though. Nintendo and Sony need to get a clue, give people the absolute best cables for your system(Actually give them all the cables). Makes it easier for your customer to just simply plug and go, instead of waiting a week for HDMI cables to come in from Monoprice :mad:

Sony gives us weak ass composite with a $399 machine.

Nintendo pinches more pennies with a $300 machine.
 

Evander

"industry expert"
CrushDance said:
The manufacturers are to blame though. Nintendo and Sony need to get a clue, give people the absolute best cables for your system(Actually give them all the cables). Makes it easier for your customer to just simply plug and go, instead of waiting a week for HDMI cables to come in from Monoprice :mad:

Sony gives us weak ass composite with a $399 machine.

Nintendo pinches more pennies with a $300 machine.

$300? Has it gone up in price?



And the reson that systems come with composite cables is that people with HDTVs still CAN use composite, but people with SDTVs have zero use for componant.
 

CrushDance

Banned
Sep 9, 2006
15,027
0
0
Evander said:
$300? Has it gone up in price?



And the reson that systems come with composite cables is that people with HDTVs still CAN use composite, but people with SDTVs have zero use for componant.
And how hard would it be to give people both cables? Both Sony and Nintendo fail hard in that regard. Most TV's have component so there's really no excuse.

And yes it's $300 here in Canada. Well I got mine anyway for $317 after taxes.
 

FFChris

Member
Dec 7, 2006
5,207
1
0
Yep, this seems to happen a lot really.

My friend got a small HDTV for christmas last year and although he had his 360 plugged it in correctly he hadn't changed the resolution. It's a shame though, I bet loads of people are playing on HD screen in SD modes.
 

Kaako

Felium Defensor
May 20, 2007
25,622
0
0
Yes
apod.nasa.gov
Evander said:
If you ask me, this is just proof that the market simply isn't ready for all of this high def stuff coming out.
Or that the mainstream market are a bunch of retards.
Two of my friends did the same exact thing. I still make fun of them to this day for it.
 

Evander

"industry expert"
CrushDance said:
And how hard would it be to give people both cables? Both Sony and Nintendo fail hard in that regard. Most TV's have component so there's really no excuse.

Most brand new TVs, yes, but most people don't buy a new TV all the time.

And, while I agree that Sony has no excuse, since they are billing the machine based on it's HD capabilities, the Wii is not designed to be an HD machine, the Wii is not designed to be the epitome of HD gaming experiences, so packaging it with the one cable that almost everyone can use makes selse.



I currently use S-video for my Wii and VGA for my 360. Should those both have been bundled as well? Where do we draw the line on cable bundling?
 

Evander

"industry expert"
Kaako said:
Or that the mainstream market are a bunch of retards.
Two of my friends did the same exact thing. I still make fun of them to this day for it.

Never assume consumer incompetance.

People aren't retards, the industry just hasn't made the whole HD thing simple enough for the general consumer to understand. Not everyone has home entertainment as their area of personal expertise.
 

Sho_Nuff82

Member
Jan 2, 2007
39,630
1
0
I've posted about it a few times already, but my little brother got a 40GB PS3 (Note: from his ex of all people) and a 1080p HDTV for Christmas (Note: It's clear my parents don't love me), and was absolutely clueless on how to get his TV setup for

- HD gaming
- HD cable
- PC viewing
- Surround Sound

Luckily he had me around to explain the difference between 480p, 720p, and 1080p, the different cables (optical, HDMI, VGA, component), and where to buy them.

It's really f'n sad. My cousin has a pretty decent Samsung CRT set and had his Wii/360 Core hooked up to Composite the entire time, he just got a PS3 for Christmas as well and I'm sure he's still not using HD cables.
 

arhra

Member
Nov 4, 2004
2,613
71
1,465
UK
Sho Nuff said:
I have heard stories of JAPANESE DEVELOPERS who were 'accidentally' still working on composite.

We're doomed.
Well, at least that would prevent Dead Rising microtext syndrome, so maybe it's not all bad.
 

CrushDance

Banned
Sep 9, 2006
15,027
0
0
Evander said:
Most brand new TVs, yes, but most people don't buy a new TV all the time.

And, while I agree that Sony has no excuse, since they are billing the machine based on it's HD capabilities, the Wii is not designed to be an HD machine, the Wii is not designed to be the epitome of HD gaming experiences, so packaging it with the one cable that almost everyone can use makes selse.



I currently use S-video for my Wii and VGA for my 360. Should those both have been bundled as well? Where do we draw the line on cable bundling?
Composite, Component.

See? Simple. Either way you're guaranteed to have your customers satisfied. You don't need HDMI as Component is just as good. When I got my PS3 I was dumbfounded at the composite, the Wii like you said wasn't a "shock" but offering both cables in the box would be great for us consumers.

Microsoft does it.

My Wii isn't even connected as I'm trying to get component cables first before brawl :(
 

Evander

"industry expert"
CrushDance said:
Composite, Component.

See? Simple. Either way you're guaranteed to have your customers satisfied. You don't need HDMI as Component is just as good. When I got my PS3 I was dumbfounded at the composite, the Wii like you said wasn't a "shock" but offering both cables in the box would be great for us consumers.

Microsoft does it.

My Wii isn't even connected as I'm trying to get component cables first before brawl :(

What I'm saying is that it is a waste, overall, for nintendo to bundle componant cables since their system doesn't even really take advantage of them.

And I would STILL have to have bought a seperate s-video cable, so that does nothing for me.

I also didn't benefit from MSort's cable bundle, since I I had to buy VGA.
 

Sho_Nuff82

Member
Jan 2, 2007
39,630
1
0
dr3upmushroom said:
Just trying to explain the difference in the cables confuses people...

The manufacturers are to blame really, for not having a standard or shipping cables with the TVs. It doesn't help that the VG manufacturers and DVD manufacturers aren't shipping their boxes with them either.

Everyone's trying to make that extra penny and it sets the entire industry back 5 to 10 years.
 

Gary Whitta

Member
Nov 21, 2005
19,403
0
0
San Francisco, CA
I do think Sony in particular hurt themselves by not including HD cables in the PS3 box. It's one thing for HD-savvy people to have to go out and get the extra cables, but the real problem is the huge portion of the mainstream market who have no idea that those extra cables are even necessary for HD, will use the composites for the lifespan of the system and wonder what all this HD fuss is about because it doesn't look that much better.

*weeps*
 

tanod

when is my burrito
Dec 15, 2006
11,704
1
1,230
Iowa
This reminds me. My friend got a 360 a couple months ago and I should double check his connections when I'm over there.
 

Firewire

Banned
Apr 14, 2007
13,013
0
0
I blame sales people. I've seen it so many times were sales people tell customers "you don't need anything else except this HDTV, and you'll have everything in HD" so these people spend a couple grand on the T.V. go home set it up like their old T.V's and think they are getting HD.

Sometimes people are like "why doesn't it look like it did in the store" and then they tend to blame the cable/satellite provider. Stores are the ones screwing HD up, with uneducated sales staff.

And man, when someone spends a couple of grand on a HDTV is it so hard for the store to explain how to set it up properly & inform them about HDTV sources?
 

65536

Banned
Jun 22, 2006
2,791
0
0
Honestly, this isn't surprising at all. Everyone involved is doing it wrong.

The console manufacturers need to make things more obvious. For a start, they need to be including at least component leads (the cable MS bundles is a great solution) and preferably HDMI with the PS3/360.

The first thing that happens when you turn on the console should be a display setup check. You shouldn't be able to skip it, and it should be asking things like whether or not you're using an HDTV, making sure that you have the correct cables hooked up, and then getting the resolution set properly.


HDTV manufacturers do a terrible job explaining how to set them up properly. The menu systems are overcomplicated and aren't explained well, the manuals are useless - probably because they don't expect anyone to read them these days.

It wouldn't take too much thought/effort to make HDTVs much easier to understand, but no-one seems to be working on it.
 

Evander

"industry expert"
Firewire said:
I blame sales people.

You're wrong.

It's the industry that is to blame, for not educating consumers as to what they are offering. It is also the job of the industry to make sure that salespeople know too (either through incentivized direct training, or through encouragement of retail chains to train properly.)

You can't put the full responsibility for acceptance fo an industry on a 16 year old who is getting paid minimum wage. The flaw with HD, really and truely, is that it is being released without the proper level of demand already existing, and the new demand for it that is being encouraged is being so done without properly educating people as to what it is that they are being made to want. People buy HD for status just as much as for function.
 

purvispisgah

Member
May 10, 2007
566
233
1,300
Evander said:
poor choice of wording on my end.

you are correct, but most SDTVs that people own still don't have componant input unless maybe they just bought them in the past year or so.

Not really. I've got a 32" JVC in the bedroom that my mother bought probably 8-10 years ago and it has a component input. 20 year old TVs don't have component, but a lot of SDTVs manufactured in the last decade have them. None of this will stop people from being retarded in terms of HD unfortunately.
 
Jan 4, 2006
10,766
0
1,050
40
Netherlands
purvispisgah said:
Not really. I've got a 32" JVC in the bedroom that my mother bought probably 8-10 years ago and it has a component input. 20 year old TVs don't have component, but a lot of SDTVs manufactured in the last decade have them. None of this will stop people from being retarded in terms of HD unfortunately.

I can tell you are from the US.;)


Component only became mainstream over here, when HD ready screens became cheap.
 

urk

butthole fishhooking yes
May 16, 2005
11,995
0
1,250
East of Sea-Town
www.bungie.net
The lack of standardization is mind-boggling for most consumers. Buying a television is becoming almost as complex as buying a car (and in many cases, nearly as expensive).

There are four major screen technologies, three major HD resolutions, half a dozen input standards (often a mix and match of a few on each set), and dozens of brands with their own technology buzzwords getting vomited out.

People who just decide they want an HD set and don't want to put in hours of research are going to be easily confused by all the options.
 

Evander

"industry expert"
purvispisgah said:
Not really. I've got a 32" JVC in the bedroom that my mother bought probably 8-10 years ago and it has a component input. 20 year old TVs don't have component, but a lot of SDTVs manufactured in the last decade have them. None of this will stop people from being retarded in terms of HD unfortunately.

your TV is NOT indicative of every tv out there.

I have 4 or 5 SDTVs in my house, and NONE of them have Component inputs.

Other than the three flatscreens currently in the house, the only other TV we had with component inputs was a CRT HDTV (I think some people, not you necessarily, get confused and think that all CRTs are SDTVs.)



The fact of the matter is, Component is not yet the norm out there.
 

IoCaster

Member
Mar 4, 2007
1,754
40
1,295
USA
Evander said:
If you ask me, this is just proof that the market simply isn't ready for all of this high def stuff coming out.

I think it's more related to the fact that there are too many different standards and connections for all of this shit. Maybe it's just a natural part of the transition from SD-->Hd, but it's needlessly complicated. The suggestion that Sony should have included an HDMI cable is valid. I'd say that any HDTV and any HD content delivery electronics box should include HDMI cables by default. They need to also include a big poster style, color coded, quick setup instruction sheet. Most people can't be bothered with the users manual that comes with their equipment so it's best to give them an easy, handy, large and colorful guide to get them started.
 

Afrikan

Member
Jun 27, 2007
12,154
0
1,310
Diablohead said:
Most stores I go into advertise hd ready/1080p htdv stuff but i've never once heard any member of staff explain what HD is over the last 2 years.

My father wants a HDTV and i've tried to explain to him that if he does buy one at least let me look at it, but he just says "it's ok I know" :/

To explain to my mother I just basicly said that standard tv is this size, and HD is bigger, using the SD inputs would resize the standard size image to fill the space making things look blurry. Seems to work.

thats not bad.....

usually I kinda get into too much detail.....

i start talking about pixels and how each one becomes a certain color...and that all of them together make a picture.......... then I tell them the more pixels the more detail...

then I tell them all the stuff they have that is "coming in to" the T.V. is made for "the little regular square" T.V.s...... so when it comes to this bigger rectangle T.V. the footage get stretched out to make up for the extra space.......

thats when I start telling them about different types HD content and how to get them....... but some still look at you funny...... and say "ah huh, gotcha" .....but some do get the idea.....