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[ToastyFrog]

I did. But only in passing.

The record episodes in bulk, so they're probably behind with the new news of this.

That said, what's there's to talk about? It's a ill-conceived project having trouble. Not really much conversation fodder for a show like Retronauts.

Also, despite the system's name, it's not really retro. But yeah, our next recording session will be in December, so by that point the dust will have settled pretty definitively one way or the other. I am mulling a piece for USG, but at the moment I'm honestly not sure what to think of this project and have been too caught up in travel to really pick through all the info.

 

[Mega]

Everyone keeps saying that Mike is nice, but what does that even mean? He has the appearance of being kind but when given honest feedback from the likes of once business partners, former and potential backers, forum critics, bloggers, podcasters, the gaming community at large... he slings insults and codescencion in every direction? This is a nice person? I think this bit of pressure has revealed his real personality and I can't see myself ever backing a future project from someone like that. He's not a good leader for this nonexistent company and he sucks at marketing and PR.

It's all gone from being fairly reasonable to overly ambitious to poorly planned to incompetent to hostile and insulting and finally to outright lying with that fake prototype. I'm completely out not just on RVGS but this guy's projects UNLESS a strong Kevtris type is 100% in charge and takes lead on whatever's next from this incompetent team and steers it in the right direction.

For the record, I wanted a $200 price point but would have pulled the trigger at $300 if this thing had a REAL working prototype and kicked ass.

 

[NoFaceNico]

The funny thing is, now we know why they budgeted $100k for prototype development, most of it is to cover the costs of getting patents. It can cost up to $20k for a single patent. Which is not described at all in their pitch or IGG page

He wants to patent cartridge connectors or some shit, what does he think? Is this going to become the new USB or something?

Another amusing thing is that they posted his video and asked people to post questions, but they've banned so many people from their facebook page they only have like 5 comments.



Also, if anyone needs further proof of the RVGS commitment to quality control and catching mistakes to create a bug-free experience-

John Carlsen will be providing you all with some updates beginning here which he addresses some of the questions. If you have a question for John, drop it in the comments below.

RETRO VGS is a modern day cartridge based video game system that needs your support to bring to life.

 

[mosaic]

The post from the Retronauts guy actually explains why the last couple Retro magazines have been so meh. I wonder if Mike is doing like 80-90% of it himself now. As someone that used to write for mass produced magazines, I know how weak an issue can end up when one guy basically does the whole thing.

At this point, they have to know the campaign won't succeed. All of the fanboy outlets weighed in negatively and the mass media won't touch it if the campaign already appears faltering. It's a horrible feeling to fail, but they could at least move on and have one hell of a story for a future issue of Retro Magazine. I bet Chris Kohler would enjoy a crack at writing that... Hehe.

 

[atomic moth]

This project will be on one of those "Top 10 Worst..." lists on youtube for the next decade

 

[gundalf]

Top Rule for Startups:
If the founder is the "Ideas Guy" - the company is doomed!

Top Rule for Venture Capitalist:
If in the Elevator Pitch the founder turns out to be the "Ideas Guy" - bail out!

This rule applies to other fields and this case is not much different.
I am sure that Mike has no ill intentions but damn, he has no competence to be involved with this project at all.

 

[xDUMPWEEDx]

The funny thing is, now we know why they budgeted $100k for prototype development, most of it is to cover the costs of getting patents. It can cost up to $20k for a single patent. Which is not described at all in their pitch or IGG page

Bingo. Kevtris called them out for this, to which they replied Kevtris is a liar.

It is shocking at just how little transparency this whole project has had, when Mike has been shouting this whole time about how transparent they have been.

The more layers that get peeled back on the RETRO VGS, the more this entire project is starting to look like an elaborate scam.

 

[Khaz]

I could make a cheap PC that has more power than this thing for less than $300.

I mean, I like the idea as a novelty but price accordingly.

Eh, I'm pretty sure a random Asus EEE Box is more powerful than what they plan to do. And it's x86 meaning everything runs on it.

 

[Chittagong]

Top Rule for Startups:
If the founder is the "Ideas Guy" - the company is doomed!

Top Rule for Venture Capitalist:
If in the Elevator Pitch the founder turns out to be the "Ideas Guy" - bail out!

This rule applies to other fields and this case is not much different.
I am sure that Mike has no ill intentions but damn, he has no competence to be involved with this project at all.

As a venture capitalist, couldn't agree more. Ideas are very close to worthless. Execution is king, to have the skills to take an idea, drum up support for it, build a team, and deliver it.

Retro VGS is (in my opinion) a clusterfuck based on an incredibly lazy thought process. The main bad idea is that 'people prefer physical media'. From there, a whole range of conclusions follow. 'People like Retro style games - see, Super Meat Boy, Hotline Miami and others' and 'People don't have time for bigger games - see decline of big publishers' and 'Traditional home consoles overshoot specs and cost to deliver big games, whereas people are happy with smaller indies'. Then, Retro VGS is the Homer's Dream Car addressing all these 'issues'. Except, that seemingly no research was done to see whether this particular answer is compelling to anyone. Well, I guess IndieGoGo counts as market research.

Essentially, Retro VGS is the same misguided idea Ouya had, but added with a 'physical media' cherry on top.

 

[gundalf]

Eh, I'm pretty sure a random Asus EEE Box is more powerful than what they plan to do. And it's x86 meaning everything runs on it.

You can go even cheaper: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00W8T61O0/?tag=neogaf0e-20

 

[NoFaceNico]

Essentially, Retro VGS is the same misguided idea Ouya had, but added with a 'physical media' cherry on top.

I am a critic of the OUYA and I would never buy one but I disagree that it was a misguided idea. It was a brilliant pitch for an Android box back when no one in the west was doing it. The idea holds water, but the developer support didn't and that's where they failed. If they had a few great exclusives that only worked with the OUYA and physical controls, it might have worked, even if the controller sucked.

You can go even cheaper: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00W8T61O0/?tag=neogaf0e-20

I was thinking about getting one of those but I hear they're terrible. Not a lot of functionality and they take a surprising amount of fiddling to get them to work right.

I hear this one is pretty good though for the same price:http://www.geekbuying.com/item/Tronsmart-Ara-X5-Windows-10-TV-Box-Cherry-Trail-Z8300-Quad-Core-1-8G-Gen-8-Graphics-2G-32G-2-4Ghz-5Ghz-351938.html?Currency=USD&catargetid=120190870000000467&cadevice=c&gclid=CjwKEAjwhJmwBRDGsamBu8Pp7FwSJACKD1KHRohU7pmac3ZG8m1-wIV1E6WhowBEnA8SJVpPoWMa7hoCOxTw_wcB

 

[Ninja Scooter]

As a venture capitalist, couldn't agree more. Ideas are very close to worthless. Execution is king, to have the skills to take an idea, drum up support for it, build a team, and deliver it.

Retro VGS is (in my opinion) a clusterfuck based on an incredibly lazy thought process. The main bad idea is that 'people prefer physical media'. From there, a whole range of conclusions follow. 'People like Retro style games - see, Super Meat Boy, Hotline Miami and others' and 'People don't have time for bigger games - see decline of big publishers' and 'Traditional home consoles overshoot specs and cost to deliver big games, whereas people are happy with smaller indies'. Then, Retro VGS is the Homer's Dream Car addressing all these 'issues'. Except, that seemingly no research was done to see whether this particular answer is compelling to anyone. Well, I guess IndieGoGo counts as market research.

Essentially, Retro VGS is the same misguided idea Ouya had, but added with a 'physical media' cherry on top.

On top of that they even proved themselves out of the impulse buy range that ouya had. Nobody is going to pay $300+ to take a chance that people with almost no history in this particular field are just magically going to become competent enough to successfully launch and maintain a video game platform. Niche, boutique platforms aimed at similar audiences as this, like the Analogue NT, or the Omega MVS or even the Retron 5 work because there is already established audiences of collectors and fans to target. If I buy an analogue NT and the company that makes it goes out of business shortly after, that's fine it still plays my existing library of nes games, which is the whole point. If you buy a Retro VGS and the company folds a couple of months later you are stuck with a $300 paper weight.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

We're almost back down to $63,000. They were right about weekends being slow for fundraising. It's like time is going in reverse!

 

[NeOak]

I don't recall ever seeing a crowd funding campaign lose money 3 days in a row.

http://crowdcharts.com/campaign/retro-vgs/daily

I wonder how long they will keep this going.

checked today, they lost 2.5k in the last 24 hours.

 

[driph]

The post from the Retronauts guy actually explains why the last couple Retro magazines have been so meh. I wonder if Mike is doing like 80-90% of it himself now. As someone that used to write for mass produced magazines, I know how weak an issue can end up when one guy basically does the whole thing.

At this point, they have to know the campaign won't succeed. All of the fanboy outlets weighed in negatively and the mass media won't touch it if the campaign already appears faltering. It's a horrible feeling to fail, but they could at least move on and have one hell of a story for a future issue of Retro Magazine. I bet Chris Kohler would enjoy a crack at writing that... Hehe.

RETRO Magazine had a different EIC for issues 7-9, hence the change in editorial direction.

 

[Vipershark]

Mike posted John's Facebook text wall to the IGG campaign in four separate updates but edited out the parts about him talking too much.

 

[ElectricThunder]

Hmm, that really adds up folks---clearly the work of a marketing/PR expert as stated!

They...couldn't have just made that into one update though? Really? I guess it bolsters the illusion of campaign activity so long as you don't glance at the actual numbers...

"Oh wow, so many updates, the time must be nigh!"

 

[bobawesome]

This is doing awful. Like...way worse than I ever thought possible.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Dear Retro VGS,

We've got a spare up here waiting for you.

Signed, Heaven.

Put it out of its misery.

 

[ultrazilla]

$63,935USD
raised by 191 people in 8 days
3% funded
38 days left

Goal: $1,950,000 USD goal

Almost every day I check the campaign and it seems to be losing money.

It's DOA.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

Almost every day I check the campaign and it seems to be losing money.

It's DOA.

Yeah. It was over 65,000 with 190-something donations the first time I checked yesterday. By my last post last night it had dropped to 63,400 with 186 donations.

 

[LewieP]

This project will be on one of those "Top 10 Worst..." lists on youtube for the next decade

No it won't.

It will be forgotten entirely.

 

[NoFaceNico]

Among retro gamers it will be remembered but to the gaming scene in general it will be forgotten. It has failed to make any major headlines after the campaign launched. Which also speaks volumes as to how irrelevant print magazines are these days when a print magazine is trying to make their own game console and can't get any coverage on the web.

 

[Ghost_Messiah]

It really is quite sad to see all this play out. I feel so bad for Mike because his heart was clearly in the right place and he held good intentions. I think the price, games line up and poor impression of the company's capability and reliability just killed this dead in its tracks. When they received the storm of negative feedback as they talked about their pricing plans they really should have took some time to think and maybe delayed the campaign to re-adjust their strategy. We on here along with their fans on Facebook that turned against them when they announced the PS4-level price were practically shouting for them to change their plan with us all prophesying that this would be DOA with their current plan and it was frustrating that they just didn't listen, blindly pushed on in to the darkness and then look what happened.

Basically what's going on is people are hitting their page and seeing the extortionate price across the console and games, then they're seeing there's no real proof this even exists via the lack of a working prototype and then they're seeing a launch line up of already released and mostly non-exclusive games. Correct me if I'm wrong here but I'm only seeing Tiny Knight as the one exclusive game they have? Gunlord is the closest thing they have to a killer app as I guess it's not that widely available and you have to practically re-mortgage your house to get it on the Neo Geo (much cheaper and more reasonable on the Dreamcast though) but the problem there is it's almost a killer app but ultimately insufficient to truly sell the console.

I think in retrospect they should have taken the hurricane of constructive criticism on board, delayed their campaign, reconfigured the console to get the price down to ~$150, got a working prototype out there and then maybe waited for confirmation of games they've promised in the future like Shantae, Pier Solar and possibly Shovel Knight and then launched on Kickstarter with those and maybe some other exclusive games to get people more interested and excited. No one would have had an issue with them using Kickstarter if they actually had a prototype. Also the marketing and media support is just not there with this. A major article in a niche retro focused magazine isn't going to cut it. They needed the heavyweights to get behind them which I honestly think would have happened naturally had they had an affordable, mass market price, actual proof this exists and a much stronger headline grabbing launch line up.

They've said over and over again that their games line up is the most important thing to them so if they understand that why is their launch line up so anaemic? Basically what I'm saying is that if people had trust in them that this truly is going to be a long-term and viable console produced by a company that is reputable and reliable there'd probably be thousands of backers right now. Ouya came out of nowhere and raked in millions in crowd funding because their presentation and marketing was slick and professional. Their price was super low and affordable. They initially appeared to be a trustworthy and professional company. So people felt safe and secure pledging their money. Unfortunately - and I say this as a massive supporter of the Retro VGS in the beginning - their IndieGoGo page just gives off so many red flags that this console is just never going to come to market or even be delivered to backers. And that's the problem here. People just don't feel secure risking so much money on what appears to be a mist of vapour.

They need to go away for like, an entire year and rethink this whole thing. Conceptually the idea is still sound. It's just that the execution isn't there.

 

[Ninja Scooter]

They need to go away for like, an entire year and rethink this whole thing. Conceptually the idea is still sound. It's just that the execution isn't there.

Their entire concept just needs to be taken up by someone else with better business sense and savvy.

 

[panda-zebra]

Interview (some really telling stuff):
http://retrogamingmagazine.com/2015...gs-team-unofficial-copy-from-audio-interview/
Reaction (some really funny stuff):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miech2DIWuM

 

[NoFaceNico]

I've made a video giving my thoughts on the Retro VGS and explaining why I'm so fascinated with the project.

Mike Kennedy or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Retro VGS

Enjoy!

Reaction (some really funny stuff):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=miech2DIWuM

That guy is awesome, he really has a talent for parody!

 

[emb]

I knew this thing was losing money, but yesterday was apparently really bad. Not much change in backers, but lost 2.3k.

 

[Dreamwriter]

I think in retrospect they should have taken the hurricane of constructive criticism on board, delayed their campaign, reconfigured the console to get the price down to ~$150, got a working prototype out there and then maybe waited for confirmation of games they've promised in the future like Shantae, Pier Solar and possibly Shovel Knight and then launched on Kickstarter

$150 is probably impossible, because Kevtris' theoretical console that is only a cheap FPGA with no game controller or even ports for original game controllers, he's estimating would cost $200 to $250. They *did* drop the price from $400 to $350 at the last second, but that seems to be what triggered the Kevtris alienation.

As for confirmation of games, the announced "future" games were dependent on the pledge campaign being successful to a certain amount, so they couldn't "wait" for confirmation of those before holding the campaign. And they *had* confirmation of Pier Solar, then something changed.

 

[G-Fex]

I've made a video giving my thoughts on the Retro VGS and explaining why I'm so fascinated with the project.

Mike Kennedy or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Retro VGS

Enjoy!




That guy is awesome, he really has a talent for parody!

Good job man, that's a great video. Very informative. Very entertaining!

 

[Ghost_Messiah]

Their entire concept just needs to be taken up by someone else with better business sense and savvy.

Hesitant to say this as I know the people behind the Retro VGS follow this thread but I think you're probably right and speak the truth here. They lack the power and capability to successfully execute this concept. Now the idea is out there and is popular (as the Retro VGS was in the beginning) we may see a more reputable and stronger company spark the concept to life more successfully and viably in the future. I still believe that the concept itself is fantastic. It'd be great to see it happen more successfully one day.

$150 is probably impossible, because Kevtris' theoretical console that is only a cheap FPGA with no game controller or even ports for original game controllers, he's estimating would cost $200 to $250. They *did* drop the price from $400 to $350 at the last second, but that seems to be what triggered the Kevtris alienation.

As for confirmation of games, the announced "future" games were dependent on the pledge campaign being successful to a certain amount, so they couldn't "wait" for confirmation of those before holding the campaign. And they *had* confirmation of Pier Solar, then something changed.

Hmm. Interesting. Thanks for the clarification. Appreciate it. As for the price with this new information that I was not aware of I think their mistake then may have been to initially promise somewhere in the ballpark of ~$150 in interviews/on Facebook when behind the scenes they didn't actually have the means or capability to hit that price point. The price increase backfired so spectacularly because people already thought we were getting a ~$150 priced console. They outright said they were targeting $150 to $180. I still can't believe they were surprised at the negative outcry when they effectively more than doubled the price (initially to $400 and then that last minute reduction to $350).

As for securing games I guess that makes sense. If they're having trouble however securing Pier Solar then God help them with higher end games like Shovel Knight. It looks like the reason the launch line up is so anaemic might actually be because they just couldn't convince any more developers to back their platform which is a little heart breaking. I think you're right as well - so much of their plan was contingent on a successful crowd funding campaign so now that the funding drive has stalled the Retro VGS may now be dead in the water. I mean we all pretty much knew that already but I think it's going to take a miracle at this point to save this and I don't see one coming in the near future.

Just disappointed as I (like many others) was so excited for this initially. Sad to see this morph in to a slow motion car crash.

 

[NoFaceNico]

Good job man, that's a great video. Very informative. Very entertaining!

Thanks! That's exactly what I was aiming for

 

[G-Fex]

Thanks! That's exactly what I was aiming for

I think you pretty much sumrised just about every angle of this trainwreck.

 

[OrbitalBeard]

I've made a video giving my thoughts on the Retro VGS and explaining why I'm so fascinated with the project.

Mike Kennedy or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Retro VGS

Enjoy!

Fantastic video! Great job. ANYONE who has any interest in this whole ordeal should give this a watch. Again, really great work. : )

 

[Vipershark]

So here's something I'm curious about.
John Carlsen has repeatedly noted that he worked for Sony and designed "a" PlayStation, but never talked about any kind of specifics on what PlayStation that was.

A quick look at his LinkedIn profile reveals that it was "a PlayStation platform for emerging nation markets", but never goes into anything more specific than this.

Does anyone know what that could possibly be referring to? Some kind of stripped-down PS box for emerging markets or something? Some kind of unreleased hardware?

 

[panda-zebra]

So here's something I'm curious about.
John Carlsen has repeatedly noted that he worked for Sony and designed "a" PlayStation, but never talked about any kind of specifics on what PlayStation that was.

A quick look at his LinkedIn profile reveals that it was "a PlayStation platform for emerging nation markets", but never goes into anything more specific than this.

Does anyone know what that could possibly be referring to? Some kind of stripped-down PS box for emerging markets or something? Some kind of unreleased hardware?

A recent post on AtariAge linked to a podcast where he apparently mentioned reducing it to the size of the controller. Don't fancy wading through all that right now, but it's in there somewhere.

 

[Sorcerer]

A recent post on AtariAge linked to a podcast where he apparently mentioned reducing it to the size of the controller. Don't fancy wading through all that right now, but it's in there somewhere.

It sounds like the PSone. Its about the size of the controller, give or take an inch or two on both sides.

 

[chrislowe]

Just noticed that they have put in hardware specs on the igg-page now.
Seems like the same hardware found in a android-on-a-stick for like $60-70, minus the fpga.


* CPU: “Quadrunner” 4-core 1.6 GHz 32-bit ARM Cortex-A9 (16,000 DMIPS) processor plus embedded high-performance graphics processing unit (GPU) with:

* 3-D (shader, tiler, parallel vertex and pixel processing, and more, supporting OpenGL ES 1.1 and 2.0, OpenVG 1.1, etc.),

* 2-D (blitter with high-performance stretch and shrink plus one-pass blending, scaling, and rotation, anti-aliased line drawing, etc.), and

* Image enhancement (scaling, rotation, mirroring, etc.)

RAM: 1 GiB (2^30 bytes) 32-bit DDR3-800

* Field-programmable gate array (FPGA)

* Fast, flexible, durable cartridge interface

* Convection cooled: no noisy fan to wear out

 

[panda-zebra]

Just noticed that they have put in hardware specs on the igg-page now.
Seems like the same hardware found in a android-on-a-stick for like $60-70, minus the fpga.

Wut?

The FPGA at the $1.95m target is a token gesture, incapable of doing any system simulation... so this thing is approx. the same power as Ouya? That can't be right.

 

[xDUMPWEEDx]

 

[garbagejuicer]

I've made a video giving my thoughts on the Retro VGS and explaining why I'm so fascinated with the project.

Mike Kennedy or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Retro VGS

Enjoy!

great video, very informative.

 

[Kabuki Quantum Lover]

This is getting rougher to look at by the day.

 

[Ziffles]

I'd say more along the lines of:

 

[Leynos]

I've made a video giving my thoughts on the Retro VGS and explaining why I'm so fascinated with the project.

Mike Kennedy or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Retro VGS

Enjoy!

You ask who the market would be for a modern cartridge-based console, and I squeaked out a feeble "Me..." (I've got laryngitis, and a really sore throat.) I would have loved the original vision for the Retro VGS, and had they come out with a Kickstarter/Indiegogo for the original price of ~$150-$180, and they had an actual, you know, prototype, I would have put money down.

But now how it stands today.

 

[Marty Chinn]

I'd say more along the lines of:

Holy shit. Is that from this year's NBA Live?

 

[pots and pans]

In addition to the interview with Mike Kennedy that he did for his YouTube channel, Gamester81 spent about 30 minutes discussing the Retro VGS on his All Gen Gamers podcast a few days ago.

http://ia801501.us.archive.org/31/items/AGGEpisode196/AllGenGamersPodcastEpisode196.mp3

The Retro VGS stuff starts around the 1:28:35 mark. It's nothing new, just the same stuff we have been hearing for months. He even uses some Mike Kennedy buzzwords/catchphrases like "transparent", "that costs money", and "great team behind this". He never tells us to "do the math" though, unfortunately. Of course, he also blames the campaign failure on "haters" and goes down that tired path. He does mention that he's part of a team developing games for it, but claims he has no financial stake in the project. Not sure how that makes sense.

I would strongly advise against listening to the entire podcast. When these guys actually put out an episode these days, it's basically just a means for Gamester81 and, to a lesser extent, some guy named Jason to promote their personal projects. It's basically a 2+ hour ad for the Portland Gaming Expo (they have a panel), their own recent retro gaming convention, Gamester's CollectorVision games (for the Retro VGS and otherwise), and the other dude's music. It's a shame, because these guys used to actually be worth listening to. Anyway, ranting aside I thought I would post the link here in case anyone is still interested in listening to Retro VGS "news" or whatever.

 

[xDUMPWEEDx]

Thank you for the link. You are right, All Gen Gamers has dropped off the edge in the last year or so. They had a good run, though.

As for the RETRO VGS, I don't think there is anything else to be said about it. It was a pathetic clusterfuck of lies that will never release. Mike burned every bridge he could with the niche community he needed. That's really about it.

Game Over.

 

[Risible]

Yeah, it's fascinating how many bridges they are burning with this campaign, they are really all-in on this. The cognitive dissonance on display from the creators is so weird. They are destroying credibility with the very people they need to succeed.

What's really interesting is how the bullshit quotient keeps rising as they get more desperate. So now, not only are the killing this project but any future projects they may undertake due to the distrust they are engendering in the very userbase they are try to court.

It's really been fascinating to watch from an academic viewpoint.

 

[Sorcerer]

In a way its good that this failed so fast.

Even if they got their money, could they be trusted to deliver what they promised, if anything at all?
I mean because there was no prototype, they seemed to just be making things ups as they went along.

Who knows what they would have changed and added/subtracted as time went on?

Its too easy to make promises and change things when there is no actual product.

At the very least its a lesson to others on how not to market and run campaigns and a warning to future backers about what you should and should not support.

 

[Dreamwriter]

New post on Facebook:

Hey Everyone! It’s clear, in its current state the RETRO VGS Indiegogo campaign is dead in the water and thusly will be shut down early. Once the Indiegogo team explains to us how we can do this, the plug will be pulled and all of you who have contributed will receive a refund post haste. Or you can go in and request a refund from Indiegogo right now.
The good news is we aren’t giving up and have made some adjustments to our hardware team, which includes the involvement of other hardware gurus who were part of our venture in the very beginning. We will also be lowering the price while maintaining most of the cool features you all want.
We will be back in the near future with a prototype RETRO VGS system, front-and-center playing our games on our cartridges and with our USB controller. Sit tight, be patient and RETRO VGS will return.
Thanks again for your support, patience and understanding while we regroup and prepare for the relaunch of a crowdfunding campaign on Kickstarter.